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Well, Holiday is over, looks like later in the week before I finish this one up......
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First thought is long transition time on date codes (as in barrels made in 1995 that lack date codes).........., second thought is I don't think there were any flat tops M4 Carbines issued in 1994, being that RIA did not standardized the flat top till 1995? We had this discussion before, will have to look that up, hope to have time to work on this tonight.... |
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Wow, nice work and great pictures.
What is incorrect about that the barrel nut on that painted upper? Also the leaf spring from the RAS goes under the handguard cap. (wink wink) |
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I remember that discussion. I think we concluded it was from 1994 but I'm not sure as I deleted it.
We could say it is from 1995 as old parts could still be used up. |
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921HB (USGI M4A1 Carbine with heavy barrel) I can't remember when they started making these, need to look it up
========================= Production took effect in 2001. Hotgun |
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I found it here:
ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=267251&page=5
Couple of things we have learned since that discussion. One being that there are barrels dated as early as 02/95 (it is in the 6520 data base). Another being that the O stamp dates back as far as 1989. Seems to me that the O stamp is not consistent, for example my 1993 6601 does not have a O stamp, at least I don't think it does, need to check it. Time line does not add up that RIA approved the flat top in 1995, and Colt started stamping all barrels in Feb of 1995. If that was the case then all factory original flat top uppered M4/A1's in DOD inventory would have barrel date codes, but they don't. It must have taken a year or more for Colt to consistently date stamp their barrels. |
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Barrel nut is overtimed past TDC so that one of the teeth is contacting the gas tube putting it in a bind with the carrier key. Thanks for the heads up on the RAS, had not noticed that. ETA: Come to think of it, may have done that because the upper had trouble with the gas tube binding on the key and causing feeding malfunctions. The RAS don't help with that, really need to get a RIS on there, more appropriate with a SOCOM upper, and it don't touch the gas tube. |
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Rather then digging through stuff, here is the M4 timeline I tossed together with input from scottryan: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=267251&page=4
What we do know is that Colt offered the RO921HB starting in 1998, and that there was a large shipment of RO921HB's shipped out in early 2001 to the various SFGs. Note this box is dated January of 2001: Also note the barrel date on the RO921HB in the first picture, that being 11/00. I don't know that this shipment was the first one, but never heard of an earlier one. Will go with production starting in 2000 and deliveries starting as early as Jan of 2001. |
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Another clue on the "F" FSB, Colt was producing this part as early as Feb. 1995:
From the 6700 data base: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=271181 |
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The "crown" FSB looks familiar to me, but don't remember when they were used. Will have to consult my digital photographic library, but don't have access to that till this weekend. Will have to give Leid a heads up on this thread, he has an early 723........... |
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so what is the diff between a model 727 and a m4/a1. I have seen stripped barrels with the (c) before.
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Well, quite a bit, but here are few items: markings (lower roll markings, barrel markings, etc...) front swivel barrel profile feed ramp angle handguards receiver extention receiver extention nut buffer extactor spring extractor buffer date of manufacture front sight post front sight base Hmm, come to think of it, might be easier to list the parts that are the same. |
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So a 727 is a regular carbine with a steped barrel like a m4? Right? I have a (c) marked barrel and it has the m4 ramps. The only difference I can tell in it and a m4 barrel is the ( ) around the C and the fsb isnt F stamped but it is the correct profile like the F stamped ones. In your list why would the reciever extenion be different, a 727 is a carbine. |
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M4/A1 receiver extension is 4 position, Model 727 is two. I just added more info and pics regarding feed ramps.... |
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I is it OK if I add that picture to the first post, with credit to you of course? I don't have any 723 stuff. |
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that'd be fine, dont worry about giving any credit |
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Just noticed that yours has the old handguard cap. And it does seem Colt was pretty good about stamping thier carbine barrels with the O stamp since 1989. Colt began to move away from the C and Bell FSB during M16A2 production (about 83-87) so I would date your barrel to 84-87. It has regular rifle feed ramps, right? |
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Thanks, take it yours has the same front sight base as YardDogOne's, or is it the older "C and Bell"? |
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Correct, NON - M4 ramps Thanks for the info |
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Good to hear on the feed ramps, I would be real confused if it had extended ones. Went ahead and updated the first post with info from you and Carey. |
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I just found something interesting. Just took a 733 upper apart to get a closer look at the feed ramps. They are the 700 series extended Carbine ramps but the extention is marked 4. These ramps do not match up with later M4 upper receivers in that they are shallower.
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what year do you figure these were? You think they were the precursor to the ramps we know today? |
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The 733 uppers I have date 1989-1992. Sorry, can't narrow it down any more then that. The oldest upper I have with the 700 series Carbine ramps is about 1988. It is not marked "4", and is pictured in the guide. Yes, these are precursors to the later "real deal". |
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I'll get buffer tube pictures (not attached to a lower) of every variation including thread finish, if you want them. I think we dicussed this before.
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That would be excellent, please do. |
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