Dr69er and I are putting together a 6.5/223 wildcat, he has the reamer ordered, and is working on getting the reloading dies made. I am talking with Carl owner of Black Hole Weaponry about building our barrels.

It will be a 300 yard deer and hog slaying tack driver. I had a old hunting buddy call me today who is a lurker on here and saw my report on my 6x45  BHW barrel and wants a little more punch, he wants in on the 6.5-223.

I thought I would throw it out and see if there others that would be interested 6.5-223.

Thanks, Paul

The Dr. can get you squared away with all of that.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I demo'd the CMC trigger 3.5 lb pull, it is super smooth, I like it so well I bought 2 of them, one for my 6.5pcc and one to use on a future build. I highly recommend this trigger, it is great and much less expensive than a Timney or Giessel trigger, made here in Texas.

There's no price on the CMC triggers.  In my 6.5 PCC I am using an RRA National Match trigger that breaks nice and clean at about 4 lbs for about $95 from Joe Bob Outfitters.  In my 6x45mm AR I am using an RRA NM varmint trigger that breaks clean at 3.5 lbs from Eagle Armory for about $88.  Both of these also install just like the original triggers for AR15s instead of the box style where you just pop pins and drop in.

It seems to all boil down to weather you prefer a single stage or dual stage trigger...I myself prefer a single stage unit like the CMC drop-in version...Although,
a nice reliable Two stage trigger would not be a bad thing if you can source them a good price point and you prefer a Two stage trigger....

Vic - we're talking about you over on our forum, pay a visit if you can!


6.5PCC on Wolveirne Forum

Hey BigDawg could I get a link to your Excel data book. Thanks

Done, thanks.

The usual retail for the CMC trigger is 189.00, but I found them for 169.00 ea, they are a drop in box just like the Timney, not as economical as the RRA Match, but super sweet trigger for about 60 to 80.00 less than the Timney.

Any of ya'll using a Dillon 550 by any chance? If so, what powder funnel are you using in the powder die? I see a "6.5mm rifle" and a "6.5 Grendel/6.5 Creedmore" listed, and about $10 difference between them.

I am just curious if anyone here is familiar with Cryo treatment, I am considering sending 2 AR Barrels to 300 below inc,
From the reading I have done they seem to be the ones who have been doing it the longest and have a good reputaion .
The Claim is that it will improve Accuracy, improve durability, and increase velocity slightly.

It has been used in the Machine Tool Industry for a while now and some barrel and firearm manufactures also use the
Cryo treatment as well...If you can get the treatment at a good price I say go for it It certainly can't hurt anything IMHO.

It has also been used in the (HP/R) Auto Industry for a while as well, and has been popular for ant-wear and for heat
dissipation uses, etc.

300 Below Inc. has been around for a fairly long time and they do have a good rep. in the Industry from what I have
seen/heard so far, and they seem to offer very good customer service with written performance guarantees...

Good luck, hope it performs to your liking if you decide to get it done...

Have used 300 Below on a couple AKs that shot worse than AKs normally shoot. They did improve. Also sent in an AR barrel that was made by a well regarded manufacturer. It was vertically stringing, no matter what loads I shot through it. After cryo, no more stringing.

Anyone still have the load data pdf? My computer crapped out, and lost that amongst other things.

I have it saved on my MS OneDrive. Open it up (opens in online word; will save as a .pdf).

6.5 PCC Load & Field Data

Thank you sir.

Sorry as I haven't had the time to look through the whole thread but have you guys experimented with 125-140gr bullets? Are they too slow (possible sub options?) or could you make them work? How about the extreme possibility of 160gr's? Sorry and thank you!

We have tried up to the 144gr. Lapua FMJBT in the 6.5mm PCC round...Velocity from just over 2,000 fps. to about 2,228 fps. depending on FF, barrel length, powders, etc...

Been working on a few loads for hunting season:
100gr TTSX with tips pulled/ 26.9gr H335

100gr Nosler Partition SP/ 28.2gr H335

100gr Amax/ 28.2gr H335

Very nice work Bruizer...The Hornady's and Nosler's usually do very well in the 6.5mm PCC barrels...It's nice to see
that the Barnes TTSX rounds are also doing well.

Have you gotten a chance to check the velocities of the above loads yet ?

Thanks again for the great updates...

