OK, my Christmas presents have mostly arrived, the bulk of those presents being a complete overhaul of my BOB setup. I'm doing a review (preview, since I haven't used this setup yet?) of the packs and asking for any advice or things I forgot. Note that this is going to sit in the vehicle, and that I have a fairly extensive vehicle kit, so many items that would normally be in a BOB are absent the bag, but present in the vehicle. Note also the prodigious amounts of multicam - what can I say, I'm a multicam whore. I like the way it looks and it's a tried and tested camo pattern, so sue me.  I also intend to use this pack on overnighters occasionally, maybe some hikes. There's obviously quite a bit of overlap between a pack set up for such use and a BOB.

This review is going to be very pic heavy, so I'm breaking it into separate posts... Please wait until I get them all out to comment.

The main pack is an Eberlestock Halftrack in MC, with a Kifaru G2 E&E strapped onto the exterior with Kifaru's dock 'n lock system. The Kifaru is on there securely and comes off quickly, with its own pack-away shoulder straps for use as a small daypack. On the belt I've got 2 TT Canteen Utility Pouches and 2 Accessory Pouch 1H pouches. Total capacity is roughly 4100 cu. in., plus a little extra with the pockets. The Halftrack itself is listed as 3080 cubes. Some pics:





The Kifaru detaches in seconds:



The main pack sans Kifaru:



The suspension system on the Halftrack is the most comfortable I've ever experienced. I have had other Kifarus in the past and prefer this system; loading it up I can walk around with it on my back for hours and hardly notice it's there. It is that good. It is as comfortable as it looks.

Total weight is 38 lbs without water, which I would normally not want to carry around for very long, but with this pack it is no problem. You have to feel it to believe it.



You can see the suspension system from the side here and note the thickness of the padding. Also note that this pack is pretty low profile, which I think is a definite bonus as it helps you keep your center of balance pretty well.



Quick self-pic (apologies for crappy quality) of it worn to get an idea of scale. I'm about 5'7-5'8" and about 170 lbs for reference. It's not a huge pack, not tiny either. I have no problem getting through doorways.



Continues in next post...

ETA: Halftrack dimensions as inexpertly measured by me are as follows: Main compartment is about 21" L x 10" W x 8" D. Side pockets are roughly 20" L x 6" W x 3" D. Top compartment is about 8" W x 7" D x 4" H.

On to the Kifaru and its contents. It's about 1000 cubes. This can be used as a daypack and carries a 3L hydration bladder. It's not specifically designed for use as a hydration pack, and it won't fit a full 3L bladder (not quite tall enough), but it's pretty close and I can get the bladder mostly full. I am leaving this pack about half empty to accomodate the bladder when full.

Exterior:



The PALS on the Kifaru is a CT color, while the Eberlestock PALS is a lighter tan. No biggie...

Interior:



Contents:

Source 3L Bladder
Steiner Binos
Toiletries Kit
Streamlight Microstream light
Wipes
Personally made BDU Survival Kit

The BDU Survival Kit contents:



This fits perfectly into a BDU cargo pocket or 5.11 cargo pocket and carries the basics. I've got an archived review of it somewhere, but if anyone wants to know more about contents just ask.

Now, back to the main pack...

Starting to get inside of the Eberlestock...

The contents of the belt pouches:



Of note here:

The Survival Solutions OPSEC is a combo poncho/tarp that is very versatile and covers the wearer and pack fully. Measures 59" x 104" for use as a tarp. Has grommets all over for tie-down.

Top Pocket:



This pocket is quite roomy. Contents:



Between the side pockets and main compartment are some slot pockets with attachment points. You could put a machete in there if you wanted (I know, I put a Gerber Gator, Jr. in there), but I've put a Fiskars folding saw in there:



I LOVE the side pockets. They are great for fitting the longer items that I had problems fitting in older bags. They are also great for hydration bladders. Pocket 1:



Pocket 1 Contents:



Sleeping pad, tent/tarp poles, Ka-Bar knife w/ scabbard, some small hydration items (survival straw, purification tabs, Propel packets), spare socks

Pocket 2 Contents:



Snugpak Stratosphere Bivy, shit tickets, extra socks and t-shirt.

On to the main compartment...

The main compartment is not huge, but you can fit a surprising amount of stuff in there if you try. You can separate it into 2 compartments if you want, as I have.

Open:



The front flap is covered in PALS, I've got some bungies and a Gerber folder woven in there:



Botom compartment contents:



Contents:

Snugpak Jungle Bag
Katadyn Hiker Pro water filter
McNett Microfiber Towel
Rite in Rain Notepad
inflatable travel pillow
trash bags
sewing kit
Powerfilm AA/USB Solar Charger
8 AA Eneloops in battery pack (thinking of switching to 4 AA / 4 AAA since some of my gadgets use AAAs)

Not shown is a Sea to Summit Thermolite Liner that's en route, I left a bit of space in there to fit it.

Empty compartment:



Top Compartment has a mesh flap to help keep contents in place:



Top compartment munchies:



About 5500 calories or so, good for 2-3 days.

Other top compartment items:



Empty:



And just because it was another Christmas present a new rig: ATS Low Profile Chest Rig... Probably the topic of a separate post. It wears just fine under the pack, which is one reason I got it.



OK, it's not completely finished, but I think I'm about 95%. I'm sure I've missed something. Remember, many more items in the vehicle, but feel free to point out anything that's missing.

Fire away.

Tag for home viewing.

Have you taken a load for any distance with this configuration?

