This thread is meant to replace the 33 page, year+ thread that is largely out of date and needed to be locked in order to get the most current info to those interested. Please bring your questions into this thread and I will attempt to answer them.

I know the biggest question is "WHEN?".  I have learned from a very frustrating year+ of dates that have come and gone for various reasons, some RRA related and some not.  We will be releasing the first production models of the LAR-8 very soon, but I will not even attempt to provide a specific date until they are actually shipping.  I will post that information immediately either in this thread or, more likely, in this forum.

There are 5 basic models of LAR-8, initially:  Mid A2 and A4, Standard A2 and A4, and the Varmint A4.  The only substitutions currently available on these basic models are Daniel Defense mid-and rifle-length "Lite" quad railed handguards.  More subs will be phased in once we've cleared some of the backlogs of orders.

As standard features, the Mids have 16" moly bbls with mid-length gas systems, 2-stage triggers, Hogue grips, 6-position CAR stocks, mid-length plastic handguards, and an A2-style flash hider.  The A2 has A2 sights front and rear, while the A4 has no sights...but the gas block does have a rail on top for mounting purposes.
The same basics hold true for the Standard models, except they feature 20" moly bbls, rifle length gas ssytems,  and A2 stocks.
The Varmint shares the same features and has an A4 upper, a 26" stainless bull barrel, free float aluminum tubular handguard, and crowned muzzle.

All of the barrels are 1:10 twist with 6 grooves.  The standard 20" bbl and mid-length 16" bbls feature a 5/8-24 threaded muzzle.

Standard features also include ambi mag catches (one on each side), an ambi bolt release, ambi charging handle.  An ambi safety compatible with the LAR-15 platform will also work in the LAR-8.  RRA's limited lifetime warranty is standard as well.

The LAR-8 is designed around the FAL magazine.  Both inch and metric pattern magazines work with the basic rifles, with no changes being required to use either type of magazine.  That said, there are (as with all mags) differing qualities of FAL mags available.  While most magazines that we have tested have worked, there are fit and feed issues with some magazines on the market.  The 30rd .308 Bren mags have worked (I have seen these described as both L4A1 and L7A1), but the 30rd Australian mags have not.  RRA is also tooling up to manufacture magazines in 5, 10, 20 and 30rd capacities.  Claims that the FAL mag and "AR" platform are incompatible are plain wrong.  If the platform is designed around a particular magazine, which is the case with the RRA LAR-8 and the FAL mag, it can certainly be made to use that magazine.

While there are many parts in common between the LAR-8 and LAR-15, the receivers and many caliber specific parts are not compatible between them.  Several other internal parts are also not compatible due to the design differences between the two platforms.  Any compatibility of caliber specific components between the LAR-8 and any other currently offered .308 (or .308 sized)platform is purely coincidental and not by design.

We plan a full line of accessories and upgrades for the LAR-8, with many already in development or production, but we will not be offering them initially.  These options would include stainless and chrome-lined barrels, carry handles and mounts, optional front sight housings on A4s (except the Varmint), grips, handguards, rails, and more. Subs and upgrades will be offered as we can fit them into our production capabilities and once some of the back orders have been cleared.  These subs and upgrades will be phased in over time. We plan to offer complete upper halves and lower halves once the back-log of current orders clears.  Most individual parts will also be available seperately.  Many, but not all, of these parts and components will also work in the Bushmaster .308 rifle that was previously sold by them and was based on RRA patents and designs, and which was similar to the current LAR-8 in many, but not all, ways.

A product specific manual, including exploded view of the rifle and its subassemblies and individual parts, will be provide with each rifle.

As time and opportunity allow, I will try to get some photos into this thread of various parts and pieces, as well as some of the rifles that we have been using in both parts and product testing.  Many of the parts have been revised since both the Bushmaster model was available and from the earliest RRA models were shown.  

We do appreciate both your interest in the LAR-8 and your patience with RRA as we have developed this product line.  Thank you for your perseverence and for sticking with us.

Steve/RRA

Saved for future comment.

Sounds good, Steve...



Forrest

I'm eagerly waiting on this one too

Sorry... I started another thred with a question on these rifles. Mods feel free to delete the other post.

Thanks for tacking this.  Wake me up when my rifles ship!

Hey, Steve, I'll be out of town for a short bit...

Don't assume that no answer to phone calls warning of impending shipping means that I don't want my LAR-8...

I do want it, you know...

Just ship to the shop (Hickman Rifles LLC)...



Forrest

Still no photos or schematics?  There have to be some.....

