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Posted: 5/26/2017 2:30:09 PM EDT
Geiselle Mk4 continues to exhibit loosening of hardware in spite of multiple attempts to thread lock and isolate. I have used blue thread locker and rocksett. The first mounting bolt likes to let go and get loose when the rifle falls to the ground. The second bolt appears to act as a fulcrum and the forces involved with the vibration of the rail foreward of the barrel nut cause the first bolt to rotate and loosen upon repeated impact. At least that's my thought on why it do what it do.
Background: This rifle is my review mule and goes with me to my range to basically fall on scopes and optics from shoulder height and play in the water. 
I have corrected this issue three times and it still happens. I also cleaned the threads, degreased the threads and bolts, and then applied clean thread locker and waited 24 hours before shooting. Otherwise its a nice rail when it sits in the safe and under normal use (just shooting) it has not had hardware issues. Thoughts? Anyone else have loosening hardware? |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 3:23:10 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
The first mounting bolt likes to let go and get loose when the rifle falls to the ground. Background: This rifle is my review mule and goes with me to my range to basically fall on scopes and optics from shoulder height and play in the water. Thoughts? Uhhh. Stop acting like a private and dropping your rifle on the ground? Has the rail rotated or fallen off? |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 3:24:39 PM EDT
[#2]
@GACS would probably have something to say.
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Posted: 5/26/2017 3:31:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Maybe use a different thread locker. Perhaps vibra tite or red/green Loctite would permanently fix it.
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Posted: 5/26/2017 3:32:28 PM EDT
[#4]
I would contact them. Mine (MK1) takes a lot and its never loosened at all. Bet they will fix or replace it.
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Posted: 5/26/2017 3:55:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uhhh. Stop acting like a private and dropping your rifle on the ground? Has the rail rotated or fallen off? I suspect the anti rotation tabs are gtg. If the screw did fall out (which it would eventually loosen to the point as prior test it rotated two full turns loose before i noticed it) would you want a single bolt to hold the rail in place? Would your irons and lasers maintain zero with one crossbolt? Even if it is reduntant its a bit concerning. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Knife_Sniper,
You should not be experiencing these issues with such light use of our rail. We know guys who use these rails HARD and this is not something to be expected. Threadlocker is not necessary for proper installation and use. Are you sure the screws are torqued down to proper spec, you shouldn't have to go over 8-ft-lbs on each bolt. Just shoot us an email ([email protected]), and our Weapon Techs can help you trouble-shoot your issue, or just replace the rail entirely. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 4:23:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Knife_Sniper, You should not be experiencing these issues with such light use of our rail. We know guys who use these rails HARD and this is not something to be expected. Threadlocker is not necessary for proper installation and use. Are you sure the screws are torqued down to proper spec, you shouldn't have to go over 8-ft-lbs on each bolt. Just shoot us an email ([email protected]), and our Weapon Techs can help you trouble-shoot your issue, or just replace the rail entirely. I will email sales and provide an update with the outcome here in the future. I will retest whatever rail is sent or resolution suggestes and attempt to re-create the issue. Quick question: why the design change from the mk4 to the newer generation mk13 with the bolt displacement? Thank you. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 5:24:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes sir, the rail was installed according to instructions and to the appropriate ft lbs of torque. I will email sales and provide an update with the outcome here in the future. I will retest whatever rail is sent or resolution suggestes and attempt to re-create the issue. Quick question: why the design change from the mk4 to the newer generation mk13 with the bolt displacement? Thank you. WHG |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 5:33:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the first complaint in 7 years of us making rails of anything loosening. Multiple Military drop testing showed nothing like this, including 5 foot tests of the Mlok mounting system. Send in your gun and we will take a look at it. WHG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes sir, the rail was installed according to instructions and to the appropriate ft lbs of torque. I will email sales and provide an update with the outcome here in the future. I will retest whatever rail is sent or resolution suggestes and attempt to re-create the issue. Quick question: why the design change from the mk4 to the newer generation mk13 with the bolt displacement? Thank you. WHG |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 9:05:47 PM EDT
[#10]
 Geissele Super Modular Rail - DROP TEST @knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 9:54:53 PM EDT
[#11]
wooow...love bo\ill..no homo!..that was better than the lower chop video!!
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Posted: 5/26/2017 10:02:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 10:10:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. 
