Palmetto State Armory's new PA10 line is designed to work best with Palmetto State Armory Parts.     Please post any questions about the new PA10 here.

Ill buy the bolt and charging handle if you buy one with it. I ordered a upper with out a BCG :(

I have ordered two of these now (16" first, which is now my son's and later, the 18" with the NiB BCG for me) and neither came with the MI accessory rails.  I got some from MI and they took about 1 1/2 weeks to come to AZ.  I think they were out of town for a show that weekend I ordered, so you may get yours earlier.

ETA:  I also forgot to mention that the earlier one had the incorrect small buffer and spring setup, and I finally received my replacement in the mail late last week.  Thank you, PSA.  I'm off to the range to test fire and sight-in both tomorrow.

I don't work for anyone in the firearms industry (because this seems to be some kind of point that has to be clarified before being believable) but I used to, in a store that my father owned.  We had a similar situation to what I'll surmise here:

Just speculating that maybe they didn't have any bolts for sale as standalone items, and perhaps the employee took one out of a kit to give to you.  They would have been reluctant to do so, because that would leave them with a kit they cannot sell.  Just sayin' there may be more to the story and perhaps they weren't just blatantly lying to you.

gsparks, there's always the option of selling that POC upper you have and going out and buying a much more expensive one.  Your BCG is no worse or better than any on the market.  An expendable part broke right away. s*%t happens.  You are not the first nor will you be that last that has ever happened to.  I've seen high end carriers shed their keys and bolt lugs break off brand new bolts after 3 rounds were fired from a new, name brand and very expensive custom made upper.  I've seen brand new barrels that would not hold 4 MOA where a piece of one of the lands had broken off at the muzzle after 20 sub MOA shots were previously fired.  A week of trouble shooting and it was finally discovered after we decided to remove the flash hider and return the barrel to Brownell's.  Sir, you had a part fail, you got a replacement, quit whining, PSA did you right.  Take out your frustrations killing dirt instead of killing and wasting time boo-hooing.  Life is too short for so much stress.  Besides, it's Christmas.

I studied electrical engineering tech at ITT and Purdue, a medaled Navy engineer for five years, worked in the private sector as a building engineer for another five years and currently working in the home business for over 20 years.  I know a little about machines, customer service and doing the right thing.  I understand things break, even new things.  I just don't appreciate having to beat PSA to do the right thing by repairing my rifle. Then lying to me on top of that sucks.  I don't care if they have to take a bcg from another rifle, that's their problem.  Further I don't care about your opinion.  Calling me a whiner just reflects badly on you and any other person who's willing to except that kind of crap from any retailer.  I know you all love PSA, it's obvious by the way you're guarding this website.  Why I don't know, honestly it's kinda creepy. But that's another issue.  

I do like my PSA products.  I just hate the way I was treated and still feel like the inside of my rifle was scraped up because I could hardly cycle the bolt due to the parts locking it up.  Not to mention the possible barrel/breach damage caused by the ejector that could not be found.  Who knows what happened to it, Maybe It went down the barrel on the previous shot possibly damaging the rifling.

The purpose of my ranting is to help PSA become a better company by holding them accountable for their products and personnel.   It's like making your kids do the right thing even when it hurts. Understand?

The manager at PSA said the quality control person would want to speak with me about the issue. Obviously he thought it was a serious enough of an event to warrant the attention of higher ups.  However there still is no follow up from PSA at all. A lie.

So please keep your personal insults and half ass tech talk to yourselves.  Until you learn how to respect others and educate yourself on firearms I'm not interested in your comments.

gsparks... others are trying to tell you nicely to quit pissing in this thread.  This was a constructive thread until you derailed it.
This thread is not for this.  Start another thread and carry on all you want.
me

Telling the truth is now called pissing.  You sound as dull as the others.  Honestly I've said all I need to say.  Good luck to anyone who ever needs help from PSA.  When their low prices start to go away, and they will, then so will their company.

