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Posted: 2/12/2006 10:44:56 AM EDT
[#1]
I am having trouble with the digicam!
I got an IM from the owner at SA and will be following up with him on Monday. For the record let me state that I am not trying to dump on Superior Arms as I am sure they are going to do what any company would do when a few bad apples roll out of the barrel. All I want is an AR I won't have to worry about. I buy every gun whith the idea in the back of my head that it might end up being "the one" I might someday have to defend my life, home, or family with and I want them all to function flawlessly! There's no room in my safe for a rifle I don't have 100% confidence in. |
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Posted: 2/12/2006 4:30:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Followup on the buffer extention amount from the rear lower receiver tang:
I verified this from 3 independant sources, one being the CAD files on ARFCOM. The dimension is a little strange in that you must back into in an odd manner. There is a 0.565 +/-0.002 " from the buttstock mounting face of the receiver. This dimension goes to the intersection of the inside diameter of the buttstock threads and the centerline axis of the buffer retainer drilled hole. The buffer reteiner is 0.094 +/-0.003 by my records in the section "above the buffer tube ID". Taking the 0.565 minus 0.047 = 0.518-0.500+/-0.005 receiver tang =0.018 nominal buffer protrusion past the "tang" of the lower. Add +/-0.002 for placement, +/-0.003 on detent size, and spring pressure variations about averages out to 0.016"-0.021" which is what I am measuring on parts here in the shop. I have no doubt that some of you have buffers that extend further past the tang of the lower, but as you can verify yourself, we are very very close to MIL-Spec. As to marks on the front of the buffer, I have seen these myself and contribute them to manufacturing tolerances in the rest of the components of the upper and lockup. If you still have concerns, by all means contact me. |
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Posted: 2/12/2006 5:20:25 PM EDT
[#3]
+1 |
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Posted: 2/13/2006 12:57:57 PM EDT
[#4]
Hello All, Krista and I are back from the SHOT show and with all of our products we distribute or manufacture if you are not happy then neither are we!!!! If a lower is to be returned it is best to go to the manufacturer as they have the ability to ship direct back to the end user on a warrenty issue.
If Superior does not make this 100% right with you please contact me (or Krista) an I will. problems happen with all manufacturers and I don't believe we have yet let a customer walk away feeling like he got less than advertised and in most cases they benifit above expectation. You want a different lower (manufacturer even).... we can make it happen, these are solid units and sound like a lemon slipped by. If we need to re emburse transfer fees or shipping then so be it, its the right thing to do. (the only thing in customer service to do!) I think Tangochaser did the right thing in bringing it up. Leo and Terry will attack any potential issues with enthusiasm and a pro-active mind set (they are beefing the front bosses up as we speak from this thread) I know they have selected a new proven anodizer and they process at least 80% of the lowers out there. (cosmetic blems should be a thing of the past) Please feel free to email with concerns as this is the best way for us to "catch up" after the show. Thank you Robert 309-534-8175 [email protected] |
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Posted: 2/13/2006 2:57:41 PM EDT
[#5]
That is awesome customer service and why I will be putting more orders in with RB in the future!!!
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Posted: 2/13/2006 8:26:43 PM EDT
[#6]
So show us the receivers. Take pics with the measuring tools, to show us what is wrong. You posted this on the 2/7 and no pics yet. |
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Posted: 2/13/2006 8:45:44 PM EDT
[#7]
+1 |
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Posted: 2/13/2006 9:33:45 PM EDT
[#8]
"As to marks on the front of the buffer, I have seen these myself and contribute them to manufacturing tolerances in the rest of the components of the upper and lockup."
I have two Superior lowers, only one (blem) has the buffer issue. Still a "newbie", is this buffer marking common to other receivers? I am satisfied with RBPrecision and the Superior products, and would buy the product , again, from the distributor. As stated before, the response defines "customer support"!!! |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 5:19:01 AM EDT
[#9]
I would not consider marks on the buffer as acceptable as long as the buffer has the correct bevel on the front face. Here is a pic of my rec. Sorry, for some reason couldn't get it to load here. http://tinypic.com/view/?pic=nqnrj4 rj |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 6:51:14 AM EDT
[#10]
I haven't posted pictures because I am active duty Army and lately I have been getting off work after 2000 (and I'm freaking tired), and this past weekend, I had my sons birthday party on Saturday and Sunday I was gone all day on an out of town basketball game with my daughter.