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Posted: 5/26/2017 10:10:59 PM EDT
[#14]
I used to shoot with the OP when he was up here in the frigid, wet-cold Scotland-like shithole that is lately PA. He is a class act, and as a matter of practice engages in comparative testing far beyond common civilian use.
I also have a Geissele Mk4 rail on one of my RECCE class guns, and haven't experienced that. But the appearance and remarks here of Geissele staff speak clearly that if I ever do, I soon won't. Bravo Geissele! |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 10:55:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Damn, I was all set to buy a Centurion CMR but after watching Bill beat on that rail now I have to go back and take another look at the MK4 to decide which direction to go with this build.
Also, what scope was that. It looks like it took a few good whacks befor it went TU. I would like to see a close up of the mount too. That test was fun to watch. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 10:56:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. 
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Posted: 5/26/2017 11:10:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. |
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Posted: 5/26/2017 11:14:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Bill makes fantastic stuff. Well designed, well machined and rugged.
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Posted: 5/26/2017 11:38:52 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 5/26/2017 11:58:26 PM EDT
[#20]
That's pretty good Bill and crew. It appears no one else is having this problem but me.
For reference, here are my impacts. This was a few weeks ago and the same screw backed out two turns on this trip. The same happened today but I caught it at one rotation. Geiselle Rail Thrashing with DIO |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:01:57 AM EDT
[#21]
I was debating on a MK4, after seeing that, I will buy one.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:07:54 AM EDT
[#22]
I've got a handful of G rails and no issues of any kind to date. My rifles tend to get dropped/beaten/used pretty hard regularly, but I can't say that I have intentionally dropped any of them. Have thrown one though, but it landed in dirt.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:45:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's pretty good Bill and crew. It appears no one else is having this problem but me. For reference, here are my impacts. This was a few weeks ago and the same screw backed out two turns on this trip. The same happened today but I caught it at one rotation. Geiselle Rail Thrashing with DIO |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:55:03 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:59:36 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In that video you commented that your optic also had some screws come loose, are you sure you are torquing your screws down to spec? The video that Bill posted is pretty damn compelling. I would argue that Bill was even harder on that gun then you are on yours dropping it onto grass and mud. Why not send it to Geiselle to check out if there is a problem I am confident they will address it. The DIO product ships without thread lock in the mount and was mounted as sent from the factory. I rattled it loose with the impacts. It wasnt until after the fact that i found out DIO doesnt ship with thread lock in place. I would think that both screws would work loose if i wasnt installing them right. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:04:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Bill....
literally threw it... DOWN THE DRIVEWAY 
Love my G triggers, will def be snagging a rail soon 
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Posted: 5/27/2017 2:37:30 AM EDT
[#27]
My Mk8 9.5" has a couple of drops on it. Once off my Jeep fender onto my concrete garage floor (don't put shit on Jeep fenders, it'll slide off) and once at CW:TX onto another concrete shop floor. My DBAL A3 still held zero that was mounted to it; and, when I took it off to swap it onto another rifle it was still as tight as the day I installed it.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 3:59:55 AM EDT
[#28]
This Thread is delivering!
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Posted: 5/27/2017 6:48:32 AM EDT
[#29]
I treat my rifle somewhere in between Bill and you. I haven't had any issues.
Are you sure everything is clean when you installed it? If you live in PA or driving distance to Bill's facilities you should hand carry it there, and get it taken care of. You might even get to see something cool before the internets do. Eta: Op: how cold was that water? There may be some thermal expansion and contraction going on, as a result of the rocksett. And iirc, rocksett is heat+water release. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 7:18:18 AM EDT
[#30]
That video was kind of hard to watch, yet I couldn't stop... Love my 2 geissele mk3's, kind of regret selling my keymod rail. I'm really tempted to jump on one of the mk13/14 or even a 4/8, but I'm not entirely sure I need mlok and really enjoy the feel of the older rails. Here's to hoping I can find an older rail still lurking in the wild at a reasonable price.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 7:49:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's pretty good Bill and crew. It appears no one else is having this problem but me. For reference, here are my impacts. This was a few weeks ago and the same screw backed out two turns on this trip. The same happened today but I caught it at one rotation. Geiselle Rail Thrashing with DIO I'll be looking for your gun next week OP. Make sure you call into Charlie to arrange. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 9:07:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I treat my rifle somewhere in between Bill and you. I haven't had any issues. Are you sure everything is clean when you installed it? If you live in PA or driving distance to Bill's facilities you should hand carry it there, and get it taken care of. You might even get to see something cool before the internets do. Eta: Op: how cold was that water? There may be some thermal expansion and contraction going on, as a result of the rocksett. And iirc, rocksett is heat+water release. Im no longer in PA, but i ate at Shady Maple and surely bumped into Bills extended family. So we are basically almost like family who never met but are connected through our mutual love for red beet eggs and scrapple. You dont need to send a christmas party card this year Bill, i cant make it.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 9:24:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Water was 50 degrees or so. The video was in the tail end of winter when i recorded. Rockset was used on that outing. Im no longer in PA, but i ate at Shady Maple and surely bumped into Bills extended family. So we are basically almost like family who never met but are connected through our mutual love for red beet eggs and scrapple. You dont need to send a christmas party card this year Bill, i cant make it. I'm curious about what's wrong that could cause bolts to back out, so please do send it. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 10:39:02 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. 