I have not insulted you....but you make blanket statements such as "Half Ass Tech Talk"

I know more about firearms than you think...

as explained by myself and others....did you ever stop to think that the "Lie" was not intentional but maybe a product of circumstance...

we are not defending any one  person or even PSA as a whole...

what we are doing is saying that you may have too high an expectation for some result...that from the beginning does not even sound warranted...

Maybe the manager thought that QC wanted to talk to you....then QC said something along the lines of "It was just a pin that broke" so there was in fact no reason to talk to you...

they replaced a bolt that they not only did not need to  be replace (as there was nothing wrong with it) but were also under no obligation to do so.

how does that golden rope feel?

this

By looking at the date he joined its obvious he only joined this community to flame PSA.

i think you are right. i think all of his post count is from this very thread. some people.....

"Obviously he thought it was a serious enough of an event to warrant the attention of higher ups"

Obviously they didn't think the failure of an expendable roll pin was a serious enough issue...and it isn't.  That, or the store manager just told you that to get you to leave?  Perhaps, given enough time, someone will eventually contact you but, I would think they may be far too busy this time of the year to be too prompt considering the minor nature of the failure and the fact that they've already replaced the BCG.  Note:  It's a very smart and good thing to always have a bolt parts replacement kit in your inventory that includes an extractor, ejector, pins and springs.  They are all expendable parts and, as you found out, when a $.25 roll pin fails (and they do more often than you know) you generally will lose the part it held in place.  My kit is always in my range bag and in my pack when hunting.  In fact, I have one in each.  Cheap insurance that can save a day or even a complete expensive hunting trip.  AR's are funny that way.  They are simple machines made with simple, and often cheap, parts.  As such, the cheapest of the parts is often what causes the most failures in the machine.  Even planes crash if the right tiny part fails.

Well, since PSA decided to send me the same bolt catch as I had already I found my own solution to the problem.  A simple modification to the upper edge of the bolt catch button that eliminates all contact with the upper receiver, and damage, when the button is pushed.  I just honed it off to the contour of the area on the upper where it was making contact  with a fine diamond file plus, enough to leave a small space with the button fully depressed.  After the mod, a little cold blue and you'd think it was original and a little aluminum blackener on the receiver ding and it all but disappears.

Modified button:



No contact:



Now if we could get PSA to make this simple modification in the manufacture of their bolt catches it would, at least, stop the damage to the upper receivers I'm sure all of you are experiencing...and maybe haven't noticed yet.  I have a direct contact with a CS rep at PSA who I sent these pics, and more, to.  So, hopefully, something will be done for future buyers...or maybe even the rest of you also.

Original damage after only a few operations.  I'm certain it would have gotten much worse over time considering the sharpness of the original button edge (and the edge of the replacement they sent):

Thanks....for sharing I will do that to mine as soon as I get it...

All ar15 end plates should fit right? I'm still waiting on various lower parts, and wanted to pickup an end plate with QD connections.

They should...

the tri qd endplate from damage industries and similar will not fit.

Thanks for the heads up, I really like the kley-zion 3qd on my ar15, which is really similar. That one also keeps my stock from going all the way in on my ar15.

Right now I'm looking at the strike industries qd end plate, it's a totally flat design, so hopefully it's good to go.

Lapriester that is exactly what I did to mine as well.
(Would have quoted but new folks are limited to no more then 2000 characters...oooooohhhh... )

Need an answer to this.  I hope I didn't order the wrong rail. Your SS15 PA10 rifle kit says this:




 

It uses the dpms low pattern talked about here

well that was the first time ive seen a, what i guess is a deffinate answer lol

I can confirm that DPMS low lines up perfectly. I have a 12" version of this: http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=1209

You need the MI-308SS12-DL for a 12" or the MI-308SS15-DL for a 15".  That would be .150 upper tang.  If they put "Midwest Industries 15" SS15G2 Rail" on the description for the PA10 upper that is incorrect.  That part number is for a 15" AR15 rail.  So yeah, if you ordered that it will not work.  Research, research, research when dealing with PA10's.  It's the only way you can be sure of anything.  The fact that the rail you needed was a DPMS style low, .150 tang, is all over this Forum.  Lesson learned, don't rely on any descriptions PSA puts in their Website.  Quite often they are incorrect or incomplete.  Nature of the PSA beast unfortunately.

