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I just went and tried the Geissele CH in my 14.5" pinned & weld build, which has an Anderson upper receiver, Voodoo Tactical nitride barrel, and Aim "Evo" BCG. This is the rifle that the AXTS Raptor rides in nowadays. It was not sticking as bad as in the 10.3, but still nowhere near a "buttery" motion.
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I've been (not so) patiently waiting to catch these in stock somewhere. Now I'm truly concerned.. Maybe I'll just just get a raptor and see how this goes.
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I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling. Never had to lap in a CH.
You gonna send it back? |
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You oughta call/ email somebody at giess
Show em these pics Somethings up, they make better gear than that. I |
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When's the new LaRue charging handles coming out?
After your review and a lack of response by anyone from Geissele in my thread I'm ordering the Raptor. Thank you OP...! |
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I have a Raptor, Armageddon and several BCM/Vltor handles. The Raptor is awful with gas to the face on a suppressed rifle (which led to me buying the Armageddon), but it Is my favorite in the feel category. I don't really like the feel of the Armageddon, but it's great for gas busting and the BCM is ok in both categories. The Raptor also would not work with my QC10 9mm bolt. Would not charge at all.
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I don't know... You think it's returnable with all that finish worn off? Should I send it back to Midsouth or Geissele? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling. Never had to lap in a CH. You gonna send it back? I don't know... You think it's returnable with all that finish worn off? Should I send it back to Midsouth or Geissele? I would call or e-mail Geissele directly. They have the best customer service in the industry. They will make it right. |
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I have a Raptor, Armageddon and several BCM/Vltor handles. The Raptor is awful with gas to the face on a suppressed rifle (which led to me buying the Armageddon), but it Is my favorite in the feel category. I don't really like the feel of the Armageddon, but it's great for gas busting and the BCM is ok in both categories. The Raptor also would not work with my QC10 9mm bolt. Would not charge at all. View Quote The Armageddon is definitely my favorite CH so far. The way the handle pulls straight back instead of pivoting just feels completely natural, IMO. As for the BCMs, I had a Mod 4 but they aren't ambi so that one ended up on a build I sold to a friend. I have not tried their ambi CH yet. |
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...................and yet keeping in mind what the charging handled does, all the fancy and expensive gizmos seems hardly worth the effort and cost. I have the BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 in all my AR's and they do what I need without going overboard.
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...................and yet keeping in mind what the charging handled does, all the fancy and expensive gizmos seems hardly worth the effort and cost. I have the BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 in all my AR's and they do what I need without going overboard. View Quote Do you shoot suppressed, serious question? |
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Do you shoot suppressed, serious question? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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...................and yet keeping in mind what the charging handled does, all the fancy and expensive gizmos seems hardly worth the effort and cost. I have the BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 in all my AR's and they do what I need without going overboard. Do you shoot suppressed, serious question? No, not at all. Why? Does it take two hands to charge a suppressed AR? Serious question. |
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No, not at all. Why? Does it take two hands to charge a suppressed AR? Serious question. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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...................and yet keeping in mind what the charging handled does, all the fancy and expensive gizmos seems hardly worth the effort and cost. I have the BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 in all my AR's and they do what I need without going overboard. Do you shoot suppressed, serious question? No, not at all. Why? Does it take two hands to charge a suppressed AR? Serious question. I think you missed the point. Left handed charging is not something the geissele has over the BCM since they offer that. |
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When's the new LaRue charging handles coming out? After your review and a lack of response by anyone from Geissele in my thread I'm ordering the Raptor. Thank you OP...! View Quote He posted it 25 hours ago, and it's Memorial Day weekend. . I'd imagine someone from Geissele will be along before long. |