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:00:09 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MK4 rail soon to be featured in a blem sale?
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:00:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think we are going to engrave a peep on it and send it to the next Cola Warrior. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
MK4 rail soon to be featured in a blem sale?
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:15:19 PM EDT
[#37]
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:24:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://i.imgflip.com/1ptk0t.jpg |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 12:40:23 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:29:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Dammit!
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:38:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think we are going to engrave a peep on it and send it to the next Cola Warrior. 
A battle damaged rail for me.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:41:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Water was 50 degrees or so. The video was in the tail end of winter when i recorded. Rockset was used on that outing. Im no longer in PA, but i ate at Shady Maple and surely bumped into Bills extended family. So we are basically almost like family who never met but are connected through our mutual love for red beet eggs and scrapple. You dont need to send a christmas party card this year Bill, i cant make it. 
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:49:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:53:17 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, I was all set to buy a Centurion CMR but after watching Bill beat on that rail now I have to go back and take another look at the MK4 to decide which direction to go with this build.
Also, what scope was that. It looks like it took a few good whacks befor it went TU. I would like to see a close up of the mount too. That test was fun to watch. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 1:59:33 PM EDT
[#45]
That is a great video Bill.
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Posted: 5/27/2017 5:02:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVow6hbvKjo
@knife_sniper Bill grabbed a rifle with a 15" MK4 rail and had a little fun with it. As you can see, no screws backed out or came loose. Did you have that video already or did you make it just for knife_sniper? |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 8:14:53 PM EDT
[#47]
I have two MK8 rails on the way, along with another trigger, two maritime bold catches, and another charging handle to go along with my other Geissele collection.
If Bill builds it, I buy it. I buy Noveske barrels, Geissele all the things, and everything else...well who cares. |
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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:16:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think we are going to engrave a peep on it and send it to the next Cola Warrior. It can hold a place of honor atop a sputum-spattered plastic bin in Valhalla You folks completely rock, in so many ways |
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Posted: 5/28/2017 12:43:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Nice video Bill.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 5:47:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Drops onto soft grass and mud and our screws loosen. Right. I'll be looking for your gun next week OP. Make sure you call into Charlie to arrange. When the package is on its way back to me seal it with the shipping label and or whatever you deem necessary to ensure everyone is satisfied that the package remains untampered with. I will take detailed pictures of the box for everyone to see and analyze. I don't want anyone to make false claims that I did something to cause it to fail. I will open it and assemble and retest on my property under camera. It will be a few weeks, so sorry to keep people waiting. I have a 10 day old infant in the house and start up work again soon. Upon re-test it will be re-assembled and the DI Optical RV2 will be the optic being tested and the drops will be typical as per my prior videos. If it holds up, what can i say but bad luck I guess and I will recant my negative opinion of the product here and elsewhere. I will state again that I followed the directions upon installation, utilizing a torque wrench as specified in the instructions. There are many things I like about the Mk4 so I am glad you will be helping me solve this problem. When i got home from my previous range session I re-tourqued to 6-7 ft lbs using a beam torque wrench and applied blue loc tite. You will see the front bolt remains intact and has the charicteristic white ceramic ring left by Rockset. That bolt has not budged and remains in place. The other bolt will have evidence of rock set and loc-tite residue as I tried to correct the problem with threadlocker. I appreciate the confidence in your product you have shown by shooting the video. Until then everyone! |
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