User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 1:45:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Once a rifle, always a rifle
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 1:48:47 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once a rifle, always a rifle I take that as a no then.. So even tho it's not registered or sold as either makes no diff? Once it's had a stock it's a rifle? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 1:54:40 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I take that as a no then.. So even tho it's not registered or sold as either makes no diff? Once it's had a stock it's a rifle? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Once a rifle, always a rifle I take that as a no then.. So even tho it's not registered or sold as either makes no diff? Once it's had a stock it's a rifle? Yup. However, i believe that pistols can be converted to rifles, and back |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:05:45 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. However, i believe that pistols can be converted to rifles, and back Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once a rifle, always a rifle I take that as a no then.. So even tho it's not registered or sold as either makes no diff? Once it's had a stock it's a rifle? Yup. However, i believe that pistols can be converted to rifles, and back What's the difference? If I have a stripped lower and I build a pistol. Then add a stock and a 16" barrel.. I can go back to a pistol? But if built as rifle first it can't go to pistol and back? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:07:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference? If I have a stripped lower and I build a pistol. Then add a stock and a 16" barrel.. I can go back to a pistol? But if built as rifle first it can't go to pistol and back? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once a rifle, always a rifle I take that as a no then.. So even tho it's not registered or sold as either makes no diff? Once it's had a stock it's a rifle? Yup. However, i believe that pistols can be converted to rifles, and back What's the difference? If I have a stripped lower and I build a pistol. Then add a stock and a 16" barrel.. I can go back to a pistol? But if built as rifle first it can't go to pistol and back? Well, there really is no difference, but the atf doesn't see it that way |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:15:56 AM EDT
[#6]
I mean, it can be a pistol with a 16" barrel.. If I put the stock on last, I basically built a pistol, then a rifle. So I could go back to pistol now if I wanted?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:16:30 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference? If I have a stripped lower and I build a pistol. Then add a stock and a 16" barrel.. I can go back to a pistol? But if built as rifle first it can't go to pistol and back? I mean, it can be a pistol with a 16" barrel.. If I put the stock on last, I basically built a pistol, then a rifle. So I could go back to pistol now if I wanted? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once a rifle, always a rifle I take that as a no then.. So even tho it's not registered or sold as either makes no diff? Once it's had a stock it's a rifle? Yup. However, i believe that pistols can be converted to rifles, and back What's the difference? If I have a stripped lower and I build a pistol. Then add a stock and a 16" barrel.. I can go back to a pistol? But if built as rifle first it can't go to pistol and back? I mean, it can be a pistol with a 16" barrel.. If I put the stock on last, I basically built a pistol, then a rifle. So I could go back to pistol now if I wanted? The ATF doesn't see it that way once a rifle always a rifle but if you build it as a pistol first you can go back and forth, unless things have changed recently. So basically because you built it into a rifle first it's always a rifle. If you want a pistol go build another stripped lower. Nothing is registered unless you live in commie state. Quoted:
I mean, it can be a pistol with a 16" barrel.. If I put the stock on last, I basically built a pistol, then a rifle. So I could go back to pistol now if I wanted? I wouldn't since you have clearly stated on a public forum that you built it as a rifle first, but sure go ahead play the game with the ATF build an illegal SBR, spend 10 years in club fed, loose you right to own firearms, all seems worth it, and much better idea than simply buying another $40 stripped lower and having it transferred. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:19:51 AM EDT
[#8]
So I'm better off selling my lower, buying a new one, and building a pistol first. Then I can convert back and forth?
Can I keep both the uppers and stock together in bag? I won't be in trouble for intentions of making and sbr? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:21:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I'm better off selling my lower, buying a new one, and building a pistol first. Then I can convert back and forth? Can I keep both the uppers and stock together in bag? I won't be in trouble for intentions of making and sbr? As long as everything is kept together as a kit you are fine, with a legal lower. I would not be caught with the short upper and a stock alone though. I would probably just keep the lower as rifle, and build another since lowers are dirt cheaper right now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 2:24:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As long as everything is kept together as a kit you are fine, with a legal lower. I would not be caught with the short upper and a stock alone though. I would probably just keep the lower as rifle, and build another since lowers are dirt cheaper right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So I'm better off selling my lower, buying a new one, and building a pistol first. Then I can convert back and forth? Can I keep both the uppers and stock together in bag? I won't be in trouble for intentions of making and sbr? As long as everything is kept together as a kit you are fine, with a legal lower. I would not be caught with the short upper and a stock alone though. I would probably just keep the lower as rifle, and build another since lowers are dirt cheaper right now. Ya. I just looked, they have came down significantly since I got mine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 10:31:34 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So I'm better off selling my lower, buying a new one, and building a pistol first. Then I can convert back and forth? Can I keep both the uppers and stock together in bag? I won't be in trouble for intentions of making and sbr? if you can legally use the parts for legal purposes, there should be no issue. if you only have a pistol and stock, that is probably bad. if you have a pistol, stock and 16 inch upper, you are fine. if you have a pistol and another rifle plus a stock(spare for the rifle) you are fine as well. just don't get caught with no legal way to use the spare stock. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 6:38:29 PM EDT
[#12]
Here for example is a perfectly legal grouping of "aggregated parts in close proximity" to be out and about with (there could be multiples of any of them. Could have thrown in a VFG too). And of course, the lower must have begun life as a pistol.
