Ok, I love the way this gun looks and feels to the touch.  I am new to law enforcement and I want an ar15, for looks but also for sport shooting and home protection.  The local sports store has the following Armalites, if you guys could tell me the difference please, because i have no idea:

m15a2 .223 $900 (barrell longer than other 2)
Armalite A4 w/ Carhydl Carbine .223 $1100
M15a2 Carbine 1113 (guessing its a .223 also) $1300

Other than these, what is a good gun around the prices above that not only functions well, but looks like a military/futuristic AR15 (meaning, with fancy attachments, nice lines... you guys know what i mean, a gun that looks really mean..... such as the non-tan gun of FX345's post on the top of page 10 of the AR15 gallery page.  


thanks!!!  i figured you guys/gals would be the ones to ask!

Buy a COLT 6920 or LMT or NOVESKE

I understand if you want to support your local gunshop... but if I knew then what I know now... buy once cry once...

Order a LE6920 or Contact Denny at global tactical and get a complete LMT rifle.

just my .02 worth.

Quoted: I understand if you want to support your local gunshop... but if I knew then what I know now... buy once cry once... Order a LE6920 or Contact Denny at global tactical and get a complete LMT rifle. just my .02 worth.

I agree

but man have you seen those NOVESKE LATELY

They look awesome!  uh oh..... just got wood actually...LOL....

But I cant recomend something I have no personal experience with..... so ill go with what I know... Colt or LMT.

Quoted: but man have you seen those NOVESKE LATELY

get BOTH -- LMT lower + Noveske barreled upper.

ar-jedi

also investigate local Highpower events in your home state. There are many directions to go.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=9&f=14

and

nationalmatch.us
you'll have to register to access this one, but it is very informative and has very useful links on the homepage.

i rec'd an IM that asked:

that LMT/Noveske you posted looks great. What specs are the LMT and Noveske halfves? (basically what are they specifically called, length?)

the lower receiver pictured on the rifle above is an LMT Defender 2000; it is the single stage trigger setup and comes with an Ergo grip and an M4 style 6-position stock.  the one in the picture above came from jason @ jtac.  here is his ad in the EE section:
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=374459

the upper assembly pictured on the rifle above is not a store-bought item.  it is an assembly of a Noveske 14.7" Afghan barrel (midlength gas system) which was supplied with a cross-pinned Vltor gas block, a pinned-on AK Concepts DNTC brake, a Larue 9" free float forearm, and a Larue "Stealth" billet upper receiver w/ M4 ramps.  the internals consist of a GTS "super duty" bolt and bolt carrier.  

to end up with a simliar upper assembly you can either
(1) hunt through the EE, buy up all the parts you need, and put it together on your workbench with just a few tools, OR
(2) contact one of the many excellent upper builders here to do the assembly for you.  in most cases, unless some special work is done, they will assemble the parts they sell into any upper configuration you want at no additional cost.  for this type of work, i typically deal with Denny at GTS (Global Tactical) -- he does good work.  call him up, tell him what you need, and it'll be on your doorstop shortly thereafter.  

ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=389274
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=387290
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=336728

i suggest that if you want a custom upper, you first determine what purpose it will serve: do you want to end up with a home defense gun?  a long range target gun?  a range plinker? etc.  the choice of the barrel is the most important aspect.  once you have decided on a barrel length, material, and profile, you can wrap the rest of the upper around it.  for example: there is no point in putting an Aimpoint red dot optic on top of a 20" Krieger barrel, and similarly there is no point in putting a $1500 target/DMR scope on top of a 14.5" run-of-the-mill chromoloy barrel.  

btw -- the optic shown is above a Trijicon TA31RCO-M4, designed spefically for the M4 barrel length.  in the A4 variant (for 20" bbls) this is the one of the USMC's primary issue optics.  not shown are the BUIS (Troy) which were in transit when i took those pictures.