3 shot average of 2717 fps for the 100gr SP

3 shot average of 2673 fps for the 100gr TTSX with tips pulled off

5 shot average of 2712 for 100gr AMAX rounds

I pushed the Nosler partitions to a tad over 2800 fps but the groups opened up quite a bit..

Excellent velocity to accuracy ratio with those loads...Thanks again for posting your field results.

Quick and dirty update....

I have one of the 10.5" SBR barrels.  My initial goal was to create an SBR that will shoot subsonic suppressed loads as well as supersonic.  I also wanted the ability to utilize some existing projectiles I have in inventory for my 6.5 Grendel.

I will post some pictures later...as time allows.  This is the data I have so far.

Disclaimer:  These are not recommended loads, use at your own risk!!!  For recommended starting loads view Dr69er's post a few pages back.

Temperature: 89*
Humidity: 75%
Elevation: 1,225 ft ASL

Distance to chronograph - 15 ft

The first day I loaded up 10 rounds of each of the following loads (using once-fired WCC99 brass):

1. 123gr Hornady A-max, AA1680 - 17.6gr, Wolf SRM, COAL: 2.285"
   Avg. Velocity - 1,842 fps; ES - 98 (a little concerned, but I am hand measuring each load)

2. 140gr Hornady BTHP, AA1680 - 16.3gr, Wolf SRM, COAL: 2.285"
    Avg. Velocity - 1,557 fps; ES - 12

3. 144gr Lapua FMJBT, AA1680 - 16.7gr, Wolf SRM, COAL: 2.285"
    Avg. Velocity - 1,748 fps: ES - 65

A few weeks later I was able to get back out with some new loads (all of these were shot suppressed):

1. 123gr Hornady A-max, AA1680 - 18.3gr, Wolf SRM, COAL: 2.285"
   Avg. Velocity - 1,939 fps; ES - 51

2. 140gr Hornady BTHP, AA1680 - 17.0gr, Wolf SRM, COAL: 2.285"
   Avg. Velocity - 1,755 fps: ES - 82 (some concern here)

3. 144gr Lapua FMJBT, AA1680 - 17.3gr, Wolf SRM, COAL: 2.285"
    Avg. Velocity - 1,764 fps: ES - 40

Overall, I was pretty impressed with those velocity numbers from a 10.5" barrel.  Also, everything feed, fired, and ejected perfectly.  Without the suppressor I had 3 o'clock ejection.  With the suppressor attached I had ejection at 1:30.

Accuracy was not specifically being tested at this point.  I was shooting at an 8" round plate (AR500), and all shots were covered with my fist (~4").  I threw a Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP on it for the test.  I'm not looking for a clover leaf with this gun, but with a good load and a good trigger puller I have no doubts in the capability of this cartridge (subsonic may be a different story...).

Obviously ES is all over the board, so I'm not sure what is happening there.

Since these are initial loads, I now have some fire-formed brass to work from (may improve ES).

Suppressor used was a YHM Ti 30 cal (I have a SiCo Omega on the way as well, and I will be trading it out).  I was definitely impressed with the tone and sound.  This is going to make a great little hunting rig.

Has anyone dabbled with subsonic loads yet?  I want to start there next, but I'm not sure where to start.  I have ZERO experience loading subs.

Godspeed,
Chase

Chase glad you got the chance to get out to the range and give your SBR a small workout...keep us updated as you get more time behind
the trigger...We are happy that you are happy with your results so far...I hope some that have a lot experience with SBR's/suppressor
work will chime in for you with suggestions...Thanks again.

Chase, here is a link to the .277 Wolverine [6.8mm]  ( a cartridge that is similar to the 6.5 PCC) in the subsonic section of the forum...I consider Mark
a good friend and I am sure he will chime in at some point...Perhaps it will give some Ideas with subsonic loads...

http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/subsonic-load-data-7290697?&trail=150

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.  I'm looking to forward to working up some more loads.  I think I'm happy with my super loads, so now I'll tweak for accuracy.

I can't wait to get started on some subs, but I will need to source some powder....

Happy to help... and so are the folks on the WLV forum...

Stumbled across this...seems very promising for the 6.5mm PCC round in 90gr to 110gr form, just
look at those BC numbers ! Pricey but may be worth it...

https://www.whiskey3precisionsystems.com/65mm-tac-pm%20%C2%AE

Holy cow that's pricey.

