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Posted: 7/7/2011 12:07:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lancelot]
So just an introduction to this thread - its purpose is to show off your Block II clone builds; here is a list of some of the common characteristics and equipment that the Block II M4A1s have:
THE Block II Chart (courtesy of Patriot_Man) Barrel: 14.5" M4 or SOCOM contour barrel Flash Hider: KAC NT4 Surefire 4P Suppressors: KAC NT4 Surefire SOCOM RC Rail System: Early Block II M4A1s still used the KAC M4 RIS/RAS DD RIS II in dark earth Vertical grips Tango down battle grip in tan KAC Grip-Pod Rail panels: Tango Down KAC Front sight: KAC flip up in tan standard front sight base (if early Block II with M4 RIS/RAS) Optics: Elcan Specter DR SU-230 EOTech SU-231-PEQ (EOTech 553) EOTech SU-231A-PEQ (EOTech EXPS03) ACOG SU-237 (TA01-ECOS) EOTech/Aimpoint 3x magnifiers IR Lasers: Insight AN/PEQ-15/LA-5 Flashlight: Insight M3 (SU-233/PVS) Insight WMX200 Rear sight: KAC 300m KAC 600m MaTech Buttstock: standard M4 (both older CAR style and newer "LE" style) LMT SOPMOD 
some reference pics  Attached File Attached File
 early block II
 more early Block IIs
Just to reiterate, you don't have to have an EXACT copy of a Block II M4A1 to post your rifle up here, but the purpose is to post pictures of our rifles that we've made specifically to emulate the issue Block II weapon system - if you've got a midlength carbine with an UBR stock that just happens to have a RIS II on it it is likely you did not intend the rifle be a "clone" of the newest generation M4A1, and probably doesn't belong in this picture thread. Rifles that have no Block II components ie standard M4geries with Block I Optics do not embody the purpose of this thread and though they are nice weapons in their own right, shouldn't be posted in this thread to avoid unnecessary clutter. Originally Posted By Augee: The easiest visual discriminator of whether you're looking at a SOPMOD equipped M4A1 or an MWS M4 is usually the identity of who is holding it. If it's a SOF troop, it's probably a SOPMOD M4[A1]. If it's a conventional troop, it's probably an M4 MWS. SOPMOD = SOF MWS = Conventional The SOPMOD program was initially fielded in 1996, and the two have not significantly converged or crossed over at all since then, and there is almost no commonality between systems used in the two. They are separate lines of development and evolution managed by two totally different components (Army and Navy). SOPMOD is run by NSWC-Crane to equip SOF M4A1 Carbines with accessories. There are two distinct "blocks" as identified by NSWC-Crane PowerPoints as the primary source of information, however, there was a "transitional period" of several years in which carbines with items from both blocks were used. Because of a PowerPoint slide that was published (IIRC?) 2006 showing a block labeled "phased replacement," it has become the colloquial term for "transitional" configurations. "Block x" does NOT refer, in an "official" sense to a specific configuration of rifle. It refers to specific modifications (read accessories) to the SOF M4A1 weapon system that are managed by Crane. Colloquially we refer to M4A1s with accessories from the first block of the SOPMOD program as "Block 1," while using "Block 2" to describe carbines with the RIS II, one of the last components of the second block of the SOPMOD program to be fielded. Carbines with the accessories/features of both blocks of the SOPMOD program, but without the RIS II, we refer to as "Phased Replacement." It is important to note, however, that this colloquial classification is generally limited to this thread, and others both here and on other sites that feed off of it. The important thing to understand is that the SOPMOD program is almost always limited to SOF only, and 99% of the time, the "actual" weapon in question will be an M4A1, not an M4. The M4 is a conventional forces weapon system, and is totally separate from the SOPMOD program and SOF modifications, though they were "inspired" by the SOPMOD program, almost every single actual item is different. The M4 is managed by the Army overall through TACOM, though the Marine Corps also manages their own programs through their own directorates for their specific incarnation of the M4. The M4 is a conventional forces platform, and is upgraded through modular weapon system (MWS) upgrades. There are no specific blocks, increments, or generations, and their specifics vary by time period, unit, and MTOE. ~Augee |
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Posted: 8/15/2014 2:48:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryDid you shoot it with a TPT round? |
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Posted: 8/15/2014 5:28:16 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Sorry, I picked up the last one that was in stock this morning.  Seems like they come into stock at random places (Weapon Outfitters, DSG, Kerif's) less often than the damn Taupe KAC BUIS.  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By Tmender03:
Originally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
Sorry if this has been covered recently. If so, I missed it and I'm sorry! What's the availability of the Rlcan SpecterDR in FDE going to look like going into the future? I seem to recall reading that they will be going out of production... Which has put me in clone panic mode! In all seriousness, it's the final major hurdle I'd like to cross to be completely satisfied with my rifle, but I just can't justify spending the money right now. And of course, beautiful rifles guys! partial family photo with the block II http://puu.sh/aSZ8i/7756f2c6ea.jpg I saw them at DSG Arms, FDE to boot. Good luck finding a SU-230 though, those are no longer made at this time. Sorry, I picked up the last one that was in stock this morning. Seems like they come into stock at random places (Weapon Outfitters, DSG, Kerif's) less often than the damn Taupe KAC BUIS. I was hoping nobody saw that one. I'll have the money next week for one, but now they're gone  .
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:17:02 PM EDT
[#3]
Should I buy the cobray 37mm launcher or no? I've been going back and forth about whether or not I should. I know it's mainly going to just be for looks, may shoot some smoke or flares every now and then but that's it. What do you guys think, worth it if you had the money? It's the 9 inch (8.5 actually).
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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:39:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lowonair:
I was hoping nobody saw that one. I'll have the money next week for one, but now they're gone .Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lowonair:
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By Tmender03:
Originally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
Sorry if this has been covered recently. If so, I missed it and I'm sorry! What's the availability of the Rlcan SpecterDR in FDE going to look like going into the future? I seem to recall reading that they will be going out of production... Which has put me in clone panic mode! In all seriousness, it's the final major hurdle I'd like to cross to be completely satisfied with my rifle, but I just can't justify spending the money right now. And of course, beautiful rifles guys! partial family photo with the block II http://puu.sh/aSZ8i/7756f2c6ea.jpg I saw them at DSG Arms, FDE to boot. Good luck finding a SU-230 though, those are no longer made at this time. Sorry, I picked up the last one that was in stock this morning. Seems like they come into stock at random places (Weapon Outfitters, DSG, Kerif's) less often than the damn Taupe KAC BUIS. I was hoping nobody saw that one. I'll have the money next week for one, but now they're gone .Yeah I've been looking for something like 2 years for one, I was always one step behind the ball when they came in stock. They had that 1 in stock for about a week and as soon as I got the money I ordered lol. I will say DSG went out of stock about 3 months ago then got 6 back in stock about a month ago so I wouldn't worry, it seems like Elcan has stepped up production of them. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2014 7:50:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Yeah I've been looking for something like 2 years for one, I was always one step behind the ball when they came in stock. They had that 1 in stock for about a week and as soon as I got the money I ordered lol. I will say DSG went out of stock about 3 months ago then got 6 back in stock about a month ago so I wouldn't worry, it seems like Elcan has stepped up production of them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By lowonair:
Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By Tmender03:
Originally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
Sorry if this has been covered recently. If so, I missed it and I'm sorry! What's the availability of the Rlcan SpecterDR in FDE going to look like going into the future? I seem to recall reading that they will be going out of production... Which has put me in clone panic mode! In all seriousness, it's the final major hurdle I'd like to cross to be completely satisfied with my rifle, but I just can't justify spending the money right now. And of course, beautiful rifles guys! partial family photo with the block II http://puu.sh/aSZ8i/7756f2c6ea.jpg I saw them at DSG Arms, FDE to boot. Good luck finding a SU-230 though, those are no longer made at this time. Sorry, I picked up the last one that was in stock this morning. Seems like they come into stock at random places (Weapon Outfitters, DSG, Kerif's) less often than the damn Taupe KAC BUIS. I was hoping nobody saw that one. I'll have the money next week for one, but now they're gone .Yeah I've been looking for something like 2 years for one, I was always one step behind the ball when they came in stock. They had that 1 in stock for about a week and as soon as I got the money I ordered lol. I will say DSG went out of stock about 3 months ago then got 6 back in stock about a month ago so I wouldn't worry, it seems like Elcan has stepped up production of them. There are a few in the EE including a SU230 Mil overrun model. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2014 8:09:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jellis71985:
Should I buy the cobray 37mm launcher or no? I've been going back and forth about whether or not I should. I know it's mainly going to just be for looks, may shoot some smoke or flares every now and then but that's it. What do you guys think, worth it if you had the money? It's the 9 inch (8.5 actually). Go big or go home! Title 1 LMT M203. 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2014 9:40:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Well, DD just blew me off. I was inspired by a previous post to e-mail DD on Monday to claim FDE ladders which were missing from my RISII FSP box. The customer service lady told me I would receive a tracking number in 24-hours. No tracking number after two days. E-mailed her about the status. No response.
Fuck paying for accessories that should've been included in the fucking box. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2014 10:13:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Give DD a chance , they was very good to me.
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Posted: 8/15/2014 10:21:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lawdog-1:
Give DD a chance , they was very good to me. i would say a week is a pretty fair chance for them to give him a tracking number. if shit ain't in stock, how hard is it to say "sorry, we're out of stock at the moment"? |
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Posted: 8/15/2014 10:37:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glamiskid5150:
Well, DD just blew me off. I was inspired by a previous post to e-mail DD on Monday to claim FDE ladders which were missing from my RISII FSP box. The customer service lady told me I would receive a tracking number in 24-hours. No tracking number after two days. E-mailed her about the status. No response. Fuck paying for accessories that should've been included in the fucking box. PM or e-mail this Devil Dog that works for DD & is an active member of this site, user: Marler5811 He should be able to square you away better than the receptionist. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 8/15/2014 10:57:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ihcnehc]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lowonair: I was hoping nobody saw that one. I'll have the money next week for one, but now they're gone .Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lowonair: Originally Posted By RJeff21: Originally Posted By Tmender03: Originally Posted By PatriotManJSO: Sorry if this has been covered recently. If so, I missed it and I'm sorry! What's the availability of the Rlcan SpecterDR in FDE going to look like going into the future? I seem to recall reading that they will be going out of production... Which has put me in clone panic mode! In all seriousness, it's the final major hurdle I'd like to cross to be completely satisfied with my rifle, but I just can't justify spending the money right now. And of course, beautiful rifles guys! partial family photo with the block II http://puu.sh/aSZ8i/7756f2c6ea.jpg I saw them at DSG Arms, FDE to boot. Good luck finding a SU-230 though, those are no longer made at this time. Sorry, I picked up the last one that was in stock this morning. Seems like they come into stock at random places (Weapon Outfitters, DSG, Kerif's) less often than the damn Taupe KAC BUIS. I was hoping nobody saw that one. I'll have the money next week for one, but now they're gone .For FDE Elcan SpecterDR 1/4x (civilian SU-230), give Ken at KERIF a call at (702) 324-6463 or [email protected]. He had a few in stock a couple of months back and he still lists them as in stock. I believe he has the best price anywhere. These FDEs are limited production runs. Previous run had fewer than 400 units. I believe the current batch is slightly larger, but I don't know exactly how many were made. |
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Posted: 8/16/2014 12:43:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jellis71985:
Should I buy the cobray 37mm launcher or no? I've been going back and forth about whether or not I should. I know it's mainly going to just be for looks, may shoot some smoke or flares every now and then but that's it. What do you guys think, worth it if you had the money? It's the 9 inch (8.5 actually). You're not really going to get the "look" with the Cobray without some pretty significant modifications to the mount anyways. Another vote for a real '203. 