ar-jedi

Quoted: Ok, I love the way this gun looks and feels to the touch.  I am new to law enforcement and I want an ar15, for looks but also for sport shooting and home protection.  The local sports store has the following Armalites, if you guys could tell me the difference please, because i have no idea: m15a2 .223 $900 (barrell longer than other 2) Armalite A4 w/ Carhydl Carbine .223 $1100 M15a2 Carbine 1113 (guessing its a .223 also) $1300 Other than these, what is a good gun around the prices above that not only functions well, but looks like a military/futuristic AR15 (meaning, with fancy attachments, nice lines... you guys know what i mean, a gun that looks really mean..... such as the non-tan gun of FX345's post on the top of page 10 of the AR15 gallery page.   thanks!!!  i figured you guys/gals would be the ones to ask!

ref'd thread:
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=336159&page=10

i want to mention a few things:

above, you wrote "fancy attachments."  a couple of comments on that.  

one, a lot of those "fancy attachments" cost a lot of money.  in your quoted text above, you refer to the pricing on a bare-bones AR15. this is the first sign of impending sticker shock on the Lego set that we all know and love -- called the AR15.   weapon lights, optics, and so on are not inexpensive.  or rather, i should say, GOOD weapon lights and optics are not inexpensive.  please don't get an Aimpoint clone off of Ebay and expect that it does exactly what you'd expect a real Aimpoint to do.

two, those "fancy attachments" are not a substitute for safe firearm handling, situational awareness, and tactical training.  adding an Aimpoint or EoTech sight does not make you an "operator" -- knowledge and training does.  maybe you already know this, and i'm preaching to the choir.  but maybe you don't, so my advice is to learn the AR15 with a set of iron sights first -- get that down and get it right.

three, a lot of those "fancy attachments" are designed to hang off a rail system which takes the place of the handguards normally equipped on an AR15.  there are two basic approaches to the rail system: the first one is such that the railed parts simply take the place of the handguards, and the second wherein the railed parts are "free-floated" away from the barrel and are only physically attached to the upper receiver.  the latter method is arguably superior BUT costs more and requires removal of the front site post to install.

you can get a great idea of what is involved with the installation of a freefloat handguard by watching the following video:
216.23.214.70/pics/handguard_video_0001.wmv

i tell you this because if you want to hang "fancy attachments" off of your rifle in the future, you should start by thinking about how you are going to do that -- BEFORE you purchase a rifle.  

four, all those "fancy attachments" add weight.  for this reason, there is an entire thread on "KISS" (keep it simple, stupid) rifles...
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=304444

ar-jedi

ps:
i want to reinforce what was suggested by another poster above: get Denny at GTS to build you an LMT upper with a Larue free floating railed forearm substituted in place of the OEM plastic handguard.  
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=255392

then, order a complete LMT lower from Denny/GTS or Jason/JTAC and have that delivered to your local FFL for pick up.

on your kitchen table, slide the upper and lower together, push two pins in, and you have one of the best AR15's available.  plus, you saved the 11% federal excise tax on complete firearms, so in the end it will have cost less than if you had bought it as a complete rifle.

ar-jedi

Quoted: Ok, I love the way this gun looks and feels to the touch.  I am new to law enforcement and I want an ar15, for looks but also for sport shooting and home protection.  The local sports store has the following Armalites, if you guys could tell me the difference please, because i have no idea: m15a2 .223 $900 (barrell longer than other 2) Armalite A4 w/ Carhydl Carbine .223 $1100 M15a2 Carbine 1113 (guessing its a .223 also) $1300 Other than these, what is a good gun around the prices above that not only functions well, but looks like a military/futuristic AR15 (meaning, with fancy attachments, nice lines... you guys know what i mean, a gun that looks really mean..... such as the non-tan gun of FX345's post on the top of page 10 of the AR15 gallery page.   thanks!!!  i figured you guys/gals would be the ones to ask!

I'd spend as little as possible to get a decent weapon and start shooting, and continue to read up on the forums.

You don't really know what you want yet; neither did I at first.

Many people buy, then regret as they get on the learning curve and expand their knowledge and learn what's available and how it works.

CMMG has their bargain bin guns that can get you started at a savings.

Saves money for stuff like magazines, ammo, misc accessories etc.

