There is definitely a reason that this is being done in .260... and that 139 Scenars are being used for load development.

I have my suspicions, but I refuse to start the rumor mill.

"Nuttin' to see folks, please stay on the tramway."

Fancy

If you build it, they will come!

Interested!!

I agree. I think the 6.5 CM is the way to go. I think this will become a Blu-ray vs. HD DVD issue now that the Ruger Precision Rifle has become so popular. There has never been a wide selection of commercial .260 ammo and the 6.5 CM is getting more and more traction. Because both loads are so similar ballistically, switching over to 6.5 CM would be a better long-term move if you want to tap into a larger market of reloaders and non-reloaders alike.

Sometimes the best way to be an industry leading manufacture is to go against the current industry trends.

The Ruger Precision Rifle is meant for a guy who wants to get into Precision Rifle competitions without breaking the bank. Using 6.5CM has allowed a non-reloader the opportunity to get out there and try it out, and if it doesn't work.. then hey, he's got a neat rifle to hunt his yearly deer with.

Near as I can tell, ML doesn't cater to those folks who want 'baseline' equipment. As such, I think he's got a specific market in mind for this project, and he's just nice enough to allow us to see behind the curtain a little.

The 6.5 CM is a fad. It is just the whole Ford/Chevy thing. If one shooter claims that the CM is better than the 260 REM, it is because he wanted it to be and worked that much harder at his handloads and or shooting so in his mind he could claim it to be true.

I roll my own so it doesn't matter to me what Mark eventually comes out with. He has been testing the 260 REM extensively and hopefully that is what he sells so it can go against the grain of the fad and say "screw all ya'll 6.5 CM fan boyz!"

I was always hoping for a LaRue 6.5 Grendel

I was always hoping for a LaRue 6.5 Grendel

^^^
Would be awesome to have a Grendel in 16" tOBR. You know, while you're chambering 6.5 barrels anyway.

So should we order 260 Rem brass, or 6.5 Creedmoor?

Nice!

BigDozer66

Drats, I allowed this to go to archives ...

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1707410__ARCHIVED_THREAD____260_Rem_vs_6_5_Creedmore___vote_your_preference.html&page=1

I read that whole thing and it is as one would expect ~ 50/50. Midway and Europtic have Lapua 260 brass in stock. Lapua does not currently make 6.5 CM brass. The Hornady brass for the 6.5 is a lot less cost but I have no experience with that brass.

Hmmmm, which caliber should I order?

300 blackout must be coming soon.

Mark,

Any MV numbers out yet, just curious, 18" 260... whatever length.

Here's to hoping

Could it that there's a 300 blackout Black Friday sale coming?  

Wasn't there a post where Mark indicated they were not getting the accuracy they wanted out of the 300blk barrels ? Something to do with accuracy of a what is basically a pistol round.   I seem to recall that the Stealth uppers for the UHFO this year were to be 300blk

I heard that too.  But I can't seem to recall if they were reporting performance with standard or match ammo...

I've seen a couple hand loaders get sub moa accuracy with 300blk supers.  The capability it there.

I think the only reason the 6.5 CM has taken off is due to the mass quantities of inexpensive Hornady 140 AMAX ammo. People are getting close to hand load accuracy from a $1.15 per rd cartridge. So for the guy who doesn't reload and wants to get into PRS or any kind of LR comp it's a no brainier. The MARKETING  and equipment availability for your average Joe, has done wonders for sales. I personally had a bartlein 6.5CM 22" slapped in my reciever and am pleased with it. However, I will hopefully be replacing it with a barrel that has a Texas logo on it when it's shot out.

As far as bullets for reloading goes, the 140 gr Berger is a no go in a gasser due to mag restrictions, much like the 175 TMK in a 308 gas gun. Can it be done?... Probably, but with a massive jump and I assume accuracy would suffer. However, I have shot 130 bergers with great success and that new AR hybrid looks promising. Velocity was 2820 out of a 22" with the VLDs just for SA. This was before I got into reloading so they were done by copper creek. I will begin loading for it after Christmas as I have a new 6mm creedmoor and 300 RUM to start reloading for currently. The 6.5 is taking a back seat for now as it shoots fine with the plethora of 140 AMAX I have on hand.

^^^

Any chance you loaded up some 139 Scenars ?

I have not, when I return from yet another month in beautiful Leesville LA (uncle Sam's armpit)  I'll try and get my hands on some.

Where did you get the fact that the 140gr Berger is a no-go in a gasser due to mag restrictions? When I got my tOBR last year, I shot some of my bolt gun 168 SMK's that were loaded to 2.850". They fit just fine in my Larue magazines. I have loaded the 175 SMK's to 2.810" and 2.820" and both of those by the way will also fit in all my LR 20 Pmags, both the 10's and the 20's.