My concern is that keeping a full water bladder in your loaded "piggyback" bag would move your center of gravity too far from your core (which i find really uncomfortable... I want my heaviest stuff as close to my backbone as I can manage).  This is my main gripe with any kind of bag that "docks" on the back of your main bag–– I screwed around with a similar configuration and was never comfortable with my bags being that deep (i.e. distance from my backbone to the outermost part of the bag).  Different folks have different preferences, but I'd almost rather go taller than deeper (with the most weight at the hips and close to the backbone).  Water, in particular, I really don't want far from my core (it's heavy).

I'm not criticizing your setup, just asking the question.

Condoms, where are you're condoms in that E&E bag?  not not for after-shtf sex, but for emergency water carriers...

Huh, use the non-lubed / non-spermicide versions.....

A typical condom will hold a full litter of water, inculde a women's style hair net as a carrying device.
just a thought...

As stated in the first post I just got it... Which also explains why it's so clean. I've used many of the contents, some for years, but the bags are both brand spankin' new.



That's a valid concern, and one I'll pay attention to as I am testing it out. If I had one gripe against the Halftrack it is that it doesn't have an against-the-back compartment or accomodation for a bladder, though of course you could simply throw one in the main compartment and run the tube out from there (there are holes that can be used as tube routing ports or for radio antennae from the main compartment). Mitigating this is the fact that the Halftrack is a pretty slim pack, and the water is actually not too far off from the center of gravity. Also the Kifaru is on there very securely, there is no play or flop when moving.  I am not anticipating any problems here, but as I said it's something I'll keep an eye on.

I'd use the side pockets for bladders, but they are full with my bivy and sleeping pad.



I'd say they're not really needed with the 1L Aqua Pouch... Hell, I don't even have any in the vehicle, of course, I keep a full 7 Gal Aquatainer in the truck at all times.

Of course they're small, guess it couldn't hurt to throw a couple in there.

I own everything (pretty much) you have listed and I had a near identical gear load out. So I can actually say, been there done that with your set up and I'll point out some problems I had, ymmv and they are just IMHO.

while the pack is great, it is by NO MEANS designed as a hiking pack. it is a radio ruck designed to carry some basis gear. it has not hydration pouch so you either need to carry two bladders (in the in between spots between the ruck body and the side pouches,) or rig the bladder in a silnylon stuff sack and put it behind the mesh panel. luckily the antenna ports are great for running a hose through.

The Jet boil is an awesome piece of kit, but if you want speed and convenience there are faster rigs, if you want lower weight and more fuel capacity, there are MUCH better rigs. I have a jet boil and about 3 other canister stoves, i have played with most major models out there and i am not an exclusive alcohol stove user. you can always monitor your fuel levels, you never have to worry about if it is too hot sitting in your truck, and a decent ALC stove with pot will weigh a third or less what the JB does. again I love my JB, but it has been relegated to making coffee at the range.

You have a TREMENDECE amount of redundancies. Some things you have like 4 and 5 of. I get the whole 2 are 1 and 1 is none look. but there is overkill here. Lighting is a good example, ditch the G2 and TIKKA. I've got multiples of both of those and while they are good, they are WAY heavy for a pack. leave them in the truck, if you need a headlamp carry a petzel E-lite. best damn piece of gear you can put in the ruck. yes it is a CR2032 battery instead of aa/AAA, but you can carry 6 batteries for the weight of 2 AA's. which is a lot of run time. replace the G2 with something like a maratac or other aa/aaa single cell light.

I didn't see a tent, but i did see tent poles... if you are going to use the tarp/poncho as a hooch or a tarp shelter, you have trees. ditch the pols. extra weight you don't need.

Ditch the cotton shirt, it's good for nothing.

I could spend an hour talking about food, but in short, you need more of it and from personal experience, you might want to bring either more TP or less MH. just saying.

Again I'm not grilling you hear, I'm just speaking from experience. lots of sore back and shoulders, blistered feet and ankles, and bad times led me to the gear i had. and i have never seen someone who could double for me on this forum but you might be him. from size to gear choice. don't learn the hard way like i did. If you want I'll continue i just don't want you to think I'm picking on you.

I started with a 65lb wet weight for 5 days on the trail. I can now do everything i could then for the same time frame and eat and sleep better for roughly 35lbs. if nothing else thats a lot more ammo i could hump.

ETA: All of my gear is FDE/Coyote though. i've got some multicam kit, but it is just too expensive and doesn't blend as well as homebrew kryloned gear does.

I got the Halftrack from US Cav for about $250 (non-multicam versions are $200). It was delivered to my doorstep in like 3-4 days. If you look around you can find them for significantly less, I just wanted the MC version, which is harder to find.

I got the Kifaru from ... Kifaru, for about $115 shipped.

All of the other stuff has been accumulated over the years.

It's certainly not a traditional hiking pack, of course, though having used military packs for several years I feel much better about striking off in the woods with this one than any of the ones I'm used to. Did I mention that I love the suspension? As for the hydration... yes, that's probably the biggest flaw I can find in the pack. It's something I'll have to watch and figure out.



It gets water boiling in just a couple of minutes, and I can eat and drink out of it, as well as carry the stove and can of fuel inside iof it, which saves critical space. One can of fuel is enough for 2-3 days, which is all I'm geared for with this pack anyway food-wise. I'll carry extras in the vehicle. If the Jetboil has a weakness, it's the fuel.

Of course, I can always just start a fire and use the canteen cup.



This has occurred to me... I'll probably go through everything and remove a few things. Redundancy for some things I regard as mandatory though - lighting (but yeah, I could probably ditch some) and fire making particularly. But yeah, I can probably shed some weight here.



The headlamp, no, I'm keeping that one. I am thinking I'll ditch the G2 for something that uses AAs, though. I was considering THIS, but am open to alternatives.



They actually don't weigh shit - lightweight aluminum - and give me options with the tarp/poncho besides trees. That said, something to think about.



Probably a good suggestion, as I've got a full change of clothes in the vehicle anyway. I'm just used to carrying an extra shirt from the military days.



