What's the real deal with these barrels?  I know, I know, FN can't and won't sell their parts to the public.  So how are these things on the market?

Counterfeits?
Subcontractor overruns?
QC failures?
Stolen property?
All of the above?

Someone give us the straight story!  Thanks in advance...

Surplus. The Army is switching over to the M4 barrels, and now there is alot of 20"rs around.

Interesting, I hadn't considered that.  Do you know this for a fact?  What's your source?  Not that I'm doubting you, per se, I'm just looking for absolutely hard evidence on where these things are coming from after finding mostly only speculative explanations.

Quoted: Surplus. The Army is switching over to the M4 barrels, and now there is alot of 20"rs around.

Can you provide a source for this theory - I have not seen anything where the Army is replacing the the 20" barrels on their rifles for M4 barrels.

Has anyone asked Fulton Armory?  They sell them.  I just posted the question in their forum.

Quoted: Has anyone asked Fulton Armory?  They sell them.  I just posted the question in their forum.

I also wrote to Fulton Armory.  They said they are first-quality barrels, not rejects.  But they wouldn't elaborate further.

They also said they were out of stock and didn't know when they'd be getting more!  

I have been in the business for 9 years and have found NO SUPPLIERS who can definitivley claim they are selling first run "FN" barrels. If some one knows who has them let me know.
Red
xringprecisionrifles.com

J & T surplus used to sell new FN barrels. I still have the catalog

Quoted: Interesting, I hadn't considered that.  Do you know this for a fact?  What's your source?  Not that I'm doubting you, per se, I'm just looking for absolutely hard evidence on where these things are coming from after finding mostly only speculative explanations.

Good luck finding any hard facts. I know, I've checking into this for a while now and can tell you this much....

1. FN barrels are made in house, they are not farmed out. Don't believe dealers (one in particular who hangs out here) that trys to tell you they have FN barrels made by LMT or some other sub.
2. FN doesn't not release factory seconds or rejects. Those barrels go back to get recycled
3. All FN barrels that do not get installed into complete rifles get shipped to the US Gov.
4. The US Gov and it's agencys are under no restrictions and can sell off any parts that they choose to as surplus.

Most of this info came directly from a FN employee (and AR15 member) who's office is right next to the assembly line. Here is the barrel I bought from Fulton Armory. There is no question this is the real deal...











I apologize that the pictures are not clearer

Thats exactly what I got from fulton.  Except mine had a bit more finish wear, so I alumahyde II'd it :-)

Awesome barrel, getting installed in about 8 hours.

Mine did not come in a bag and was marked 99 on the FSB.

Quoted: Quoted: Surplus. The Army is switching over to the M4 barrels, and now there is alot of 20"rs around. Can you provide a source for this theory - I have not seen anything where the Army is replacing the the 20" barrels on their rifles for M4 barrels.

A source? How about news pics showing M4d pieces with new looking uppers and well worn finish on the lowers; some of which are M16A1s at that

Unless Fulton is buying large quantities of stolen barrels, which I don't believe for a minute, that's the only way they could get these pieces.

I do know that I recently bought three M16A2 buttstocks, with Frankford Arsenal paperwork IDing rhem as Colt made, in the wrap, and I don't think that supplier stole them either.

The "source" is the reality of the situation. FN can't sell them, at least some of them are coming in GI wrapping, and they're being sold by a repuable dealer. There are limited comclusions you can come to

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Surplus. The Army is switching over to the M4 barrels, and now there is alot of 20"rs around. Can you provide a source for this theory - I have not seen anything where the Army is replacing the the 20" barrels on their rifles for M4 barrels. A source? How about news pics showing M4d pieces with new looking uppers and well worn finish on the lowers; some of which are M16A1s at that

There's been a few pix of Airforce types with M4'd barrel carbines with original M16 (slick sided-no forward assist) uppers also.

At a recent gun show I asked several AR parts vendors (including M&A and Sherluck) what brand barrels they sold.  Every one of them replied "FN."  I looked at their barrels, and they were all marked the same as I recall, but none of them had the "FNMI" markings I've seen on real FN barrels.