~Augee |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 7:57:47 AM EDT
[#13]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2014 1:35:32 PM EDT
[#14]
I should have listened to you guys... clone obsessions are expensive! Buying a SU-230 tonight!
Anyone remember how I said two days ago that I couldn't justify the purchase? Yeah... let's forget about that. I'll be out my EXPS and G33, but to me the SU-230 is the iconic Block II optic. So yeah, I'll be eating ramen for awhile, but at least I'll have a cool rifle... but that's okay... right?
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:43:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
I should have listened to you guys... clone obsessions are expensive! Buying a SU-230 tonight! Anyone remember how I said two days ago that I couldn't justify the purchase? Yeah... let's forget about that. I'll be out my EXPS and G33, but to me the SU-230 is the iconic Block II optic. So yeah, I'll be eating ramen for awhile, but at least I'll have a cool rifle... but that's okay... right?
Let me know how you like it. I'm currently running an XPS and G33 on mine and have been trying to justify the cost of buying an SU-230. |
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Posted: 8/18/2014 7:08:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Anyone searching for a lightly-painted RIS II?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2014 7:36:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Okay guys i'm REALLY considering selling my black RIS II and re-barreling to a socom barrel then going to a 1.5 / PR look with an EXPS3-0, worth it? or no? I just love the look of the PRs but I'm kinda attached to my Black II (it's my first and only AR so I'm hesitant about changing it up again) Thanks fellas. Love this thread and all the fantastic rifles you guys sport.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 7:50:47 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah:
Anyone searching for a lightly-painted RIS II?
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r249/RTUtah/ARs/blkii_zps51e56071.jpeg Too bad it isn't a FSP or i'd be interested...Probably won't last long, either way. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2014 8:05:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TannerB]
[#19]
I think your rifle looks good.
Pic thread, I was mine was an ftp. Does anyone know how much the front sight would mess with the elcan on 1x?  2014-08-18 18.39.52 by tb5252, on Flickr
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Posted: 8/18/2014 8:14:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TannerB:
I think your rifle looks good. Pic thread, I was mine was an ftp. Does anyone know how much the front sight would mess with the elcan on 1x? <a href="https://flic.kr/p/ovQeY5" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3922/14777439640_af37b4c8d6_c.jpg</a>2014-08-18 18.39.52 by tb5252, on Flickr It's nil and not even worth worrying about. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 8/18/2014 8:41:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RTUtah:
Anyone searching for a lightly-painted RIS II?
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r249/RTUtah/ARs/blkii_zps51e56071.jpeg No, but I'm looking for an EXPS3-0. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2014 6:59:44 PM EDT
[#22]
I'll say this, while I recently just traded off my EXPS, the cheapest place I could find one new was from Fed Tactical Direct.
Their website is a little weird, but I received the optic fast and without any issues. I'd look at them. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:33:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: rgb]
[#23]
Just got this exps straight from L3. Price and process were great. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2014 7:58:27 PM EDT
[#24]
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g283/Hawkeye65/DSC_0128.jpg
Scout light should be coming in a couple of days so the X300 will come off and probably end up on my Kimber. A2 flash hider will be coming off shortly as well, it's replacement is in the same order as the Scout light. After that I think I just need to suck it up and drop $2k on a Specter DR 
I just can't bring myself to buy a new rear BUIS. Hard to stomach the thought of spending $200 on something I hardly ever use especially when I'm about to put $2k into a new optic and I'm trying to get my Mk.12 clone off the ground. Maybe later on down the line when I'm not trying to build so many cool things that go boom. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 9:18:58 PM EDT
[#25]
What's the going rate these days on legit purchasable PEQ15's on the civvy market? One on TOS for .....wait for it....$3k....