The MH takes up alot of space, and I considered just going with Mainstay, Datrex, etc to save space and drastically increase calories, but I want something decent to eat, too... I've gone for days on the Mainstays and do not want to do it again. I'd go with MRE components but this pack will be in a vehicle and will be subject to wild variations in temps including hot and humid Texas summers. The MH I can rotate out fairly periodically... I'd like something more compact than the MH but that is more palatable than the Mainstay-type rations. I'm open to more suggestions on the food, as I'm not 100% satisfied with what I've got here, either. It just needs to be something that can take being left in a vehicle.

As for the critique, keep going. I am open to all suggestions, whether I take them or not. Don't worry about hurt feelings, I can take it.

The pack sure isn't an isn't an Alice, and it will take far more of a beating than you can throw at it. I can put my hiking gear in it w/ 5 days of supplies, ammo, my mk12, comm gear, and other gear ""needed items" and it feels great. Trust me, i have no gripes other than the bladder thing with the pack. but there are ways around it like i posted earlier.

Moutain house isn't bad, just switch to the vaccum pack bags to save space., then suppliment with some dried meats and bars like cliff or odwala.

What I (and the three guys I hike with on a regular basis) switched to is a small side burner alcohol stove. the stove, pot, wind screen, 5-7 days of fuel (15- 2 cup boils), folding spork, and little primer pan weighs 3 oz less than the jetboil pot and stove, not counting th coozie, lid, bottom cup or fuel can.

back to lights. look at this one. Fenix makes a good light. i've had a few of them (not that exact one though). but i like my aratacs better. they have a new model out that isn't on their website that i have. it is a dual output light with tail switch that is a thrid of the G2's weight and brighter. It is easily my new favorite light.

Try to pile up everything you have in all of those misc. zip top bags and then sort them out as to what they are.you'll probably (as i did) find you hve three and four of somethings. just something to do. with all of the pockets the halftrack's have inside, there is no reason you should really need to have stuff thrown around in ziptop bags. the top compartment actually make a great place to hold a nice fleece like a polartec jacket (or in my case a Tad Ranger hoodie.)

BTW: what color is your packs rainfly? is it multicam or Coyote?

Looks good.......but do you really need three bottles of bug repellent?  I would think that one bottle would be fine, and make room for something else instead.

Vacuum pack MH bags? Where can I find those? I picked these up at Wallyworld, do they make some sort of different version I can get somewhere else? I thought these bags seemed a bit big/bulky...

Dried meats - jerky? Will that last sitting in a vehicle during a hot, humid summer? Will the Clif bars last under those conditions? I am planning on rotating this stuff yearly, I suppose I could halve that. I need foods that will last under those conditions.



How fast does it bring water to a boil? One of the things I love about the Jetboil is how it can cut cooking times drastically (and get me hot coffee really fast) by boiling water ultra-fast. Also, how compact is that setup, and how do you carry the fuel?

That light you posted looks like a really good one to try, not too expensive either. I'll give it a shot. The G2... I've got a bunch of them layiong around from the military days and really just threw one in there. I'd rather have commonality on AA and AAA batteries for everything. I will happily replace the G2.



I have everything in ziploc bags for protection from water immersion. Also helps with organization (I dislike having lots of little things cluttered in big spaces) and noise reduction as well, and the ziplocs themselves can be useful in other ways. Good idea to pull it all out and check for redundancy, I will do that.



I've got separate clothes and CW gear bag in the vehicle. It's taken care of...



It's Coyote.

I tried putting one larger can of it in there and the three smaller containers actually take up less space. I wanted lots of it because this place in spring/summer/most of fall is a truly miserable place to be without amenities. Apply bug spray liberally... Those three small containers will only last a few days here.

Of course, if I find something of similar size that is more iomportant than the bug spray, I am open to changing things.

check rei or theepicenter for the mountain house. it's called pro-paks. much easier to carry.

It looks like a nice set up and i look forward to hearing how it does when you take it out. What do you have for medical supplies? It looked like you had a very small first aid kit in one of the pics but it didnt look like it could handle much or an injury or do you keep your med supplies on the chest rig?

BOK in the chest rig, yes. Has Israeli bandage, QC Combat Gauze, CAT Tourniquet, other stuff. The stuff in the pack is minor meds and owie stuff.

When I saw the thread title, I thought to myself, "How long will it be before KrazyL shows up and starts humping Eberlestock's proverbial leg?"

I see that I was too late... My little boy, all growed up.

It's already been mentioned, but using the dock-n-lock system the way you have it is gonna be murder on your back. Already from the picture you've posted, the pack doesn't fit you right and is dragging deep into your shoulders. I ahte to saw it, but ditch the E&E and make it all work in one pack. Strapping a pack on a pack just means you need MORE pack or LESS gear, NOT a 2nd pack to take overflow.

Your personal hygeine kit looks overblown x1000. Ditch the crest for some baking soda in a waterproof match container.
Then take out the rest of that crap and dump it back in your medicine chest at home. You need a travel sized floss, a travel toothbrush, and that's it. Get rid of the body spray I see hiding in there. Give up on smelling like a bed of roses while you're bugging out, running from the zombies. Embrace the hiker funk.

Also, loose the binos in favor of a monacle if you must have something to do your bird-watching.

The survival kit looks like it's got a bunch of crap in it you don't actually need. Without an expanded list though, it's hard to say.

Lose the nalgene bottle and get a soft nalgene instead... the kind that's a bag, not a bottle. You'll instantly lose like 8oz. Also, lose the multi-tool.

Also, lose both flashlights and get an e-lite instead. Also get rid of the damn cotton... er, everything. If it's made of cotton and not a handcerchief, it has no place in your bag.

Why are you carrying enough duct tape to build a mansion? It'll melt in the car anyway. Lose it.

