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I always said if someone's going to break on of those bolts, it was going to be Dysfunction.
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Great post. Sucks that S7 is going to get a black eye over this but maybe something positive will come out of R&D which will in turn make a better gen II Reliabolt. I'm all for nudging 60's tech along.
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Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty.
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Quoted: Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. View Quote |
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Great post. Sucks that S7 is going to get a black eye over this but maybe something positive will come out of R&D which will in turn make a better gen II Reliabolt. I'm all for nudging 60's tech along. View Quote Me too! I think C158 is awesome stuff but it's no secret that even C158 is prone to breakage after awhile (it typically takes quite a long time in an AR carbine. Sometimes in excess of 10k rounds or even more). And, I may have simply got a bad bolt. I inspected my bolt carefully when I got it and I didn't notice any cracks at all. If any gun would break a bolt...it would be an overgassed DD MK18 running suppressed. I'll see what Sharps says this week. I don't think I'll go back to using it even if I get a replacement though. |
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Bad heat treat. There will be more, as heat treating is done in batches. Slick stick dude, I dig it.
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That's exactly what my buddy said at the range as soon as we discovered the breakage. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I always said if someone's going to break on of those bolts, it was going to be Dysfunction. That's exactly what my buddy said at the range as soon as we discovered the breakage. I'd like to see you try to break an LMT enhanced bolt! |
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I'd like to see you try to break an LMT enhanced bolt! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I always said if someone's going to break on of those bolts, it was going to be Dysfunction. That's exactly what my buddy said at the range as soon as we discovered the breakage. I'd like to see you try to break an LMT enhanced bolt! I've always said if anyone is going to challenge someone else to break a LMT Enhanced Bolt, it was going to be Blain. |
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I'd like to see you try to break an LMT enhanced bolt! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I always said if someone's going to break on of those bolts, it was going to be Dysfunction. That's exactly what my buddy said at the range as soon as we discovered the breakage. I'd like to see you try to break an LMT enhanced bolt! I am not aware of any LMT enhanced bolts breaking but they can be broken. Every company that offers bolts will have at least one break. I believe the LMT bolts use an AerMet steel instead of S7, both should be tougher than C158 or 9310. They all require proper heat treat for toughness. And OP, I hate to hear of your bolt failure. Often a gun will still run with one broken lug (if piece is not jammed into extension). Sharps should make replacement, but also they should investigate any failure. I have not broken a reliabolt yet, still mostly use Colt, Noveske, or BCM for my goto rifles. Will watch these reliabolts closer now, mine had a full extractor spring minus the insert. Extraction is fine on mine (so far). |
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Has that MK18'had a bolt get to that point before? Could it relate to head-space between the two guns (if that ome had a ton of rounds through it with a larger bolt head or something).
Can't wait to see what reliabolt says. *I seem to remember the Filthy 14 broke a bolt or something at 6k rounds. But I'd expect the S7 to make it to increase the life of the bolt even in an overgassed gun. |
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I'm interested to know how well lubed the parts were at the time of failure and what type of lube was used.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the rifle was very dry when this happened. |
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S7 tool steel must be up to the task for use as a bolt material, for it's used for bolts in the Barrett Model 99 .50 BMG bolt action rifle.
