Hey guys. I've had my bushmaster for a while, doing entirely target shooting. Now a friend of mine invited me to go to SC hunting with him, deer and maybe wild boar.

I'm worried 223 is too small for that, but with accuracy, relatively close range, and the right load, could it be done? Searching online gives me both 'yes' and 'no' answers.

What do you guys think?

Should be fine, use a good quality bullet, Not FMJ type, heaviest you can find. I have friends who swear by .223 on animals up to size of Red Deer and since they hunt for a living who can argue. They prefer 75 - 85gn projectiles
STI

Nosler makes the Partition bullet in a 60 grain .224 bullet, and Sierra makes it's Game king up to a 60 grainer also.  I am going to load some of these up for my son to hunt deer with next year out of my single shot .223.

The twist in your AR should favor these heavier bullets, and they will be better for hunting in this smaller caliber.  

I typically use a heavier caliber for deer and hogs.  THAT BEING SAID....I've shot more deer with my little single shot in .223 than any other caliber I own.  Mostly because every time I'm out hunting coyotes (and deer are in season) I see deer.  I usually try to take a head or neck shot with the .223.  

On hogs you will definately need a good penetrating bullet.  Don't try to center punch a hog in the shoulder, or in the head with a .223.  Try to put it right behind the ear, in the neck, or behind the shoulder.  I hit a big sow in the shoulder with my 44MAG and she ran off like it tickled.  

Good luck and good shooting.

thanks a lot for your quick response guys.

I've been reading posts for a while, but I just joined now. I'm impressed.

My brother has killed upwards of 60 deer, many of them with his AR (Colt CAR-A3).  And .223 seems to work just fine provided you shoot them in the head, since it will greatly reduce the chance of them running when shot, which pumps adrenaline into the meat which adds a gamey flavor to the meat.  So, headshots = better meat.  

By the way, the deer he shoots are Black Tailed deer, fairly small at 140lbs average.

Brian

You might try asking this in the hunting forum, instead of here.

FWIW, I use ONLY Ar15s for hog hunting.  One of those is  a 9mm conversion to boot.  

5.56 FMJ is a fine cartridge for hogs.  The last two boars I have taken were 'honest' 245lbers.  I weighed them both so you can rest assured that even a 'large' boar is going down when hit with an 5.56.

[img]http://www.tvcc.edu/faculty/ballen/hog%20245lbs.jpg[/img]

This one was hit in the midsection.  The round decimated the right side kidney, ruptured the structure of the spine and did major damage to the arterial systems in the upper portion of the hog's midsection.

The hog tried to run about 20 yards with his back legs non-functioning.  He died from blood loss within 60 seconds after collapsing.

After taking more than 50 hogs with a 5.56 over the last 4 years, I can tell you that the round is MORE than adequate.  I switched to 9mm because the 5.56 is so desctructive (it is a like a damn grenade in the animal) and I wanted somethign that *might* leave a little more spark in the hogs.

5.56 is dropping them in their tracks for the most part.

I shot the two recent hogs with a the 5.56 (not the 9mm) because I was in the middle of hunting coyotes when I came across the hogs.

Here is the hog I shot with the 9mm AR15.

[img]http://www.tvcc.edu/faculty/ballen/hogs/hog9mm2.jpg[/img]

TRG

Why?

TRG

I couldn't find a hunting forum. I didn't look too much in depth, but there wasn't an obvious one within the AR15 part of the board. Maybe I missed it, and if so, sorry. But thanks for your advice.

Hey RedGoat! What kind of 5.56mm ammo are you using on the hogs? Thanks in advance for the info.

Well, I was about to offer serious reservations about a .223 as a hog rifle, and then I read RedGoat's post. He seems to offer considerable experience of success with the .223 on hogs. I guess the right bullet is critical. I know from shooting groundhogs with the .223, that frangible bullets are not going to reach the vitals of a big hog. I have seen many instances of 50 and 55 grain ballistic tips not going through a groundhog's body, which surely indicates to me that such a bullet would be unsuitable for real hogs. Depending on how you will be hunting, a wounded hog can be a problem, and I would be very careful in selecting a proper bullet, and probably doing some testing too.

Great pictures TRG! I am wanting to benefit from your experiences with this caliber in the field. What kind of ammunition are you using that you are finding so distructive that you had to switch to a 9mm carbine. I have shot hogs with several different calibers and have used bows and arrows and pistols. I haven't  used the 5.56mm yet. You seem to to have good success with what you are using, and I would like to get some more details on your in the field testing. Thanks!