Note:  If you want to spend less money and won't mind a 13" rail, UTG now offers their UTG Pro Slim in a DPMS low .150 tang HG.  It has a better HG mounting system than the Midwest anyway.  That's what is going to go on my PA10 upper in 7mm-08.

I sent you a message.

I did that research.  When it was listed on PSAs website as part of their rifle kit, I thought that was a sure thing.  

I have a couple Midwest on rifles because they came with them...including my PA10.  I'd probably never buy one since I'm not into the LocTite, clamp on thing they call a HG mounting system with an exposed barrel nut.  The 308 model is also quite heavy and bulky.  The UTG, on the other hand is made in the US, has a killer proprietary barrel nut that doesn't have to be indexed for the gas tube, securely fastens with six countersunk screws and hides the barrel nut completely.  Model is MTU020SSC

Any plans to offer just the bolt carrier?  I'm getting an upgraded bolt, so definitely don't need to get any complete bcg's.  Not that they're in stock anyways.

I'd take a bolt off someone if a fair price could be worked out, I'd like a spare

These are almost identical to the BCG supplied by PSA and a decent price shipped free.  Tried it and the fit and headspace was perfect in my new PA10 upper.  I bought another PA10 upper and plan a 260 Rem build in the near future.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XAIMBCG308BDG&name=AIM+.308%2f7.62x51+BDG+Phosphate+Bolt+Carrier+Group&groupid=929

Do the PTAC 308 lowers require an AR10 pistol grip or would a magpul MOE+ work?

Cool. Thanks for the info

The rear detent spring does come out in the hand grip so if the sides are not solid then the spring will fall out. You could always cut the spring then thread and plug the hole. I got a grip from LaRue and it worked perfectly.

The beavertail extension on the back of the Magpul + grip, or with any grip that has one, will not fit flush against the shape of the PA10 lower in that area.  There is a gap when it's installed.  Not that noticeable but definitely there and there's no way to correct it.  I still put my + on the lower since it's what I had and I bought one a specific color.  Had I known PSA was going to muck up the shape of the lower so currently manufactured enhanced grips wouldn't work properly I would have gotten a grip without the beavertail extension.  I considered filling the gap with black silicone but decided that was even too anal for me.  The Magpul fits well enough and holds in the detent spring fine.  If I have it apart again I'll thread the detent hole and put in a set screw.

New member here, first post.  I picked up my PA10 stripped lower receiver from my local FFL just this week and had some trepidations on how to proceed.  I consolidated much of the trails and tribulations others have experienced into a sort of Q&A format, but because I am limited to but a mere 2000 characters per post, posting of it in its entirety will have to wait.

1)  I an not fond of the preconfigured uppers with stainless steel barrels, when will 18" and 20" manganese phosphate steel barrels be available either separately or included with pre-built upper assemblies?  
2)  What is the thread pitch of the barrels at the upper receiver end?  I know the muzzle end seems to be standard 5/8"-24 for muzzle breaks/flash suppressors.
3)  Can a barrel from another company (e.g. ArmaLite) be used on the PA10 without any special machining and cost?

Much appreciated
Darryl

"What is the thread pitch of the barrels at the upper receiver end?"
AR barrels are not threaded at the receiver end.