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S7 tool steel must be up to the task for use as a bolt material, for it's used for bolts in the Barrett Model 99 .50 BMG bolt action rifle. View Quote It's used in the full line up of their .50 bolts. |
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Has that MK18'had a bolt get to that point before? Could it relate to head-space between the two guns (if that ome had a ton of rounds through it with a larger bolt head or something). Can't wait to see what reliabolt says. *I seem to remember the Filthy 14 broke a bolt or something at 6k rounds. But I'd expect the S7 to make it to increase the life of the bolt even in an overgassed gun. View Quote The factory bolt has about 6.5k rounds on it so far. I gauged my throat wear about a week ago and when I received the rifle it gauged .5 on a 0 to 10 scale. It currently gauges a 3.5 I sold the original gun the bolt was in so I can't do any further testing on it. |
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S7 tool steel must be up to the task for use as a bolt material, for it's used for bolts in the Barrett Model 99 .50 BMG bolt action rifle. View Quote 5.56x45mm operates at a higher chamber pressure than 50BMG. That might not matter, but just throwing it out there. There's also a million and one different varibles when comparing the reliabolt for 223 AR's and a 50BMG rifle. Number of lugs, size of the bolt, recoil system/gas system, barrel length, etc. |
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a little oil would of gone a long way View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
a little oil would of gone a long way Quoted:
Great post. Sucks that S7 is going to get a black eye over this but maybe something positive will come out of R&D which will in turn make a better gen II Reliabolt. I'm all for nudging 60's tech along. I typically shoot about 500-900 rounds in a shooting session but I absolutely clean and lube between each session. I don't think it was a lube problem. Plus... the bladed locking lugs and NP3 finish was supposed to enhance the bolt. I'll lay it all out in the video. I suspect this is either a design flaw or poor heat treatment. I won't be arrogant and completely deny operator error but I think it's highly unlikely. |
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a little oil would of gone a long way View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
a little oil would of gone a long way Quoted:
Great post. Sucks that S7 is going to get a black eye over this but maybe something positive will come out of R&D which will in turn make a better gen II Reliabolt. I'm all for nudging 60's tech along. OP stated two posts before yours that he lubed with Slip 2000 200-300 round prior to the failure... |
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Well OP one of the things that has always interested me about the reliabolt is their website states a life time guarantee.
Lifetime Guarantee If any Relia-Bolt is found to have defects in materials or workmanship, SRC will repair or replace it at no charge. You do not need to be the original owner, and no time limit applies. View Quote Interested to see how this plays out. Please keep us posted after you talk to them. |
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Quoted: 5.56x45mm operates at a higher chamber pressure than 50BMG. That might not matter, but just throwing it out there. There's also a million and one different varibles when comparing the reliabolt for 223 AR's and a 50BMG rifle. Number of lugs, size of the bolt, recoil system/gas system, barrel length, etc. View Quote TM 43-0001-27 lists the chamber pressure for M2 Ball at 55,000 psi, the chamber pressure for M855 at 55,000 psi., and the chamber pressure for M193 at 52,000 psi. So, how is "5.56x45mm" operating at a higher pressure? Also, my post was not comparing two specific bolts in particular, it was to show that S7 tool steel must be suitable as a bolt steel in general; referencing Barrett's use as an example of another weapon system using S7 tool steel for bolts. |
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Quoted: So we need to go back to triangle hand guards? Three steps froward and two steps back, but somehow the platform has been pushed forward from a tech perspective. You gotta have failures in order to learn the recipe for success. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. |
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Im pretty sure they got the bolt material and hardness dead nuts on 50 years ago. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. |
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Quoted: KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. |
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KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. LMT and LWRC got it right with their enhanced bolts |
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I disagree. ARP's superbolt has been working great for the 6.8 guys and LWRC's ACB has been purchased (at least in small quantities) by SOCOM elements. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Move on. Stop buying the flavor of the day parts and use proven parts with demonstrated reliabilty. As we have seen from the last 10 years, most of the junk marketed is useless and not for serious use. They only improvements that have been worthwhile have been KAC improvements. They fix the root cause problems and dont add bandaids. KAC has the best non mil-spec solution but LMT got their enhanced bolt right as well... Other than that, every other non mil-spec bolt out there is crap including this, as soon as I saw this bolt I thought it was hype and I'm not surprised with this. I was going to mention ARP. The 6.8 case head width decreases the thickness of the bolt rim pretty significantly yet still has 55k chamber pressures. People push this round pretty hard, and the most common and cheapest factory round has been having swipes and slightly cratered primers which leads me to believe it has higher pressures. I am yet to see a failure of the ARP superbolt. I also would bet that there arn't many 6.8 rifles high round counts though. |
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We must keep this in perspective- it is only one bolt that failed.