While we're losing things, get rid of the damn bug juice. Treat your clothes with permathrin and learn to find the zen of not scratching where it itches.

The lightsticks are a one-time use thing. Lose 'em, for they will weigh you down.

You don't need all that paracord. Or the kleenex. Or anything with the name "Coleman" on it.

What you DO need is an entire damn roll of toilet paper re-rolled around the palm of your hand and shoved into a ziploc bag. Heaven help you. The coleman camp paper is like using 100grit sandpaper on your arse. Bleeding hemmrhoids ahoy!

You don't need a machete. Or a folding saw. In fact, you shouldn't need fire at all. Carry enough insulation to keep yourself warm.

Lose the rambo knife. Carry a small folder instead.

You need at least 2 more pairs of socks.

What is that stuff in the pic with the rambo knife in the plastic bag? I don't like the look of it. Get rid of it.

Snugpak is evil. Lose it and buy a proper down sleeping bag.

You don't need bungy cords.

You don't need the microfiber towel either. Or the inflatable travel pillow (shove stuff saks inside stuff saks until you have a pillow)

You don't need the sewing kit, or the solar charger.

Get rid of the liner and carry enough sleeping bag to do the job. If you need a liner, it means you don't have enough bag.

I personal prefer an alcohol stove for a variety of reasons. I think the jetboil is an over-marketed, overly-heavy, pointless waste of time that's hard to refuel and hard as hell to keep on eye on your actual fuel level.

Get an alcohol stove and do away with the canister of stupid forever.

Your spork is so awesome it hurts. Now go to your silverware drawer and get a really long spoon and use that instead... or use the MRE spoon. unless you like licking your fingers, which is what you're going to be doing using that short little spork contraption.

Also, in my AO, you have enough calories for MAYBE 2 full days of movement through rough terraine without losing your mind and eating your companions.

Also - any food you store in Tx heat will basically go bad. The MREs will go sour, the nuts will go rancid, and the mainstay bars will not be very enjoyable after baking off in your truck at 140* for a few weeks.

You've got wet ones and clean wipes. You only really need the clean wipes - and only really for your ass after you take a crap.

I like the size of your first aid kit.

You don't need the camp trowel, you don't need the sunglasses, or teh radio, or the extra paracord.

What I'd suggest that you do need is extra zip-loc bags. You literally cannot have enough zip-loc bags in a pack. I've studied this with a team of scientists, and we concluded that it is humanly impossible to have enough zip-loc bags in a pack.

You also need a touque to keep your head warm. Also heavy socks to keep your feet warm at night if it's going to be cold.

Also, you need more sara lee oatmeal creme pies. Trust me on that as well.

Two things here... 1) the pic is a bit misleading - I had to twist my body to an unnatural angle to snap the pic - the pack actually rides fairly flush and does not actually eat into the shoulders, and 2) I'm gonna try out the E&E like that before I ditch it. I had another Kifaru that I used in this manner (with another E&E) several years ago, and while I didn't try carrying water in it it was loaded full and didn't cause any issues.



I might trim it down a bit (there's a stick of deodorant I can probably lose, though there is no body spray in there), but not much. Personal choice.



No. The Steiners stay. Yes I could save a little room by going to a monocle, but the Steiners are going to present a much better, clearer picture. I've been using them for years, and they have served me well.



It actually goes in a cargo pocket as part of 1st line, it's just carried in the E&E for convenience - to keep everything together. It is my real E&E kit.



That's one I'll consider. Two questions: 1) how durable are they, and 2) how easy are they to drink one-handed while moving under weight?



This I will do, as I carry a full-sized one on my person anyway.



Yes, I can ditch this too. I have some in the vehicle anyway.



Another no, I've been out without it here before. I'm just not gonna find that zen, I need to be free from the creepy crawlies before I find any peace. Although treating the clothes kept in the vehicle is probably a good idea.



I'll drop this too. Not really why I threw them in there...



I can probably halve it and get by.



Eh, I've been using these little rolls for years, and they've always worked fine. Each little roll will do me for about 2 days, so I'm good for roughly a week with these. I'll try your idea and compare them side by side, though.



I don't need a machete, nor do I NEED a folding saw, but it's a nice item to have for breaking down wood for fire or shelter. It takes up pretty much no space where it is and isn't that heavy, so it'll stay. I do want to be able to build fires, too.



Another one I'll probably do. I never use the thing anyway... And I carry a folder on me. Another one where I'm not quite sure why I threw it in there.



Another easy one I can do.



Purification tablets, survival straw, Propel packets. I'll keep the Propel packets, ditch the rest (it's redundant).



No. I've been using this bag for years, it's perfect for my AO, and it is about the most compact bag out there. It stays.



Probably true if I've got enough 550, but they take up no space and add virtually no weight, and they do have some uses.



Both are convenience items, of course. I have been using the microfiber towel for years and find it very useful, and it doesn't take much space or weigh much so it stays. The travel pillow I can probably work around. Hell, I could turn the E&E into one pretty quick...



The sewing kit will go away (I can't sew worth a damn anyway), but the solar charger stays. It works damn well and can keep the lights running if nothing else.



No, I use a layering approach. No bag out there fits every situation, and with Texas weather we can see 85 degrees one day and 45 the next. A layered approach is more flexible. I've done it like that for years, it works. This system will give me 3 layers at minimum bulk and weight.



I'll ask what I asked KrazyL: how fast will it bring water to a boil, how compact is the system, and how do you carry fuel?



Heh, but I love that thing. It makes eating fun. Not like it's weighing me down much.



Like I said I'm open to suggestions on the food. The Mainstays BTW will stay good for years, even in the TX heat. Ask me how I know this (I've eaten them...). I'm leaning towards just making my own food packs here (make a mix of pasta/fd meat, seal it up in mylar w/ O2 absorbers, something like that). Still open to suggestions on the food.



