Would this be realistic to do with a castle nut? - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Would this be realistic to do with a castle nut? (Page 3 of 3)

Posted: 3/14/2011 12:23:53 AM EDT

[#1]

dbl tap

Posted: 3/14/2011 12:26:44 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't believe in wrenches, staking, or locktite since I'm not a soldier.

I just tighten everything hand tight.

It isn't really a problem on the range. Every few rounds I just check things and re-tighten by hand.

I have a little list to remind me what to tighten every 4 rounds.

1. barrel nut

2. gas key

3. ff rail screws

4. castle nut

5. optic mount

6. hand grip

...

If I ever want to take my rifle apart, it will be real easy.

I am considering taking some of those pesky pins out of

my rifle too, since an interference fit should be good enough for me.

ABOVE: Ummmm, WOW!!! I would rather just put things together once properly and only be concerned about shooting.

I am confused at a lot of responses on this forum. I have worked in a machine shop for about 7 years, and auto shop for about 5 years, and around my grandfather and dad that work on mechanical things all the time. Why are people using a torque wrench to LOOSEN a nut? Why not use a breaker bar for what it was intended to be used. You are using a precision measurement device for TIGHTENING to break something loose?!?!? Ummm, OK!

The Automatic Center Punches are not Prick Punches. Center punches have a shallower angle that is set up to mate with a drill bit. A prick punch is a steeper angle and designed to move metal for staking something to not back off - ie. Castle nut. Can you get by with a center punch? Of course, but you are picking on someone for wanting to swedge two nuts together or use locktite - I would get it right myself before picking on others!

Any of the three methods will work for keeping a nut from backing off. Locktite. I agree to make sure you have the right color locktite - One is good for general holding, and one is stout and requires HEAT. Double Nut. Will work no issue and is a method used on many devices including automobile, motorcycles, farm equipment, and heavy machinery. Staking. Moves metal, and disforms or disfigures the plate/nut. If you are going to put one stock on and never replace it - Great. If not, then do one of the two above. I know the military does the staking method, but the miltary is PERMANENT, combat oriented, and tax payers dollers will replace it. Also, how many bad descions are made in the miltary? A few - I have been in 16 years, and I can tell you A FEW.

RobF

Well said...

You win. Now that's what I call putting it in perspective... Are you a judge? That cat is a skinned mo'fo

Dude points out that a torque wrench is for tightening, not loosening; a center punch is different than a prick punch; and there are different types of loctite, and you're completely blown away?

Posted: 3/14/2011 4:13:56 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Take some pictures for us with the DPMS. Not saying I don't believe you, but everyone on here claims to be a Blackwater, CIA, Navy Seal or SOF unit member of some sort.
If anything it will make all the DPMS owners on this forum got nuts for their rifle.

Its quite alright. This is not the first time someone asked.

Posted: 3/14/2011 4:30:59 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Take some pictures for us with the DPMS. Not saying I don't believe you, but everyone on here claims to be a Blackwater, CIA, Navy Seal or SOF unit member of some sort.
If anything it will make all the DPMS owners on this forum got nuts for their rifle.

Why, because a purchasing agent at some company picked DPMS? In reality there are a lot of lower grade rifles in service. There are also other sites than this one where you can see people talk about 30 year old surplus hand me down Colts working better than brand new hobby guns that a dept purchased.

Posted: 3/14/2011 9:02:09 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wow. I have never had a castle nut back off and I dont use staking or loctite. I just simply tighten the thing on.

Yes, My guns actually get ran too.

This.

If you torque it down properly, it will stay torqued 99.9% of the time.

Whenever I mention this I get the

.

Because it's an

statement. Just stake the fucking thing and forget about it. End of story. Why do people have to make things so complicated and find ways around something so easy and fool proof?

Posted: 3/14/2011 12:04:51 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Why, because a purchasing agent at some company picked DPMS? In reality there are a lot of lower grade rifles in service. There are also other sites than this one where you can see people talk about 30 year old surplus hand me down Colts working better than brand new hobby guns that a dept purchased.

You don't say.....
I want to rescue some of those surplus rifles they were talking about.

Posted: 3/14/2011 3:06:35 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Take some pictures for us with the DPMS. Not saying I don't believe you, but everyone on here claims to be a Blackwater, CIA, Navy Seal or SOF unit member of some sort.
If anything it will make all the DPMS owners on this forum got nuts for their rifle.

Its quite alright. This is not the first time someone asked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/lt557/DSC01498.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/lt557/DSC01943-1.jpg

You get a

for the cool pictures

Posted: 3/14/2011 7:06:35 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Take some pictures for us with the DPMS. Not saying I don't believe you, but everyone on here claims to be a Blackwater, CIA, Navy Seal or SOF unit member of some sort.