Until there is a trend, it just proves one bolt failed. I have hundreds lots of pics of Colt, BCM, etc bolts that failed in this same manner. I also own a couple ARP 9310 superbolts, that have not failed (yet). ALL bolts are going to break eventually- if used enough. The M16 has improved with time, and every change proves failures can happen. Now, if these show a failure trend, I'll not use reliabolts- till then, I will. Change is not always bad. Progress does not happen if we stand on the past -without attempting change. |
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Quoted: I was going to mention ARP. The 6.8 case head width decreases the thickness of the bolt rim pretty significantly yet still has 55k chamber pressures. People push this round pretty hard, and the most common and cheapest factory round has been having swipes and slightly cratered primers which leads me to believe it has higher pressures. I am yet to see a failure of the ARP superbolt. I also would bet that there arn't many 6.8 rifles high round counts though. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: SNIP I was going to mention ARP. The 6.8 case head width decreases the thickness of the bolt rim pretty significantly yet still has 55k chamber pressures. People push this round pretty hard, and the most common and cheapest factory round has been having swipes and slightly cratered primers which leads me to believe it has higher pressures. I am yet to see a failure of the ARP superbolt. I also would bet that there arn't many 6.8 rifles high round counts though. |
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We must keep this in perspective- it is only one bolt that failed. Until there is a trend, it just proves one bolt failed. I have hundreds lots of pics of Colt, BCM, etc bolts that failed in this same manner. I also own a couple ARP 9310 superbolts, that have not failed (yet). ALL bolts are going to break eventually- if used enough. The M16 has improved with time, and every change proves failures can happen. Now, if these show a failure trend, I'll not use reliabolts- till then, I will. Change is not always bad. Progress does not happen if we stand on the past -without attempting change. View Quote hence my earlier quote |
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Thanks for sharing OP.
Did you contact SRC for a replacement? They do offer a lifetime warranty. |
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Just a question not trying to start an arguement but do you guys check headspace when you replace bolts? I had a 7.62x39 bolt come apart awhile back and I have a new bolt but have been lazy about ordering headspace go no-go gauges for it.
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Outstanding.
I called Sharps just now and spoke with a lady and explained I needed warranty work done. Either this does't happen often or this is the first reliabolt that has broken as she was completely unprepared for my request. Once she got her bearings I explained my issue and that I purchased the bolt through another vendor. She instructed me to send the bolt back and that she would immediately send a new bolt out to me today. I found this interesting (in a good way) that they are sending out a brand new bolt with good faith without first receiving the broken bolt. It's excellent customer service, although it could be abused if exploited. So I have a new bolt inbound and my old bolt will be sent back to them ASAP. So far so good. I have decided I will continue using the replacement bolt in the exact same manner I've been using the original bolt. I'll keep the factory DD bolt on hand just in case. I'm hoping that this was just a fluke. It sounds like this was the first time she's ever had to take a bolt back for warranty and I'm sure they've sold thousands of bolts. |
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Outstanding. I called Sharps just now and spoke with a lady and explained I needed warranty work done. Either this does't happen often or this is the first reliabolt that has broken as she was completely unprepared for my request. Once she got her bearings I explained my issue and that I purchased the bolt through another vendor. She instructed me to send the bolt back and that she would immediately send a new bolt out to me today. I found this interesting (in a good way) that they are sending out a brand new bolt with good faith without first receiving the broken bolt. It's excellent customer service, although it could be abused if exploited. So I have a new bolt inbound and my old bolt will be sent back to them ASAP. So far so good. I have decided I will continue using the replacement bolt in the exact same manner I've been using the original bolt. I'll keep the factory DD bolt on hand just in case. I'm hoping that this was just a fluke. It sounds like this was the first time she's ever had to take a bolt back for warranty and I'm sure they've sold thousands of bolts. View Quote Great news can't wait for further reports. |
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Outstanding. I called Sharps just now and spoke with a lady and explained I needed warranty work done. Either this does't happen often or this is the first reliabolt that has broken as she was completely unprepared for my request. Once she got her bearings I explained my issue and that I purchased the bolt through another vendor. She instructed me to send the bolt back and that she would immediately send a new bolt out to me today. I found this interesting (in a good way) that they are sending out a brand new bolt with good faith without first receiving the broken bolt. It's excellent customer service, although it could be abused if exploited. So I have a new bolt inbound and my old bolt will be sent back to them ASAP. So far so good. I have decided I will continue using the replacement bolt in the exact same manner I've been using the original bolt. I'll keep the factory DD bolt on hand just in case. I'm hoping that this was just a fluke. It sounds like this was the first time she's ever had to take a bolt back for warranty and I'm sure they've sold thousands of bolts. View Quote that is outstanding customer and makes me want to buy from them...... |
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Yeah, I sent them this thread and told them I--like the OP--got my bolt in the first batch.
