Can you use LMT enhanced bolts with standard bolt carriers? Also, are the enhanced bolts intended for all types of AR-15s or only certain lengths, i.e. sbr's?

What problems have you seen?

Failure to extract and eject on LMT 10.5" uppers.  Didn't know when I bought it that it was designed for use on 14.5" barrels for optimum performance.

Quoted: Quoted: What problems have you seen? They were made to be used with a 14.5" barrel shooting mil-spec 62gra ammo. Anything else it is really a crap shoot as to whether or not it will work correctly. C4

what stance does LMT take on the situation?

Quoted: Quoted: What problems have you seen? They were made to be used with a 14.5" barrel shooting mil-spec 62gra ammo. Anything else it is really a crap shoot as to whether or not it will work correctly. C4

Thanks..

It doesn't seem logical to make an "Enhanced" bolt that doesn't enhance things....

I would think it should work better than the standard bolt.

I got one of the Leitner Wise ACB bolts recently and had it sent off to have an electroless nickle/silicon carbide finish applied.  It is as nice as the old LMT bolts in machineing and better by a lot than current LMT versions.  I only have pics of it before coating but will post em when I get home.  The extractor did not get coated by the company due to oversight so I am waiting for that to get finished before I can have it test fired in my barrel and have them sent to me.  The bolt is made of stainless and the extractor is another type of steel.  Its interesting looking. Hope it works as well as claimed.  I got it because I liked the idea of the LMT bolt but not its execution and only working with M855 ammo.

Quoted: Quoted: It doesn't seem logical to make an "Enhanced" bolt that doesn't enhance things.... I would think it should work better than the standard bolt. Well technically it most likely does (better coating, dual extraction spring, etc), but it seems to only work well in a specific setup shooting certain ammo. C4

Grant,
have you sent any back to LMT? If so, what have they done/said?

These pics suck but it will give you an idea.  An alternative at least.

IIRC, the extractor on the LMT enhanced bolt would not work with only one spring functioning.  Is this also the same with the LW?

If so what's the point of using dual springs?

I sent an enhanced bolt back to LMT.  They said it worked fine.  It would not run in my CMMG 14.5 upper.  Multiple FTE.  LMT sent me a new one, it would not work either.  I tried a buddie's enhanced LMT - he had the same problems, so did I.  So I went through a total of 3 LMT enhanced bolts, none of which would run on Federal xm193 or SA surplus.  They liked Black Hills 77g.

I stick with Colt bolts with some enhancements - McFarland rings, SAW extractor spring.  100%.

Thanks for the details, I appreciate it!

Gee wonder where they got that idea?

DevL:  how much did that bolt run you??  I looked on their web sight but didn't see them anywhere.

Thanks

Quoted: The initial price for ARFCOM members is $120 but the next run will retail at $150.

Thanks for the fast answer.  Do you have any specs for the bolt?  Hardness?...alloy?...MPI?  Will it work in a fairly new, stock Bushmaster Bolt carrier and Barrel??  

Are these tight "Match" type bolts??...or are these designed for social rifles??

Thanks

Will you be offering it in 6.8 SPC?

Honestly Leitner Wise did not charge me yet for the bolt.  They didnt want me to have to pay for it if the coating process melted my bolt.  I thought that was rather nice of them.

*Thread highjack*

DevL:  Could you give more info/loction on the finish that you putting onto the bolt?  I've never heard of a finish like you describe.  I'd like to compare it to my favorite: Melonite.  (Also a high temp process)

Thanks

Quoted: Quoted: Will you be offering it in 6.8 SPC? Yes, in final grind now, about 300 units, should be available late December early January 2006.

Thanks.  What is the best way to order?

Not the "Data Base"!


just joking.

E-Mail sent

looks like LMT

Hi guys,
    I have an LMT enhanced chrome bolt that double feeds in a Colt M16A2. Rifle runs fine in SA & FA with Colt bolt. All other parts of rifle are factory Colt. I tried different mags with same results. Any ideas?
                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                     Carey

Quoted: Hi guys,     I have an LMT enhanced chrome bolt that double feeds in a Colt M16A2. Rifle runs fine in SA & FA with Colt bolt. All other parts of rifle are factory Colt. I tried different mags with same results. Any ideas?                                                                     Thanks,                                                                      Carey

Any ideas?  Well, things like that can happen when you use Brand X parts.  Ha, just giving you a hard time Carey, but am a bit surprised you would do something like that.

Hi Ekie,
   Double feeds almost every time. I think the Brand "X" would work better! I am pretty well puzzled on this one.
                                                        Carey
                                                           

Quoted: Hi Ekie,    Double feeds almost every time. I think the Brand "X" would work better! I am pretty well puzzled on this one.                                                         Carey

You had a bolt in your rifle that was made of carpenter steel, shot peened, magnufluxed, and proof tested, and from the company that has spent some 46 years of R&D to get the part right.   Then you replaced it with what?  Nothing comparable, then surprised the rifle don't work anymore?