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I think you missed the point. Left handed charging is not something the geissele has over the BCM since they offer that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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...................and yet keeping in mind what the charging handled does, all the fancy and expensive gizmos seems hardly worth the effort and cost. I have the BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 in all my AR's and they do what I need without going overboard. Do you shoot suppressed, serious question? No, not at all. Why? Does it take two hands to charge a suppressed AR? Serious question. I think you missed the point. Left handed charging is not something the geissele has over the BCM since they offer that. No I understand, but unless you're a left hand shooter the fancy ambi CH's have no advantage. A quick check says only 10% of the population is left-handed. I'm not, so that's why the BCM Gunfighter CH works fine for me. |
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No I understand, but unless you're a left hand shooter the fancy ambi CH's have no advantage. A quick check says only 10% of the population is left-handed. I'm not, so that's why the BCM Gunfighter CH works fine for me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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...................and yet keeping in mind what the charging handled does, all the fancy and expensive gizmos seems hardly worth the effort and cost. I have the BCM Gunfighter Mod. 4 in all my AR's and they do what I need without going overboard. Do you shoot suppressed, serious question? No, not at all. Why? Does it take two hands to charge a suppressed AR? Serious question. I think you missed the point. Left handed charging is not something the geissele has over the BCM since they offer that. No I understand, but unless you're a left hand shooter the fancy ambi CH's have no advantage. A quick check says only 10% of the population is left-handed. I'm not, so that's why the BCM Gunfighter CH works fine for me. He's referring to gas mitigation options that the "fancy" charging handles may have. Go shoot a rifle with a suppressor and you will see why a charging handle with gas mitigation is so important. Gas to the face sucks. |
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He's referring to gas mitigation options that the "fancy" charging handles may have. Go shoot a rifle with a suppressor and you will see why a charging handle with gas mitigation is so important. Gas to the face sucks. That was exactly my point, thank you. Give him a break, poor guy says he doesn't shoot supressed. |
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Give him a break, poor guy says he doesn't shoot supressed. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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He's referring to gas mitigation options that the "fancy" charging handles may have. Go shoot a rifle with a suppressor and you will see why a charging handle with gas mitigation is so important. Gas to the face sucks. That was exactly my point, thank you. Give him a break, poor guy says he doesn't shoot supressed. For years I've been going to both indoor and outdoor ranges all over Florida where hundreds of people are shooting AR type weapons and I have yet to see even one person shooting suppressed. Where is it that all this takes place? They are completely legal in Florida with a stamp, I'm surprised I never see them.. |
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For years I've been going to both indoor and outdoor ranges all over Florida where hundreds of people are shooting AR type weapons and I have yet to see even one person shooting suppressed. Where is it that all this takes place? They are completely legal in Florida with a stamp, I'm surprised I never see them.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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He's referring to gas mitigation options that the "fancy" charging handles may have. Go shoot a rifle with a suppressor and you will see why a charging handle with gas mitigation is so important. Gas to the face sucks. That was exactly my point, thank you. Give him a break, poor guy says he doesn't shoot supressed. For years I've been going to both indoor and outdoor ranges all over Florida where hundreds of people are shooting AR type weapons and I have yet to see even one person shooting suppressed. Where is it that all this takes place? They are completely legal in Florida with a stamp, I'm surprised I never see them.. Just giving ya a hard time, man. I've only got a homebrew 22lr can right now, but hopefully my first "real" can will be here soon. My first time shooting suppressed weapons was last year at the Missouri HTF shoot. TATBME and I went along with my son and we all got bit by the NFA bug. |
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I don't know... You think it's returnable with all that finish worn off? Should I send it back to Midsouth or Geissele? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling. Never had to lap in a CH. You gonna send it back? I don't know... You think it's returnable with all that finish worn off? Should I send it back to Midsouth or Geissele? You should see the finish on my BCM Gunfighter. Oddly enough my strike industries charging handle has held up better. |
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I would expect more wear from a "wider" then average charging handle.