"Can a barrel from another company (e.g. ArmaLite) be used on the PA10 without any special machining and cost?"
PA10 receivers accept DPMS style barrel extensions, DPMS style bolts and BCG's, DPMS low .150 tang handguards and DPMS barrel nuts.  I don't believe barrels for other AR10 configurations will be compatible (Armalite, RRA etc) .  PA10's are very proprietary and you need to do a lot of research to be sure what will work and what will not when you build an upper and especially when you choose which lower to use or build a lower from a PA10 stripped.  Most of what you need to know you can get here if you search, search, search.  You may wait a long time to hear what you need to know from PSA and then you may, or not, be able to fully trust what you're told since, even they don't seem to know completely.  Smart money, if you don't do your research and a lot of it, is to go PSA/PA10 on everything.  It's the only way to know that everything will fit.  It's a very proprietary beast added to the already extensive list of AR10 configurations that are not compatible with each other.

As far as your lower, be sure to buy all PSA PA10 parts to assemble it.  Lower parts kit, lower build kit, whatever, needs to be PA10 and be sure to research what triggers will work since not all enhanced triggers will.  Don't make the same mistakes I did and go out and buy a DPMS style part kit to assemble your lower.  It won't work.  Pivot and takedown pins, bolt catch and mag catch are all PA10 proprietary parts available only from PSA and the bolt catch is installed like an AR15, with a roll pin instead of the threaded pin on a DPMS.  If you only buy a PA10 LPK you can use a standard carbine buffer tube, short DPMs 308 buffer and 27 coil DPMS style 308 spring. With PSA's PA10 tube you must use an AR15 standard length "H" buffer and a 27 coil DPMS style 308 spring since the tube is longer (for no good reason BTW).  With a rifle tube you use a DPMS style shorter 308 rifle buffer and a DPMS style 308 rifle buffer spring.  Best bet, to assure you have the exact parts you need for the lower, is to buy a complete PA10 lower build kit directly from PSA.  Even then,  if you buy a complete lower build ki you'll have to check to make sure they send the right longer H buffer and 308 27 coil spring.  They don't always and receiver damage will result if you use an incorrect buffer.

Confused yet?  Well, you're not alone.  

Are the PA10 bolts MPI? (I assume they are not)

Hmmm... the AR-15 has a barrel that is secured to the upper requiring an armorer's wrench, the AR-10 platform does not?  The PSA website would indicate differently, so maybe the wording was not completely correct, but the barrel is more or less, screwed onto the upper.  The upper has a thread pitch and I was curious if the PA10 upper thread pitch is "standard" so that a non-PSA DPMS patterned barrel can be inserted into a PSA upper.  If PSA can't/won't offer 18" or 20" barrels that are not stainless steel (SS) I would have to source purchasing the barrel elsewhere.  If the PA10 can only accept PSA barrels then it is time for me to shelve my PSA lower and start gathering components from another AR-10 vendor - hence a lost customer.  Sure, I could by a completed upper from PSA but again, I don't want SS barrel and don't want a carbine length .308 barrel.  PSA I feel is missing an opportunity.  I am not privy to their marketing or management meetings and it appears to me their selection of barrels is limited to choices someone there prefers (SS over black nitride) vice broadening their product line of barrel choices.

Thanks for the information concerning the buffer, recoil spring, and buffer tube.  I spent hours trudging through many posts here and have all that documented, your posts as a matter of fact referenced.  Once that was figured out it all makes logical sense.  PSA needs a pictograph or something similar as seen at Dominos for applying toppings so that those at PSA who assemble lowers or package kits know what is compatible.  Think of all the money lost in terms of packaging and postage let alone cost of parts sent out because the folks in the back shop don't know any better.  AS9100 process control would be nice addition to their business model.

Me confused?  Just a little in reference to barrel application with a PSA PA10 upper as I haven't seen any posts address this question..

Darryl

The barrel is attached via a nut that is a separate entity. You push the barrel into the receiver and then slide a nut over the barrel which retains the barrel on a shoulder. My stepbrother put an Odin rail and a Rainier Arms barrel on his so it is standard. Odin did send him 2 different barrel nuts to use, as they weren't sure which one it was.