If anything it will make all the DPMS owners on this forum got nuts for their rifle.

Its quite alright. This is not the first time someone asked.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/lt557/DSC01498.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/lt557/DSC01943-1.jpg

You get a

for the cool pictures

Just to be safe, George should be properly staked. I'm just sayin......

Posted: 3/14/2011 7:07:40 PM EDT

[#9]

George belongs to a co-workers kid. He takes it everywhere and sends pics home.

That little monkey has been around the world several times over.

Posted: 3/15/2011 6:13:28 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Yep, you are out of commission if this happens. I have seen the buffer retainer bend or break on numerous occasions which will also ruin your day. Most of my lowers do not have a buffer retainer because of this.

If your buffer or bolt group is striking the buffer retainer during the cycle of operation, your rifle is a piece of chit. The only time the buffer should contact its retainer is when the upper receiver is removed.

Posted: 3/15/2011 6:18:48 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Keep in mind that IF the castle nut manages to work itself loose, it may only take a quarter turn of the buffer tube to release your buffer retainer inside the weapon. That would be bad. Take two minutes out of your day and stake the damn thing.

I've only seen it happen once on the range, and once off the range. Its a game stopping event, there is no question about it.

I've had it happen. It will also allow the tab in the bottom of the reciever endplate to jump across the buffer tube threads cutting a "ditch" through them. When the safety detent and spring launch out the rear of your weapon into Neverland it's definately a "Oh shit" moment.

I thought everybody was tapping the detent hole and installing a allen-headed screw? This was the kool-aid flavor a couple of months ago. And it is good Kool-aid; actually a very good modification.

Posted: 3/15/2011 7:08:15 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Keep in mind that IF the castle nut manages to work itself loose, it may only take a quarter turn of the buffer tube to release your buffer retainer inside the weapon. That would be bad. Take two minutes out of your day and stake the damn thing.

I've only seen it happen once on the range, and once off the range. Its a game stopping event, there is no question about it.

I've had it happen. It will also allow the tab in the bottom of the reciever endplate to jump across the buffer tube threads cutting a "ditch" through them. When the safety detent and spring launch out the rear of your weapon into Neverland it's definately a "Oh shit" moment.

I thought everybody was tapping the detent hole and installing a allen-headed screw? This was the kool-aid flavor a couple of months ago. And it is good Kool-aid; actually a very good modification.

And people will go through the trouble to do something like this but can't make two stakes in an endplate?

Posted: 3/15/2011 7:18:09 AM EDT

[#13]

loctite > staking

Posted: 3/15/2011 8:06:53 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
loctite > staking

Loctite doesn't belong anywhere near a castle nut.

Posted: 3/15/2011 8:45:08 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Keep in mind that IF the castle nut manages to work itself loose, it may only take a quarter turn of the buffer tube to release your buffer retainer inside the weapon. That would be bad. Take two minutes out of your day and stake the damn thing.

I've only seen it happen once on the range, and once off the range. Its a game stopping event, there is no question about it.

I've had it happen. It will also allow the tab in the bottom of the reciever endplate to jump across the buffer tube threads cutting a "ditch" through them. When the safety detent and spring launch out the rear of your weapon into Neverland it's definately a "Oh shit" moment.

I thought everybody was tapping the detent hole and installing a allen-headed screw? This was the kool-aid flavor a couple of months ago. And it is good Kool-aid; actually a very good modification.

And people will go through the trouble to do something like this but can't make two stakes in an endplate?

Yeah, if you are going to go to that much trouble, why not drill and tap your castle nut for an allen set screw. Those that continually need to remove the castle nut for whatever, can loosen the set screw, then the C nut, make those changes , retighten C nut, then set screw. There are even hardened set screws with brass or nylon ball ends so it won't damage the tube threads....

Or, you could just stake the darn thing..

Posted: 3/15/2011 9:13:13 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
loctite > staking

Loctite doesn't belong anywhere near a castle nut.

Whatever. I will throw that into the heap with a whole bunch of other worthless advice.

Posted: 3/15/2011 9:14:51 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

loctite > staking

Loctite doesn't belong anywhere near a castle nut.

Whatever. I will throw that into the heap with a whole bunch of other worthless advice.

A weapon that requires adhesive and/or threadlocker to keep it's working components together is a poorly designed weapon.
The AR is not such a poorly designed weapon...

Posted: 3/15/2011 10:21:41 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
loctite > staking

Loctite doesn't belong anywhere near a castle nut.

Whatever. I will throw that into the heap with a whole bunch of other worthless advice.