I can probably ditch all of these as substitutes are in the vehicle, but I'm keeping the radio. I want to have some means of finding out what's going on.



In the vehicle already.

All good suggestions, many of them I am going to implement. Some I won't (personal preferences mostly). I think you guys are going to save me some space and weight, which is of course why I posted this. Thanks.

To answer your question about the alcohol stove -

The whole thing will fit in your cup if you get the right one. It'll also weigh much less than the jetboil. I carry fuel in the small little nalgene bottles inside a ziploc. I like this approach much better because -

1) With a canister, you're always guessing as to how much fuel you really have left. This basically means that you always have to carry spare fuel.
2) With a canister, you're lugging around a metal canister that may be about empty... in other words, that metal fuel container becomes dead weight in a hurry.
3) Alcohol stove runs on denatured alcohol or rubbing alcohol. I can walk into anytown, USA and refill for pennies at the nearest hardware store, wal-mart, grocery store, and some 7/11s.

A well-made stove will boil 20oz of water in about 3-5 minutes, depending on how much of a rolling boil is desired. It isn't as fast as the jetboil, but I feel that the weight savings is well worth spending a few extra minutes at mealtime boiling water. I like to set up the water boiling and then go do something else while the stove works its magic.

That sounds like something I could try out... I was thinking it'd be somerthing that took 15-20 minutes to boil water.

Any links to something you'd recommend?

Have you thought about  an MSR stove? it is a little bigger then some of the alcohol stoves  but it has the advantage of being able to use liquid that will burn as fuel and they are very durable i know from expierince that they will last 2 tours in Afghanistan with heavy use and still going strong

I have an end2end trail supply through hiker stove - https://www.end2endtrailsupply.com/Thru_Hiker_Stove.html

The only thing I'll say about it is that if you step on it or something, it will get damaged. Keep it inside your cooking pot while in the pack and it's fine, though. I also have their windscreen, which is a good thing to have.

The biggest thing is that the stove is about a half oz. I tend to boil a lot of water while hiking (What can I say... I like hot food), so I'll go through something like 3oz fuel per day between breakfast and dinner. I carry several small bottles of denatured so as to distribute the fuel to reduce the chance of losing it all if one bottle breaks (Hasn't ever happened, but I am one paranoid dude about having hot food)

There are NO SaraLee "Oatmeal Creme Pies"!!!!
I just went to Saralee.com. Other pies yes, but NO oatmeal creme.
Also checked google. Nothing!
So that whole list of suggestions from SabreKitty is suspect untill he clears that up.

Sorry guys, I must have been having an early senior moment.

By Sara Lee, I mean Lil' Debbie.

I think I'm going to try one of the alcohol stoves.

Next days off I'm going to do some reorganizing and try and get the pack out for a few hours and get some tick time.

Thanks for all of the ideas so far.

Thank you for double checking the source of this important B.O.B. ingredient.
(Wife just looked overy my shoulder and confirmed that they are good.)
And in all seriousness thank you and everyone for the helpfull thread and forum.
Nick

While the discussion of lil' debbie oatmeal creme pies is entertaining, I should toss in that I'm not kidding - pack those suckers. Oz for oz, you won't find many foods that pack the same wallop in terms of sugar, carbs, fat, and calories. They're virtually indestructible, and tasty even when smashed at the bottom of a pack. They also don't really freeze, so they're PERFECT for weather so cold your snickers bar becomes so solid it could be used as a deadly weapon. They also have a shelf life that, if memory serves, is a few minutes shy of eternity. (They also don't melt, which is a good added bonus)

Now some might say that I use hiking as an excuse to eat food that would otherwise send me into an early death - and they might be right. But verily I say unto you, give me enough oatmeal creme pies and I can outwalk even the hungriest of zombie hordes.

Sabercat nailed 99% of what I thought about your rig. That is alot of pack space when you combine the bags. Maybe scale down to the essentials and use one for a BOB and one for a GHB?

To echo sabercat on the AL stoves, they aren't JetBoil fast, but they are still under 10 minutes. I just clocked my Gram Weenie pro: 2 cups of 40*water in 24" outside air was brought to a rolling boil in 7 minutes 15 seconds. using Yellow HEET.

I actually just ordered another gram weenie pro (for a friend) and a classic gram weenie (for me) from end2end trail supply yesterday. the stove, wind screen, fuel bottle, primer pan, and 24oz Imusa mug only cost 18.50 plus shipping.... that hard to beat for a full stove set up.

@sabercat - those Oatmeal cream pies will be the death of you, me, and Zach sooner or later. But I suppose we could out do any zombie hoard. lightweight gear = more ammo

Where did you order the gram weenie pro?  All retail web links didn't stock.

I've got a separate GHB that is also my work bag, so not really necessary. Like I've said I've run Kifarus like this before (w/ E&E strapped on back) and no issues there, I'll try it before I ditch it. If I can I'll move things around and bring the bladder into the main pack compartment instead of the E&E, too.

If I replace the Jetboil with an alcohol stove setup that'll probably change the internal geography quite a bit. Here I was thinking I was almost done...

I'm going to get an alcohol stove setup and play around with it and see where it takes me. I can live with the boil times I've seen quoted after a bit of research.

end2endtrailsupply.com

he is the one who makes them. great guy, i've bought 6 stoves so far from him.

Thanks!

i won't reiterate what some have already pointed out at this time. I will add it is strange you have zip-loc bags fro everything except your socks & shirt.

In the Army days we just threw them in there... The shirt is going away, and I suppose the socks could use a ziploc, too.

im going to throw some critiques in here, ill try to make them simple and not be a ass......

