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Posted: 9/13/2008 12:11:12 PM EDT
Took both AR's to the range today and tried out the Hornady 5.56 rounds I picked up from my local Cabela's. Previously there was another guy here that had a mag "go boom" with these rounds.
My problem was a little different. Blown primers! 5 out of 20 had blown primers. I didn't even notice until one primer ejected with the casing. Shortly after, I had a FTF and then the trigger wouldn't work. Trigger woudln't move unless the selector was pushed into Safety then back to fire. Damn primers were getting wedged into the fire control group and locking up the trigger. I got 4 primers out at the range, now I have to take apart the FCG to find the last one sinse the trigger randomly locks up.  Now I have to wait till Mon and see if Hornady will take back the 30 rounds I have left and the other three boxes of 50. I'd be willing to bet the lot numbers are the same.  Yes, my camera sucks! |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 12:14:08 PM EDT
[#1]
This sure does not look very good.
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Posted: 9/13/2008 6:18:29 PM EDT
[#2]
Did it do it with both ARs?
What make ARs was it? Are they marked .223 or 5.56? |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 6:30:45 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 9/13/2008 6:57:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Should have used the DPMS receiver rug. Prevents blown primers from jamming your FCG.
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Posted: 9/13/2008 7:02:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Hot loads or loose primers?
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Posted: 9/13/2008 7:03:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Interesting. [runs over to DPMS...] |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 7:08:28 PM EDT
[#7]
+1 |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 10:00:38 PM EDT
[#8]
I didn't know that Cabela's sold 5.56 Hornady ammo.
Is the product number on the box that the ammo came in 8126N? If so, could you provide a lot number? |
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:02:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Wow, exact same thing happened to me with the XM192 ammo, except I was shooting 5.56 in a .223 chambered rifle. Major Jammage.
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Posted: 9/13/2008 11:16:40 PM EDT
[#10]
this happened to me as well with Hornady 75gr BTHP rounds
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Posted: 9/14/2008 3:59:08 AM EDT
[#11]
I read some posts on another forum a couple of years ago. Similar issues with Radway Green ammo in one of two AR's a guy in Indiana owned. They finally determined it was a headspace issue (.223 vs. 5.56 ???)
Also saw those little rubber/plastic primer block thingie's in cheaper than dirt. Apparently there are different versions depending on whether you have a stock or match trigger. If this is enough of a problem that companies are making/selling these items does it mean this is becoming a widespread problem in the last 2 or 3 years (vs. the first 40 years the AR15/M16 were in use?) |
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Posted: 9/14/2008 4:41:07 AM EDT
[#12]
The box is labeled as:
Hornady #80285 5.56 NATO 60gr SP W/C Law Enforcement Lot# 3080599 These were reported to be over stock for the KY troopers. Cabelas doesn't normally stock them, they just threw a few cases on the shelf. The RRA middy was the one that suffered the trigger lock up. It's 5.56 chambered just like the STAG. I fired maybe 2 rounds through the stag without issues, but then again I haven't dug around in the STAG FCG yet. I have put around 100rds of the Winchester 5.56 through the RRA without any issues, so I doubt it's the rifle. I'll look into the DPMS rugs. I'm going to have to gut the FCG to find the damn primer that is still stuck in there. I plan on doing teh 4-40 set screw mod anyway, so this just sped up that process. |
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Posted: 9/14/2008 5:07:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Are you sure your rifles have a 5.56 chamber??? Alot of builders today advertise their builds as having a 5.56 chamber when they do not, This could be what happened here, Or possibily this lot of ammo is overloaded and possibly dangerous to shoot I'd contact Hornady ASAP, and send them the pics you posted....A quick check of the "Chart" shows the RRA does indeed have a 5.56 chamber, This leads me to believe that you either have a headpace problem(which I kinda doubt, but, i'd get it checked anyway) or there is something wrong with the ammo itself...The primers should not be blown out, something is seriously wrong here. Get the headspace checked on the rifles used, if that's OK then contact Hornady ASAP they need to know about this.
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Posted: 9/14/2008 5:15:16 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 9/14/2008 5:23:00 AM EDT
[#15]
RRA advertises this middy as .223/5.56 and I believe only offers the .223 only chamber on their varmitter models. I may have to send them the rifle as I don't feel like tearing apart the upper if my micrometer can't get into the chamber to measure it. Monday I'll call RRA as well and see if they can verify if the upper is .223/5.56. Edit to the count. I realize now that I had two boxes of this stuff in 4 Pmags. Unloading the mags I realize this. Each had 25 rounds in it, and I have 8 unfired. So out of the box of 50, 42 were used and 5 out of those had the bad primers. Still crappy odds. |
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Posted: 9/14/2008 12:27:50 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 9/14/2008 12:45:15 PM EDT
[#17]
That would be close to the truth. I picked up some UMC before this and some of them spec'd out as too long and two of the ones that were withing spec ended up pushing back into the cases at the range. I have a pic of that as well somewhere. 
