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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:56:27 PM EDT
[#1]
it will loosen back up
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:57:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it will loosen back up Yep... I use an O-ring on the front lug. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 7:25:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Accu wedge
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Posted: 2/27/2015 7:50:55 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it will loosen back up And it won't take long. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 8:31:48 PM EDT
[#5]
+1 on the accu wedge. Works like a charm.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 8:51:54 PM EDT
[#6]
My DPMS has no slop. None. Don't need any quickie fixes.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 11:09:11 PM EDT
[#7]
Leave it alone. Upper to lower fit is nothing to worry about.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:21:28 AM EDT
[#8]
The rifles we had in boot camp all clack, clack, clacked like there was no tomorrow. Our entire platoon qualified just fine with those same rifles. Ever since then, I don't pay the bullshit any attention. Most of the finish was also worn down to silver. That is why I don't clean my rifles unless they need to be cleaned. Especially since we were forbidden from cleaning our rifles during the entire week of qualification.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:26:26 AM EDT
[#9]
I don't understand Arf's obsession with upper to lower fit.
It is completely normal to have some play between receivers. It does not affect function or accuracy. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 5:17:31 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't understand Arf's obsession with upper to lower fit. It is completely normal to have some play between receivers. It does not affect function or accuracy. This. If you are concerned with rattling I think you are in the wrong hobby. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 6:45:24 AM EDT
[#11]
Like magazine wobble in a AK, it's normal.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 7:32:33 AM EDT
[#12]
I like the Accu-wedge. Mostly because my expensive rifle doesn't sound like a cheap toy from Walmart.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 8:48:35 AM EDT
[#13]
Cheap foam ear plugs worked just as well
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:39:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. If you are concerned with rattling I think you are in the wrong hobby. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't understand Arf's obsession with upper to lower fit. It is completely normal to have some play between receivers. It does not affect function or accuracy. This. If you are concerned with rattling I think you are in the wrong hobby. Agreed. 1911forum may be the more appropriate place for you. 
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:50:35 AM EDT
[#15]
If you install an Accuwedge, you may have to trim the base to get the upper to close with just a little pressure. Just take an Exacto knife, razor blade or box cutter and shave a very thin slice off the bottom and repeat until it closes without undue force.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 1:17:25 PM EDT
[#16]
I realize it doesn't affect function or accuracy, but I like a tight fit also. It just feels better when handling the weapon. But hey, take what I say with a bucket of salt. I'm one of those guys that likes to buy two of everything and keep one as a safe queen.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 2:39:54 PM EDT
[#17]
Somebody post that pic of that dude slapping his forehead, lol!!!!!!
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Posted: 2/28/2015 2:54:05 PM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:18:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cheap foam ear plugs worked just as well That is what I use. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:40:20 PM EDT
[#20]
If it bothered me, which it doesn't, id run an o-ring on the front lug as well.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:42:14 PM EDT
[#21]
In a precision rifle shooting at bench for MOA or less groups, anything that permits lateral movement of the trigger or the pistol grip or rear stock in relation to the bore axis of the barrel will degrade accuracy.
It takes no special insight to realize that the barrel, attached to the upper and the trigger shoe, grip and stock, attached to the stock can move independently on a loose fitting AR. You will not find this slop on a bench or long range precision AR at the top of the score list. Sure, milspec is what: 3-4 MOA on a good day. Sure you can qualify with it. Put a match barrel on an upper attached to a sloppy fitting lower and watch what happens compared to one where lateral movement has been eliminated. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 4:52:25 PM EDT
[#22]
I actually prefer a looser fit that allows for easy dissasembly and part interchangebility.
ARs are tools, not fancy china you put in a wooden cupboard display. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 6:03:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a precision rifle shooting at bench for MOA or less groups, anything that permits lateral movement of the trigger or the pistol grip or rear stock in relation to the bore axis of the barrel will degrade accuracy. It takes no special insight to realize that the barrel, attached to the upper and the trigger shoe, grip and stock, attached to the stock can move independently on a loose fitting AR. You will not find this slop on a bench or long range precision AR at the top of the score list. Sure, milspec is what: 3-4 MOA on a good day. Sure you can qualify with it. Put a match barrel on an upper attached to a sloppy fitting lower and watch what happens compared to one where lateral movement has been eliminated. Even though that makes perfect sense it still must be wrong  enough SME on this forum have claimed that upper to lower fit/play has no effect on shooting accurately(accuracy) and it been echoed by the masses, so it must be true.
half the crap regurgitated on here keeps bringing to mind the monkeys/banana and ladder experiment. if everything was left to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" crowd, we'd still be throwing stones at each other. use an accu-wedge |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 6:29:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Some like it sloppy and if that works for them, fine.