CONS.........
1. i love the pack, its a good size, although, i am not a fan of the way it zippers open. i dont trust zippers that carry loads...... its a personal decision though, and it is a nice pack .
2. ditch the 3 little bottles of bug juice, buy 1 slightly larger bottle, bullfrog makes a sunblock/bug repellent combo, that kills two birds with one rock.
3. either add a click on and off switch to the surefire, or get rid of it, the pressure switch lets the light come on too easily and kills the battery. a led type also lasts many, many hours longer, if space and weight is a real concern, replace it with a mini surefire led....
4. lose the chem lights. you have enough light sources, waste of space.
5. tent stakes need to go... unless the tent has to have them. ...................
6. i would also lose the stove... replace it with a us army  1 qt canteen, with canteen cup, and stove. you lose the stove, but gain a quart of water, a gooking pot, and a stove that uses heat tabs, or sticks and twigs., so it never runs out of fuel. i have cooked many, many meals with them in the army.. full set, 30 bucks.  im pretty sure you can buy the cover in multicam as well....
7. not enough water... plus your in texas. its hot. buy a camelbak, they have multicam 3 liter, that attach to the outside of the pack, plus they have a inline filter, that filters 300 liters.
8. this might not be a con,,,, its concerning your tent. texas is USUALLY a pretty warm place, you could possibly replace the tent, with a small poncho sized tarp. the infantry calls a poncho tent a " hooch", i have slept under them in all kinds of weather, and they work pretty well. try to get the biggest possible, it should still weigh 1/3 what the tent weighs, if there are small trees/bushes you dont need poles either.
9. little shovel ?????.........seems a waste of space, and weight..........................shovels are good though, replace it with a glock e tool, i think they have a saw in the handle as well, so you could drop the saw you are already using to help offset the weight. plus the glock shovel should actually be able to dig a hole.
10.ditch the coleman toilet paper. vac seal a regular roll, take out the inner tube to make it smaller.

Glock Entrenching Tool
The GLOCK Entrenching Tool is one of the top selling Glock tools on that market, making it ideal for troops with it's light weight design and durability. The Glock shovel / saw is made of polymer plastic as well as hardened steel, making it light and ready for any type of environment.








since you seem to like expensive toys, heres what id buy.....


Specifications  

it cost $130.00 bucks. surefire used to have a 25% discount for military. i called them once, and ordered some stuff, and told them i was in the national guard, they gave me the discount on the spot.
second recomendation would be the multi light style, red/green/white etc, they are pretty neat. i just hate the cheapy g2, i have had them die too many times. i only use them for the house.  


Max Output 45 .0 lumens
Low Output / Runtime 3 .0 lumens / 8.5 hours
Length 4 .00 inches
Bezel Diameter 1 .00 inches
Weight w/Batteries 2 .8 ounces
Batteries 1
  123A

   


Description
E1L-HA-WH
The E1L is an ultra compact, dual-output, extended-runtime flashlight featuring a virtually indestructible power-regulated LED emitter and a precision Total Internal Reflection (TIR) lens. The E1L's pushbutton tailcap switch lets you activate the flashlight and select an output level: press or click for a 3-lumen ultra long-runtime low beam that's perfect for reading a map or navigating around a campsite; release or click off and press or click again for a 45-lumen high beam—over twice the light of a big two-D-cell flashlight. The E1L's small size makes it light enough to clip to the brim of cap for hands-free operation.



PROS....
1. keep the headlamp. led headlamps are awesome, weigh nothing, and run forever .. win.
2. keep the saw, you can cut wood very quietly, and sometimes you gotta cut wood.
3. big knife.    its a personal thing. you could go smaller, but you would not save a lot of weight... plus, you might need it in a fight.
4. keep the bungie cords, they weigh very little, and are EXTRREMLY useful when using a poncho as a tarp, or a tarp as a tent. they automatically adjust where 550 alone wont.
5. the multi tool is a huge win. they are invaluable, basically a small tool box. keep it.
6. everything else seems allright to me. i think you did a very good job, and even if you didnt change anything you have a good setup....the best way to be sure though, is to haul it on a 3-5 mile hike, camp out with it for three days, and see what you actually use and dont use.  i always made the mistake in the military of hauling a lot of stuff, gadgets, lots of extra clothes, and never used any of it. yeah you get stinky wearing the same clothes for a week or two in the summer, but you save a ton of weight and space. ...remember the basics. food/water/shelter/fire. if you have those, thats all you need.

i  hope that this is helpful to you. i am also using this to get some ideas of my own

I've played the top-loader game, too (notice I did a little time with the big green tick, too ), and vastly prefer panel loaders now for ease of access and organizational qualities. I truly hate having to dump half of your shit and dig to the bottom of the ruck to find what you're looking for. With a panel loader I can organize things in a way that I know exactly where everything is - I can open the panel and reach in there in total darkness and find exactly what I'm looking for with them. I've never had one break on me either, and the construction on this pack is top notch to say the least. I'm not worried about it at all.



I'm hitting up REI tomorrow, I'll see if they have any better substitutes.



I'm going to replace the G2 with an LED light (I've actually got a couple G2 LEDs, 1 in GHB/work bag and 1 in vehicle); like I said in an earlier post I've got a bunch of these laying around and just threw one in there.



They're for the tarp/poncho. They're tiny and weigh practically nothing.



Nah, I've done the Army canteen/canteen cup/mini stove thing before, there are much better options out there. I'll keep the Jetboil before I do that again. As it is I'm taking the advice of some others here and am going to give an alcohol stove a shot.



Not enough water? I can carry up to 5L of water - 3L Source bladder (I'll take Source over Camelbak any day, BTW), 1L Nalgene, and 1L Aqua Pouch. I have a water filter and purification tabs, and in East Texas there is no shortage of water sources. I'm pretty comfortable with what I've got there.