I, for one, am still interested.... minimizing the relief cuts can only make for a "stronger" charging handle. For the OP... could you get some "close up" shots of the wear ? And, about how many times did you cycle it ? |
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I would expect more wear from a "wider" then average charging handle. I, for one, am still interested.... minimizing the relief cuts can only make for a "stronger" charging handle. For the OP... could you get some "close up" shots of the wear ? And, about how many times did you cycle it ? View Quote Okay, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "relief cuts". If you're talking about the lack of a bevel along the top of the stem, I suppose you may be correct that it could be stronger that way. I can tell you, though, that every other charging handle I've looked at, whether my own or just images online, has more of a pronounced bevel than the Geissele. So how is that extra bulk affecting function? That is the question. |
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Okay, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "relief cuts". If you're talking about the lack of a bevel along the top of the stem, I suppose you may be correct that it could be stronger that way. I can tell you, though, that every other charging handle I've looked at, whether my own or just images online, has more of a pronounced bevel than the Geissele. So how is that extra bulk affecting function? That is the question. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would expect more wear from a "wider" then average charging handle. I, for one, am still interested.... minimizing the relief cuts can only make for a "stronger" charging handle. For the OP... could you get some "close up" shots of the wear ? And, about how many times did you cycle it ? Okay, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "relief cuts". If you're talking about the lack of a bevel along the top of the stem, I suppose you may be correct that it could be stronger that way. I can tell you, though, that every other charging handle I've looked at, whether my own or just images online, has more of a pronounced bevel than the Geissele. So how is that extra bulk affecting function? That is the question. Sorry... you are correct, the bevel cut is what I meant. Good point.... and I wonder if you could get enough gunk and grime to cause an issue in a filthy rifle. However, I really don't ever let my rifles get horrible. I give them a cursory get 90% of the gunk cleaning most of the time....focusing on the BCG and barrel. How rough feeling are those scrapes ? Have you tried "burnishing" it with 0000 Steel wool ? I routinely burnish new charging handles with quad ought steel wool.... ( the OCD in me ) and have noticed that a lot of the rough feel comes from the upper charging handle channel. No Offense intended at all....but how smooth is your charging handle channel ? Just curious.....No burrs or sharp cut edges at the butt stock end ? ( AGAIN, No Offense ! ... Lol ) I have noticed that little things like that contribute to the overall feel of a AR. |
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He's referring to gas mitigation options that the "fancy" charging handles may have. Go shoot a rifle with a suppressor and you will see why a charging handle with gas mitigation is so important. Gas to the face sucks. That was exactly my point, thank you. The newer BCM charging handles have a raised lip that looks to be better/ wider than the Geissele CH. the BCM still lets the gas bleed off near your face but not bad. The Raptor has no raised lip. I have never used a Armagedon CH. Do the handles move or is more of a friction release to unlatch it? |
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Sorry... you are correct, the bevel cut is what I meant. Good point.... and I wonder if you could get enough gunk and grime to cause an issue in a filthy rifle. However, I really don't ever let my rifles get horrible. I give them a cursory get 90% of the gunk cleaning most of the time....focusing on the BCG and barrel. How rough feeling are those scrapes ? Have you tried "burnishing" it with 0000 Steel wool ? I routinely burnish new charging handles with quad ought steel wool.... ( the OCD in me ) and have noticed that a lot of the rough feel comes from the upper charging handle channel. No Offense intended at all....but how smooth is your charging handle channel ? Just curious.....No burrs or sharp cut edges at the butt stock end ? ( AGAIN, No Offense ! ... Lol ) I have noticed that little things like that contribute to the overall feel of a AR. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I would expect more wear from a "wider" then average charging handle. I, for one, am still interested.... minimizing the relief cuts can only make for a "stronger" charging handle. For the OP... could you get some "close up" shots of the wear ? And, about how many times did you cycle it ? Okay, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "relief cuts". If you're talking about the lack of a bevel along the top of the stem, I suppose you may be correct that it could be stronger that way. I can tell you, though, that every other charging handle I've looked at, whether my own or just images online, has more of a pronounced bevel than the Geissele. So how is that extra bulk affecting function? That is the question. Sorry... you are correct, the bevel cut is what I meant. Good point.... and I wonder if you could get enough gunk and grime to cause an issue in a filthy rifle. However, I really don't ever let my rifles get horrible. I give them a cursory get 90% of the gunk cleaning most of the time....focusing on the BCG and barrel. How rough feeling are those scrapes ? Have you tried "burnishing" it with 0000 Steel wool ? I routinely burnish new charging handles with quad ought steel wool.... ( the OCD in me ) and have noticed that a lot of the rough feel comes from the upper charging handle channel. No Offense intended at all....but how smooth is your charging handle channel ? Just curious.....No burrs or sharp cut edges at the butt stock end ? ( AGAIN, No Offense ! ... Lol ) I have noticed that little things like that contribute to the overall feel of a AR. When was the last time a Charging handle snapped in half in the center? |
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Did you reach out Geissele in their forum yet. They are usually pretty responsive.
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Thanks for a real world, No BS review.
I bet they make this right with you. I like the Armageddon, and I really like the BCM mod 4 CHs. Cuomo won't let me shoot suppressed. |
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I got my three yesterday. I haven't had time to do much side by side with my raptor, but my two and the one I got for a friend seem to be fine in our uppers. Two murs and one BCM4.
