Anyone have  one of these JP Bolts made out 9310 steel  ?     Claim is that it is better than a Mil Spec 8620 bolt and that it will last 10X longer.  

http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.7_bc.php

There was an article in S.W.A.T. Magazine stating that the J.P. Bolt caused jamming due to the inside of the bolt head being too small of a diameter. Also it broke in half at the cam pin hole. P.O.S.

PursuitSS

The bolt face does look smaller in the pic ?  $159.95 is pretty pricey.  You would think JP would have tested the hell out of that bolt for the claims they are making.....

I had a GI bolt break in the middle of a 3-gun match. I replaced it with this JP bolt. I only have maybe 1000 rounds through it, but so far so good. No jamming - I believe they fixed the undersize breech face issue a while back. It's actually made by Leitner-Wise, just resold by JP. Oh, and the extractor is proprietary, so make sure you can get spares.

ETA: I forgot to mention that the bolt came with an extractor pin that was fractionally too long (or not adequately radiused at the end), and which prevented the bolt from installing in my BC. I just swapped it out for a spare GI pin I had sitting around. One day I will clean up the end of the JP pin and put it back in my spares box.

The most appealing bolt to me right now is the one coming in KAC guns that use a proprietary barrel extension. Aside from that Ive really been considering a fail-zero

Fail zero was the one that had the special lube coating correct ?  

Also there was a good  thread a while back that was about bolt steel and the Mil Spec requirements for bolts.   I tried a serch but didn't find it. Anyone know where that thread is ?

Thanks,
OL

Nothing like leaving out the results of the other half of the story.

If you want to buy into that "It was too small because it was for "Match use" Bullshit, fine! The last time I checked the rim diameter for ANY .223 / 5.56 was 0.378". NO difference whether it's "Match" or otherwise.

I'm interested in a "Super bolt" for durability and reliability. If one sent to a writer for a Gun magazine fails, what are the odds of one that "Joe Shooter" purchases failing? And the damn thing broke in half! If I want that I can purchase a Vulcan bolt for a hell of a lot less money.

I'm going with either a LMT Enhanced bolt or a LWRC Advanced Combat Bolt.

PursuitSS.

There were two initial issues with the JP/LWD bolts.  The first issue had to do with the failure of cases to be ejected.  It tuned out that a small batch of these bolts were produced as a special order for the precision shooting crowd (confirmed by Ned Christiansen himself.) The caseheads of Hornady match brass runs approximately 0.375".  

A few of these special run bolts accidentally went out to regular consumers.  Ned Christiansen received such a bolt (his SWAT article was base on that bolt.)  I also accidentally received such a bolt and posted about it back in April.

This special run of bolts has an inside diameter that is approximately 0.006” narrower than a standard Colt mil-spec bolt (confirmed by myself and Ned Christiansen.)  When using reloaded brass or brass with over-spec case heads the failures to eject occurred.  Once I changed to firing all virgin brass with this bolt the failures to eject disappeared.  Ned Christiansen reamed the bolt face of his bolt to mil-spec diameter and his malfunctions ceased also.

I have 1,000 rounds on my JP bolt now, without any further issues and it still looks almost like new.

Also,  isn't the Leitner-Wise bolt being sold by J.P. Enterprises manufactured by the same Paul Leitner that has been "Banned for Life" from AR15.com for the shenanigans he pulled here in 2005-2006 which also resulted in him being forced out of his own company LWRC?

PursuitSS

Nothing like discussing the FACTS about a product; that is, unless you don't actually have any.  Then just sling mud, eh?

Fact - The Bolt sent to a MAGAZINE WRITER BROKE IN HALF!

Fact - The Bolt wouldn't function because it was NOT machined to the correct SAAMI specifications!

Fact - Paul Leitner was using "shill" accounts to promote his products

How in the hell is that "mud slinging?"

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=289790

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=321755

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=311806

PursuitSS

What I can't believe is John Paul at J.P. Enterprises is working with Paul Leitner!

IF & WHEN I can find an LMT Enhanced Bolt (or LWRC ACB), I'm going to purchase it!



I'd much rather spend the $155.00 for a bolt that has a proven track record than piss away $139.95 for a bolt made by Paul Leitner! I have to depend on my weapon on entry situations.

PursuitSS

As far as I know the LMT bolt is not made of a different, upgraded bolt steel.  LWD and LWRC both are.