We don't share proprietary schematics, and photos are taking awhile...but they'll be up as soon as I can get them in here.  I'll try to get some of the more "interesting" features...such as the bolt relaese, charging handle, etc...Anyone got anything in particular they "need" to have pictures of...I'll do what I can.
Steve/RRA

hope I'm still on Eagle Firearms list for a mid A4 with the old price quoted

Good luck

We haven't changed any prices on the LAR-8 from those first announced over a year ago.  As a general rule, when price increases do occur between the time an order is received and it is shipped, we honor the price at time of order rather than at time of shipment.
Steve/RRA

Hey there all!  I've been keeping up with the 30-some page post since I placed my order back in February, but I just finally got ahold of an email address that would let me register and post.  

Quick question for Steve... I've been waiting patiently with everybody else here, but I *need* a rifle before the upcoming hunting season.  What are the odds that I'm going to have a RRA in my hands in time to get comfortable and be ready to go when the snow flies?  

Thanks for all the time keeping us informed, please keep up the good work!

It depends on the number of back orders that are cancelled when we call to verify the order, but if it's a February '07 order, you MIGHT see it in time...depending on "when the snow flies" in your area.  
Steve/RRA

I'm back...

I didn't miss the shipping of my LAR-8 while I was gone, did I, Steve?



Forrest

Forrest,
You would have felt the ripple in the Force.
Steve/RRA

Hey Steve, do you know what was the first month RRA started taking orders for the  LAR-8, I think my FFL ordered my rifle in Oct 06, along with 2 others.hinking
Thanks for your time,
Dawg

Hey Steve, any status on delivery? I want to beat any potential upcoming ban...the sooner you can ship, the better. :) I'd even be willing just to buy a complete lower (minus stock) if possible.

Believe me whan I say that we want to beat any future bans as well.  We're fighting that fight in Illinois almost daily.
We started taking initial orders at SHOT 2006 (February 06)...so we've got a few backorders to clear up before new orders will go.  We realize that some of theose early orders will be cancelled when we contact the customers, so exact dates for shipping later orders will be very dependent on how many of those early orders are cancelled at time of confirmation.
Steve/RRA

I was hoping that your lawsuit with Armalite was holding up the LAR, but i guess thats not the case is it?

Hey Steve.... Can I order a 7" 9 mm A4 pistol upper With a  MID LENGTH quad rail aluminum free float hand guard (+$125) A1 flash hider and a Gas buster charging handle (+70) from my dealer while I wait for my LAR 8 to be built?

Hey Steve I apologize if I'm beating a dead horse but I'm interested in a .308 rifle and at this point your MSRP which is what I'll be charged unfortunately since no local dealer sells for lower but it is a better price than a competitors rifle that is on sale and that I just put on hold until I put this out. If my FFL ordered one this week or next what are the chances I would have it by the end of the year NIL, SLIM or GOOD.

Stainless...possible to pretty likely.
Mike...no.  9" long handguard on 7" barrel would have your muzzle approximately 1.5" within the quadrail (assuming flash hider installed), which we won't do for safety reasons.  A CAR length tube could be installed..we would just have to leave off the "gas block".
Steve/RRA

Alright Thanks Steve. I just have to see how much my shop wants down on the rifle before ordering. I'm hesitant to put much down on one of these especially with the production issues this rifle has had.

Well I decided to stay with the M1A that was on sale and they were holding for me. The dealer wanted too much down for me to go agree with for a rifle that wasn't in production yet . I do hope you begin production soon because I'm eagerly anticipating what are sure to be the excellent reviews on this product.

Originally Posted By stainlessAR15shooter: Well I decided to stay with the M1A that was on sale and they were holding for me. The dealer wanted too much down for me to go agree with for a rifle that wasn't in production yet . I do hope you begin production soon because I'm eagerly anticipating what are sure to be the excellent reviews on this product.

IIRC, RRA doesn't require/accept payment until they ship the rifle, so it is the dealer holding your $$$$, not RRA.  If you really want the gun, you should look for another dealer that doesn't require a deposit for an open-ended order.


So, where's the pics of the M1A?

Damn, Steve, you guys got my adrenaline going today...

I noticed a charge on my cc from you guys and my mind immediately jumped to the conclusion that my LAR-8A2 had shipped...

Then I noticed the amount...

Only a LAR-15A4 complete upper that's been on order for a while...

Bummer...

(Not that I'm not happy to get the LAR-15 upper, mind you...)

Back to waiting...



Forrest

Steve,

When will we see the light at the end of the tunnel (shipping)??  I certainly hope before the end of September !! If the engraving is the hold up on the receivers, RRA needs to find another more reliable source.  Continued delays with no set target dates equates to lost customers, lost of prestige in the market place and lost of $$ as the end result.