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The one I have slides fine in square, keyhole and colt uppers. Odd.
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I have never used a Armagedon CH. Do the handles move or is more of a friction release to unlatch it? View Quote The entire handle itself actually slides rearward and actuates a mechanism inside that moves the latch. Pretty neat setup. As I've said before, I really like the way it works because of how it moves back, the same way the operator is pulling on it. It does not have independent handles that pivot in a different direction than the force of pull, and I just think that's cool that it works like that. I've nothing against the way most other charging handles work because as long as they work it's really not that big of a deal anyway. I should note as well that the Armageddon CH had issues of its own when it first came out. I don't know exactly what the issues were but I believe they had to do with the internal mechanics, not a dimensional issue like with the Geissele. TATBME had one of the Armageddons that had the problem I'm talking about so maybe he can chime in and explain. My Armageddon has been flawless so far and I've easily got over 1000 rounds on it. |
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The entire handle itself actually slides rearward and actuates a mechanism inside that moves the latch. Pretty neat setup. As I've said before, I really like the way it works because of how it moves back, the same way the operator is pulling on it. It does not have independent handles that pivot in a different direction than the force of pull, and I just think that's cool that it works like that. I've nothing against the way most other charging handles work because as long as they work it's really not that big of a deal anyway. I should note as well that the Armageddon CH had issues of its own when it first came out. I don't know exactly what the issues were but I believe they had to do with the internal mechanics, not a dimensional issue like with the Geissele. TATBME had one of the Armageddons that had the problem I'm talking about so maybe he can chime in and explain. My Armageddon has been flawless so far and I've easily got over 1000 rounds on it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I have never used a Armagedon CH. Do the handles move or is more of a friction release to unlatch it? The entire handle itself actually slides rearward and actuates a mechanism inside that moves the latch. Pretty neat setup. As I've said before, I really like the way it works because of how it moves back, the same way the operator is pulling on it. It does not have independent handles that pivot in a different direction than the force of pull, and I just think that's cool that it works like that. I've nothing against the way most other charging handles work because as long as they work it's really not that big of a deal anyway. I should note as well that the Armageddon CH had issues of its own when it first came out. I don't know exactly what the issues were but I believe they had to do with the internal mechanics, not a dimensional issue like with the Geissele. TATBME had one of the Armageddons that had the problem I'm talking about so maybe he can chime in and explain. My Armageddon has been flawless so far and I've easily got over 1000 rounds on it. On my original Armageddon the mechanism would release under recoil, causing it to come right at your face. They realized the problem and released a Gen 2 version, if you had the Gen 1 they replaced it with a Gen 2 free of charge. I'll be loaning DetrhoytMAK a Griffin SN-ACH to add to the comparison. The SN-ACH is my favorite CH so far (especially if you shoot suppressed), but I also have a Geissele inbound for comparison. |
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The one I have slides fine in square, keyhole and colt uppers. Odd. View Quote Quite possible that I just got a rare Geissele lemon. I think that other upper I tried it in is an Anderson, though it might be a PSA, I can't remember. There was not as much resistance in that upper as in my Colt on the 10.3" build, but there was still more than normal. |
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Can't tell if serious... You do understand that the charging handle doesn't go anywhere when you are actually shooting, right? At any rate, the wear looks normal to me. Pics of a moderately used raptor for reference: <a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/user/OR_05Taco/media/4a3bf8d4e4975d48c842d51824ccc191_zpsffzzbj3z.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/OR_05Taco/4a3bf8d4e4975d48c842d51824ccc191_zpsffzzbj3z.jpg</a> <a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/user/OR_05Taco/media/f979e73f7d0ac75e889920bbd56231f7_zpsuanzittc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/OR_05Taco/f979e73f7d0ac75e889920bbd56231f7_zpsuanzittc.jpg</a> Despite the larger bevel on the raptor the wear appears to extend about the same amount "in" on the top of the handle, which is just a function of imparting some downward or upward pressure when pulling back on the handle. I suppose in theory you could have more drag on the Geissele with the smaller bevel but gain a stiffer handle. With other people reporting no problems I would bet you just have a little tolerance stacking going on, maybe a slightly tight upper channel that isn't playing nice at first with the beefier handle. I would also bet that with a little more use and lube it will wear in and be fine. I am pleased as pie with my raptor handles but if I was looking for something new I would not let this dissuade me from the Geissele. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Okay, so I decided to head down to the garage, where there's a small beer fridge and a chair. I needed to be some place where the family wouldn't have to hear the noise. I took a swig of beer, grabbed my 10.3", applied a generous amount of lube, and I commenced to stroking it. Slowly at first, then began a gradual increase of pace. Back and forth, I worked it real hard. I wanted to make sure to give it some real violent and intense action, like I was shooting hot loads. Eventually, I'd cranked on it for so long, I thought it was going to bust. I was tired, but the results were well worth it. Here were my findings: As you can see, there's a hell of lot of wear on top of the charging handle, along the stem. And, wouldn't you know it, the wear is exactly where the other two charging handles have a pronounced beveled edge. There's also a considerable amount of wear on the one side. I wiped all the oil off so that the wear would show up better in the pictures. Can't tell if serious... You do understand that the charging handle doesn't go anywhere when you are actually shooting, right? At any rate, the wear looks normal to me. Pics of a moderately used raptor for reference: <a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/user/OR_05Taco/media/4a3bf8d4e4975d48c842d51824ccc191_zpsffzzbj3z.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/OR_05Taco/4a3bf8d4e4975d48c842d51824ccc191_zpsffzzbj3z.jpg</a> <a href="http://s33.photobucket.com/user/OR_05Taco/media/f979e73f7d0ac75e889920bbd56231f7_zpsuanzittc.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/OR_05Taco/f979e73f7d0ac75e889920bbd56231f7_zpsuanzittc.jpg</a> Despite the larger bevel on the raptor the wear appears to extend about the same amount "in" on the top of the handle, which is just a function of imparting some downward or upward pressure when pulling back on the handle. I suppose in theory you could have more drag on the Geissele with the smaller bevel but gain a stiffer handle. With other people reporting no problems I would bet you just have a little tolerance stacking going on, maybe a slightly tight upper channel that isn't playing nice at first with the beefier handle. I would also bet that with a little more use and lube it will wear in and be fine. I am pleased as pie with my raptor handles but if I was looking for something new I would not let this dissuade me from the Geissele. I thought it would be apparent that I was having a little fun when I typed that entire paragraph. And yes, I agree wholeheartedly that tolerance stacking could very well be the issue here. |
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No I understand, but unless you're a left hand shooter the fancy ambi CH's have no advantage. A quick check says only 10% of the population is left-handed. I'm not, so that's why the BCM Gunfighter CH works fine for me. View Quote I am right handed but prefer the ambi function for manually locking the bolt back. It makes it much easier to simply grab the right side handle with your right hand than having to crane over the top to grab the left side. Run some malfunction drills with one and you'll likely appreciate the difference. I used BCM handles exclusively until I tried a Raptor. |
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I posted a link to this thread there in an existing thread. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Did you reach out Geissele in their forum yet. They are usually pretty responsive. I posted a link to this thread there in an existing thread. I authored the original thread in the Geissele Forum. Just a little annoyed they have not responded to anything since Jan 28th. I think they need to go back to the design phase with these. Generation 2 time.. |
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When's the new LaRue charging handles coming out? After your review and a lack of response by anyone from Geissele in my thread I'm ordering the Raptor. Thank you OP...! View Quote Haha, it's probably not. No reason to super meticulous build a charging handle. My new one came with a PRI gas buster. |
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When's the new LaRue charging handles coming out? After your review and a lack of response by anyone from Geissele in my thread I'm ordering the Raptor. Thank you OP...! View Quote http://www.larue.com/mil-spec-aluminum-charging-handle It works. |
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Are BCM GF charging handles good with suppressors? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I really wanted one. Now not as much. Are BCM GF charging handles good with suppressors? I just ordered a geissele charging handle and will compare to the BCM. |
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I authored the original thread in the Geissele Forum. Just a little annoyed they have not responded to anything since Jan 28th. I think they need to go back to the design phase with these. Generation 2 time.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Did you reach out Geissele in their forum yet. They are usually pretty responsive. I posted a link to this thread there in an existing thread. I authored the original thread in the Geissele Forum. Just a little annoyed they have not responded to anything since Jan 28th. I think they need to go back to the design phase with these. Generation 2 time.. Bill might be too busy shipping orders the same day the purchase is made as opposed to posting on the intrawebz and having multiple month back orders on popular products. (Please don't cancel my pending MBT Mark) Lol |
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