LWD is not a dual extractor set up. LMT and LWRC both are.

As far as I know the Fail Zero coating is just an electroless nickle boron carbide compostie coating.  That is an option on the LWRC ACB.

The LWRC ACB has some usefull features that the LMT does not... like the ability to take a single extractor spring in an emergency should you lose one of your dual springs.

I dont see why someone would puchase a LWD or LMT bolt with the LWRC ACB avaialble.  However the ACB is harder to find than the others.

Anyone have any thoughts/reports on the IT bolts at AR15 Performance?



http://www.ar15performance.com/parts

They are 10X stronger than 8620.......
........but G.I. Bolts are made from Carpenter 158.

I've had to return TWO different LMT Enhanced Bolts because they were defective.  One was so badly out of spec, that I couldn't even get it to seat in a bolt carrier.

I'm currently running two of the LWRC ACB bolts.  While I have not had any issues with mine, there have been multiple reports of problems with the extractors.

All of my "go-to" weapons currently have Colt bolts in them.






I also had problems with one of the LWRC advanced bolt carriers. My second one is running fine.

Well that's what JP's add said - mil spec 8260.   From what I've read commercial bolts are still made of the old  8620 Mil Spec steel  and the new Mil Spec for bolts is  Carpenter 158 tool steel.   Wonder how 158 stacks up against JP's (LW)  9310 steel ?  

I'm no metals expert, but it seems like the best steel is one that doesn't get too brittle from case hardening the thin steel around the cam pin hole.    

Any  Metallurgists out there ?  please comment....

How can PLW manufacture bolts when he has been ejected from the company?

He works at night.

Are .mil carriers 8260? Maybe some miswording/confusion if that's the case?



 

Here is PLW's NEW Company: Leitner-Wise Defense

Here is his FORMER Company: LWRC

PursuitSS

Ahh, I was wondering where he went.

There are two generation exctractors.  My very first LWRC ACB had the orginal extractor which I immediately found to damage 90% of all brass rims and cause about a 5-10% failure rate of the rim where it tore through.  This was pretty obviously because the orginal ACB extractor was significantly narrower than a normal extractor becasue of the non undercut lugs on either side of the extractor.  Of course the lugs were not undercut like a normal bolt to improve strength and that is one of the places, along with the came pin hole, that AR bolts break.  LWRC then produced a revised extractor with flared section to increase surface area of the claw call the Raptor extractor which has been stanard on LWRC ACB bolts for years now.  






You can see my first gen ACB here and this was back when it was made of the same material the current JP/LWD bolt is currently made from.  The Gen 1.1 replaced this narrow head extractor with a wide/flared head and the Gen 2 combines a new stainless type steel (which they dont specify other than its used in racecar/Formula 1 transmissions) a deletion of the lug cuts that tended to catch brass rims and of course the Raptor extractor.  Since I have used the Raptor extractor on Gen 1.1 and Gen 2.0 bolts I have never had an extractor related issue.  I have never heard of an extractor related issue.  However, with Gen 1.0 bolts it was VERY common.  

I dont think you or anyone else should have concerns with the current bolts for extractor issues.

If you have a 2 after the LWS on your extractor it should have the flared/improved design.  If your extractor just says LWS like mine in the pic I would replace it ASAP.  It is obvious from your bolt cuts in the pic this is either a Gen 1.0 or 1.1 bolt. I cant see your extractor head or the markings in your pics. Gen 2.0 and 2.1 bolt have the lug cuts deleted and all have the improved extractor (2.1 adds coatings while 2.0 was just bare stainless BTW).

IMO the LWS extractor is THE worst extractor set up you can get for an AR and the revised version on current ACBs is the BEST.  You gotta make sure you have the right one.

I dont have a pic of the revised extractor on my current bolt handy but the claw section will look much like this one on the LWD with a flare vs just tapering even smaller without the flared claw.

Carriers are 8620, bolts are Carpenter 158. No military bolts are 8620, never have been.

Why the proprietary extractor?


I'd love to try one of these bolts but I'd prefer if a standard extractor could be swapped in if I need to.

I like my Young's bolt better compared to the Colt & LMT bolts I have, JMO.

Reduce or eliminate the undercut that weakens the bolt lugs next to the extractor.

Yeap...that was some info too.