Yep they are rather pricey...really nice BC numbers...certainly not made for plinking unless you have really deep pockets.

These are total vaporware. 0 delivered to real world customers from what I can find.


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Most of their stuff is.

If you guys want lighter bullets check out Pure Precision.  I've been shooting some of their 105gr Match AR lately.  I bought a box of 50 and they're accurate.  I've been doing some shot development with the box.  This was my fouling target a .5" group at 100yds tonight shooting prone with a bipod and sandbag. The rest of my groups were good but not this good.  I was doing round robin target shooting for my OCW.  Pure Precision just made some 85gr 6.5mm bullets at my request.  I just got them in the mail today and haven't had a chance to look at load workups yet.



Another great lighter bullet is the Controlled Chaos Lehigh Defense 95gr, and it's priced really nice if you ask me.  I've been getting great groups with them.

Thanks for the tip/update we have tried the LDCC 95gr. pills they are well made and accurate, but don't do as well in a polygonal rifled bore
that we use in the 6.5mm PCC barrels...most all conventional pills do very well in the 6.5 PCC and will shoot 1 MOA or better...

I went out with the 85gr Pure Precision match bullets.  They were all flying over 2800fps with some H322.  I pretty much took Hodgdon's data for the 85gr Sierra Varminter and worked up safely.  I didn't see any pressure signs and could probably push these a little faster with a different powder.  I just wanted the H322 a shot since I've barely used it since buying a pound.

We are able to get around 3,000 fps using common 85gr loads with H335 powder with the 6.5mm PCC round...Thanks
again for your field reports and projectile suggestions...

Hey Vic... as a thanks for your help, I would like you to check this out... you have your own 6.5PCC forum on the WLV forum.  If you would like to use it, and have us keep it up there, let me know.  If not, let me know.  you can be your own moderator and send folks to your own forum within our forum.  

You can create as many threads/discussions as you like instead of folks having to read through 9,855 pages of goodness that you have going on over here.

Here's the link:

http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/?forum=467591

Thanks Mark, I will be happy to moderate on that thread/sub forum on your site...the progress you have made
with the .277 Wolverine is nothing short of amazing.

Great if I see your username pop up for membership I'll flip the switch for you and you can have at it from there. We're going to be making some changes to the overall layout to accommodate other great cartridges like yours.

Mark send me the link and I will be happy to become a paid member/sponsor...Also, email me with your phone # or call me if you can
I got a few ideas for your next project if you like...

Ok, Haven't read thru this whole thread yet. I just stumbled on it. But the idea of having a 6.5 Creedmore AR10 and bolt rifle and a 6.5 PCC in AR15 platform sounds really interesting since I'm an aging shooter that likes to reload my precision rounds.  Would make things soo much simpler just to keep up with 1 bullet type for rifles. 6.5.

Be interested to see how this develops. Currently I have a 6.8 and 300 BO along with standard chambers.

Would be nice to not have to stock so many different bullets.

Anyway I will read up and follow this thread more closely.

Thanks
SS33

Thanks for your Interest in the 6.5mm PCC round...It works out like this:


In a nutshell end users are getting with 18" to 24" barrels, (accuracy is 1 MOA or less @ 100 yards with most tuned loads):


85 grainers are running at ~ 3,000 fps.

100 grainers at ~ 2,800 fps or so.

120 grainers at ~ 2,450 fps to about 2,550 fps.

123 Hornady A-Max at ~ 2,403 fps. (with tips) 2,508 fps. (with tips removed).

125 Nosler Partition at ~ 2,344 fps.

129 Hornady Interbond Spire Soft Point at ~ 2,304 fps.

144 Lapua FMJBT at ~ 2,230 fps.


Best powder: H335. Other Good Powders are: AA1680, AA2230, Xterminator, TAC, W748

Best Magazines: Heckler & Koch 416 5.56 Marine Mags and PRI 6.8 SPC Mags with .223/5.56 Followers, ASC 5.56 Mags.
They generally offer the best COL and are generally very reliable.

Barrels are made to spec by BHW and are sourced from 416R Grade Stainless Steel blanks and are Match Grade with Polygonal Rifling
and are made in a 1:8 Twist...

Lee Precision makes the Dies and Include a Factory Crimp Die.

Hope this helps.