I love my RRA Tact Entry and sure would like to add the LAR 8 to my rifles.

Not complaining just throwing out what some folks are thinking, but not saying.

Steve-Indy

Steve,
Certainly no arguments from us on any of your points.  We're doing everything we can to get the LAR-8 into the market (yes Forrest, that includes you).
Thanks (again) for everyone's persistence and patience.
Steve/RRA

Originally Posted By RRAMODERATOR: Steve, Certainly no arguments from us on any of your points.  We're doing everything we can to get the LAR-8 into the market (yes Forrest, that includes you). Thanks (again) for everyone's persistence and patience. Steve/RRA

Are you able to specify if the problem is in design tweaking, technical (machine time, etc), legal, other?

I don't have a dog in this fight yet, but I think if additional info is available it would reassure some of the more eager buyers.

Mike (and everyone),
By your terms, more "technical" than anything else.
Steve/RRA

Haven't picked it up yet I put it on layaway for 90 days . I visit this forum everyday hoping for some good news and that the 308's are shipping. If in the next couple of months the rifles start shipping I'll change my order but I didn't want to pass up the MIA since the local shop had them on sale and I'm very concerned about a new AWB passing and wanted a .308 caliber rifle before that happens. I know you guys don't need down payments but I honestly don't blame the shop since I would have done the same thing.

Hey Steve, how about throwing this old dawg a bone, someting like, the production line is ready to go or we are just waiting on a few production parts from other mfg's. I know many of us realy like RRA's quality. Ya know Fall 07 is just around the corner!  Still thanks for all the info you do share with us, just wanting more.

Dawg

Steve,

Any pictures or schematics available - yet?  Just want to see.  I am sure others do as well.

Thanks,
8654

Dawghowse...using your crtiteria, consider the bone thrown.
8654...I'll see what I can come up with regarding photos.  The photos in the catalog and on the website are real rifles.  I'll look into soem shots from different angles.
Steve/RRA

Did we ever get a definitive answer as to whether or not Slash's buffer will work to allow the use of various mil spec stocks? The last I read he was sending you one for testing…

I have the buffer here (about two feet from me, on my desk), but haven't tried it yet.  I'm going to have to "acquire"one of the demo/testing/T&E mid-length carbines and put the "wrong" stock on it to do so...and my access for testing an aftermarket product has a lower priority than continuous testing, demos, and T&Es at this time.  As soon as I can get one, even for an afternnon, I'll let you guys know what I find out.
Steve/RRA

No worries the answer won't really do me any good untill the rifles are available anyway.

Funny use of the word "wrong" though since IMO collapsible stocks other than the SOPMOD happen to feel "wrong", as in not right...

Thanks for the response, and I look forward to the results.

By the way, this all reminds me of something...

Thanks, Slash, for sending the buffer to Steve so that he has something else to play with...



Forrest

 Sent off my form 1 to the BATFE for a SBR today, so here's to believing I will be shooting my LAR 8 before my SBR.  If not, my FFL did tell me not to expect it until December.

If I place an order in the next few days do you have any Idea when it would ship?  I own a RRA currently in 223 and would like to stay with RRA but the wait may be to long.  I am trying to make do with a G3 but it is just not the same as a RRA black rifle.

Buff,
A new order will be awhile...probably late in the year.  We have to clear a pretty good number of orders already in hand, and we do so in date order.
Steve/RRA

Steve,

Can you help us out with some good photos?  Would love to see some close ups of the upper and lower.  I would think you could run some solvent over the test rifles, blast them off with air, and then take some pictures.  

Inquiring minds want to know... dedicated since SHOT 2006....

I'll see what I can do.  We don't do any of our glam shots in-house, but i'll see if I can scrounge a digital camera and get something going on some of the test rifles.
Steve/RRA

Steve,

Was mulling the whole RR 308 thing over and started to wonder if the reason for delay is NOT parts but contractual obligation to a litigated settlement.  Say a 6 month wait...?  Am I on to something?

Thx, nwobhm

Originally Posted By nwobhm: Steve, Was mulling the whole RR 308 thing over and started to wonder if the reason for delay is NOT parts but contractual obligation to a litigated settlement.  Say a 6 month wait...?  Am I on to something? Thx, nwobhm

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that if any such settlement existed, then it would have a non-disclosure clause in it for both parties.  I think Steve has been very open and honest about the progress made on the LAR-8.  I would just accept what says as the truth.  Steve is not going to give anyone the name and number for RRA's vendors so folks can call and bug them too.  No flame intended, just my .02.