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Posted: 8/22/2014 9:24:18 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fivepointoh: What's the going rate these days on legit purchasable PEQ15's on the civvy market? One on TOS for .....wait for it....$3k.... |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 9:51:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fivepointoh:
What's the going rate these days on legit purchasable PEQ15's on the civvy market? One on TOS for .....wait for it....$3k.... I've been looking for a while. Most I've seen fluctuate between $1800 (pretty well used) to around $2400 (almost brand new.) Now, I can't comment on how legit their provenance is since I never saw any of them in person and met the seller, but at least a few looked like they were legit non stolen units. |
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Posted: 8/22/2014 9:51:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#28]
Double tap.
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Posted: 8/22/2014 9:54:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hawkeye65x:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g283/Hawkeye65/DSC_0128.jpg Scout light should be coming in a couple of days so the X300 will come off and probably end up on my Kimber. A2 flash hider will be coming off shortly as well, it's replacement is in the same order as the Scout light. After that I think I just need to suck it up and drop $2k on a Specter DR
I just can't bring myself to buy a new rear BUIS. Hard to stomach the thought of spending $200 on something I hardly ever use especially when I'm about to put $2k into a new optic and I'm trying to get my Mk.12 clone off the ground. Maybe later on down the line when I'm not trying to build so many cool things that go boom. Personally, I'd at least take a look at some of the KAC 200-600m Micro units on eBay. I know they aren't the correct full size KAC rear BUIS, but they're a hell of a lot closer than what you have right now. I purchased my last one on eBay for $70 shipped. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2014 11:32:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Personally, I'd at least take a look at some of the KAC 200-600m Micro units on eBay. I know they aren't the correct full size KAC rear BUIS, but they're a hell of a lot closer than what you have right now. I purchased my last one on eBay for $70 shipped. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By Hawkeye65x:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g283/Hawkeye65/DSC_0128.jpg Scout light should be coming in a couple of days so the X300 will come off and probably end up on my Kimber. A2 flash hider will be coming off shortly as well, it's replacement is in the same order as the Scout light. After that I think I just need to suck it up and drop $2k on a Specter DR
I just can't bring myself to buy a new rear BUIS. Hard to stomach the thought of spending $200 on something I hardly ever use especially when I'm about to put $2k into a new optic and I'm trying to get my Mk.12 clone off the ground. Maybe later on down the line when I'm not trying to build so many cool things that go boom. Personally, I'd at least take a look at some of the KAC 200-600m Micro units on eBay. I know they aren't the correct full size KAC rear BUIS, but they're a hell of a lot closer than what you have right now. I purchased my last one on eBay for $70 shipped. Thanks, I will probably order one this weekend. I can stomach something around $100. Girlfriends birthday is in a week so it probably doesn't look too good for me if I'm spending money on my hobbies left and right and haven't gotten her anything yet... 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2014 2:49:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PatriotManJSO]
[#31]
Got my articulated telescope (AKA SU-230/PVS) today and I love it. Seems like an absolutely great piece of glass.
Getting into this whole clone business, I never thought I'd actually get one. Let alone one with a mil reticle . I'm very happy! I'm trying to iron out some details. I threw on the IUID the other day, i bought it cheap off ebay. Seems a little off in it's scale and it's real shiny. I might toss it and look into making my own. I know a few of you guys have. Also, I might ditch the fake PEQ-15. As much as I like it for pictures and making the whole gun look the part, it seems silly to have a $2000+ optic next to $50 piece of chinese airsoft part. The rifle looks pretty clean without it. Also put the rubberband and glowstick for the photos. Now time to pump the breaks on purchases... recooperate financially... and start saving for a Surefire SOCOM suppressor! 
Maybe one day I'll get a nice camera so I can get you guys some non-cell phone pics... 
