Over the past 15 years I have used numerous muzzle different flash hiders, muzzle brakes / compensators. A short list of the flash hiders / muzzle braakes that I have used are: A1 and A2 compensator, Sabre Defense long A2, Noveske Krink, Smith Vortex, Smith Ent. muzzle brake, Gem-Tech A2 and Vortex bi-loc, MSTN QC Comp, Surefire 556k flash hider, EGW A2 muzzle brake, Bushmaster Y-Comp and Mini-Y Comp, Bushmaster AK muzzle brake, JP Enterprises “Tank Brake”, JP Enterprises muzzle brake, Levang linear comp, CavArms Cav Comp, Wilson Combat muzzle brake that looks like the Cav Comp, Phantom flash hider, Ops Inc 2 port brake.

Those are just the muzzle devices that I can think of off the top of my head. What I learned over the course of several years using several different types of muzzle devices is that ... (to quote Pat Rogers) “There is no free lunch”.

If you wanted the best flash suppression it generally comes at the cost of extra length (ie. Smith Vortex or Phantom) and would offer very little in the way of reducing muzzle rise or felt recoil.

If you want something that was effective at reducing muzzle rise and assists with quicker follow up shots, generally you have to deal a design that enhanced muzzle flash and muzzle blast (noise) and that borders on being obnoxious and uncomfortable for some shooters.

By design, most muzzle brakes direct the most of the gases and muzzle blast (noise) out the side of the muzzle brake (3 and 9 o’clock).


Approximatley a year ago I purchased a Primary Weapons System FSC556 flash suppressing compensator.  Compared to other flash suppressors / compensators / muzzle breaks that I had used over the years it was a good compromise between performance and not being too obnoxious or loud.

Several months ago I approached Todd at Primary Weapons Systems ( http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/home.asp ) also known as PWS about modifying one of their compensators to be the same length as the USGI A2 flash hider / compensator.

During our phone conversation I had asked if there was a way to modify the DNTC (2.00") to the same overall length as the USGI A2 flash hider (1.75")


USGI A2 on the left, PWS DNTC on the right.  Note how much longer the wrench flat area is on the DNTC as compared to the USGI A2.  This was the area I was looking at modifying.  ( Pic provided by / used with the permission of military moron @ www.militarymorons.com )

The reason I contacted Todd at PWS is because I like the design of their compensators.  In my experiences the PWS comps are a very good balance between:

1) Cost
2) Overall length and size
3) Not being overly obnoxious or loud
4) Perform well

The reason I wanted a PWS compensator that was the same overall length as the USGI A2 flash hider (1.75") was because I have been using a 16” barrel with a mid-length gas system and a standard front sight tower as my competition (run and gun) gun for the last few years and had been running a USGI A2 flash hider / compensator on my competition guns.

The USGI A2 looks familar to most AR shooter and "looks right" on most AR15 barrels with a front sight tower.


Larger version of above photo.




( Pics provided by and used with the permission of Zak Smith www.demigodllc.com )


I really liked DNTC (2.00") and the FSC556 (2.10"), but from a purely aesthetic standpoint both of these compensators look too long on the mid-length barrel with the standard front sight tower.

I liked the Primary Wepons DNTC as it looked very simular to the USGI A2 (with the two rear rings and wrench flats).  The DNTC has a nice, clean, familiar (looks like the USGI A2) look to it.


The only thing I didn't like about the Primary Weapons DNTC was the overall lenght.  To me, the DNTC looked to long on a 16" mid-length barrel with a front sight tower.  Performance is paramount, but we all want gear that performs well and is aesthetically pleasing.

I already knew I liked the performance of the Primary Weapons compensators.  So I embarked on a project that was based entirely on aesthetics.

Having a DNTC cut down to the same overall length as a USGI A2 flash hider has been something I have been thinking about doing since late spring / early summer of 2008, I just didn't know of anyone that could do the work.

Recently, I contacted member gotm4 on www.m4carbine.com  gotm4 is a armorer / gunsmith for a large gun shop on the east coast as well as a 3 gun shooter.  I have admired many of gotm4's projects and custom work over the years.  I contacted gotm4 to see if he was willing to take on the project and if he had the ability to do the work.

After gotm4 said he was willing to do the work, I was able to purchase the DNTC through gotm4 and pay him directly for the custom work, which made this project a little more convient than I had anticipated.  


From left to right (All Primary Weapons Systems compensators): Todd's Tiny One Comp, custom DNTC (work performed by gotm4), FSC556, and FSC556 Quick Comp.


Comparison of overall length.  Left - Todd's Tiny One Comp, Middle - USGI A2 flash hider, Right - custom A2 length Primary Weapons DNTC


Side by side of the USGI A2 flash hider and the custom Primary Weapons DNTC



The custom Primary Weapons DNTC on a Bravo Company 16" stainless mid-lenght barrel


Close up on the Bravo Company stainless barrel



Yesterday I took the Bravo Company stainless mid-length with the custom Primary Weapons DNTC compensator and a Bravo Company standard mid-lenght with a USGI A2 flash hider to the range to do some side by side comparisons between the custom DNTC and the USGI A2.

I used these 2 carbines as it was the best "apples to apples" comparison I could do.  Both guns were made by the same manufacturer, had the same barrel length, same gas system, same buffer weight, same bolt carrier group, same rail system, same stock, etc.