Elh0102,

I am not calling your post bullshit, but I am calling bullshit on the 5.56 'not reaching the vitals' as bullshit.

I have shot sooooo many hogs with the 5.56 that I have seriously lost count.

It will reach the vitals, it will break bones, it will penetrate and destroy hearts, lungs and livers.

I have had a single instance of a 5.56 'glancing' off a shoulder and exiting the throat, without entering the vitals.  The hog that took that hit was a small sow.  Under 125 pounds, and the hit was 'solid' not a raking shot.

The ONLY thing a 5.56 will not do is EXIT the hog.  You have a .223 caliber entry wound with very little blood.  I shot a small, (15 pound) piglet with a 5.56 and the round was sticking out under the hide on the opposit side.

FWIW, the glancing shot that exitted throat is the only hog I can recall blood trailing.  Everything else is 'DRT' Dead Right There.

Troy,

Having shot a FMJ 5.56 at hogs, both far and near, I can tell you it is much more explosive than it is creditted for being.

As for the accuracy thing, I am not a marksman.  I jokingly tell people I carry 30 rounds because I miss alot.  I take shots at hogs at close range, if posible.  If they are 300 yards out, I take shots at them as well.  If my sights cross the plane of a running hog and I think I have the proper lead, I fire.  

I am NOT concerned with shot placement.  I shoot center mass if possible.  I do not aim for hte head.  I just want a hit, nothing more.  the 5.56 does the rest.

I can say with confidence I have never lost a hog that I KNEW I hit.  

The last hog I shot was hit at Sub-[b]30[/b] yards.  It was a large boar and I hit him just behind his lungs.  He ran the furthest of any hogs the I have ever hit.  700+ yards.  My dog trailed and bayed him.

I suspect I hit him in his stomach.  Which, as you know, is not a 'vital' organ.  The round probably came apart in his acorn filled, balloon-bag, of a gut.

The largest boars have a cartlidge shield that will vary between 1/2-2" thick.  After that it is a set of ribs, and the larger, feral, hogs do not have the massive ribs that you think of when eating beef ribs.  They are less than 1/4-1/2" of bone.  After that it is all paydirt!  Heart, lungs, livers, spleens.  Lots of stuff that bleeds out a hog.

The 5.56 WILL consistently penetrate the necessary 3" of material and seriously destroy the vitals of even the largest boars, at all ranges that I have used it. 0-300 yards.

If I could get the little beasties to stand STILL at 500+ yards, I would be able to tell you how it performs at longer ranges.  Damn things are just too fast to hit at that distance. 30+ MPH (because they out run 25 MPH dogs!! LOL), at 500-700 yards using iron sights...offhand...and breathing hard from chasing hogs.  Just haven't made the shot yet, but it will happen.  [;)]  

TRG

PS. Hunting forum  [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/forum.html?b=1&f=11[/url]

It is in the 'General' section.

Trophies:

I don't take pictures of every hog, but I have taken enough trophies to know what I am talking about.

[img]http://www.tvcc.edu/faculty/ballen/hogs/hanging.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.tvcc.edu/faculty/ballen/hogs/hog170-1.jpg[/img]

TRG

I use South African Surplus, mostly.

I got a good deal on Q3131A and have used that for about a year now.  Lately I have switched back to the SA surplus.  Just had 600 rounds of it lying around and decided to use it up.  I mix  and match Q3131A and SA in a magazine.  I really don't care which one hit the hog.  They both do the trick

Hogs hit with a 5.56 tend to look like a grenade went off in the wound channel.  Meat is discolored with lead and fragments of jackets abound.

Since I eat every hog that I can drag out of the woods, I dislike the amount of bullet fragments in a the animal.  (yes, I make sausage using hearts, lungs, livers and kidneys...a German style Braunschweiger) so any damage meat is an issue.

Even a spinal hit causes tremendous amount of secondary wounding (jacket fragments, lead fragments) to the loins.

TRG

[img]http://home.mebtel.net/~hicksfam/deer.jpg[/img]

Win 64gr. Power Point Plus.  16" barrel. About a 40 yard shot.  OKO sight.  Drilled both lungs and exited the far side.  He ran about 100' and dropped stone dead.  Weighed about 165 lbs. on the hoof.  Tastes great!