I however like my receivers to fit snug. If anything, it will help with accuracy. I can't ee how having play between the receivers would aid in accuracy. There are no downsides to having a snug fit. ymmv |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 7:34:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Just shoot it.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 8:37:15 PM EDT
[#26]
I remember showing my m16 to the drill and asking if my weapon was broken it was so lose it didn't make sense and them I was dropping targets with the irons at 300 m and went WTF this shoots pretty good for a piece of crap. I understand that much play must effect some of the MOA but for a weapon that would be used in the field. It's damn awesome to see a M16 beat to crap work so well.... I leave the play in my ar 15's , only my bench queen do I use the accu wedge
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Posted: 2/28/2015 8:40:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote Historythose don't work on a high shelf lower without trimming most of the bottom off. I've also had good luck sticking some Gorilla Tape under the lug and wrapping it up behind the lug to keep it in place. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 10:06:56 PM EDT
[#28]
I farted around a lot trying to tighten my guns up when I first got into ARs. O rings, accuwedges and the like. Eventually I got tired of dealing with it. It's normal to the platform. IMHO if you're using a lightweight 16" or less carbine wearing a red dot it's a waste of time and money. Drive on. My BCM/LMT rattles like crazy and ive had it printing 1.5" 100 yard groups using an Aimpoint CompM4s and PRVI m193.
Match rifles or precision guns are a different breed of cat I'd guess. Wouldn't know though. I don't own one and it's not on my radar. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 12:35:15 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I actually prefer a looser fit that allows for easy dissasembly and part interchangebility. ARs are tools, not fancy china you put in a wooden cupboard display. A good fit has no wobble, yet permits the pins to be pushed through by hand or a billet tip. Are you seriously contending that true RECCE rifles are sloppy? They certainly are not fancy china. Why would you possibly think that an upper and lower that fit without slop are not easy to disassemble or have parts that are not interchangeable with other AR15s? |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 12:48:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A good fit has no wobble, yet permits the pins to be pushed through by hand or a billet tip. Are you seriously contending that true RECCE rifles are sloppy? They certainly are not fancy china. Why would you possibly think that an upper and lower that fit without slop are not easy to disassemble or have parts that are not interchangeable with other AR15s? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I actually prefer a looser fit that allows for easy dissasembly and part interchangebility. ARs are tools, not fancy china you put in a wooden cupboard display. A good fit has no wobble, yet permits the pins to be pushed through by hand or a billet tip. Are you seriously contending that true RECCE rifles are sloppy? They certainly are not fancy china. Why would you possibly think that an upper and lower that fit without slop are not easy to disassemble or have parts that are not interchangeable with other AR15s? Pins should be able to be taken out by hand... you shouldn't have to use a bullet tip. The only rifle I have ever felt that had no play was my LMT MRP. My Noveske, KAC, my standard LMT, BCM, Colt, LWRC, and some lesser brands all had some play. The MRP felt like it was welded together. But yea... the pivot/takedown pins should allow you to takedown the rifle without the use of tools (including a bullet tip). |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 4:12:33 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even though that makes perfect sense it still must be wrong enough SME on this forum have claimed that upper to lower fit/play has no effect on shooting accurately(accuracy) and it been echoed by the masses, so it must be true.
half the crap regurgitated on here keeps bringing to mind the monkeys/banana and ladder experiment. if everything was left to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" crowd, we'd still be throwing stones at each other. use an accu-wedge Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In a precision rifle shooting at bench for MOA or less groups, anything that permits lateral movement of the trigger or the pistol grip or rear stock in relation to the bore axis of the barrel will degrade accuracy. It takes no special insight to realize that the barrel, attached to the upper and the trigger shoe, grip and stock, attached to the stock can move independently on a loose fitting AR. You will not find this slop on a bench or long range precision AR at the top of the score list. Sure, milspec is what: 3-4 MOA on a good day. Sure you can qualify with it. Put a match barrel on an upper attached to a sloppy fitting lower and watch what happens compared to one where lateral movement has been eliminated. Even though that makes perfect sense it still must be wrong enough SME on this forum have claimed that upper to lower fit/play has no effect on shooting accurately(accuracy) and it been echoed by the masses, so it must be true.
