This may very well be clarified in the FAQ pages or in one of the pinned topics, but things have changed a little, if I'm not mistaken, in the last couple years.

There is NOTHING wrong with ANYONE ordering 100 lowers and classifying them as 'other' (or the appropriate check box) from what I understand because you 'may' choose to make some into rifles, some pistols, etc... at any time you choose to do so. You may not know what you will be doing with the lowers right now. I'd have it transferred as a pistol if you have the option.

Just because the lower is engraved "Pistol" doesn't mean squat though it indicates to me that it 'may' never have been in a rifle configuration in the past. It's engraved just to help when/if an ignorant law enforcement officer thinks that you have an unregistered SBR. It says "Pistol" therefore it is a pistol as far as they 'might' be concerned. If they press the issue and choose to charge you then you are obviously guilty until proven innocent. Sooooo you eventually prove yourself innocent and you can say "I told you so ... it says pistol on the lower" and you are not even entitled to an apology. Just because it says pistol doesn't mean squat, but it 'might' help to satisfy the ignorant and 'might' keep you from being taken in. Did I say 'might' enough? Knowing the laws is not part of law enforcement officers job description.

So according to this, I can use a lower I have in my closet to build a pistol with right?

A lower is a lower is a lower, provided it has never had a stock attached, then its considered a rifle for life*. When the 4473 is filled out and assuming the lower has never been assembled into a rifle then it is marked as "other".

*Unless registered as an SBR/AOW

I've been reading the pinned topics and I have yet to find the answer. There should be a clear topic with regard to the new form and what the definitions of the options of the form are.

According to the current ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) Part I Revised August 2008; Section B Question 18:



Section B instructions for Question 18 are as follows:

Thank you SR712 !

As to engraving "pistol" on the lower.  This is done only to appease the tin-hat crowd.  There is absolutely no legal requirement.  Have you EVER seen any other handgun with the word "PSITOL" engraved on it?  Of course you haven't.
It also use to be a big money maker for the lower sellers because some would charge $50 to $100 more for a PISTOL marked lower.  At least they have gotten some conscience and have quit charging a premium for those worthless markings.
The ATFE has never said in any letter anywhere that these pistol lowers need to be marked PISTOL.  So if you want PISTOL on your lower, get one, but it still needs to be marked as OTHER on the 4473.  If you don't want PISTOL on your lower, then get any NEW stripped lower you want and enjoy.

Um, do what?  Who in the hell is going to know if a stock was ever attatched?  Is there some kind of permanent impression a stock leaves on the lower that would in fact, in the future indicate to law enforcement that a stock has been on this lower before?



I apologize for my ignorance, but this was confusing.

Oh please do not open this can of worms again, just play along, if you think different, or know different, just keep it to yourself and do as you wish, but for god's sake don't tell anybody about it, they'll be some pansies tell you your are breaking the law and all sorts of crap.  Then you get accused of encouraging people to break ficticious laws and stuff, pretty ridiculous if you ask me, but it happens.  You may even be threatened with being banned for thinking the right way.

Don't ask how I know, I do tho.  Just go along with the stuff you know is BS, and smile, smile real big knowing there are people around making their own life real, real difficult because they don't want to know the truth.

In a thumbnail, you buy a stripped lower it gets transferred on yellow form 4473 as "OTHER" in box 18, it is up to you to "make" it however you wish, although you can not sell it assembled.  Also, by defined law, once you create a rifle (with shoulder stock) it can never go back to a pistol.  There is no definite way to tell it has ever had a rifle stock on it, but law does state it can never go back.

Once a rifle, it can be "made" into an SBR (rifle stock attached and barrel shorter then 16" ) with a $200 stamp.

If you make a pistol first you can keep it a pistol, add a shoulder stock and register as an SBR, or add a VFG and register as AOW (also $200 tax stamp).

Hope this helps.

Actually, that helps quite a bit.  The only reason I was looking to build a pistol was so I could legally have a 11.5 inch barrel in my possession until the tax stamp came back (which I've yet to start that paperwork).

 

This is correct.  
Just to clarify, you can put a VG on an SBR even if the SBR does not have a stock.  An SBR may or may not have a stock and still be legal.  And an SBR may have a VG.  But, the AOW can never have a stock but can have a VG.
So, unless your state does not allow SBRs, make the SBR instead of the AOW since they cost the same to make ($200).  That way you can have VG and stock, VG and no stock, or anything you damned well please except for FA fire.

I believe this may be a bit inaccurate, an SBR by definition is a "rifle" blah, blah, less than 16" barrel, blah, and a "rifle" by definition is a weapon made, remade, designed, redisigned and intended to be fired from the shoulder.  This would also most likely fall under the "once a rifle, always a rifle" category ATF has.  You can put a VFG on a SBR, but I sure wouldn't take the stock off of an SBR, that is askin for trouble if you get caught.

