PSA,

You killed it at SHOT this year. You have so many exciting projects on the horizon it is not only impossible to ignore you, but it actually makes folks nervous that you will screw it up- that's because we are all extremely hopeful that you will succeed in pulling it off.

Bandwidth is limited in any size organization, and resources will need to be divided between alllll these different projects. I want to urge you that when the time comes to allocate scarce resources... and tough decisions need to be made... cut one of the projects designed to compete with an already-available better-weapon from an OEM-source on price, and THROW IN EXTRA BEHIND THE JAKL.

This is something truly unique and exciting from you guys. It has a lot of potential. If you don't screw it up or "Gen"-it-out, it will be a must have like a CZ Scorpion.

That being said I wanted to separate the JAKL from the $300 generic Glock thread (aren't real Glocks about $400 all over the country?) and get some discussion going separately. Very bad ideas are starting to seep into that thread, as with twist rate, and smart decisions need to be made.

So here are my unsolicited good ideas:

TWIST RATE - should be 1:8 in .300 BLK, and should be 1:7 in 5.56.

GAS SETTINGS - should be un-suppressed, suppressed super, suppressed sub, and OFF. Don't miss out on the opportunity to take advantage of your main-thing-here.

HAND GUARD - Just run it as a monolithic extrusion, complete with the receiver. Don't make a separate plastic hand guard. Separate receiver and hand guard would only make sense if you were going for something modular- and it has been said different receivers for different calibers.

LOWER RECEIVER - I see two designs using pistons, not in need of a buffer, and both using AR-15 lug distance for compatibility. Both are using gap-plate spacer doohickeys to blend it in to the rear. These are the BRN-180 and the JAKL. BRN-180M receiver has the built in 1913 rail. Can you use that? Call them up- they'll even put your name on the side.

THE DOOHICKEY - just have it as an add-on in a drop down for folks who buy the upper and want to mount it to an existing SBR'd lower.

THE STOCK - I dig the triangle folder and I know why you did it. It looks like it was the right length for something with a shorter receiver or closer hinge though. I'd call SBT and see if they can take an inch or two off.

Here are my bad ideas that should be ignored:

MODULARITY - Imagine if it had a MRP-ish barrel change? If you could locate the port in the same spot and size it correctly for each caliber, you could use the same everything-else.

ENHANCED CONTROLS - What else can you guys do to further differentiate the JAKL... maybe drop a Norgon-ish ambi catch, Maritime-ish BHO, and ambi selector in with them? With your buying power, you could do this cheap.

Where’s the “like” button when you need one. I don’t bother checking this thread often because of that incredibly rude know-it-all trying to dictate what we should all want.

May have to start a new thread to get this concept through his bomb-shelter-thick skull.

And I really hope @palmettostatearmory isn’t listening to this tool of an OP as he does not speak for the masses.

Thanks for bumping it, homey!

I lost track of this one.

Actually, it would be wise to listen- and I'm sure they are. Technical discussion regarding the specs and things like human factor engineering are infinitely more helpful than a gaggle of neckbeards crying "Why can't I have it yet? When will you sell it to me? It better be CHEAP! When will you sell me something that looks like an MP5 for CHEAP? I want a fake Glock!" when undertaking a project like this.

With no new information released, all I can continue to say is that it doesn't matter if it takes some extra time, or adds to the price- it needs to be a first time GO and not some genn-ed out and into to the grave product, or a stillborn effort.

It would be wise to study the lesson of Masada --> ACR too.

Lets take a shot every time he's a know it all, says something cringey, or when he types the phrase "short and quiet" for the 456454136984th time

I'm roughly 3 bottles of old no. 7 in, it's going great.

JAKL is for going SHORT and QUIET.

This project has the potential to completely change the company, and has attracted the attention of a new market segment of serious folks.

It is now up to BIG MAN DALE to deliver!

No pressure. We can wait as long as it takes, and it doesn't matter if the cost goes up... but good work Josiah for padding the entire catalog to spread out the JAKL costs.