Got my sixth and seventh deer with the AR this season. One about 150yds, the other 130. Both one shot kills thru the lungs with the Winchester Supreme 64grn. I can agree with the .223 on hogs. I got a 150lb sow this year. She was broadside at 100yds and took a step right when I pulled the trigger. I hit her dead center of the body, what we call a "belly hump".
I couldn't believe it but she melted and just kicked a few times. I never dreamed the .223 would do that! Good luck guys...

I killed a deer with my standard 20" A2 last year with a neck shot.  Distance was 252 steps (I'm 6'2").  Used the Hornady 60 grain V-max.  Bullet passed straight through with an exit wound of about 1/2".  Deer dropped straight down.  Personally, I wouldn't hesitate taking deer (I am talking about white-tails) shots out to 300yds with mine.  Hunting with FMJ isn't legal in KY so I can't comment on their performance.

Pretty much identical to the effect I have seen.

They melt.  That 5.56 is a bad motor-scooter.

TRG

I also have been hog hunting!  I use the winchester 64 gr cxp.  It is a soft point and works great!  It seem to me that the 223 gets in the body cavity and then runs all over!  A lot of fun to shoot and much more reasonable than a 270!  Happy hunting!

TRG,
Your use of FMJ ammo explains your experience with penetration on hogs, as compared to mine in regard to groundhog kills. If you were to shoot your hogs with 50 grain ballistic tips (and please don't), I think your results would be disappointing, as at least 50% of mine do not exit a standing groundhog. That is, maybe, 3" of fairly soft tissue.  It seems each bullet style is performing pretty much as it was designed. I certainly acknowledge your experience with ball ammo on hogs, perhaps you could consider the same courtesy.
Ed

TheRedGoat, nice hogs. What scope is that your using in the pics?

I never used my AR hunting before, not that I thought it wouldn't do the trick, but because I prefer my 870 in the thick pine rows down here. On a recent hunting trip to Alabama I just toated my AR to plink with at the hunting camp. When we decided we were going to try to walk up some hogs in some thick terrain I grabbed my AR opposed to the 7mm I took for the deer. I took this small boar with ease using Remington 55gr. soft points. The soft point decimated his spine. Took all the kick right out of him.


[img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/092278.jpg[/img]

Thanks for the info and the pictures TRG! This forum and this thread has been most informative.

Yes, thank you guys all so much for your help.

.223 and 5.56mm are NOT the same.



just for the record.

Oliver;

As a hunter, and a gun enthusiast.  I feel certain, as many have stated here, that the round we all love, will do the job.

However, if your talking SC, your out of luck this year.  I hunt there at least once if not twice a year, in the 96 area.  The season ends January 01, for all the good stuff.

Practice up, and be ready for next season, your gun will do the job.

Mike

Oliver hogs are huntable year round in S.C. on private land, and yes deer season closes after Jan 01. You can at least go down to S.C. and pop you a piggy. I wish you luck!

Courtesy?

I think you misunderstood my post.  I was not calling your info BS, but the concept that a .223 is not sufficient for hogs as BS.

I misunderstood that you were talking only about ballistic tips.  Sorry about that.

TRG

Oliver, Siglite and others.

I am glad I could help.  Hunting with an AR15 is a primary hobby of mine.  I try to get in the field at least twice per week.

An AR15 carbine, loaded with 30 rounds of FMJ, is unbeatable in my book for hunting.  

I can carry it all day and have enough firepower to get myself out of any hog situation.

TRG

PS.  The 'scope' is a Tasco ProPoint.  

Hey Siglite;

Is written permission enough on private land?

Mike

I believe Permission to hunt as granted by the landowner by verbal or mutal understanding is good enough in the state of S.C.  If you are going to be hunting close to someone elses land or lease I would get the permission in writing. Especially if the landowner is leasing the property out for farming just to be on the safe side.  

Man, RedGoat, I gotta come hang with you some time, lucky dog. Living in the city, I'm lucky to get to the range and shoot paper 2x a month.

Is there no limit to the capacity one can have in a mag in Texas or is that in only off season hog hunting? I know in Florida there's a 5 rd. limit during rifle season and no FMJs allowed at all.

That is a good question.
Every State is different in reguards to rules for hunting private and public land. I believe some states are more liberal with their laws pertaining to non game animals such as feral hogs. Feral hogs are considered pests in some areas because they compete for food and habitat with game animals. It would behoove everyone to check their local game laws, and let commonsense be their guide.