Ekie,
    Ouch, that hurt! When you put it like that, even I feel like I should be flogged!
    The machine work on the bolt was so beautiful, I just had to take one for a test drive. After all the hoopla about bolt bounce, o-rings under the extractor, M4 feed cuts, HD extractor springs, etc, you feel left out if you don't jump on the band wagon and get the new and improved "stuff". But when it all comes down to going "BANG" every time, Colt gets my vote for rifles and Glock gets my vote for handguns. No modifications necessary, they work. So I would guess that their R&D money was well spent.
    So far, the LMT enhanced bolt is the bolt I would want the other guy to have in his rifle.
                                                                      Carey

Quoted: Ekie,     Ouch, that hurt! When you put it like that, even I feel like I should be flogged!     The machine work on the bolt was so beautiful, I just had to take one for a test drive. After all the hoopla about bolt bounce, o-rings under the extractor, M4 feed cuts, HD extractor springs, etc, you feel left out if you don't jump on the band wagon and get the new and improved "stuff". But when it all come down to going "BANG" every time, Colt gets my vote for rifles and Glock gets my vote for handguns. No modifications necessary, they work. So I would guess that their R&D money was well spent.     So far, the LMT enhanced bolt is the bolt I would want the other guy to have in his rifle.                                                                       Carey

Ha, well would never have posted in this thread except that you did first & I know you, so figured I would give you a hard time.  So, now you owe me one.

Good deal. Only thing I can think of is to try a different M16, so I will try that next week. And it is a Colt M16A2 also, so the bolt is the only odd part about the equation.
                                                                   Carey

Quoted: Only thing I can think of is to try a different M16, so I will try that next week.

Glutten for punishment?

LW,
    Thanks for the info. Now I know what I have. Since there is no room in the springs for the Colt buffers, any advise? This Colt carbine has run well with the stock carbine buffer. Maybe the H, H2, or "C" buffer to slow the ROF & the extractor bounce?
                                                                    Thanks,
                                                                     Carey

I own a couple of these.. I have had issues in both my M16s and ARs. Some uppers like them, some do not. Same ammo... both Colt and LMT 14.5 uppers.. Suppressed and not.

I chucked one in the first few hours of a course at Blackwater, it worked fine for 500 rounds and then out of the blue, trouble. I put in a standard bolt/carrier and all was well. I put the LMT Enhanced in another upper later and it ran fine..  Who knows.

Sure they are cool and the latest and greatest but I would advise you to save the money and buy ammo / take a class.

Friday, December 02, 2005

I have the LMT Enhanced Bolt and Bolt Carrier on both of my Class 3 M4 Carbines (14.5-inch barrel).  Round count on M4 (one) is 5,550; round count on M4 (two) is 8,050.  Both carbines are fired alternatively between semi and full automatic.  Ammunition used is the Federal M193.  Both M4s run great with the LMT Enhanced Bolt and Bolt Carrier, no malfunctions of any type to report, ever!

The chrome finish on these parts makes cleaning much easier and the third gas port on the LMT Enhanced Bolt Carrier, in conjunction using the M84 “Gas Buster” Charging Handle, has totally eliminated gas blowback into my face while shooting these weapons.

When I ordered these parts directly from LMT, I also purchased spare Extractors and Extractor Springs.  I have yet to use these spare parts.

I think LMT makes a great product and the Enhanced Bolt and Bolt Carrier are worth every penny paid.


MP5 Machinenpistole

"You had a bolt in your rifle that was made of carpenter steel, shot peened, magnufluxed, and proof tested, and from the company that has spent some 46 years of R&D to get the part right. Then you replaced it with what? Nothing comparable, then surprised the rifle don't work anymore?"


Did they really spend 46 years getting it right?

What were they using in Vietnam?

I thought it was the same product.   As a general rule Colt people don't change much of anything-- it's what they are good at.  They also rarely think of anything interesting.  That's what sets companies like LMT and LW apart-- at least they will stop making the same thing long enough to think of how to possibly do something better.  

"I have the LMT Enhanced Bolt and Bolt Carrier on both of my Class 3 M4 Carbines (14.5-inch barrel). Round count on M4 (one) is 5,550; round count on M4 (two) is 8,050. Both carbines are fired alternatively between semi and full automatic. Ammunition used is the Federal M193. Both M4s run great with the LMT Enhanced Bolt and Bolt Carrier, no malfunctions of any type to report, ever! "

That's a little hard to believe.  I also had an M4 also semi and automatic-- granted STD bolt, but I found that the M4 didn't like to be fired more than 300 rounds in a session.  It might have been the short time-- but I kept my bolt open at all possible times to keep the barrel cool.  In probably 30-45 minutes that ammo load was through the tube though.  Beyond 300rds I could still get function, but I would often get one malf of some type per 30 to 60 rounds.  That most of the time was a bolt that didn't fully chamber the round due to slugish operation.  Do you run extra power buffer springs in your rifles?

That was 10,000 rounds I put through it with fairly repeatable results-- I always started to see malfs around 300 rounds and all my sessions were quick sessions with a lot of reflexive fire as the range was only 35meters.  All range sessions were begun with a clean rifle lightly oiled on the BC rails and the cam pin with less than seven or eight rounds fired between cleanings and range time.     Of course M855 and some tracers (less than 20%) were used-- maybe those ammo types are less reliable than 193?