You may have missed the poncho/tarp that I am carrying? Also, the tent is a Snugpak Stratosphere bivy - pretty small and light itself. I personally dislike waking up with snakes and bugs and shit crawling all over me and in my bag, and prefer being fully enclosed. It also offers superior rain and wind protection. I've done the sleeping under the stars with only a poncho between you and the storm in the Army thing too... I'll pass if I have a choice.



I could probably ditch this one, too, but occasionally it's nice to have something for some earth remodeling. I'm not going to carry an etool, though. Just not enough use for it to justify that weight. I'm not going to be digging any bunkers or filling sandbags... I haven't decided if I'll keep this one yet.



This one I'll probably at least try.

Day after tomorrow I'm going to sit down and reorganize some things, and then take it out for a hike. I'll see where that leads me...

Since you say you're in East Texas (I'm from hot/dry South Texas, but since I married an East Texas gal I've revised my opinions about that region), a substantial part of your gear has to be devoted to weather:

- Rain gear is a must in your area (IMO).  You've got a poncho.  Try it out and see if it works for you with your pack and gear.  It rains all the damned time there, so experiment.  I've carried frogg toggs in my truck bag for years, but recently added a poncho and it's growing on me.  I'd still try and wear something water repellent on my legs if I was in the serious wet.

- Dry socks (one of the most miserable things to me is wet feet).  More is better.  One on your feet, one in a zip loc, and maybe a third vaccuum sealed for when things get really bad.

- water.  You've got it, but (as others have said) it's hard to understate the wonderfulness of a camelbak (or similar reservoir-based systems).  If you haven't tried one, please do... if you're like me it'll change your whole notion of hydration on the go.  I love mine so much I wear it when I'm working in the yard.

- shelter that can handle the summer heat and is still good in the rain.  Do you have a decent groundcloth?  Sleeping on wet ground just plain sucks, even if you have something to keep the rain off.

- I'd ditch the big knife.  It's personal preference, but I think they're just plain stupid (and a serious waste of space/weight).  My opinion (worth what you paid for it) is that if I find myself in a position where I need one, it's the result of a long series of failures in other areas (that I can hopefully avoid).

- Sunscreen.  There are loads of lousy ones, and several decent ones, but only one Presun.  It's expensive but (IMO) the best stuff on the market.  And get some chapstick (don't remember if I saw it in your pics).

- Bug repellent.  Test it before you need it.  The bugs can get thick in East Texas.  I found out the hard way that mine (100% deet) made me sick as a dog (which would have sucked if I was in an emergency situation already).  It's weird what your body can have a strange reaction to.  I just say this because of my own experience.  Do you have a bug bar?  I don't think I'd ever try sleeping outside in that part of the country without one.  If nothing else, you can amuse yourself in the evening watching the big skeeters push the little skeeters through the mesh.

- Due to the excessive amount of soggy ground between (roughly) Caldwell and Louisiana (and beyond), I'd recommend lashing a pair of rubber boots to your pack.  I've never found a pair that I'd want to hike cross country in, but in the case of getting through a particularly shitty area, the feet you save may be your own.

- Lots of people like the Jetboil.  if you're one of them, great... stick with it.  I think it's big and bulky compared to lots of setups.  I can go an extra 30 secs  - 1 min in boiling 2 cups of water water to save a little space.  I used to love alcohol stoves, but my MSR is top of the heap for me today.  Again, it's all about what you like.

I think your area is a particularly hard one for general survival simply because of the great variance in seasons.  You can get shitty cold in winter and dangerously hot/humid in the summer... and it's always fucking wet.  I recommend a bag of colder weather gear that you stick in the bag about September and (maybe) remove in about April (if you plan on using your gear regularly... if it sits in the closet waiting for zombie-day just leave the cold gear in there I guess).  Exactly how much cold/weather gear is up to you and your personal preferences, but really you need a few dry runs during different times of the year before you really know.  There's a world of difference between a weekend at the deer camp and a weekend in a homemade hooch in the pouring rain (whether it's January or July).  You probably already know that, but it's worth saying.

Last thing:  get it out and use it.  Every time I spend a weekend in the woods I learn something.  Every time I change my gear, I find things that are important and things that are useless.  What sounds great on the couch isn't always worth a pinch of owl shit in the woods.

I've got to chime in here on footwear...

You suggested rubber boots. To me, that's a big, heavy item that would really suck to lug around and suck even worse to hike in.

My solution for footwear is lightweight, comfortable tennis shoes with wool socks.

If the weather turns ugly, or the ground turns muddy, I put on a pair of SealSkinz OVER my wool socks (or with a liner of some kind). This keeps my feet from getting soaked from the outside and keeps the mud out from between my toes. If my shoes get nasty from mud, I dunk 'em or wipe them down at a stream or something when appropriate. My shoes are lightweight enough that they will more or less dry out overnight.

SealSkinz socks are admittedly spendy (I think I paid about $40 for mine from REI), but they are, IMO, the best solution to wet/muddy/cold conditions for feet. They weigh less than a separate pair of boots, and they allow me to avoid wearing Goretex shoes (Which I hate worse than not having oatmeal creme pies available. That's really saying something.)

Also, if conditions warrant, I'll bring along some knee-high gators. They can really help out to slow down mud and wetness from coming in over the sock.

I agree and noted this, but for someone that lives in an area with > 50"/year of rain I'd say you need something.  Your solution may in fact be better.

I'm also not sure I want to be wearing wool socks when it's >100F outside.  My feet start to sweat like hell in wool socks over about 80....

Eh, I think i'll pass on the rubber boots...

I'm doing a little reorganizing and then taking it out for a 5 or so mile hike tomorrow, I'll report back afterwards.