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IA, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2014 2:40:47 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
Got my articulated telescope (AKA SU-230/PVS) today and I love it. Seems like an absolutely great piece of glass. Getting into this whole clone business, I never thought I'd actually get one. Let alone one with a mil reticle . I'm very happy! I'm trying to iron out some details. I threw on the IUID the other day, i bought it cheap off ebay. Seems a little off in it's scale and it's real shiny. I might toss it and look into making my own. I know a few of you guys have. Also, I might ditch the fake PEQ-15. As much as I like it for pictures and making the whole gun look the part, it seems silly to have a $2000+ optic next to $50 piece of chinese airsoft part. The rifle looks pretty clean without it. Also put the rubberband and glowstick for the photos. Now time to pump the breaks on purchases... recooperate financially... and start saving for a Surefire SOCOM suppressor!
Maybe one day I'll get a nice camera so I can get you guys some non-cell phone pics... https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f2FFMP6bY2I/U_dmG0KgFKI/AAAAAAAAD4U/fmgcv-1RViY/w487-h865-no/20140822_114714.jpg https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uhMX11hHj9c/U_dsKdQtjcI/AAAAAAAAD54/abZqGu0HJIw/w1538-h865-no/20140822_114945.jpg Nice! |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2014 5:37:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Posting some FSP goodness on a Saturday afternoon
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:23:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Man I love FSP Block II rifles. They look great!
I'm curious why they exist though... With the RIS II non FSP version being so prominent, how did some rifles end up with FSP rails? Was this an incremental solution to equipping rifles with Block II equipment without having replace the gas block? Will FSP rifles eventually get completely phased out? Sorry if this has been covered before... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2014 6:29:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryThanks, I will probably order one this weekend. I can stomach something around $100. Girlfriends birthday is in a week so it probably doesn't look too good for me if I'm spending money on my hobbies left and right and haven't gotten her anything yet... Your girlfriend is a whore. Dump her and spend more money on guns. You will thank me later.
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Posted: 8/23/2014 7:02:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
Man I love FSP Block II rifles. They look great! I'm curious why they exist though... With the RIS II non FSP version being so prominent, how did some rifles end up with FSP rails? Was this an incremental solution to equipping rifles with Block II equipment without having replace the gas block? Will FSP rifles eventually get completely phased out? Sorry if this has been covered before... Most FSP rifles I've seen in use are by USAF SOF and Navy non-SOF personnel. Seems like these are replaced at a local armorer level instead of a HQ type armorer level. Probably don't have the correct tools or parts to do a non FSP version so they're stuck with what they've got. |
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Posted: 8/23/2014 7:29:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
Man I love FSP Block II rifles. They look great! I'm curious why they exist though... With the RIS II non FSP version being so prominent, how did some rifles end up with FSP rails? Was this an incremental solution to equipping rifles with Block II equipment without having replace the gas block? Will FSP rifles eventually get completely phased out? Sorry if this has been covered before... Not likely. It's been posted in here before, but word on the street is that Army SF will be using FSP rails. My guess is they are the "large government contract" which made Daniel Defense halt sales of individual RIS II's. |
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Posted: 8/24/2014 7:35:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
I'm trying to iron out some details. I threw on the IUID the other day, i bought it cheap off ebay. Seems a little off in it's scale and it's real shiny. I might toss it and look into making my own. I know a few of you guys have. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
I'm trying to iron out some details. I threw on the IUID the other day, i bought it cheap off ebay. Seems a little off in it's scale and it's real shiny. I might toss it and look into making my own. I know a few of you guys have. FWIW, "authentic" IUIDs are pretty shiny as well. Originally Posted By PatriotManJSO:
Man I love FSP Block II rifles. They look great! I'm curious why they exist though... With the RIS II non FSP version being so prominent, how did some rifles end up with FSP rails? Was this an incremental solution to equipping rifles with Block II equipment without having replace the gas block? Will FSP rifles eventually get completely phased out? Sorry if this has been covered before... It has less to do with any kind of phasing out of the FSP with the different units/components ordering different parts. The "actual" M4A1 RIS II was actually supposed to be the FSP variant, while the non-FSP was "originally" intended as an upgrade for the M16A4, which is why it has a "slightly odd" length of 12.25", rather than a standard 12" rifle length handguard, or as close to the end of the muzzle device as the CQBR's "MK18" RIS II. As has already been mentioned, previously the units purchasing the RIS II for the 14.5" M4A1 URG had usually selected the non-FSP variant, rumored to be because of the relative ease of installation compared to the FSP variant, though I have no documentation of that (though through personal experience, I can verify that I would agree ), while relatively few of the FSP variants had been purchased by various different units in small buys, making them relatively rare in comparison to the non-FSP variants. However, a relatively large organization has recently requisitioned a fairly large number of FSP variants, so they will most likely begin to be much more common than they have been previously.