Originally Posted By nwobhm: Steve, Was mulling the whole RR 308 thing over and started to wonder if the reason for delay is NOT parts but contractual obligation to a litigated settlement.  Say a 6 month wait...?  Am I on to something? Thx, nwobhm

nwobhm,

I mean absolutely NO OFFENSE to you or anyone else.  It's just that this 'law suit' business has reached the point of becoming not just comical but hysterically comical !!!

(Please see personal  disclaimer below.*)

I remember three times when ArmaLite defended its' intellectual property:

1)  ASA - taken to court and had the shit kicked out of them and ASA did pay.
2)  Bushmaster gave it a shot by using BAR-10 to help launch their .308 caliber.  Such a non-event this deal was settled between the two company CEO's.
3)  RRA and the LAR-10.  Maybe the same thinking as Bushmaster but only RRA knows for sure.  Such an awful, tyrannical struggle that RRA and ArmaLite ATTORNEYS SETTLED with 'zero' use of the court system.  (YAWN)  JaySUS KEEristopher.....not even an arbitrator was used. (YAWN, YAWN)

RRA always knew they were going to  settle and ArmaLite always knew they were going to accept settlement. (Yawn, Yawn. Yawn)

ANYONE who believes the RRA/ArmaLite tiff caused even 15 minutes delay in the LAR-8 development sells RRA's management short.  WAY SHORT.  RRA's management team has built a good company and good companies are not built by stupid management.

This trivial matter would have been given to RRA's attorneys by RRA management with HIGHLY technical instructions such as:  'Lemme know 'when' I'm supposed to sign.'

ArmaLite attorney instructions:  'Lemme know 'where' I'm supposed to sign.'

I spent years as President/Chairman of various small companies and I just can't tell you how perfectly ordinary the legal matters between RRA and ArmaLite really were !!Threatening litigation, faking litigation, feigning litigation and, once in a quadruple blue moon, actually litigating** is as much a part of American business as credicks and debits.

I still recall members stomping and howling both here in the RRA Industry Forum and in the ArmaLite Industry Forum screaming that ArmaLite would be put out of business over this !!  If you stompers, howlers and screamers could have seen RRA Steve and RRA's management laughing their collective as**s off you might have acted differently.  (Yeah RRA Steve, I know you can't admit it !! )

What's going on is as simple as it is complicated:***

RRA is attempting something never done before (to the best of my knowledge) and that's to make a non-FAL rifle work with FAL magazines.

To make any new rifle work with proprietary magazines is not exactly simple but to make a non-FAL weapon work with metric pattern, in spec, out of spec, never saw or heard of a spec magazines PLUS inch pattern in spec, out of spec, never saw or heard of a spec magazines has got to be BIG DIFFICULT !!!!!



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*I was the AR-10 & AR-180 Forum Moderator for a couple of years.  This Mod job reports directly and only to AR15.com management and is solely to insure the rules and regulations of AR15.com are followed.

**Good attorneys simply will not often let a client in front of a jury.

TRUE STORY:  

An employee once quit, left his car in our company parking lot, car was eventually repo'd by GMAC and then ex-employee sued us.  (Yes, I AM serious.)  

After three years, our attorneys practically forced me to sign a $100,000 settlement offer with this idiot.  (Yes, I AM serious.)

The idiot and his larger idiot attorney DECLINED the $100,000 settlement (Yes, I AM serious.)

Nothing left but to go before a jury in trial.  Jury DETESTED this fool and his attorney and awarded ZERO damages.  (Jury fought for 3 hours over where to give this guy 0 or $1.  One woman thought awarding a dollar might hurt if he tried to appeal.  We were exceptionally lucky.  We drew a very smart Houston jury.)

***Like much of my post, this is purely conjecture and speculation but based on years of business experience.

On Friday, I made my roughly every 60 day call to RRA sales.  (Gal I spoke with  was really funny !!)

Me:  

I see you removed the 'Late Summer' availability notice on the .308 from your web site a couple of days ago and that's good cause Sunday is the first day of fall.

Her:  You mean they finally removed it ??

Me:  Yep, now what's your next guess ??

Her:  FALL ??  (She MEANT to be funny !)

Me:  Come on....you gotta hear some good rumors floating around.........

Her:  (Now being serious)  We've been expecting lowers since June and I just don't know what else to tell you.


I thanked her for the candor and left her in peace.*



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*Until about December 1, 2007 that is.

RRA Steve, you see anything wrong with either of my posts please edit as you see fit.


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Nuttin' beats an honest answer IMHO!!!