The lowers are already assembled and it takes time to take them apart. I was hoping to get a chance to shoot them before I decide whether or not to return them to Superior Arms for replacements. It is also entirely possible the FCG pins are undersized. I have seen a few thousandths difference in pin sizes between manufacturers over the years. I have a life outside of ARFCOM. I have Friday this week off and will attempt some close up pictures. My crappy Olympus digital has never been good at closeups. I also want to say again, I never blasted Superior or RB Precision. I just stated the conditions of the lowers I received. I have not decided if I'll return them as I haven't shot them yet to check for any mechanical issues. |
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Posted: 2/14/2006 7:10:20 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 2/14/2006 7:11:24 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 2/17/2006 7:50:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Any updates?
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Posted: 2/17/2006 9:03:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Here's the pictures I promised. Take a close look at the holes around the hammer and trigger pins. That is not a shadow but the elongated hole. Up close they look like the drill bit chipped the edge of the hole causing the elongation. As I said earlier, the pins went in without tools except a slight tap with a small hammer to get the pins to go through the hammer and trigger. Both lowers have the same FCG hole issues.
The pins appear to be tight now due to the spring pressure on the hammer and trigger. The other photo shows the finish blem on the pistol grip radius area. The discoloration is right above the flash reflection and looks like a tiger stripe.    I fired both lowers and they shoot ok. Again, I am not flaming RBP or Superior, or complaining, just presenting facts. I will keep these lowers as they work and that is what I want. A working lower. |
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Posted: 2/17/2006 4:52:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Just curious but on the lowers denting the buffer face has the length of the lower from the center line of the front pivot hole to the back been checked to see if it is not over the maximun allowed length? If this distance is off would that not make the measurement from the back seem correct when it is not? |
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Posted: 2/18/2006 6:22:13 AM EDT
[#16]
Thanks for the photos, I went through the last few blems from the batch and it appears a new deburr person used a single flute hand chamfer tool instead of our 8 flute machine bit, it dug in on two sides and makes the hole look elongated, the pins fit ok but looks less than desirable, I believe it was limited to one shift possibly 30-40 lowers (hmmm might be why they sold em as blems :-) Thanks again Tango I will be at Superior today to discuss. Robert |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 11:15:36 PM EDT
[#17]
TANGO: My lower looks identical to yours, except that the selector hole on mine is elogated also. When built up you could see the detent through the gap! I apologize for not getting pics of mine up. I am having trouble with photobucket. The front takedown boss on the other side was also dangerously thin along the bottom.
Rob and Krista sure did make it right with me! I will be going to them first for all my AR business from now on. Folks like them deserve our 100% support! |
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Posted: 2/20/2006 11:43:59 PM EDT
[#18]
The only flaw on mine was a jag out of the writing and a jag on the mag well. No ovids, and nothin material. Mt CAr build works well.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 1:04:20 AM EDT
[#19]
 Above: Superior Arms lower receiver with buffer installed. Cycling the bolt carrier manually will result in the buffer edge being chewed up by the buffer detent. This was tested with a known-to-work upper receiver.  Above: Ameetec Arms lower receiver with buffer installed. Has worked fine for 1000+ rd and not a single scratch or dent on the buffer. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 7:54:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Also, if you look closely at the two different photos, the Superior appears to have much less material around the spot above the webbing between your index and thumb. There was enough material removed that the CAR plates sticks out. Also notice the platform right under where the charging handle slides. I have noticed that overall, the Superior lower was slightly undersized in the oddest places (trigger pins were sticking out).
ETA: The front pivot pin was an extremely tight fit for both upper receivers. The 2 upper receivers were tested to fit fine with the Ameetec lower. It was tight to the point i needed a tool to push out the pin. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 8:59:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Hmm.......
I have ten of these setting in my safe... It sounds like I'll have to dig them out and scrape up the cash for 10 lower parts kits so I'll know if they're keepers or not.... 
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Posted: 2/21/2006 9:19:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Just compare them with known-to-be-good lower receivers in the aforementioned areas. It's doubtful that your receivers will have problems unless it was bought as a "blem". Notice I didn't complain once about the overall finish/appearance (which a cosmetic blemish would affect). |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 3:00:22 PM EDT
[#23]
So, for those of you who bought SA lowers not classified as blems, are you having any of the same problems???
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Posted: 2/21/2006 4:10:23 PM EDT
[#24]
A big +1 to RB for how they approach customer service.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 4:20:24 PM EDT
[#25]
I bought a RRA lower from a dealer here on the board who will remain un-named. Anyway the lower receiver was clearly burned and pitted during the anodizing process and this was very noticeable. I chose to keep it and have been 100% satisfied with it’s performance. The defects actually add character to the weapon!