(...and also it's OK to reallocate some of the funding for other projects into JAKL if it results in a FIRST TIME GO upon delivery to market.)

9 more shots for me

Damn, son... you gonna be hammered before noon.

You are aware at the start of this thread you said it shouldn’t cost more than $500 for an upper? I said it should be more in line bcm upper costs and you shot that down.
You keep saying it’s for going short and quiet. Why are you limiting the rifle?  There’s a zillion companies all with their short and quiet 300 blackout. Heck Palmetto already has one. Why not conceive of the platform as an improved ar platform? Improved ergonomics, improved reliability.  I don’t see any reasons why the Rifle wouldn’t work as a 14.5. Provided the rail was longer.

You also keep ascribing attributes to people which are pretty much untrue. You also keep acting like palmetto currently has some stigma. The reality is their weapons are fantastic. Between my dad and I we’ve owned over ten. I can’t actually remember any of them malfunctioning. Maybe instead of lashing out and sounding stupider every time you could try and listen, learn, and discuss.
If nothing else do it for our sakes, we’re all quite wasted due to this new game.

Hey.. I'm trying to forget about the ACR and Masada stop bring it up...  

PSA is going to come out with the JAKL the way they think it should be. Us debating about what configuration we would like to be likely would be irrelevant.

However we could have a discussion about what configuration on how we may like it.. but we shouldn't be insulting or name calling. Let us discuss about why you don't agree or agree with what is said.

Based on their prototype I doubt they would screw it up.. I do plan to buy it. PSA has made some really great stuff. It's really remarkable to see how much they have grown.

PSA JAKL is for SHORT AND QUIET!

I don't think that's true.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who told them NOT to do a separate plastic handguard as they mentioned at SHOT, and now it looks like the revised receiver will stay monolithic.

They still haven't mentioned twist rate, but a useless twist would result in a stillborn effort.

Question for any silencerco hybrid owners, SiCo says the minimum barrel length for blackout is 8” but the PSA JAKL is supposed to be 7.5”
Y’all think it’ll be an issue to run my hybrid on there? Probably a rookie question but it’s my first can and I’m not lookin to void my warranty or blow it off the end of the barrel lol

Issues would likely result in design change like their other firearm.   If I recall their AKV had an issue. Unfortunately the customer is the final testbed due to low sample testing.

OMG... and the AK, and the AR-10 type, and the 9mm ARs... wasn't there a PSA 1911 at one time?

That was my point- they need a first time GO or they will be stuck with only that old customer set to sell to.

In the latest interview they mentioned the 300 barrel length would be 8.5”

That is correct. The 300 will be 8.5."

Thanks,

Josiah

Was not aware of this! Awesome news for me and other Hybrid noobs out there
Thanks for the info

I understand the JAKL as a complete firearm will be released first. How long will it take to start selling uppers only? I already have a couple of lowers waiting. Will they be a couple of weeks behind or months behind?

It does seem very odd they’re doing that. I guess they’re just wanting to have as few problems out of the gates as possible. I too have several lowers waiting for a jakl but 🤷‍♂️, I’ll probably just buy a whole rifle cause I’ll lack patience.

shhhh! (don't say that in hear, we want them to think everyone will wait for the uppers so they come out faster!)

As we get closer to launch, we will know more then.

Thank you,

Josiah

Has anyone seen the overall length when folded for either?

Awesome, glad to hear! That’ll make 3x 8.5” 300BLKS for me then.

I dont imagine it would be much different than a standard AR with the same length barrel.  Put a 8.5" barrel on a milspec lower with no buffer tube and measure it.  maybe add an inch for whatever sort of adapters and hinges you want to run.

Yep

I'd guess a little less than 20" folded, judging by my similar but not identical guns

So in reviews I believe they’ve said you’ll ruin the barrel if you remove it. What if the threads aren’t concentric?  As some have pointed out, this gun is for going short and quiet(even though there’s shorter options around).  I’m planning on dropping a suppressor on this thing, but if the threads aren’t concentric that puts a crimp in the plans.