You do that. And I will continue to do things the correct way along with others. You and yours can continue to find excuses to do things the wrong way and think up new, messed up ways to do things that already have a simple solution attached to them.

Posted: 3/15/2011 11:11:21 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
loctite > staking

Loctite doesn't belong anywhere near a castle nut.

Whatever. I will throw that into the heap with a whole bunch of other worthless advice.

Posted: 3/15/2011 11:41:05 AM EDT

[#20]

I have a silly noob question. I'm preparing to stake my first castle nut tonight. How many of the areas on the nut do I have to stake? All of them or is 1 sufficient?

Thanks

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:06:51 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Yeah, if you are going to go to that much trouble,

So staking is "that much trouble" now?

Quoted:
why not drill and tap your castle nut for an allen set screw.

Because that doesn't change the fact that you still don't want your castle nut to come loose and drilling and tapping your receiver won't prevent that from happening.

Quoted:
Those that continually need to remove the castle nut for whatever,

Please explain why anybody would need to continually remove the castle nut?

It just amazes me how people put in more time and work into trying to avoid doing something right. In the time it takes the average person to respond to this thread to tell us how it's a waste of time, they could have staked their castle nut in place per spec and been done with it

For those of your recommending Loctite...

You think removing a staked on castle nut is tough, trying removing one with a bunch of locttie on it! I helped a friend remove his that he installed with blue loctitte and even with heating the piss out of it, we still had to use a 3' cheat and damn near broke the receiver trying to get that damn castle nut to break free.

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:19:29 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
It just amazes me how people put in more time and work into trying to avoid doing something right. In the time it takes the average person to respond to this thread to tell us how it's a waste of time, they could have staked their castle nut in place per spec and been done with it

For those of your recommending Loctite...

You think removing a staked on castle nut is tough, trying removing one with a bunch of locttie on it! I helped a friend remove his that he installed with blue loctitte and even with heating the piss out of it, we still had to use a 3' cheat and damn near broke the receiver trying to get that damn castle nut to break free.

And it just amazes me how much time and effort some of you guys put into indoctrinate everyone into the supposed only right way to do something. You want to stake your castle nuts?....go ahead. Won't hurt anything. But to pretend that any other solution but your preferred solution is just plain jacked up is silly. most of 'us guys' don't sit around thinking of ways to get around having to stake their castle nuts. They just hear about alternatives in places like these. If those alternatives sound logical, they sometimes adopt those alternatives.

So, to the guy who gave me a

for saying that "staking is the only solution" is bad advice....whatever.

back at 'ya.

Good point on how difficult it is to remove a castle nut if it is secured with a liberal dosing of loctite. Just goes to show you that the shit works. The trick is to not use too much loctite. I dob it on in four places around my RE threads, spin the nut on and torque it down.

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:24:49 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
loctite > staking

Loctite doesn't belong anywhere near a castle nut.

Whatever. I will throw that into the heap with a whole bunch of other worthless advice.

A weapon that requires adhesive and/or threadlocker to keep it's working components together is a poorly designed weapon.

The AR is not such a poorly designed weapon...

Right. And I guess you think that it is a bad idea to apply a threadlocker to scope ring screws or sighting system mounting screws too? How about gas block set screws?

...and nobody ever said that the castle nut requires an adhesive or threadlocker. Torque it properly and you are highly unlikely to see a failure. Stake it, and you are less like to see one. Loctite is another alternative to acheive the same result.

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:30:10 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yeah, if you are going to go to that much trouble,

So staking is "that much trouble" now?

Quoted:
why not drill and tap your castle nut for an allen set screw.

Because that doesn't change the fact that you still don't want your castle nut to come loose and drilling and tapping your receiver won't prevent that from happening.

Quoted:
Those that continually need to remove the castle nut for whatever,

Please explain why anybody would need to continually remove the castle nut?

It just amazes me how people put in more time and work into trying to avoid doing something right. In the time it takes the average person to respond to this thread to tell us how it's a waste of time, they could have staked their castle nut in place per spec and been done with it

For those of your recommending Loctite...

You think removing a staked on castle nut is tough, trying removing one with a bunch of locttie on it! I helped a friend remove his that he installed with blue loctitte and even with heating the piss out of it, we still had to use a 3' cheat and damn near broke the receiver trying to get that damn castle nut to break free.

Airgunner,

You should probably reread my post again in the context of the posts I was replying/referring to....you got my twist on this subject completely assbackwards :-)

Cheers,

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:30:50 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Whenever I mention this I get the

.

I fail to see why so many "operators" want to avoid bending a little metal. WTF?