So... a DPMS patterned barrel OTHER than a PSA barrel can be used; but it would seem there could be a different pitch on the receiver for the barrel nut based on the manufacturer of the upper receiver?

It would be nice if PSA would chime in here and clarify this and not be so silent on this matter, specifically what is the thread pitch on the PA10 upper?

The pitch appears to be the same. Odin says that there are 2.0" and 2.06" from bottom of the upper to the top of the rail and you need the correct adapter for rail height.

Odin 308 KMod

A MI SS barrel nut for DPMS .308 receivers works fine so I'd assume any DPMS .308 pattern barrel nut should work.

"But the barrel is more or less, screwed onto the upper"  You are completely incorrect.  You REALLY need to understand how AR's are put together before you start building an upper.  You don't have a clue based on your comments.  I'm not being critical, just factual and not intending to insult you.  Friends just don't let friends put together rifles if they appear to know very little about the process. Right now, I wouldn't let you put together an upper and would gladly do it for you, while you watched, if I was anywhere near you.  AR15 barrels do not screw into the upper receiver using an armorer's tool.  The barrel extension slides into the receiver and a barrel nut is used to secure the barrel to the receiver using an armorer's tool tool and torqued to the proper spec while lining up the gas tube hole.  

PSA puts DPMS style low profile .150 tang Midwest Gen2 SS 308 HG's on their rifles which uses a DPMS style/pitch 308 barrel nut so a DPMS 308 style barrel nut will have the correct pitch.  You are seriously overthinking this.  ANY DPMS style 308, 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 Rem barrel etc will work in your PA10 upper and any DPMS style, low profile, .150" tang FFHG will work with it's associated barrel nut.  Brownells, CBC, Sota, RRA, DPMS, Black Hole Weaponry, sellers on eBay, blah, blah, blah sell DPMS style barrels that will work BUT, note I said DPMS.  What you are failing to understand is that the 308 AR game is a very proprietary game.  Armalite won't fit RRA, RRA won't fit DPMS, Armalite won't fit DPMS and DPMS won't fit either of those others and the list goes on.  I just read that yet someone else is designing another type of 308 AR that uses ALL proprietary parts that won't fit anything from any other manufacturer nor will their parts fit it.  Just what we need.

You need a DPMS style 308 barrel, made by anyone, with a bolt mated to the barrel or one where headspace has been verified.  It's really as simple as that.  The process of putting a 308 upper together is no different than it is for an AR15 upper.  It's just bigger and you need to be very careful that you have correctly matched parts.  I suggest you go on You Tube and search "assemble an AR upper"  You'll find it educational and it will simplify your life.  AR uppers are like Leggos.  They are simple to build as long as all the parts fit together right.  I can build an upper in about an hour including lapping the receiver and bedding the barrel extension.  Even a caveman can do it but it ALWAYS helps if you can find someone to walk you through the process the first time.  You Tube is what I used to show me how to build my first.  Even then, I watched about a dozen videos and used what I felt were the most logical steps based on all of them.  Be careful, though, some of the YT stuff is pure garbage.  Cavemen can do the work fine but, Bubba?  Well he's another story altogether and he lives on YT in several dark and scary places.

Save yourself some headache and buy one of the PSA 18" mid-gas uppers on sale, take it apart and send the barrel out for a Black Oxide or Ceracoat coating.  In the end you'll be money ahead and reduce your stress factor by 200%.   Here's a link that lists several sources for having the Black Oxide finish done:  http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-131122.html