half the crap regurgitated on here keeps bringing to mind the monkeys/banana and ladder experiment. if everything was left to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" crowd, we'd still be throwing stones at each other. use an accu-wedge In terms of most AR-15 accuracy, I think those SMEs are correct. However, once you get into extreme echelons of accuracy, I'm thinking it can make a difference. I'll pose this question, and it's an honest question because there's arguments both ways and I'm not quite sure of the answer: If barreled action to stock fit/bedding is important to accuracy (and I don't think anyone will argue that's not the case), why doesn't upper to lower fit matter? If that barreled action moving slightly on the stock durring firing will degrade accuracy, my thoughts are that the upper moving in relation to the lower during firing could also have an effect. The one difference I can think of is that the rifle on the bolt gun is supported by the stock, whereas on an AR it is supported by the upper. However, in an AR, there is a lot more interaction between upper and lower than a barreled action and stock on a bolt gun. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 5:06:46 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Leave it alone. Upper to lower fit is nothing to worry about. That's how I feel about it. The barrel and sights are all on the upper. Unless it is rattling when you move or something, then I wouldn't worry about it. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 11:12:19 AM EDT
[#33]
I bought quality rifle parts, so I don't have the problem.
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Posted: 3/1/2015 11:33:28 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a precision rifle shooting at bench for MOA or less groups, anything that permits lateral movement of the trigger or the pistol grip or rear stock in relation to the bore axis of the barrel will degrade accuracy. It takes no special insight to realize that the barrel, attached to the upper and the trigger shoe, grip and stock, attached to the stock can move independently on a loose fitting AR. You will not find this slop on a bench or long range precision AR at the top of the score list. Sure, milspec is what: 3-4 MOA on a good day. Sure you can qualify with it. Put a match barrel on an upper attached to a sloppy fitting lower and watch what happens compared to one where lateral movement has been eliminated. You won't find me on the bench or strapped in prone to an AR with a sloppy upper to lower fit.....ain't gonna happen. I like'm tight! A little bedding compound works wonders. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 11:50:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cheap foam ear plugs worked just as well Guilty 
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Posted: 3/1/2015 5:12:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought quality rifle parts, so I don't have the problem. High quality has nothing to do with slop. If an upper and lower isnt matched or a "lucky" fit there is a chance for play. Mil-Spec isnt 100% equal. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 5:21:54 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
High quality has nothing to do with slop. If an upper and lower isnt matched or a "lucky" fit there is a chance for play. Mil-Spec isnt 100% equal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I bought quality rifle parts, so I don't have the problem. High quality has nothing to do with slop. If an upper and lower isnt matched or a "lucky" fit there is a chance for play. Mil-Spec isnt 100% equal. It varies from gun to gun. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 6:41:40 PM EDT
[#38]
the easiest way to tighten upper and lower fit is to insert a loaded mag...when it gets loose again reload.
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Posted: 3/1/2015 7:23:59 PM EDT
[#39]
I understand a little wobble is normal but one upper and one lower I have are insanely loose together, no problems with any other combinations involving the two though.
I bought an accuwedge, not because I buy into the whole accuracy thing, just because it was annoying. Problem solved. |
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Posted: 3/1/2015 9:00:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Some folks see ARs as tools. They may be. Different people see things differently. I won't tolerate sloppy fits in anything, including my tools. If others want to that is fine.
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Posted: 3/1/2015 9:48:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some folks see ARs as tools. They may be. Different people see things differently. I won't tolerate sloppy fits in anything, including my tools. If others want to that is fine. I want my AR's and my tools to be in spec. If the upper/lower combination lacks enough play such that it requires tools to push out the takedown pins, it is likely that something is out of spec. If my reciprocating saw does not allow me to easily change blades because of fitment issues due to tightness, then it is likely that something is out of spec. You can term it "sloppy" all you want, but that is the proper spec. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 12:43:17 AM EDT
[#42]
If I don't intend to separate my upper and lower except for service and cleaning -- I only have one upper/lower, and my storage case is big enough that I don't have to break it down -- is there any reason not to try to get rid of the slop? It's mostly either a coyote, small varmint or bench gun.
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Posted: 3/2/2015 1:20:39 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I don't intend to separate my upper and lower except for service and cleaning -- I only have one upper/lower, and my storage case is big enough that I don't have to break it down -- is there any reason not to try to get rid of the slop? It's mostly either a coyote, small varmint or bench gun. there is no good reason to not get rid of it. A accu wedge will get rid of the slop and still allow you to take it down by hand. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 2:11:27 AM EDT
[#44]
I tried a few accuwedges, and took them out. They did tighten up the fit, but I have a distaste for things on/in my rifle that are not needed. I don't like the idea of a chunk of polymer laying in my lower. Instead I just matched up the tightest lower to my scoped upper and left the looser lowers for my RDS/iron's uppers. I like the tighter fit for scoped use, but see absolutely zero need for it with irons or RDS.