I said that if it turns out there was a bad heat treat done, that I'd want to replace mine as well. Oddly, they said send it in and we'll replace it with one we know has the proper heat treat--I'm wondering if they confused me with the OP (though I clearly stated "him" and "if mine" is in the same batch, etc.). I think if there were any others we would have heard about it--I only have 2K on mine, in a very soft shooting middy, so I expect it would have lasted a long, long time. |
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Quoted: Outstanding. I called Sharps just now and spoke with a lady and explained I needed warranty work done. Either this does't happen often or this is the first reliabolt that has broken as she was completely unprepared for my request. Once she got her bearings I explained my issue and that I purchased the bolt through another vendor. She instructed me to send the bolt back and that she would immediately send a new bolt out to me today. I found this interesting (in a good way) that they are sending out a brand new bolt with good faith without first receiving the broken bolt. It's excellent customer service, although it could be abused if exploited. So I have a new bolt inbound and my old bolt will be sent back to them ASAP. So far so good. I have decided I will continue using the replacement bolt in the exact same manner I've been using the original bolt. I'll keep the factory DD bolt on hand just in case. I'm hoping that this was just a fluke. It sounds like this was the first time she's ever had to take a bolt back for warranty and I'm sure they've sold thousands of bolts. View Quote I wish more companies did it that way, although I understand why they don't. |
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would firing so many rounds in one gun and then switching it to another have anything to do with this? i had always heard this was a no-no...
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S7 isn't the do all wonder material guys make it out to be, AISI 9310 is probably a better fit for a M16 bolt, it's intended use as a high performance critical gear material is a lot closer than S7's forming die use.
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no as long as you checked the headspace (which is why it's a no no) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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would firing so many rounds in one gun and then switching it to another have anything to do with this? i had always heard this was a no-no... no as long as you checked the headspace (which is why it's a no no) but did he?? would headspace issues cause the malfunctions he experienced when he first swapped the bolt? |
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I've always said if anyone is going to challenge someone else to break a LMT Enhanced Bolt, it was going to be Blain. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I always said if someone's going to break on of those bolts, it was going to be Dysfunction. That's exactly what my buddy said at the range as soon as we discovered the breakage. I'd like to see you try to break an LMT enhanced bolt! I've always said if anyone is going to challenge someone else to break a LMT Enhanced Bolt, it was going to be Blain. You got it! |
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but did he?? would headspace issues cause the malfunctions he experienced when he first swapped the bolt? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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would firing so many rounds in one gun and then switching it to another have anything to do with this? i had always heard this was a no-no... no as long as you checked the headspace (which is why it's a no no) but did he?? would headspace issues cause the malfunctions he experienced when he first swapped the bolt? doubt he did but should have clarified that you do this when swapping and most don't which is why it's almost an automatic 'no no' |
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What's weird is Sharpes said they shipped ME a new, replacement reliabolt (with tracking), BUT I don't know HOW they have my address.
ETA: they explained they confused me with dysfunction, but they're still mailing me a replacement tomorrow--since I sent them mine today (doh!). I bought it from MidSouth Shooters for $162.74 shipped on 2/5/14...so I'm a bit baffled at how Sharpes sent it to me. We'll see. -- I had only emailed them saying IF IT TURNS OUT that there was bad heat treatment, that I'd be interested in a replacement--I never said, "Please send me a replacement" or anything. They really went way beyond my expectations (and somehow figured out where I live). -- ETA: the reason I got it was because my sister/bro-in-law are engineers with tons of knowledge of metallurgy (he's Army--she's Army Corp--and both are very familiar with ARs), and both seemed to think S7 would definitely be a superior metal assuming it was made right (compared to the mil-spec material--158 and the other one). I say check the headspace before you send it back; also throw a BCM and see how long it takes you to break that. ;o) |
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Headspace is fine with reliabolt and factory DD bolt. I didn't test it before the malfunction but I did today.
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