Thanks for your concern and retort, but its tone was quite unnecessary and unappreciated.  I had a simple question that could have been answered with the content your last response included.  ANY DPMS barrel will work and if you cared to have noticed I too specified DPMS in my initial inquiry, it didn't have to a PSA supplied barrel (concern was a proprietary barrel nut).  Yes, I am quite familiar with the proprietary nature of the .308 platform, so no I haven't failed to understand the nature of the beast.  Again, the reason for my original post - to ascertain whether or not the PSA .308 barrel was also proprietary in some form or another.  Yes, I used the wrong terminology, I already acknowledged that fact, barrel is pressed/inserted into the upper receiver and retained by the barrel nut, I know that.  I spent 8 years in the Corps, I know all about the function and assembly of an M16-A2 and the AR-10 is no different of a platform in terms of function and assembly.  Again, thank you for clarifying the original question I had pertaining to the barrel.  Again, I appreciate the concern you have made albeit worded poorly.  I am not a Butter-Bar fresh out of OCS, I am not wet behind the ears and there is plentiful of research archived on my workstation for this very project.  Take care.

Actually, this isn't a PSA thing, it is an AR10 thing. It seems "large frame" for lack of a better term has this issue. There are grip wedges from a couple different sources, check this out:

https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1583187

Little late to the party but I believe the DPMS barrel nut thread pitch is 1.4375-16 UN-2A.


Not that any manufacturer will tell you what the thread pitch is, they usually just say DPMS pattern.

Well, I just knew you would take it the wrong way.  But, you certainly sounded like a "Butter-Bar" from the very beginning.  The fact is you have done what hundreds of others have done.  Bought what is, in some ways another FUBAR and unique 308 AR platform that uses proprietary parts, some of which you must use to build a rifle that will function and not destroy itself.  Were you and armorer in the Marine Corps?  How many M16/AR rifles did you break down into individual parts?  How many did you build back to viable rifles from individual parts?  1, 5, 10, none?  Your wording would indicate none.  If that's the case that would make you a "Butter-Ball" in rifle assembly and not quite ready to complete your current project successfully unless you get lucky. I was in the Military too, in the 70's and had my M16 apart for cleaning many times.  LOL, that sure as hell didn't make me a qualified rifle assembler.  If it broke it got handed back to the armorer, or, in battle, thrown in the mud and another picked up that worked.  Now, I have a couple dozen builds under my belt so I know AR assembly pretty darn well.  I've built, successfully, 6.8SPC, 300BO, 277 Wolverine, 5.56, 308 AR's. Still the PA10 was a PITA for me to get right because of the lack of information PSA provides anyone trying to build their own.  You see, it's obvious they would rather you bought complete uppers and lowers.  They discourage people  through lack of information just like they've already discouraged you.

Take what I've told you any way you choose but, choose wisely.  Assembling a firearm is something you need to do correctly.  PSA isn't going to give you more help than telling you to buy their parts to be sure everything fits and works correctly.  That's all they've said from the beginning concerning this platform. Search for all the resources you need to and good luck with your project.  Based on what you've said so far, you'll need that luck.  Know you can do it right before you begin or leave the parts in a box and have someone qualified do it.

It appears those are only for the MIAD grip system and not the grip I have.  Doesn't look like the solution unless I'm missing something.

Ok, now I'm confused again.  I'm getting ready to buy a hand guard for another PA10 upper I'm building.  Everyone around here, including myself, has been saying that the PA10 upper uses a DPMS low profile hand guard.  So, to be absolutely sure, I go on Google and search for what the difference is between a DPMS low and DPMS high and how you measure it.  Every link that came up says you measure the tang above the charging handle to determine what you have...low or high.  A high would have a tang measuring 3/16" and a low would have a tang measuring 1/8".  Well, here's the rub.  The PA10 upper receiver has a tang that measures 3/16".  By all the sources I can find on the Internet, that makes the PA10 upper a high profile upper requiring a high profile DPMS LR308 handguard.  What am I missing here?    These friggin' PITA PA10's get more frustrating every time I turn around.  I've found a short term killer price on UTG Pro DPMS 308 handguards and  want to buy one but now I have no idea what to buy.  HELP!!