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Posted: 3/2/2015 8:29:21 AM EDT
[#45]
Over here, I'm using an O ring in front, and an Accu-wedge in the stern. Tight makes right ! My 1911s are soooooo tight, yunz need a 300 lb. spring to close the slide ! ! !
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Posted: 3/2/2015 11:07:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In terms of most AR-15 accuracy, I think those SMEs are correct. However, once you get into extreme echelons of accuracy, I'm thinking it can make a difference. I'll pose this question, and it's an honest question because there's arguments both ways and I'm not quite sure of the answer: If barreled action to stock fit/bedding is important to accuracy (and I don't think anyone will argue that's not the case), why doesn't upper to lower fit matter? If that barreled action moving slightly on the stock durring firing will degrade accuracy, my thoughts are that the upper moving in relation to the lower during firing could also have an effect. The one difference I can think of is that the rifle on the bolt gun is supported by the stock, whereas on an AR it is supported by the upper. However, in an AR, there is a lot more interaction between upper and lower than a barreled action and stock on a bolt gun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In a precision rifle shooting at bench for MOA or less groups, anything that permits lateral movement of the trigger or the pistol grip or rear stock in relation to the bore axis of the barrel will degrade accuracy. It takes no special insight to realize that the barrel, attached to the upper and the trigger shoe, grip and stock, attached to the stock can move independently on a loose fitting AR. You will not find this slop on a bench or long range precision AR at the top of the score list. Sure, milspec is what: 3-4 MOA on a good day. Sure you can qualify with it. Put a match barrel on an upper attached to a sloppy fitting lower and watch what happens compared to one where lateral movement has been eliminated. Even though that makes perfect sense it still must be wrong enough SME on this forum have claimed that upper to lower fit/play has no effect on shooting accurately(accuracy) and it been echoed by the masses, so it must be true.
half the crap regurgitated on here keeps bringing to mind the monkeys/banana and ladder experiment. if everything was left to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" crowd, we'd still be throwing stones at each other. use an accu-wedge In terms of most AR-15 accuracy, I think those SMEs are correct. However, once you get into extreme echelons of accuracy, I'm thinking it can make a difference. I'll pose this question, and it's an honest question because there's arguments both ways and I'm not quite sure of the answer: If barreled action to stock fit/bedding is important to accuracy (and I don't think anyone will argue that's not the case), why doesn't upper to lower fit matter? If that barreled action moving slightly on the stock durring firing will degrade accuracy, my thoughts are that the upper moving in relation to the lower during firing could also have an effect. The one difference I can think of is that the rifle on the bolt gun is supported by the stock, whereas on an AR it is supported by the upper. However, in an AR, there is a lot more interaction between upper and lower than a barreled action and stock on a bolt gun. I think the difference is that many people have tried various methods and saw modifier emcee in accuracy or maybe it was so little they couldn't measure it. I also wonder if having the trigger not connected to the barreled receiver matters? Bottom line for me was if that finite accuracy was what I was chasing a AR would not be the tool I chose to chase it with. |
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Posted: 3/2/2015 11:22:53 AM EDT
[#47]
shot this weekend @ 100yrds with Colt 16.1" barrel, accu-wedge and high power scope
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Posted: 3/3/2015 4:14:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a precision rifle shooting at bench for MOA or less groups, anything that permits lateral movement of the trigger or the pistol grip or rear stock in relation to the bore axis of the barrel will degrade accuracy. It takes no special insight to realize that the barrel, attached to the upper and the trigger shoe, grip and stock, attached to the stock can move independently on a loose fitting AR. You will not find this slop on a bench or long range precision AR at the top of the score list. Sure, milspec is what: 3-4 MOA on a good day. Sure you can qualify with it. Put a match barrel on an upper attached to a sloppy fitting lower and watch what happens compared to one where lateral movement has been eliminated. i am not an experienced good shooter but this rifle is a heavy profile 20in with a 3-9 40mm scope on it. im using to up my skills at the longer range stuff. and im going to get a accuwedge. thank you for the many responses. |
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Posted: 3/3/2015 4:28:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guilty Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cheap foam ear plugs worked just as well Guilty Likewise |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 1:04:23 AM EDT
[#50]
.
Once you sling up the slop disappears. 
This was my hand out at the Small Arms Firing School at Camp Perry. Noticeable slop, 9,000# burst trigger (in single shot), and loose handguards. Still scored a 357-06x / 400 to make the cut. http://danpassaro.com/2014/12/23/small-arms-firing-school-2010/ |
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