Same with Moly Grease on the barrel nut. People will go to great lengths to justify using the wrong thing for the job.

You have 1100+ posts in 2 months

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:34:20 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I have a silly noob question. I'm preparing to stake my first castle nut tonight. How many of the areas on the nut do I have to stake? All of them or is 1 sufficient?

Thanks

Just one is sufficient.
The staking doesn't hold anything on, it just keeps the nut from turning and backing off.

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:35:07 PM EDT

[#27]

Look at the mount screw on an Eotech, it says "use no loctite" or something to that effect.

But optics are a different story and are not critical to the function of the weapon.

As for gas blocks, they were originally designed WITH TAPER PINS, not set screws. The aftermarket created the set-screw gas block.

(That said, I have a few AR's with set-screw gas blocks, some of which I machined from solid stock for project AR's. I don't use any loctite and they haven't moved yet)

Gas blocks can get pretty dang hot, so even the high-temp loctite may not hold up.

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:42:15 PM EDT

[#28]

Now that we have reached page six, I'm waiting for the guy to chime in saying that he has tack welded all of his carbines or perhaps
drilled them for a carriage bolt, using a lock washer and double-nutting just to be on the safe side.

Again, $3 prick punch.
One blow from a hammer.

You're done and off to the range or the roof as the case may be.

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:46:30 PM EDT

[#29]

Wow........all this over such a simple little thing.

Maybe we should loctite and stake?

Or will that be the thing that ends civilization as we know it?

Posted: 3/15/2011 12:46:41 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Now that we have reached page six, I'm waiting for the guy to chime in saying that he has tack welded all of his carbines or perhaps

drilled them for a carriage bolt, using a lock washer and double-nutting just to be on the safe side.

Again, $3 prick punch.

One blow from a hammer.

You're done and off to the range or the roof as the case may be.

Reminds me of the guy who replaced his front pivot pin with a bolt+nut+weld and ground the whole thing smooth, permanently attaching his short upper to his pistol lower, because he was afraid the ATF would swap uppers on him and try to screw him.

Posted: 3/15/2011 1:46:26 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Maybe we should loctite and stake?

Or will that be the thing that ends civilization as we know it?

That's what I do. No problem with removing it either.

But I'm a Loctite junky.

Posted: 3/15/2011 1:51:15 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Reminds me of the guy who replaced his front pivot pin with a bolt+nut+weld and ground the whole thing smooth, permanently attaching his short upper to his pistol lower, because he was afraid the ATF would swap uppers on him and try to screw him.

I am interested., more please.

Posted: 3/15/2011 3:01:01 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a silly noob question. I'm preparing to stake my first castle nut tonight. How many of the areas on the nut do I have to stake? All of them or is 1 sufficient?

Thanks

Just one is sufficient.
The staking doesn't hold anything on, it just keeps the nut from turning and backing off.

Thanks for the clarification!

Posted: 3/15/2011 4:52:16 PM EDT

[#34]

Alright... So I just welded my entire gun together and now that solves this discussion.

.

I added a poll to add fuel to the fire... just for the hell of it...

Posted: 3/15/2011 4:59:28 PM EDT

[#35]

Instead of thinking how to re-inventing the wheel, why not just do the proper steps? Torque and stake. Done.

I think the people who have this irrational phobia of staking things don't really understand how stupid simple the proper method is.

Posted: 3/15/2011 5:07:44 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have a silly noob question. I'm preparing to stake my first castle nut tonight. How many of the areas on the nut do I have to stake? All of them or is 1 sufficient?

Thanks

Just one is sufficient.
The staking doesn't hold anything on, it just keeps the nut from turning and backing off.

Thanks for the clarification!

Just make sure the nut is torqued and on there tight.
It won't turn either way after you stake.

And don't get wacky with the punch.
All you're trying to do is make a little dimple in the endplate and flow some metal into the notch on the castle nut.
One square blow is usually enough, it's not like driving a nail.

Posted: 3/15/2011 5:58:14 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
loctite > staking

Loctite doesn't belong anywhere near a castle nut.

Whatever. I will throw that into the heap with a whole bunch of other worthless advice.

A weapon that requires adhesive and/or threadlocker to keep it's working components together is a poorly designed weapon.

The AR is not such a poorly designed weapon...

Right. And I guess you think that it is a bad idea to apply a threadlocker to scope ring screws or sighting system mounting screws too? How about gas block set screws?

Red - scope rings and "sighting system mounting screws" are not part of the design of the weapon. They are add ons.

Blue - the weapon was designed using a taper pinned gas block, not set screws. No loctite required for taper pins.

Posted: 3/15/2011 7:27:38 PM EDT

[#38]

All this thread has told me is that there are a lot of people on this forum who have no business working on any firearm.