Quoted: Did they really spend 46 years getting it right?

Rock Island Armory (RIA) approved changes were made to the bolt assy (less carrier) within the first five years, and as recent the last five years.  They are also proposed changes to the bolt assy that RIA has not approved, such as Colt's extended life M4 bolt.  Such unapproved upgrades rarely make it to production, and are as such little known.

Quoted: What were they using in Vietnam?

Contract 508 US Air Force M16, and US Army XM16E1's were first delivered in the spring of 1964.  These rifles are significantly different then todays.  The material the bolt was made of was upgraded, magetic partical inspection was added, extractor spring was redesigned. and shot peening were added to the specs all withen the first 10 years of production.  Other changes were made over the years.

Quoted: I thought it was the same product.   As a general rule Colt people don't change much of anything-- it's what they are good at.

The general rule is that RIA is slow to change, Colt's is constantly R&Ding new ideas.  There are no important parts from the flash suppressor to the buttstock screw that Colt's did not redesign after they bought the rights from ArmaLite.  Go here for a few examples:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=241681

Quoted: They also rarely think of anything interesting.

Anything interesting?  Rather then typing out a laundry list of interesting Colt's designs, take a quick look of Knight's collection:

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=216215

Note his collection of Colt's stops in the late 1980's, Knight's does not appear to have a Colt's M5 Carbine, a more current interesting thing they have done.

Quoted: That's what sets companies like LMT and LW apart-- at least they will stop making the same thing long enough to think of how to possibly do something better.

It would appear you have not heard of such Colt's employees/engineers as (my apologies to those left out, I simply lifted these names from Colt's patents):

F. E. Sturtevant
Robert E Roy
Stanley D Silsby
Henry A Into
John Jorczak
Robert E Snodgrass
Michael N Tyler
Robert D Fremont
Richard L Costello
Harold Waterman
Seth Bredbury
Henry Tatro
Jim Taylor
Foster Sturtevant
Larry Robbins
Horace Mac McCoan
James collier

While you may take their work for granted, you are intimately familiar with their improvements on ArmaLite's design in that you use their products on some of the tools of your trade.

Quoted: That's a little hard to believe.  I also had an M4 also semi and automatic-- granted STD bolt, but I found that the M4 didn't like to be fired more than 300 rounds in a session.  It might have been the short time-- but I kept my bolt open at all possible times to keep the barrel cool.  In probably 30-45 minutes that ammo load was through the tube though.  Beyond 300rds I could still get function, but I would often get one malf of some type per 30 to 60 rounds.  That most of the time was a bolt that didn't fully chamber the round due to slugish operation.  Do you run extra power buffer springs in your rifles? That was 10,000 rounds I put through it with fairly repeatable results-- I always started to see malfs around 300 rounds and all my sessions were quick sessions with a lot of reflexive fire as the range was only 35meters.  All range sessions were begun with a clean rifle lightly oiled on the BC rails and the cam pin with less than seven or eight rounds fired between cleanings and range time.     Of course M855 and some tracers (less than 20%) were used-- maybe those ammo types are less reliable than 193?

There is something wrong with that M4.  A properly running M4 can fire until the barrel fails withen a matter of minutes.  Based on my experience I would suspect an improperly aligned gas tube, go here for some details about what I am talking about:

www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=11538&an=0&page=0#11538

Ladies & Gentlemen,
   We have an interesting  3-way match underway. In this corner we have GreenO & in the other corner we have Ekie. The odd man out here is our original poster, civprod, whose thread on LMT bolts has been totally 'jacked!
    Civprod,
    As you can see, some of us are very passionate and very opinionated about AR15/M16/M4 rifles. Some us shoot them, some of us build them, and some of us study them. But all of us thoroughly enjoy them or we would not be here.
    Be very careful when asking a simple question like:
Can you use LMT enhanced bolts with standard bolt carriers? Also, are the enhanced bolts intended for all types of AR-15s or only certain lengths, i.e. sbr's?

                                                                       Carey

LW,
    Email me on how to pay you for a couple of the buffers and I will give them a try. I have several weeks off this month and have time to try to sort this out.
                                                            Thanks,
                                                             Carey
                                                             [email protected]

Quoted: Ladies & Gentleman,    We have an interesting  3-way match underway. In this corner we have GreenO & in the other corner we have Ekie. The odd man out here is our original poster, civprod, whose thread on LMT bolts has been totally 'jacked!     Civprod,     As you can see, some of us are very passionate and very opinionated about AR15/M16/M4 rifles. Some us shoot them, some of us build them, and some of us study them. But all of us thoroughly enjoy them or we would not be here.     Be very careful when asking a simple question like: Can you use LMT enhanced bolts with standard bolt carriers? Also, are the enhanced bolts intended for all types of AR-15s or only certain lengths, i.e. sbr's?                                                                        Carey

Yep, hehehe.