I was hoping that it would be a basic swap barrel only like the 300BO.  Using 6.8 mags the lips are different because of case size. The 6.5 PCC is a 223 case modified like the 300BO right?  Why does it need the 6.8 mags?
Looks like the heavier bullets are seating pretty deep into the case.

What caught my attention with this cartridge is if I swapped out my AR10 to 6.5CM I would only have one size bullet for reloading, just several different weights.  Economy in my old age. I hate stocking up too much different stuff.
They whole debate with the Grendel thing at the beginning of this thread is not a concern for me since for distance I would be using a 6.5CM.  What I don't like about the Grendel and the 6.8 is that it's not a straight barrel change like the 300BO.  Again simplicity for me. I hate having 6.8SPC mags, 5.56 mags, 308 AR10 mags etc... if the 6.5PCC would be a straight barrel swap it would be more attractive to me.
A lot of these guys are into the build and multi cal guns, I had my day with that stuff about 10-20years ago
I'm on my down hill swing now and I don't like taking care of some much different stuff. I just like to load and shoot.

Anyway I have a lot more reading to do since I'm a noob to this cartridge.
Thanks for the cliff notes version. It saved me some seriously boring reading. 1st couple pages of the thread were all about Grendel vs 6.5PCC banter.
I'm interested because it's reducing the number of cartridges and bullets for me,,,, not adding another along with extra parts.
THX
SS33

You're all set Vic.  Made you the moderator of your sub-forum over there.  There are no paid advertisements, etc.  It's not big enough yet.  When the bandwidth is uses creates charges from the service, we will solicit some donations from folks but it it not there yet.  All free!

I'll email you my phone number in a moment.  I'm not very good at answering the phone sometimes FYI... ha.

Effectively it is just a basic barrel swap with the 6.5mm PCC, all the components are swap-able with the .223 Rem./5.56mm NATO Including the
magazine (however the magazines listed above give the most available Combined Overall Length for the 6.5mm PCC round and have proven reliable),
so it is similar to swapping the .223 Rem to the .300 Blackout...BTW you can also use some of the .300 Blackout mags you may already have for the
6.5mm PCC round...Fire formed brass (loads) will fit the PRI 6.8 SPC mag bodies using .223/5.56 mag followers w/o Issue, the reason some use this
magazine set up is due to the extended amount of COL available using such a set up (2.300" or so)...

Hope I made it a little clearer on how the round was designed, It is closer in design to the 7.62 x 40mm Wilson Tactical which maximizes the case
capacity and velocity, etc.

Thanks.

Cool thread. I have a Grendel already so the PCC doesn't interest me all that much. The 277wlv on the other hand....I just ditched 300 blk I already have guns that cover that nitch.

ETA: Independent Article on the 6.5mm PCC round...The author used a stock 10 round ASC .223/5.56mm magazine.

http://rifleshooter.com/2014/11/6-5-patriot-combat-cartridge-6-5-pcc-6-5mm-wildcat-for-the-ar15m-16/

If you notice with the 120gr Nosler BT velocities listed in the article were lower than normal than those gotten by other 6.5mm PCC end users in actual field
testing, this was due to the shorter COL used by the author (around 2.250" to 2.260"). For example, 6.5mm PCC end users were getting a average of 2,423 fps
using .2 grains less powder (25.8 grs.of H335) loaded to 2.285" to 2.295" COL.

The 100gr Nosler BT loads were much closer to what actual 6.5mm PCC users were getting in the field...

Lastly, 6.5mm PCC end users were getting much better accuracy overall (usually sub MOA at 100 yards) than those cited in the article, most likely due to the fact
that it was a brand new un-fired barrel and had not settled in yet, etc.

It's a cool cartridge, and now that the powder drought is easing up, I can load for it again.

Wasn't there some talk about someone making ammo for this?

Yes, however I did not like the price point...so the struggle continues to find a 06 FFL that can produce quality rounds at a reasonable price point...

so I was looking on BHW for the barrels and they don't have them listed on the website.  Are they special order?

Yes, they treat it as a special order...If you go to:

http://illirianengineeringc.ipage.com/products-and-service-info.html

You can order your barrel kit/complete upper with the specs your looking for direct via orders email...when ordering direct through us you will
receive many free extra's and lifetime load data/tech support etc. You will also receive free chamber throating. The factory does not offer dies
for sale...

Thanks