Posted: 3/15/2011 8:08:08 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Wow. I have never had a castle nut back off and I dont use staking or loctite. I just simply tighten the thing on.

Yes, My guns actually get ran too.

Glad I'm not the only one.

Posted: 3/15/2011 8:21:24 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wow. I have never had a castle nut back off and I dont use staking or loctite. I just simply tighten the thing on.

Yes, My guns actually get ran too.

Glad I'm not the only one.

I've had it happen to me!
Easy simple fix!!

I also don't buy all kinds of parts and treat my carbine like a Barbie doll

Posted: 3/15/2011 8:33:49 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
I have a silly noob question. I'm preparing to stake my first castle nut tonight. How many of the areas on the nut do I have to stake? All of them or is 1 sufficient?

Thanks

2 is the correct answer, as per Colt guide lines. You should have two exposed caslte nut holes to stake once it is torqued down. Though one may be sufficient, I always do the 2.

Posted: 3/15/2011 8:40:59 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It just amazes me how people put in more time and work into trying to avoid doing something right. In the time it takes the average person to respond to this thread to tell us how it's a waste of time, they could have staked their castle nut in place per spec and been done with it

For those of your recommending Loctite...

You think removing a staked on castle nut is tough, trying removing one with a bunch of locttie on it! I helped a friend remove his that he installed with blue loctitte and even with heating the piss out of it, we still had to use a 3' cheat and damn near broke the receiver trying to get that damn castle nut to break free.

And it just amazes me how much time and effort some of you guys put into indoctrinate everyone into the supposed only right way to do something. You want to stake your castle nuts?....go ahead. Won't hurt anything. But to pretend that any other solution but your preferred solution is just plain jacked up is silly. most of 'us guys' don't sit around thinking of ways to get around having to stake their castle nuts. They just hear about alternatives in places like these. If those alternatives sound logical, they sometimes adopt those alternatives.

So, to the guy who gave me a

for saying that "staking is the only solution" is bad advice....whatever.

back at 'ya.
Good point on how difficult it is to remove a castle nut if it is secured with a liberal dosing of loctite. Just goes to show you that the shit works. The trick is to not use too much loctite. I dob it on in four places around my RE threads, spin the nut on and torque it down.

I can't believe I am responding to this post that sounds like it was written by a 12 year old, but anyway.....
You call it indoctrinating because you don't know any better, and that's ok.
Staking is the way the rifle is designed to go together, it's the way it is taught. Take a Colt armorers course, learn something.
If you decide to be a hack and use loctite, than go for it. It's your rifle.

Posted: 3/16/2011 1:12:47 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
It just amazes me how people put in more time and work into trying to avoid doing something right. In the time it takes the average person to respond to this thread to tell us how it's a waste of time, they could have staked their castle nut in place per spec and been done with it

For those of your recommending Loctite...

You think removing a staked on castle nut is tough, trying removing one with a bunch of locttie on it! I helped a friend remove his that he installed with blue loctitte and even with heating the piss out of it, we still had to use a 3' cheat and damn near broke the receiver trying to get that damn castle nut to break free.

And it just amazes me how much time and effort some of you guys put into indoctrinate everyone into the supposed only right way to do something. You want to stake your castle nuts?....go ahead. Won't hurt anything. But to pretend that any other solution but your preferred solution is just plain jacked up is silly. most of 'us guys' don't sit around thinking of ways to get around having to stake their castle nuts. They just hear about alternatives in places like these. If those alternatives sound logical, they sometimes adopt those alternatives.

So, to the guy who gave me a

for saying that "staking is the only solution" is bad advice....whatever.

back at 'ya.
Good point on how difficult it is to remove a castle nut if it is secured with a liberal dosing of loctite. Just goes to show you that the shit works. The trick is to not use too much loctite. I dob it on in four places around my RE threads, spin the nut on and torque it down.

I can't believe I am responding to this post that sounds like it was written by a 12 year old, but anyway.....
You call it indoctrinating because you don't know any better, and that's ok.
Staking is the way the rifle is designed to go together, it's the way it is taught. Take a Colt armorers course, learn something.
If you decide to be a hack and use loctite, than go for it. It's your rifle.

12 year old. ... very nice. You can't win the argument on logic so you start attacking the person instead. This is the last time I am going to check back on this thread. I have made my points and this is no longer worth my time.

Posted: 3/16/2011 2:18:50 PM EDT

[#44]

Since this site is such a trainwreck...

I don't stake mine or use loctite. I like to keep my castle nut a little loose so I can easily remove it by hand in case I need to change stocks in an emergency.