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Posted: 2/21/2006 4:24:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Yeah, but you did come across that way.
Good advice. Take it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2006 6:01:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Sorry...
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Posted: 2/21/2006 6:03:36 PM EDT
[#29]
I am gonna have to say for the cost of these receivers, I have been turned off by the problems. I dont mind paying $20 more for an almost guaranteed good receiver.
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Posted: 2/21/2006 6:15:19 PM EDT
[#30]
I just built an AR from a Superior blem lower. It has the pictogram safety markings. I had no problems. It wasa great $75 spent. I also got a LPK, buffer and spring for $146 total.....NO SHIPPING CHARGES!!!!
RP Precision +1  jj
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:41:24 AM EDT
[#31]
I will add this. It is entirely possible my LPK pins are slightly undersize also. I got both LPKs from Delton for $40 each during their Christmas sale last year. Maybe they were that cheap for reason. Only speculation but possible.
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Posted: 2/22/2006 8:49:30 AM EDT
[#32]
I believe Del-Ton sells DPMS LPKs, and they're not crap. I just used a DPMS LPK to build up the Ameetec lower I got. Everything fit fine, like my RRA LPK I used in an earlier build. When I used the DPMS LPK with the Superior lower, nothing fit properly. The bolt catch had a lot of side to side play, the mag catch had lots of play as well. Everything seemed to indicate the parts were out of spec, and these questions were answered when everything fit the Ameetec like a glove. The rear ambi sling plate also fit properly on the Ameetec. The webbing between my index/thumb does not get caught by the plate because the forging/material was not removed in excess quantities. I think it may have been part of the machining process to remove the forging marks. While it gives a great looking exterior, if done improperly, it will remove too much material. |
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Posted: 2/28/2006 7:09:21 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 2/28/2006 7:53:16 PM EDT
[#34]
All ten of mine are "blems". The cosmetics I'm not particular about. Some are nice, one is a little rough, and the rest are not offensive. Pretty much what I expected walking in. The one I checked holds the buffer in the correct place to maintain pressure on the bolt carrier. That made me smile. :-) The receiver end plate for an M4 stock seems ot fit properly too. The top of the plate is obviously taller than the charging handle ramp on the rear of the receiver ring, but I can file that down if needed. Then I pulled an old trigger pin out of my spares to check the trigger and hammer pins - it fell straight through both holes. i pulled a new pin and it fell right through too. (same thing on two more from my stack) It's been a while since I've worked a stripped lower - trigger pins are not supposed to be that loose, are they? |
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Posted: 2/28/2006 8:09:27 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 2/28/2006 8:57:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Does anyone think the thinner pivot bosses will pose a real problem?
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Posted: 2/28/2006 9:03:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Trigger and hammer pins should go right through the holes freely with no play getting tight only when the springs are on the trigger and hammer.
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Posted: 2/28/2006 9:06:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Odd... the pin holes mic to an almost exact 0.156 just like the '93 drawing shows...???
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Posted: 2/28/2006 9:09:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Odd... I guess it's just been too long since I've been knee-deep in a stripped lower. I seem to recall some tension there. Maybe it was just the spring tension on them. Oopsie! Sounds like I don't really have any major gripes then.
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:36:46 AM EDT
[#40]
I built up a Bushmaster and a Stag arms stripped lower. On each of them I had to tap the pins in all the way with a small tack hammer. Not a lot of tension but more than I could push with my fingers. I think I might try KNS oversized pins and see if that helps tighten things up. If that don't work, I might just lightly flat one end of each pin with a few taps from a hammer so they will press fit.
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Posted: 3/1/2006 3:08:51 PM EDT
[#41]
Just finished building up a "blem" lower I bought from RB back in January. Pin holes are round, but the hammer pin sticks out slightly on one side as a previous poster mentioned. No issues with the receiver extension or buffer fit. However, the pivot pin hole is drilled slightly off-center; the lower will not even come close to mating up with a couple of my uppers. On the uppers it does mate with, the fit is very tight. Once I get the upper in for my new build, I'll check the fit with the Superior lower. If there's an issue, I'll just swap the Superior lower with the Bushmaster lower on my "beater" M4, and use the BM lower for the new build.
Had I to do it over again, I'd have paid the extra $10 for the non-blem (and hopefully in-spec) lower. If it wasn't for the pivot pin hole being off, though, I'd be totally happy with this one. The actual blems consist of a couple light dings or toolmarks left side; one near the mag catch cutout and one on the upsweep where the receiver extension threads in. 