Again, my disclaimer, don't take my word for it, you can read it for yourself on the ATF site.  page 6    http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Hope this helps.

huh? Can I clarify this? So if I bought a stripped lower 1 year ago that transferred to me as "other", and in the mean time - I did a build with it (rifle 16" say") I can't sell this next year as a complete firearm??? I may consider myself very stupid if I didn't know that.
If not, could I just sell the lower as "other", but just really expensive?? OR do you just separate the lower from the upper, and sell separate?

 And if one removes the stock from a rifle with a VFG and a 20" barrel, is that also asking for trouble?

I can't seem to get the picture posting to work, but on this link About 3/4 of way down page is a letter from ATF to Dr.Engineer2001 in the second paragraph, they even underlined it.  There is apparently some kind of excise tax on every firearm, when we buy stripped lowers the manufacturers of those lowers, they do not pay it because the lowers are not complete guns, once we "make" a complete gun we would technically have to pay that tax before we could sell said completed gun.  This is in no way related to NFA tax stamps.

Why do you insist on asking such stupid questions?

Can you not read?  Or is it you like to go crying to site admin when people get tired of putting up with your BS and state something to maybe shut you up?  Then you feel threatened and have to have big brother protect you?  Thats when you only tell site admin how much you are being picked on for provoking the answers you get, yet you must fail to mention about the provoking and never ending BS you post. . .

This ignorant question doesn't even justify an answer, maybe try reading posts for a change, the whole post, each reply, not just little excerpts from them, then if you have something helpful to post, post it.  I'm sure there are many others out there tired of filtering thru your BS to try and find something useful, I know I sure am.

Go ahead and report this now to the site admin, so they can threaten to ban me again for speaking out against people like you.

Sorry but this is incorrect, they are talking about building a gun and selling for profit, not someone who builds a gun from the ground up and sells it a year later because he needs cash/wants a new gun/gets bored with it ect ect.

Sorry, I can only read black and white.  To me, and according to a buddy who does this for some extra income with long range bolt guns, understand when it says :

"states that an unlicensed individual may make a "firearm" as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution."

it means just that.  Period.

He explained it to me quite some time before I built my first AR.  He requires his customers to supply a "firearm" for him to modify, (barrel, action, triggerwork, etc) then he is not required to submit papers for the work.  He can also purchase say a Rem700 SPS, then change barrel, bolt, trigger etc. to whatever the customer wants, and doesn't have to have a manufaturers license.  This is from his learnings with ATF over the years.

However if he purchased say a stripped Rem700 action and then he bought all the stuff to "make" it a complete firearm, he, in the eyes of ATF becomes a "manufacturer" and is required to have a different FFL, and lots more paperwork.

ATF did stop the requirement a few years back that made him log in each firearm he worked on, then require a background check before he could return it to the person who brought it to him.

No, you can take the stock off an SBR and be completely OK.  When I did my MP5-PDW clone SBR I wanted to take the stock off and put on an end cap because at that time, it still fell under the AWB and I could not make the stock fold so I specifically inquired to the ATFE NFA branch if I could remove the stock on my SBR and replace it with an end cap, essentially making an MP5K.
They replied in no uncertain terms that, because of the AWB, that was still in affect, I could not make my stock fold, but I could replace the stock with an end cap.
Of course now that the AWB ended I can make the stock fold and did, but if I should want to take it off the stock and put on the end cap I am perfectly legal in doing so.

There are a BUNCH of misstatements in here.....see the replies. Your statement regarding the excise tax is also incorrect....if I sell a gun I built-up from a stripped receiver, I'm STILL selling a used gun. IF I build several of them with the INTENTION of selling them, THEN I would be an illegal manufacturer, and the excise tax would be the LEAST of my worries....

AOW is a $5.00 transfer, and $200.00 to make and register for us non SOT's

You can sell any pistol you make. You cannot make them with the intention of selling them. Also, any pistol you make does not have to have a serial number. If you decide to sell it, you must engrave a serial number on it, and it would transfer like any other pistol, through an FFL. GROG

Only title 2 weapons are required to have a serial number. It is my opinion that putting one on any "home built" firearm could prevent potential problems - keeping or selling.

I thought I'd ask this in here rather than start a new thread.  

If I'm understanding this right, you can build a pistol with a barrel under 16", and you don't need to fill out any special forms or pay a tax stamp.  
You can turn that pistol into an SBR (add a buttstock) if you fill out the paperwork and pay the tax stamp.  
You can't build a pistol using a lower that was previously a rifle.
Is that correct?

Well it's either yes or no.  I read above.  

Yes, but you have to SBR it.

Is there a state law that limits a pistol to a barrel length less than 16". Just wondering because I can not find a reference to any federal law that requires this limit.

Joe.

Not that I have ever seen either. Some states have barrel length requirements though.