It doesn't sound like a glamourous or high speed start; but there's a lot to learn.

FieroLoki
is hard up for cash you could ask him about his rifle.

First off, if you want it for on duty use, make sure you pay careful attention to your department policy and get one that you are allowed to use. If you have a liberal policy then have fun but you don't want to get a super cool one that you find out you can't use because its the wrong brand. If you aren't well informed on ARs then I would recommend starting with a solid basic rifle (Colt, LMT, RRA, Bushmaster, etc) and adding parts as you figure out what you want. A S&W MP15T wouldn't be a bad choice either. If you have to have something superbad now and money is no object then have Denny, MSTN or someone else reputable help you design something for your needs and build it for you.

ETA: The Armalites you mention are decent but the second and third sound a little high. Also after looking at the gun you mentioned you like, get the S&W MP15T and add a ACOG or EoTech/Aimpoint w/ 3x magnifier and a Surefire/Pentagon/etc. (assuming your dept. policy allows).

This is a glittering generalization, but it seems 65% of those who are new to the AR start out with the Bushmaster, and about 15% for the Colt.  That leaves 20% for everything else out there.

I think both guns benefit from being common, recognizable names.  There is nothing wrong with either.  Both cost a bit more then other good options.  The Colt will cost a good bit more then most of the other options, but it's a high quality gun with a marquis name.

When I first got into the AR, I started out with a beautiful, slightly purple Bushmaster 20" A2.  It didn't take me long to realize I yearned for something else.  If you already know you're going to want to stick a bunch of doodads on it, buy accordingly.  If you don't really plan on getting heavy into ARs, the Smith & Wesson M&P Tactical is a good choice with some quality parts included, like Troy rails and sights.  You get the advantage of a good rifle backed by good factory support, and several of the hardest choices already made for you.

Of course, the most important thing, if you are going to use it for duty, is that it is approved by your department.  Because it's sort of like a car in that once it is transferred to you, you get a decent amount of depreciation right off the bat.

see also this thread,
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=350220

ar-jedi

Since you mention you're new to law enforcement I would assume you are at least considering using this as a duty gun.  Like the other reply, I would stress checking your department policy.  Also, those fancy attachments might interfere with your patrol vehicle's gun lock so be prepared to stow it in your trunk.  For patrol use I carry a Colt 6530 with no attachments... it's a 16" carbine with a full stock.  The only addition I made was to add a tactical sling.  Be careful about going crazy with the toys as a new cop.... gun shops and law enforcement supply stores love new cops, they buy anything that is black and has velcro.  Maybe some of my LEO brothers and sisters will chime in with some good advice.

height=8

three, a lot of those "fancy attachments" are designed to hang off a rail system which takes the place of the handguards normally equipped on an AR15.  there are two basic approaches to the rail system: the first one is such that the railed parts simply take the place of the handguards, and the second wherein the railed parts are "free-floated" away from the barrel and are only physically attached to the upper receiver.  the latter method is arguably superior BUT costs more and requires removal of the front site post to install. you can get a great idea of what is involved with the installation of a freefloat handguard by watching the following video: 216.23.214.70/pics/handguard_video_0001.wmv

so then, on the S&W M&P M15 T  quad rail, that is free floating, am i correct?  does anyone have any good or bad experiences with this gun?

Quoted: three, a lot of those "fancy attachments" are designed to hang off a rail system which takes the place of the handguards normally equipped on an AR15.  there are two basic approaches to the rail system: the first one is such that the railed parts simply take the place of the handguards, and the second wherein the railed parts are "free-floated" away from the barrel and are only physically attached to the upper receiver.  the latter method is arguably superior BUT costs more and requires removal of the front site post to install. you can get a great idea of what is involved with the installation of a freefloat handguard by watching the following video: 216.23.214.70/pics/handguard_video_0001.wmv so then, on the S&W M&P M15 T  quad rail, that is free floating, am i correct?  does anyone have any good or bad experiences with this gun?

Yes, it is a free float (Troy rail). Yes, they have a good reputation.