However, without the long barrels in the mix, you have made an NFA firearm, whether the parts are actually physically assembled into an illegal config or not. Note that at home, case law says that your entire property constitutes that "close proximity". - OS |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 9:37:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here for example is a perfectly legal grouping of "aggregated parts in close proximity" to be out and about with (there could be multiples of any of them. Could have thrown in a VFG too). http://routedriver.home.comcast.net/pub/ARkit.jpg However, without the long barrels in the mix, you have made an NFA firearm, whether the parts are actually physically assembled into an illegal config or not. Note that at home, case law says that your entire property constitutes that "close proximity". - OS So you can go to the range and shoot all those? U just have to switch the upper before adding the stock? So in my case... Having built the rifle, I'm sol on being able to make it a pistol? But if I were to sell the lower and buy a new one that's never been assembled.. I could do a pistol and then. Switch back and forth? Thanks again for helping me out guys! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/17/2015 9:44:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you can go to the range and shoot all those? U just have to switch the upper before adding the stock? So in my case... Having built the rifle, I'm sol on being able to make it a pistol? But if I were to sell the lower and buy a new one that's never been assembled.. I could do a pistol and then. Switch back and forth? Thanks again for helping me out guys! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here for example is a perfectly legal grouping of "aggregated parts in close proximity" to be out and about with (there could be multiples of any of them. Could have thrown in a VFG too). http://routedriver.home.comcast.net/pub/ARkit.jpg However, without the long barrels in the mix, you have made an NFA firearm, whether the parts are actually physically assembled into an illegal config or not. Note that at home, case law says that your entire property constitutes that "close proximity". - OS So you can go to the range and shoot all those? U just have to switch the upper before adding the stock? So in my case... Having built the rifle, I'm sol on being able to make it a pistol? But if I were to sell the lower and buy a new one that's never been assembled.. I could do a pistol and then. Switch back and forth? Thanks again for helping me out guys! Sure, can mix and match at will, EXCEPT of course using the short barrel with the stock at the same time. The key to the legality of the pictured config is that the lower was first built as a pistol, so it can go back and forth in configuration. Had it been first built as a rifle, that grouping of parts, if that's all you had, would be illegal. Yeah, I know, who could know, right? And in the case of starting with a new lower, almost certainly correct, but that's the law (or rather the SCOTUS interpretation of it). The rock sure proof, if ever investigated, is if the lower had started off as a rifle from a manufacturer, which is easily found through the company's records. - OS |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2015 2:32:35 PM EDT
[#15]
you can even buy a complete lower as long as it was never assembled as a rifle. even if it comes with a stock on it.
you just have to remove the stock first and put on an upper to be a pistol. you can even use the stock buffer tube without the actual stock portion and you are still good. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2015 3:01:20 PM EDT
[#16]
FPNI.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2015 4:12:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FPNI. If you mean the "Once a rifle, always a rifle" response, no it didn't. "First a rifle, always a rifle" does. - OS |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2015 9:52:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the insight into the legality of it all.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2015 12:11:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you can even buy a complete lower as long as it was never assembled as a rifle. even if it comes with a stock on it. you just have to remove the stock first and put on an upper to be a pistol. ... Just did that very thing. Put together a quite inexpensive PSA rifle just to stash, from a complete lower with stock and mostly complete upper. But before I did, I made it a quick pistol first. All my ARs are "pistol legal" except the only one I bought as a complete rifle. - OS |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/19/2015 10:45:33 PM EDT
[#20]
And if you lie to them, the can see it in your eyes. So DON'T DO IT!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2015 5:57:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't since you have clearly stated on a public forum that you built it as a rifle first, but sure go ahead play the game with the ATF build an illegal SBR, spend 10 years in club fed, loose you right to own firearms, all seems worth it, and much better idea than simply buying another $40 stripped lower and having it transferred. This. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/20/2015 6:31:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's the difference? If I have a stripped lower and I build a pistol. Then add a stock and a 16" barrel.. I can go back to a pistol? But if built as rifle first it can't go to pistol and back? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once a rifle, always a rifle I take that as a no then.. So even tho it's not registered or sold as either makes no diff? Once it's had a stock it's a rifle? Yup. However, i believe that pistols can be converted to rifles, and back What's the difference? If I have a stripped lower and I build a pistol. Then add a stock and a 16" barrel.. I can go back to a pistol? But if built as rifle first it can't go to pistol and back? That is correct. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/22/2015 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#23]
What came first the chicken or the egg
If the first thing you did was installed the buffer tube on that stripped virgin lower without the stock you just built a pistol lower. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/22/2015 1:47:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What came first the chicken or the egg
If the first thing you did was installed the buffer tube on that stripped virgin lower without the stock you just built a pistol lower. Incorrect. A lower with only a buffer tube (no stock) is not a pistol lower until a barreled upper is also attached. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/27/2015 9:14:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Hey guys, I'm going to throw this in here just as a FYI. I know it'/I am kinda a buzz kill sometimes, it's just a CYA thing. When we get to complacent and start slipping the line too often that's when they start closing the noose. It happened with the braces, just sayin'.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/200876_The_AR15_PISTOL_INFORMATION_THREAD____.html&page=38 |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/28/2015 2:31:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Stripped lowers are dirt cheap now. Just get a stripped lower and build it as a pistol lower.
Yg |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