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Posted: 9/14/2008 1:24:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Could be a couple of things, bad ammo, tight chamber that's not really a 5.56. Another thing it could be is a carbon ring that's formed just in front of the throat/leade area.
Give your barrel a good cleaning. Use a good carbon cutting cleaner and/or some IOSSO bore paste or JB. Short stroke through the throat area with a tight patch and make sure it is absolutely spotless and cleaned down to the bare metal/chrome. Alternate with a bronze brush and scrub the area. Don't assume the area is clean unless you've been pretty aggressive previously -- some solvents just end up cleaning around the ring, but the ring remains. Get that area clean. Some powders are worse than others in this regard. Even if you are one the guys who doesn't clean that often and subscribes to the "just keep lubing it" theory, it pays to ensure your locking lug area,chamber, and the first couple of inches of the bore are kept clean. JMHO. |
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Posted: 9/15/2008 2:48:40 PM EDT
[#19]
Update (sort of)
I contacted RRA and they stated that I misread the site. All their barrels are 5.56. I didn't realize the Wylde chambering is still 5.56. I contacted Hornady and I am sending them the 3 full boxes and the partial of the 4th including the cases and loose spent primers. They will look them over. I clean my rifles after every trip to the range. To me it's therapeutic and that's just the way I was brought up. I scrub down the chamber with Hobbes solvent then CPL then run a bore snake through a few times. The bolt is equally clean. The casings show no sign of deformation at all that I can see. So, being paranoid, do I save at least one of the casing and a loose primer for myself? I had planned on putting it with my growing collection of bad ammo. It can go with my pushed back, lucky never ignited UMC round 
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Posted: 9/15/2008 3:09:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Interesting doo dad. |
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Posted: 9/15/2008 3:30:03 PM EDT
[#21]
I think your doing everything needed and I am betting it's going to be a problem with the Ammo. and not your rifle. 
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Posted: 9/15/2008 3:52:27 PM EDT
[#22]
I should state that this thread is in no way shape or form a slander to Hornady. These folks make damn fine rounds and I have used them and recommended them to others for years.
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Posted: 9/20/2008 8:24:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Any update?
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Posted: 9/20/2008 11:12:38 AM EDT
[#24]
+1 |
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Posted: 9/20/2008 11:35:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Unless you are a LEO you are not even qualified to be shooting Hornady's much ballyhooed 5.56 TAP ammo. They will not replace it with 5.56 for a lowly civilian. This is not the first case of Hornady TAP ammo popping primers. There was a lot of the 8126N doing this about a year back.
I guess if you are going to shoot 5.56 TAP you need to be a LEO AND you need to be very proficient at clearance drills. We don't know about this batch for sure, yet but it does seem strange that a "contract overrun" is coincidentally turning up defective. It may be that the marketing department at Hornady, with the F*** civilians policy, isn't the only one that needs to be looked at. QC is suspect now too. |
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Posted: 9/20/2008 12:04:19 PM EDT
[#26]
I sent the ammo back mid last week so I haven't heard from them yet.
Technically this isn't TAP ammo. It's their SP stuff and fairly cheap at $23.95 for 50. If I'd have bought TAP and it had this issue I'd be pissed! |
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Posted: 9/20/2008 12:08:53 PM EDT
[#27]
Interesting, but that wouldn't prevent a primer from getting stuck somewhere in the action. |
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Posted: 9/20/2008 12:24:12 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm still considering getting those. Most of the problematic primers were wedged under the trigger, so that rug may have kept me shooting longer. What killed it for me was a small piece of primer that wedged itself into the FCG and couldn't be removed until disassembled. |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 9:32:21 AM EDT
[#29]
What was the update on this ammo? Cause i'm having the same issues with this stuff from cabelas
Hornady #8025 5.56 nato 60 gr SP W/C Law Enforcement Lot #3080599 |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 9:35:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Link to DPMS receiver rug Interesting, but that wouldn't prevent a primer from getting stuck somewhere in the action. I got one stock behind my gas key one time. Had to disassemble the rifle down to removing the castle nut and buffer tube to get it functioning again. It was basically a fully disabling malfunction. |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 9:48:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
What was the update on this ammo? Cause i'm having the same issues with this stuff from cabelas Hornady #8025 5.56 nato 60 gr SP W/C Law Enforcement Lot #3080599 That's why ol' Uni-Vibe always says, avoid the hi-tech, lo-drag, tacticool, hi-dollar LEO stuff for self defense . . . stick with the tried and true rounds that were designed for the AR . . . . LC XM193 or Winchester Q-loads. |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 10:04:04 AM EDT
[#32]
i have never had a primer blowout that frequently, much less 25% out of one box.
are the primer pockets crimped on this ammo? |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 10:36:22 AM EDT
[#33]
There is nothing tacti-cool about this ammo.