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Posted: 3/1/2006 3:36:57 PM EDT
[#42]
Welp ill throw my .02 in this thread. I jus got 2 SA lowers from RB precision. I didnt care about the blem'd part. Anyways, I did notice the front pivot pin area wasnt built up like other. The build itself went together very easily. I didnt notice any egg shapes on any of hte holes. My FFL picked up one of the Blem Lowers and his Buffer detent hole wasnt there. They forgot to drill it out. So my FFL jus drilled it out himself with a drill press. He has its good to go. Ive fired about 100rounds thru my lower since the build. No issues so far. Mine wasnt that Blem'd up either, couple like dings and the finish near the writing on the front looked smeared, like air was blowing while the anadized it. etc. So far im pleased with the price 75bux shipped, it works. I built this a plinker anyways.
You can see the lack of material around the front take down pin. This is painfully obvious.  The lack of buffer pretruding. I noticed some minor scuffing of the edges of the buffer tube, but to be honest, ive seen this with other ARs in the past, so dunno. If someone didnt mention anything in this thread I wouldnt have thought twice about it. Still not too concerned.  This jus shows the right side and the worse of the blem'd part, the lil ding.  Here is the left side. That spot below the SAFE marking is jus CLP, after seeing this pic, I went and checked, it wiped off. lol. Also if you look to the left at the markings you can see where they are kinda streaked, that is part of the Blem'd part. Not a concern to me. Eventually ill duracoat this lower OD to match upper.  I did find this build to go smoothly, all the roll pins jus need minor tapping to go in. The trigger and hammer pin need jus light tapping as well. But I really dont have any complaints other then the lack of material at the front pin take down. |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 3:42:52 PM EDT
[#43]
Talked to Terry from SA today -- nice guy.
I'm fairly satisfied that there are no flaws so gratuitous that I'll need to take him up on his offer of 'making it right' for me. I'm going to be giving an awfully critical eye to them as I build the first few up though... |
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Posted: 3/1/2006 6:10:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Tag for updates.
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Posted: 3/1/2006 7:30:13 PM EDT
[#45]
So it sounds like these so called "blem" lowers are more then just blem finishes. They are manufacturing screw ups that Superior is still selling and labeling them blems.
Wow...... |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 2:38:28 PM EDT
[#46]
According to the above post, no manufacture defects. Lets not go spreading rumors. I talked to Terry(Superior Arms) and Robert(RB Precesion), and both have said they would do whatever to make things right. These individuals have chosen to keep their lowers. I could not believe that these guys would purpously allow a lower out of the building knowing that it has problems.Consider how litigation happy everyone is, and then add to it because they are a gun manufacturer. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 3:25:32 PM EDT
[#47]
You dont call egged out holes, holes drilled in the wrong place, buffer tubes drilled incorrectly, etc manufacturing defects? I am glad that they want to make this right, but to me it shows their lack of QC, it seems they cared more about profit then quality. They either new about the defects and still let them out their doors labeling them as blems or even selling them as normal, or their QC missed all these lowers. Both scary thoughts in my mind. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 3:58:35 PM EDT
[#48]
There is a measurement on the prints for the trigger rear guard hole. One is a combined number of the width of the guard holes and from the center of the front pivot hole to the front hole guard hole and the other is from the center rear takedown hole down. And As I mentioned before the locating the buffer detent hole with measurements from the rear of the receiver will only be correct if the distance from the front pivot hole to the rear is correct. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 4:44:18 PM EDT
[#49]
I can honestly tell you these guys are much more concerned with customer satisfaction and quality than profit. I had ordered 3 receivers from RB Precision (Superiors) custom serialized for a few projects and their delivery was delayed because of finish defects (from what I understand Superior manufactures the parts and has another company actually finish them). Robert and Krista (RB Precision) and Terry (Superior) were MORE THAN GENEROUS in making it right with me for the delays!!! My job allows me to travel to one of our locations that is a mere 30 or so miles from Wapello, so I did a FTF transfer at Superior's manufacturing facility. These guys took time out of their busy day to be sure my product was satisfactory and gave me a tour of the facilities also. Not meaning to flame anyone, but being in a service oriented business myself for over 20 years, I can honestly say these gentlemen are concerned with customer satisfaction first and foremost! FLSTC |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 4:54:09 PM EDT
[#50]
I jsut built up three of these blemmed uppers and had zero issues. Pins were tight, holes were concentric, and the buffer protuded enough.
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