My uncle, who used to be in the surplus biz, had a pile of new FN barrels a few years ago. He let me have one for $25 (about his cost, and I should have bought more). I'll have to check with him to find out where he got them. Mine is marked FNMI, and it's even been used to shoot prairie dogs out to ~250 yards, so it has no problems with accuracy.

Quoted: My uncle, who used to be in the surplus biz, had a pile of new FN barrels a few years ago. He let me have one for $25 (about his cost, and I should have bought more). I'll have to check with him to find out where he got them. Mine is marked FNMI, and it's even been used to shoot prairie dogs out to ~250 yards, so it has no problems with accuracy.

Yeah, I don't wonder why people care where the barrels come from unless they want more.  Bottom line, it isn't going to be a bad barrel if it is stamped and parked.  FN wouldn't go to the trouble to put their  name on a barrel that didn't pass the tests.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Surplus. The Army is switching over to the M4 barrels, and now there is alot of 20"rs around. Can you provide a source for this theory - I have not seen anything where the Army is replacing the the 20" barrels on their rifles for M4 barrels. A source? How about news pics showing M4d pieces with new looking uppers and well worn finish on the lowers; some of which are M16A1s at that There's been a few pix of Airforce types with M4'd barrel carbines with original M16 (slick sided-no forward assist) uppers also.

Also Navy Reserve units such as Harbor Defense Command and probably other Naval Coastal Warfare units.

Not too long ago, the Air Force had to retrofit a LARGE NUMBER of A1s to A2s.  They didn't get money to buy new A2s for such operations as Basic Training, so they had to upgrade the rifles themselves.  When I qualified about two years ago, the rifle I used had been retrofitted-it had the "M16A1" changed to "M16A2" (kind of sloppy), and burst parts installed in the lower, with an A2 upper on it.  

Farther back, the Air Force converted M16s to A1s as they were needed.  I have seen XMs in the field that looked like they had been issued new in Viet Nam (I ain't THAT old!), prong flash hiders and slick sided uppers, all sorts of variations.   Air Force Armorers use the parts they can get to make the rifles work.

The bottom line: the Air Force gets "hind tit" when it comes to combat weapons most of the time, so it is most likely that they surplussed a lot of 20" barrels when they had to make up a lot of M4s.  That would go for spares, as well.

PS.: It would be a very nice thing if the Air Force actually had enough rifles (A2s, M4s, whatever) for people in the field in Southwest Asia to actually have them.  Not gonna happen until the Army and Marines get what they need.  Sigh.  Ok, rant over.

When weapon parts are turned in to DRMO by an Army unit, the unit is supposed to demill them. For example mags get smashed with a hammer, barrels get bent or cut in half. At least, thats how its supposed to be.

Quoted: When weapon parts are turned in to DRMO by an Army unit, the unit is supposed to demill them. For example mags get smashed with a hammer, barrels get bent or cut in half. At least, thats how its supposed to be.

What a waste of our tax money.

Quoted: Quoted: When weapon parts are turned in to DRMO by an Army unit, the unit is supposed to demill them. For example mags get smashed with a hammer, barrels get bent or cut in half. At least, thats how its supposed to be. What a waste of our tax money.

What pisses me off even more than that is when they de-mil Hummers. Surplus hummers would sell like hot cakes with the 4x4 crowds. Instead they scrap them. Think about how much money is being pissed down the toilet just to make sure civilians don't get their hands on "military" equipment. Thanks Clinton!

QUestion for you pros:

Are those FN barrels hammer forged? Or how is the rifling done?

IIRC Diemaco is using hammer forging but how about US manufacturers?

Thanks,
MN

When a field unit turns stuff like rifle parts in to DRMO, they're supposed to be "unservicable."  That means that they are scrap.  Further, up until mid-September, turned in magazines fell under the High Capacity Magazine Ban, so they had to be rendered useless.

Higher level functions turn in brand new materiel in brand new condition.  Lots of it.  So the only waste is <u>supposed to be</u> unservicable and scrap materials.  Check out the DRMS web site for guidance given to organizations generating materiel for turn in.

Please also note the difference between "surplus" and "scrap."  It often costs less to turn in brand new items than it does to maintain them in stock, considering the substantially lower price Uncle Sam gets for items bought in very large quantities, and the fairly high cost of supply technician time.  Kind of sad in a way, but true.