~Augee |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2014 8:43:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MattNificent]
[#39]
has there been any T1's or 552's seen on 1.5/PR in the wild??
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Posted: 8/24/2014 11:59:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MNRidesHonda:
Geissele MK1 rail with T1/T2 instead of DD RIS II and SU-231/A combo. I called that 2.5 I built my 14.5 using the Mk1 in sand and call it a 2.5 also but, I'm running a FDE EXPS..LOL |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 12:44:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: gaston4]
[#41]
Upgraded a few things since I posted last for "clone correctness":
Magpul STR -> LMT Sopmod Gen I DD QD Sling Mount -> CQD Sling Mount SF M600C -> SF M600U Troy VG -> TD Stubby QD Still deciding on an optic but I picked up a Acog TA01NSN for a steal so its on there for now. Case is an LBT 
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Posted: 8/25/2014 1:40:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glamiskid5150:
Posting some FSP goodness on a Saturday afternoon http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/_eVoL_/IMG_1471_zps225576d4.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v281/_eVoL_/IMG_1472_zpsc06ab187.jpg Love the rifle, but dude, you need to do something about those wires.
You might consider flipping the RMT switch around, and loop the wires back around it to help tame the wires a little, if you use the other plug, you can keep the ergonomics identical in terms of which button activates the light. ~Augee |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2014 2:04:58 AM EDT
[#43]
Thanks for the responses about FSP rifles guys.
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USA
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:53:06 AM EDT
[#44]
If there is anybody shooting their Block II's beyond 100 yds, what type of accuracy are you typically getting?
Thinking about building a MK12 but if there is not a whole lot of difference between that and a Block II I figure I will just save some mula and get some nice glass and a bipod with QD mounts. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:19:16 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TresArmas: If there is anybody shooting their Block II's beyond 100 yds, what type of accuracy are you typically getting? Thinking about building a MK12 but if there is not a whole lot of difference between that and a Block II I figure I will just save some mula and get some nice glass and a bipod with QD mounts. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:28:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
That's a joke, right? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By TresArmas:
If there is anybody shooting their Block II's beyond 100 yds, what type of accuracy are you typically getting? Thinking about building a MK12 but if there is not a whole lot of difference between that and a Block II I figure I will just save some mula and get some nice glass and a bipod with QD mounts. lol, I hope so. But in all seriousness a Block II is nowhere near a Mk12 in terms of capability or intended use. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:23:58 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By patriot_man:
lol, I hope so. But in all seriousness a Block II is nowhere near a Mk12 in terms of capability or intended use. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By patriot_man:
Originally Posted By secretwheelman:
Originally Posted By TresArmas:
If there is anybody shooting their Block II's beyond 100 yds, what type of accuracy are you typically getting? Thinking about building a MK12 but if there is not a whole lot of difference between that and a Block II I figure I will just save some mula and get some nice glass and a bipod with QD mounts. lol, I hope so. But in all seriousness a Block II is nowhere near a Mk12 in terms of capability or intended use. I'm willing to bet that there is only one, maybe two, posters in this clone thread that can even come close to the capabilities of a MK12. For most here, they couldn't outshoot a 22, much less a MK12 or BlockII. |
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ZWE
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:04:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JimboJones1]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TresArmas:
If there is anybody shooting their Block II's beyond 100 yds, what type of accuracy are you typically getting? Thinking about building a MK12 but if there is not a whole lot of difference between that and a Block II I figure I will just save some mula and get some nice glass and a bipod with QD mounts. When I had a block 2 upper, note that I say upper, not entire rifle build, I was shooting 1 - 1.5 moa with match ammo. With an MK12 inspired.. notice I say inspired again - upper I was shooting .75 - 1 moa with match ammo. The difference of any kind of stainless steel barrel or accurized barrel is going to push greater accuracy with match ammo no matter what clone or platform you're shooting it in / off of. As someone who has half dabbled in both I can tell you that unless that 'clone' factor really makes your pants tingle I would just personally build similar looking or similar railed and barreled uppers with your own choice of accessories and pocket the extra money for ammo. I don't want to be seen as a 'clone naysayer' here as I probably visit this and the MK12 and MK18 threads way too often. For me it's more of a visual thing than a 'do want' thing as I'm civ and there are better choices for me in terms of practicality and affordability. Also note that you can build an MK12 with any great, highly accurate barrel, but for 'true clone' status you'd have to have a Douglas? barrel if I'm correct. So your 'level' of clone-ness also depends on specific brands, not necessarily specific products. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:42:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TresArmas:
If there is anybody shooting their Block II's beyond 100 yds, what type of accuracy are you typically getting? Thinking about building a MK12 but if there is not a whole lot of difference between that and a Block II I figure I will just save some mula and get some nice glass and a bipod with QD mounts. I know it's probably not exactly what you're looking for in terms of "MOA," but the Block II appears to have more than enough "practical accuracy," if you're interested in at all. I haven't done too much in the way of specific accuracy testing, but I regularly set out and ring an MGM Auto Popper at 150 yds or so from non-standard shooting positions and under "stress fire" conditions with my Block II without any problems with an EOTech and 3x magnifier, and out around 100 yds with an IR laser and NODs. The ranges are just a function of what I most frequently have access to for different kinds of shooting, though, and I'd be more than confident taking the Block II out further. Then again, I'm also perfectly confident taking a stock USGI M4 out to 400m + with M855 on silhouettes and steel IPSCs, so it's not really saying too much... FWIW, the Auto Poppers are 14" tall by 2" wide along the majority of the target, and 4" across at the widest point. 
As for the Block II being equivalent to the MK 12... well, the RO921HB profile barrel is plenty accurate - for a chrome lined, button rifled, mass-production grade general purpose rifle barrel. But a precision SS barrel it is not. That being said, when the MK 12 was introduced, it was a pretty good "gap filler" based on the fact that most people believed that the M4/M4A1's 14.5" barrel was not capable of firing out past 200-300m, and the next "step up" would force you into an M21, 24, or 25. Nowadays with end-users regularly pushing the 14.5" barreled M4A1 out to double what used to be expected of it with 7.62MM platforms becoming shorter, lighter, and more reliable/less maintenance intensive, the "gap" that the MK 12 filled is beginning to be edged out. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing to move away from a dedicated 5.56MM DMR platform is a discussion for another time - but for better or for worse, the MK 12 has long since been in decline in military use in favor of magnified optics on M4/M4A1s, coupled with M110s and other SR25 variants and the SCAR-H family, and even, arguably, the M27, though many still love them, and continue to adapt and use them (such as the "Hollands"). On a more practical note for you - Honestly, if you're wanting to straddle the difference between a Block II with pretty much the capabilities of the SPR, you could always simply use a 14.5" or even 16" SS barrel in your Block II clone. Coat it black or spray paint the whole thing, and if you don't tell anyone, aint no one gonna know...
~Augee |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:01:06 PM EDT
[#50]
Would the SF 3 prong flash hider install and function fine with a crush washer (rather than the timing shims) if there is no intention of using a suppressor?
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