It doesn't matter if you load the 140 or the 130 Berger, if you load it to the same COAL, they will both work. They will both have approximately the same bullet jump if the COAL is the same. I say approximately because it depends on the ogive of the particular bullet you are loading (Scenar or VLD's vs the LRBT or standard BT or Hybrids). Bryan Litz claims, and it is in his book that the Tangent ogive bullets (LRBT and BT) are less susceptible to bullet jump, whereas the Secant ogive bullets (VLD, Scenar etc) are more finicky about bullet jump. That is why Berger came out with what he calls the best of both worlds and the Hybrids are similar to the Tangent ogive bullets with regards to jump. Of course he is talking bolt guns and we are limited to what lead/jump Mark gives us on his barrels. My 7.62 tOBR has 0.143" jump (ogive to lands) with the 175 SMK's loaded at 2.810" Maybe Mark will cut that down to less than half of that since we are limited to magazine length of 2.850" (Larue Magazine)

My Nosler book loading data has the COAL for the 140 and 130 (Nosler bullets) at 2.800" for the 260 REM. My Sierra manual has the SMK 142 at 2.765" (similar COAL to 6.5 Creedmoor) and there is nothing stopping me from loading it out to 2.810"

Lets talk lengths of bullets now. I have ordered the Berger Loading Manual so I don't have lengths on the new  Berger 130 Hybrid Tactical or the new Berger 140 Match Hybrid. I hope Bryan Litz will test both for true G7 BC and Cd.

Bullet Lengths from Bryan Litz's Applied Ballistics book:
Berger 130 VLD 1.400"
Berger 140 VLD 1.421"
Berger 140 short BT 1.377"
Berger 140 LRBT 1.412
Berger 140 BT 1.376"
Sierra 142 MK 1.375
Hornady 140 AMAX 1.375"
Lapua 139 Scenar 1.364"

The 140 VLD is only 0.021" longer than the 130 and the LRBT is only 0.012" longer than the 130.

The shorter bullets, the Scenar, AMAX, and Berger BT's are going to have a lower G7 BC and at longer ranges a resulting higher Cd.

I was planning on trying the 140 LRBT's and the 140 hybrids for the 260 REM when Mark releases them. If you plan on just shooting shorter ranges, then the 130 gr and sub weights will be fine. The higher G7 BC and lower long range Cd of the 140's is what I want.

What's your definition of 'shooting shorter ranges' ?  I've gotten 2870 fps from a 120 AMAX without even breaking a sweat, which was a repeatable hit on an 18" circle at 1k yards requiring less than 9mils of elevation correction. A key to success is the smaller firing pin and hole. The pressures can add up quick in the 6.5-based cartridges.

As I stated earlier, it could "probably" be done with, what I would call excessive, jump. The farthest I have jumped a round is .085 and the only reason I did that was to squeeze a bunch of TMKs past my 2.865 feed ramps on my surgeon.

When I got my hands on some 140 hybrids the average OAL was 1.429 but that doesn't matter. It's the tip to Ogive that matters and the tip to Ogive was .055 longer than the 140 AMAXs. If you don't mind jumping your rds a tenth or more of an inch follow your heart, I'm sure accuracy can be had that way. My 6.5 was cut to my specs so I could seat 130's just at the lands in a PMAG if I desired. I like to start my load data/ladder test jammed .010 and go from there. I can't do that with 140's in a gas gun. So for ME 140's are a no go in an AR. I hope they work for you.

So the Berger 140's are a NO-GO in your gasser because of your custom reamed chamber. Your original statement led me to believe that the 140's could not be used in any gasser.

Being that we are limited to what will essentially be off-the-shelf produced barrels to accommodate the masses as far as chamber dimensions, we will have excessive jump/lead compared to what we are able to do in our bolt guns. My 175 SMK's are 0.143"  ogive to lands and it still shoots great. Yes I would like it a lot less, and maybe Mark could let us order a Custom reamed chamber otherwise we are limited + - to magazine length.

By using .311 as the G7 for the Berger 140 Hybrid, AB has been accurate to under .1mil from 25-1200yards.... for me it has, anyways.

Any news on this 260 front

Howd this get off the first page already

If you release a .260 Remington OBR, I'd finally order a Larue rifle.

Some people sing the praises of the 6.5CM, but I'll go .260 Rem over it any day.  I have a 6.5 Grendel already so I'm sold on the 6.5mm bullets.  As I'll be reloading for it, I'd much rather be able to just resize .308 brass, which I already have gobs of and shoot regularly.  6.5CM cannot be easily converted from 308 brass.

.260 Rem OBR for me please!

I would really love a Tobr in 260 but I just scratched the 260 itch with a custom 700.

But, the wife is on notice that when the Siete is released the safe is going to grow by 1...

Just saying...

Patiently waiting...   I know Mark and the team have a full plate, but a tOBR barrel in 260 Rem is on the top of my Christmas list...  I've been good

the 260 barrel is also on my christmas list,but the way things are looking it will likely be next christmas.......dam its going to be hard to be good for another whole year.

pete

Id really like to see this happen soon...

Any updates on the 260 barrels?

hello

Still wtb! Have that exact NF 5.5-22x50 and tons of reloading components just sitting here waiting for a 260.

I wonder if there is gonna be a SHOT unveiling of 260 greatness

Absolutely....

 

It was there a year ago.

They have had a lot of time to develop it  

 
Keep wondering what the issue is.  Almost like they just gave up on 260 and 300 BLK.  Sad thing is the 260 groups looked real good.  I wonder what the hold up is.

don't know what the holdup is but you would think mark might have a bunch of field grade barrels he could send out to some beta testers......what you say mark,dont you need some independent beta testers willing to work on load development,i'm ready if you are.

pete

Patience. SHOT will be here soon.

I have a little free time I would be willing to sacrifice for the greater good.  It might seem like an imposition on my time Mark, but really, I would be OK with it.

What? Are they going to re-reveal the .260? It was out last year. Or are they going to reveal another caliber?

Two rifles headed to Shotshow just smoked their targets ...
One shot 0.051" target, the other shot a .253".

Pics or it didn't happen

What he said!

Oh REALLLLLLY.... The 260s are sounding better and better!