Any decent AR barrel should have concentric threads, so I can't imagine they would drop the ball on the barrels on these

The threads absolutely should be concentric. As with any manufacturer you will want to check concentricity before firing any firearm with a suppressor.

Thank you,

Josiah

Any updates on when this is expected to start going out? I’ve got rifle fever.

I don’t know, but Brownells just sent me an email saying they’re accepting preorders for the 10.5” 300BLK BRN-180 uppers...

Maybe PSA will follow suit soon

I just talked with the head of engineering. He said that it is coming, but some other projects such as the AK103, 74, GF4, AR-V, Dagger etc. have pushed the JAKL back a bit. We are going to be releasing the JAKL, I just do not have an exact timeframe at the moment.

Thanks,

Josiah

As we are half way through Q3 and we haven’t heard anything I am betting on an early Q4 release.

Since this will use a lot of similar and even some interchangeable parts as a regular AR and be able to use the same tooling for manufacturing, unlike the MP5, DAGR, etc, I am betting we’ll actually see these on or closer to their projected release date. The only wild card is raw materials which I imagine are hard to come by with all the manufacturers trying to capitalize on the gun buying spike.

Is everyone else refreshing the page every hour to see about release date news? I thought if I was subscribed I would get notifications.

The question now is- will the Gen2 revision make it out before the Ban hits.

What is the length of the handguard going to be relative to the 8.5" barrel? Something like 7.5" I hope.

Edited to add: I REALLY want to get a JAKL upper, but if there is simply not enough real estate on the handguard to mount my accessories on, I'll be forced to take a longer look at the BRN-180. FWIW, the BRN solved this with a cutout in the top of the handguard.

Frankly, I like like a number of things about the JAKL better, but a short little rail is just a deal-killer for me. YMMV.

Agree that a simple cutout on the side would be the perfect design and I really hope that gets integrated. Almost every AR15 rail manufacturer has a version with this so they work with adjustable gas blocks. I can live with it for the JAKL if I need to over the reciprocating charging handle that the BRN-180 has. I do not like the concept of reciprocating charging handles.

Nobody?

Lol. K. 247 gr cast and powder coated subs are my favorite thing to shoot out of my 300 BLK.

I’ve asked this question as well and never gotten a good answer. In the  designs I’ve seen they look foolishly short. Basically carbine length handguard for 300 blackout. About 4-5”.  And probably 7” for the 5.56

1/7 would be the best compromise. Although I like the idea of cast projectiles.

I understand you don’t have an exact timeframe but can you answer the question we all want to know, will it be released before November?

Don’t you mean January 6?

I mean November. If Biden is elected things are going to be even harder to get which is hard to believe. If trump is re-elected I would expect demand to decrease considerably.

January 6th might be the day we actually figure out who won the election, they want to fight and drag out the results as long as possible.

OT: November 4th will be the day Trump flips the tyranny switch and goes full tin pot to try and retain power.

Expect more fiat gun control and regime violence after that day.

You're in a tiny, tiny minority.

Most subs are going to be 220gr, jacketed off the shelf.

The vast majority of shooting will be done with supers.

1/7 is most appropriate.

JAKL is for going SHORT and QUIET.

.

What do you like to put on a rifle?

This. At what point does a rifle become a garage sale?

I’d setup this rifle with a sling, WML, foregrip/hand stop (probably the latter for a shorter bbl length like the JAKL, and either a LPVO or holo+magnifier, suppressor.

I think you forgot to switch accounts...

Sounds like a good solid setup. I just tried a 300 blackout with all that on a 7” rail and it was barely adequate.

I will put a WML and a red dot on for sure.
On something this short I prefer a single point sling with either a QD or a claw for the ability for quick on and off.  
I leave the sling with it, but not attached.  Then I can throw the sling on me if I have time, and hook it uo if/when I need to go hands free.
I will put an AAC flash suppressor on so I can run SDN-6 on it, but I don't see actually leaving the can on, as I want it small.  
As for an angled fore grip / whatever, I will decide once I see how it handles and shoots without one first.  I took then off my really short ARs.