Bravo Company Stainless mid-length with Primary Weapons A2 lenght DNTC



Bravo Company mid-lenght with USGI A2 flash hider


My observations from yesterday's range session with both mid-lengths.  When confirming zero with both carbines under the tin roof sun shade (shooting from a shooting bench, using a rifle rest, and pulling the rifle in tight to the shoulder, support hand pushing the stock into the shoulder), I noticed that the DNTC had a noticable (but not huge) advantage over the USGI A2 in reduction in muzzle flip.  

I also noticed that the DNTC was little louder than the USGI A2.  The only hearing protection I was wearing was the yellow foam ear plugs.  It's been my experience that shooting under the tin roof amplifies sound.  The only time I noticed that the DNTC was louder was when I was paying attention to the sound.  It's hard to articulate, but the noise the DNTC makes is more of a blunt noise, and not a sharp crack that I've experienced with other muzzle breaks and compensators.

After confirming zero's on both guns (and making some minor adjustments) I moved down a couple ranges and started shooting steel from standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone.

The DNTC did an excellent job at reducing muzzle flip and follow up shots were much quicker from all positions.  

Out in the open, I didn't notice much difference in noise between the USGI and A2, unless I was paying attention to it.  Once I started paying attention to it, I noticed that the DNTC was louder than the A2, but not by a huge margin.  That being said each person is a little different as to how sensitive they are to noise, so your milage may vary.

Overall, I am impressed with both the performance and the aesthetics of the Primary Weapons custom DNTC compensator.  

Thanks for the run down Jeff!

So how has it impacted your results on paper? Any noticeable changes in group size? Does it have a load it prefers?

You had gotm4 modify a DNTC for you?  Very cool.  He does awesome work.






I have never seen a muzzle device effect group size (unless the muzzle device was over torqued) or have a load that makes a noticable difference in group size.  It's common for a barrel to shoot exceptionally well with one load, average with another load, and not very well with another load.  

Outstanding performance (reduction in muzzle rise), small size, just slightly louder than the A2 flash hider (but not by a wide margin....and not anything that anyone would consider offensive), aestetically pleasing (at least to me), and affordable.  What more could you ask for.........I'll have to let you put some rounds down range with it and let you form your own opinion  

Me? Actually shoot a gun? Hey, this is the internet.

Can't wait.

The AR has muzzle rise.  Good stance, properly shouldering the rifle, etc. can reduce muzzle rise to a certain extent.  Shoot a gun with a DNTC (or other muzzle brake) and a gun with a flash hider, side by side, not matter your stance / shoulder position / etc. you will notice the muzzle brake controls the muzzle rise much better.

When shooting from non-conventional / hasty / improvised positions, you can't always get a rock solid position.


There is a reason EVERY professional 3-gun / action rifle shooter uses a muzzle brake .... faster follow up shots .... which comes from reduced muzzle rise.

Wrong


Recoil: in common everyday language, is considered the backward kick or force produced by a gun when it is fired. In more precise scientific terms, this force is equal to the time derivative of the backward momentum resulting when a gun is fired.

The backward momentum is equal to the mass of the gun times reverse velocity. This backward momentum is equal, by the law of conservation of momentum, to the forward momentum of the ejecta of the gun (the projectile(s), wad, sabot, propellant gasses, etc.). Provided that enough information is known about the mass and velocity of the ejecta, it is possible to calculate its momentum and thus the recoil. In practice, however, it is often easier simply to measure the recoil force directly, such as with a ballistic pendulum.



Muzzle Rise: Vertical movement of a firearm's muzzle upon discharge



The .223 / 5.56 doesn't have a lot of recoil, thus muzzle brakes / compensators on AR15's are designed to reduce muzzle rise for faster follow up shots.  

Muzzle Brakes / Compensators on large bore hunting guns (where recoil is more of a factor) are designed to reduce felt recoil and reduce muzzle rise.

Click on the link below and then click on "Beta C Comparison" under Demo Video:
http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=27&idcategory=2


Note how much muzzle rise the A2 flash hider has as compared to the DNTC.


Firing the DNTC one handed, stock is not in the shoulder.....note the lack of "muzzle rise":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9JGExP4hpU&feature=related

Skillshot,



I have tried to keep the conversation professional and productive.  There is no need to call people (me or anyone else) names.  If you have something professional / productive to add, please do so.  You can take the name calling and condesending attitude somewhere else.


What is your frame of reference and shooting background?

This thread is meant to be informative not some battle about where muzzle rise comes from.
The point of the post was to discuss the comp itself.
Furthermore I do not think Jeff needs to explain himself nor his background to us...

As a 3 gunner I can tell you, no matter how many points of contact I have with the rifle during a match (and I shoot some big ones... L3G, Ironman...) there IS some muzzle rise whether its determinable is another issue.

I'd like to see (IN ANOTHER THREAD NOT THIS ONE) where your getting this notion of "if held perfectly " no rise exists, as that whats your giving the impression of when you say "Yes, ARs do have muzzle rise. If you are not holding them properly."
Read here, best shooters in the comp/practical world do:
www.brianenos.com


Now back on topic...

Rockin' the gotm4 custom PWS DTNC at a recent rifle match:

Nice FSC556 .......... Might want to read the thread ........ The review was about a DTNC that gotm4 cut down for me to be the same overall length as the USGI A2 flash hider.

A couple more pics of the custom PWS DNTC (Primary Weapons System - Dave Neth Tactical Comp)





Last week I attented a 3 day SWAT Carbine / Pistol course, instructed by Dave Neth.  Good dude, awesome shooter, and solid instructor.