I wear the same wool socks in hot weather (100, 110, 120 sometimes)... the key is that they do not chafe and blister. They still have to be rotated, but no blisters.

IMO,

Multi tool and headlamp are WIN, but in case there is any question, coin cell lights suck badly.

Listen to SabreCat, except for the multitool and headlamp part...

Kabar and Jetboil are neutral, have advantages/disadvantages.

Get a light that has battery commonality w/ your headlamp. A single AAA light would be a good way to go.

For 3 days you can leave most of the little bottles of stuff.

Don't take two packs, it weighs a ton for what you get.

Buy ultralight tent stakes if you have to have them. It is a cheap way to save weight. Something like $20 for 12 aluminum stakes at .25oz each?

Everything else has already been mentioned.

That don't work for me.  I've run marathons in poly/cotton socks and never had much problem with blisters or chafing on my feet.  Even light wool socks = uber sweaty feet for me.

Once again, it's all about trying different stuff and finding out what works for you personally.

OK, I've made some adjustments and ditched a few things. The following are gone:

- Kabar
- extra folder (got one on me)
- Extra multitool (got one on me and a small one in the Pocket Survival kit)
- T-shirt
- Spade tool
- Sewing kit
- Half of the 550 cord
- Some of the wipes

The following has been replaced/changed:

- Bug spray and suntan lotion bottles - replaced by a single Sawyer lotion/bug spray combo bottle
- Coleman shit tickets replaced by a full roll in a ziploc - you guys were right, can get more like that and it's the stuff my ass really likes to snuggle with
- LMF spork has been replaced with a titanium version
- have 3 pairs of socks (1 heavy for CW and 2 light for normal TX weather) all together in ziploc bag
- replaced 4 of the AA Eneloops w/ 4 AAA Eneloops since some of my gadgets use those; now have 4 x AA and 4 x AAA
- Added a Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor liner

Other changes coming:

- I have an alcohol stove setup on order (I got the Sierra Combo here and will use it with this ) and am going to play around with it before I put it in there. It should be a lighter and more compact setup than the Jetboil, and as long as performance is adequate it will replace the Jetboil.
- the G2 will be replaced with an LED light. I already have 2 of the Streamlight Microstream 1xAAA lights in there (1 in the Kifaru, 1 in the Pocket Survival kit); they are great lights and weigh practically nothing, but I want something with more power for those times when I want to see everything
- will get a USB AAA charger I can use with the Powerfilm to charge AAAs
- I am not satisfied with my food options. I am going to make my own food and package it in mylar w/ O2 absorbers, rotate it annually or bi-annually. Meals will be similar to MH but more compact and I can make exactly what I want. I am still trying to figure out snacks and such.

To answer a couple of questions...
- If you're wondering why I still have some redundancy with the Pocket Survival kit, it's because that is something that is kept on 1st line in the event the pack has to be ditched - like I've got to run now or I am going to die, or I've ditched the pack and was separated from it due to a fight, but I still have something useful on me.
- the tent stakes are ultralight stakes for use w/ 550 and the poncho/tarp. There will probably be trees around, but that is not certain, and with the stakes and poles I have more options.
- I am keeping the Kifaru setup for now. I am going to test it out today with bladder in the Kifaru (BTW, I can actually get a full bladder in there, couldn't do that with my old E&E). Like I've said I have done a similar setup before with an E&E and it worked fine - it's designed to work like that - and I'm not anticipating any problems, but if it is a problem I will change things. I will also find a way to move the bladder into the main pack if that is a huge problem.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the suggestions, even if I don't take them all. I've filled the bladder and nalgene with water and it weighs in at 40lbs even, not too bad after adding 4L of water. This is alot less than I carried in the military at times, and it might go lower with some future changes. I am taking it out in a couple of hours and will report back afterwards.

Hiking is not the same as running a marathon. In fact, the two couldn't be more different if they tried.

Regarding food -

I honestly do not like MH. At all.

I have this theory, bourne of days of hiking, that food should have a natural volume/calorie ratio. If the food has more volume than it does calories, then you can eat and 'feel full' but not actually be calorically satisfied - you'll feel strangely hungry but not like you have the capacity to eat anything. I feel that MH is very disbalanced in terms of calories to volume - far more volume than it should have for the number of calories.

Bear in mind that I'm talking about eating MH after days of exertion burning off thousands and thousands of calories.

Also, MH has sooo much sodium in it that if you (or at least, me) try and top it off with some other kind of trail food (Who tend to be higher in sodium anyway), you'll suffer horrific heartburn.

Personally, I find that a better solution is simple pre-packaged 'just boil' foods from wal-mart. Things like EZ-Mac-n-Cheese, Knorr sides, summer sausage, pop-tarts, instant mashed potatoes (AND HOW!), and oreo cookies (very important part of the diet)... and bagels if you have the luxury. Having the extra starch and carbohydrate boost of a simple bag of bagels is a really good thing for snacks and lunch.

Also, while foods like that will drive you into an early cardiac arrest if you eat them daily at home - they're still closer to what you eat normally than MH ever will be.

I've tried making my own meals with dehydrated food. Don't get me wrong, it works and you can definitely make a huge quantity of food for very little weight and space. The problem I found was that straight dehydrating makes the food SO TOUGH that you have to boil it a few minutes short of eternity to make it edible (And god help you if you don't rehydrate it adequately... it would come back out of you in very short order, looking the same as it did when it went into you, and you will still be hungry)

Foods that you buy off the shelf are not heat-dehydrated, but rather freeze-dried... so they require much less rehydrating to make them edible.

Sweaty feet are sweaty feet.  My points were (1) that I've tried wool socks (for hiking) in warm weather and they just don't work for me and (2) cotton/poly socks don't chafe/blister me any worse than any other kind of sock  That's all I was trying to get at.