People are not buying this stuff for self defense. It's for range ammo. High dollar...lol This stuff is $20.00 for a box of 50 rounds. Quoted:
Quoted:
What was the update on this ammo? Cause i'm having the same issues with this stuff from cabelas Hornady #8025 5.56 nato 60 gr SP W/C Law Enforcement Lot #3080599 That's why ol' Uni-Vibe always says, avoid the hi-tech, lo-drag, tacticool, hi-dollar LEO stuff for self defense . . . stick with the tried and true rounds that were designed for the AR . . . . LC XM193 or Winchester Q-loads. |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 11:44:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
That's why ol' Uni-Vibe always says, avoid the hi-tech, lo-drag, tacticool, hi-dollar LEO stuff for self defense . . . stick with the tried and true rounds that were designed for the AR . . . . LC XM193 or Winchester Q-loads. Hate to burst your bubble, but in the latest batch of LC XM193 my department got, none of the primers are crimped and primers are blowing in all of our rifles from Colt Machine guns to the lowly DPMS carbines. Luckily, this is practice ammo, not only for marksmanship but for malfunction drills as well.
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Posted: 12/7/2008 11:45:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Link to DPMS receiver rug Interesting, but that wouldn't prevent a primer from getting stuck somewhere in the action. I'm still considering getting those. Most of the problematic primers were wedged under the trigger, so that rug may have kept me shooting longer. What killed it for me was a small piece of primer that wedged itself into the FCG and couldn't be removed until disassembled. That is the most retarded thing I think you could put on your weapon. Think about it... don't you want to know when you are popping primers? Yeah, it may lock up your weapon and ruin your range day but it's better than pulling shrapnel out of your teeth. Putting that thing in your weapon is like putting a band aid on arterial bleeding. 
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Posted: 12/7/2008 12:10:02 PM EDT
[#36]
My Dept. uses Federal XM 193 ball ammo for practice and we've had a lot of blown primers. I don't think the primer pockets are staked like most military ammo. I've seen blown primers jam rifles and take you completely out of action. We are currently issued Federal TRU 55 grain soft points for duty. I haven't seen any blown primers with this ammo but I don't know if the primers are staked. Our dept authorizes personally owned weapons plus issues rifles and carbines. We have bushmaster 16" M-4 type carbines, Colt M-16-A1's, Armalite M-4 type carbines and Bushmaster 14.5" full auto carbines for our Tactical guys. I know we have Troops carrying RRA Bushmasters and Colts that are personally owned. I'd be surprised if its a problem with the rifles I'd say its an ammo issue.
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Posted: 12/7/2008 12:20:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Could the cause of blown primers be a bad firing pin? Were any of the primer punctured? Just a thought...
Bruce |
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Posted: 12/7/2008 6:56:54 PM EDT
[#38]
None of the primers I have were pierced.
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Posted: 12/7/2008 7:17:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Could the cause of blown primers be a bad firing pin? Bruce No, primers are blown only due to overpressure issues. 5.56 pressure ammo with unstaked primers will do it, as will 5.56 ammo in undersized chambers. |
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Posted: 12/8/2008 8:11:39 AM EDT
[#40]
I spoke to Doug at Hornady this am and they want the ammo back in their hands. They are paying for the ammo to be shipped off to their facility to be tested and told me that regardless of testing outcome that I would not be recieving any of this back. They would be replacing it with some .223 stuff from inventory but he couldn't tell me what type and how much and when I may see the new stuff.
Bummer for sure, I hate to be without ammo and whatnot. I have a feeling that this is going to be a long drawn out process. I also could get no info from them on this ammo. They we're pretty hush on it. They we're also not believing me when I told them I got it from Cabelas and actually told me that after they confirmed it with the store in question that they would return my call. Well needless to say that when they called me back the people at Hornady were a little upset that this crap is on the shelves at cabelas. I'll keep you all posted on the ammo info return timeline as I hear or see more. |
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Posted: 12/8/2008 8:29:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Unless you are a LEO you are not even qualified to be shooting Hornady's much ballyhooed 5.56 TAP ammo. They will not replace it with 5.56 for a lowly civilian. This is not the first case of Hornady TAP ammo popping primers. There was a lot of the 8126N doing this about a year back. I guess if you are going to shoot 5.56 TAP you need to be a LEO AND you need to be very proficient at clearance drills. We don't know about this batch for sure, yet but it does seem strange that a "contract overrun" is coincidentally turning up defective. It may be that the marketing department at Hornady, with the F*** civilians policy, isn't the only one that needs to be looked at. QC is suspect now too. I've never shot the 60grn SP 556 Hornady ammo. Matter of fact, I never knew it existed until this thread... |
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Posted: 12/8/2008 9:01:43 AM EDT
[#42]
I bet the rifle in these issues has something to do with it.
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Posted: 12/8/2008 4:14:39 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Link to DPMS receiver rug Interesting, but that wouldn't prevent a primer from getting stuck somewhere in the action. I'm still considering getting those. Most of the problematic primers were wedged under the trigger, so that rug may have kept me shooting longer. What killed it for me was a small piece of primer that wedged itself into the FCG and couldn't be removed until disassembled. That is the most retarded thing I think you could put on your weapon. Think about it... don't you want to know when you are popping primers? Yeah, it may lock up your weapon and ruin your range day but it's better than pulling shrapnel out of your teeth. Putting that thing in your weapon is like putting a band aid on arterial bleeding. Thats what i was thinking "I'd rather not take a break and fix it. I'd rather continue even though Im gonna get screwed over BIG time" Thats like doing saix multiple times with the same rubber.
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Posted: 12/8/2008 7:52:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
I bet the rifle in these issues has something to do with it. The Rifle i'm using is a brand new Smith & Wesson MP 15T 5.56. I don't think the rifels are the problem. Mainly because there are 5 different brands used in question with this ammo and on top of that I don't think if they were the case that Hornady would be so quick as to tell us all to send our stuff back instantly. |
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Posted: 12/8/2008 9:34:31 PM EDT
[#45]
My brother (Balloo93) will probly update this tomorrow after I remind him. I believe Hornady said the ammo was bad and they are sending him some Ammo back.
I could be wrong though. We just talked about this a few days ago. |
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Posted: 12/9/2008 2:05:36 PM EDT
[#46]
After talking to Todd at Hornady just a few minu8tes to ask a few more questions, he is think this stuff was specifically formulated for 20 inch barrels. And aparently all of this stuff ended up only in Texas at Cabelas stores.
It just sucks really cause this stuff was cheap and was just what I was looking to shoot. Our outdoor and indoor ranges here only allow soft point or hollow point. So at 50 rounds for 20 ucks these fit the bill great. Oh well The experience in dealing with Hornady so far has been A+ talking to Todd and Doug. UPS call tag arrived today and ammo is going out first thing in the morning. Todd seemed to think this whole process once recieved would be done in a weeks time, so we'll see. Sucks too cause All I have in my posession fopr my rifle is 2 boxes of 20 rnds of .223 TAP FPD. 40 rounds....scary, hopefully the zombies don't attack any time in the next few weeks. Thanks again Todd and Doug. |
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Posted: 12/9/2008 2:24:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Friend of mine in SJPD reports similar problems with Hornady ammo.
According to him, they have junked it all and switched to Winchester PSP or similar. |
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Posted: 12/9/2008 5:45:52 PM EDT
[#48]
*** OK HOLD THE PRESS ***
Hornady ammo is no where close to junk. It is extremely accurate and extremely dependable. This thread is not intended to place bad image on their company. Don't everyone and their grandma start coming in here saying blah blah blah's friend who's cousin has a buddy who shoots Hornady and it's been crap for them or How you have a buddy of a buddy on some police unit somewhere and their department has nothing but problems with this stuff and now they are switching brands. I'm not gonna hear it. Like todd said earlier to me...."This ammo in question your calling about was formulated specifically 20 inch barrels. Well if thats the case then that would stand to reason why the few of us in this thread and one other implying about 7 people tops have issues. We're all shooting out of 16 inch barrels. |
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Posted: 12/10/2008 4:48:51 AM EDT
[#49]
I have not used their ammo in a Ar15 but in any rifle I have used Hornady in shot great, better than anything else. Things happen, and it sounds like they are doing what they can.
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Posted: 12/10/2008 5:55:19 AM EDT
[#50]
Talked to Hornady a couple of weeks ago and they stated there was no issue found and that the ammo spec'd out.
They replaced all of it with a new batch of the same ammo. They even replaced the rounds that were fired by me at the range. When it got in I took a random 8 rounds from each box and filled two Pmags with the mix. I fired the 16rds through each rifle (RRA and STAG, both in 16") and had zero issues this time. Don't know what the deal was, but the issue isn't there with these new batches. |
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