Hi all,

First, I'll start off by saying that I am aware this conversation has been had many times here, but I'm gonna ask the question one more...

I'm looking to pick up what I'm terming a "predator" gun. Primary purpose will be protection while hunting / hiking / camping, etc., in bear country. Most bears around here aren't really that big, and the ones down in the Appalachians aren't a ton bigger. Much to my displeasure, I don't think I'll be in Alaska any time soon, so I'm more concerned about black bears than grizzlies. Much more than bears, I'm concerned about predators of the two-legged variety. I like the penetration of hard cast lead for bears, but i like the capacity of the glock for people. I have my search narrowed down to 2 options:

1) Riuger Redhawk in .44mag

Pros:

Hard Cast Lead
>1000ftlbs ME

Cons:

Heavy
Expensive
Low Capacity

2) Glock 20

Pros:

High Capacity
Relatively Light Weight
cheaper

Cons:

I've read that it's a bad idea to shoot hard cast lead out of polygonal rifling.
<750 ftlbs of ME
hard to find ammo

I'm looking for any input in making a decision that anybody would like to give. Anything at all would be appreciated. Thanks!

I voted Glock based on capacity, weight and durability.

If you reload (and I'm guessing you do based on the lead question), look into the newish coated lead.  Vendors such as Blue Bullets, SNS Casting and Bayou Bullets among others sell coated lead.  Many high volume shooters (3Gun, USPSA) have sent a ton of these down range.  Reports are that it works fine in Glocks.  Price is midway between plated and lead.

Bear spray ( mace ) , large size
Glock 20 with 6 inch barrel  & hard cast lead

Remington 870.

A)Never hunt alone

.44 magnum

Here's my two cents...

As someone who regularly hikes, canoes and otherwise spends time in the Adirondacks, I've come to some conclusions:  1) The risk of 'issues' from bears is likely less than the risk of issues from two legged predators and/or their canines.  2) Heavy guns SUCK and quickly end up left at home.

My hiker gun is a S&W 60 Pro, 3" 357 loaded with 158 gold dots.  It's light enough that I carry it virtually at all times in the woods.  I've tried others, including full-sized steel 1911's, a model 13 and others and they simply become a real pain because of weight.

The .44 will definitely do the trick, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that after a half dozen or so outings it gets left at home because of weight.  No only is the Glock lighter, its got more firepower, which would be of use if you had issues with two legged predators.

If you haven't handled a block 20/21 before, do so before ordering.  I'm not block fan boy, but I own a few.  All of them work acceptably well for me except the 20/21.  The damned grip seems like holding a full-sized 2x4...

Shooting cast lead in polygon rifling supposedly can be an issue, since it apparently builds up over time and increases pressures.  You will not experience issues with a couple of magazines worth of shooting.  Regulrly remove lead fouling, on a frequent basis, would reduce potential issues.  Or use something on the order of a fully clad bullet (a wide me plat flat nosed truncated cone FMJ) if you want penetration without possibility of leading.

fro

"You can't outrun a bear!"

"I know, I just have to outrun you."

a really loud whistle or bring a dog or both?

I did vote for the .44


just saying

500 Magnum FTMFW !

The Glock 20 with Hornady XTP 180gr. should handle 2 and 4 legged threats pretty well. You might even want to go with a lighter gun.

I see a disturbing lack of long guns on your list. I voted 44 but either would probably do what you need.

Nice gun.  Sweeeeeeeeeet blade!!



 

yea, no doubt,  what is that blade

Edit:  nvm......randall

Thanks very much for your responses everybody. I really appreciate the input. As of right now, I'm leaning toward the Redhawk I think.

As far as the possibility of a long gun, I think this gun would serve two primary purposes:

1) To act as a sidearm while hunting with a long gun
2) To carry while backpacking / hiking in scenarios where a long gun would not be practical

Ar pistol. 458 socom

Between my 21 SF and my Ruger Blackhawk 45LC, I took the Ruger with 255 gr HPs that I loaded to around 1000-1100 fps...

So I'm going 44 mag..

For Appalachian black bears my Ruger sp101 with hard cast lead in the 180 grain range would definitely do just fine. It would do fine on people too. I know it's not going to be popular but it would put a hole clean through a medium sized bear.

780 ft pd. of M.E.

New Glock 40 in 10mm, little more velocity and energy with the 6" barrel.

Handle a redhawk before buying one.  I could not get used to the grip shape on it and sold it.  Something like the super redhawk or smith 629 work better for me.



I like 44 mag.  But it is one of those rounds you have to decide to use and practice with.  



I don't really have anything against the glock though.  An aftermarket barrel will eat lead without the buildup and you will probably have zero reliability issues out of that barrel.  The slightly tighter chamber might even make reloading easier, shells deform a bit less from what I have read.



As someone said, the grip of the glock 20 is what it is.  My hand shape could work the gun fine but it was never comfortable.



One thing I liked about the glock 20 was grams made a +5 extension for the magazines and others might also make extensions now.  20rds of 10mm +1 in chamber was a lot of fun when out with friends.  Especially if someone had a revolver or something along.  3 reloads is 18 rds for a 6 shooter, the glock still had 3 more rds to go.



These days I don't really plink a lot.  I am happy with regular factory loaded 44 mag ammo.  No worries about needing full power 44 mag and really a lot of my shooting is more with 44 special type loads since I enjoy those and they do what I want done for little varmints around the property.

Flathead9,

I'm gonna go with what froz said about counting the grams...watch the weight.

That said.

I know a guy that got a G20 to have as a sidearm for bush flying in AK years ago.  He said that he could get 10mm factory loads that were 357mag and sometimes 41mag equal.  Then he said he figured that 15 shots of 357 was better than 6 shots of 357.

When it comes to discussing handguns for defense against bears, make, model and chambering are all irrelevant.  All that matters is that you file the front sight down flush.

This is what I was going to suggest also with an RMR is nice to have instead of irons

I'm sure you understand just how rare bear attacks are in wisconsin. I'm good friends (somewhat related) to one of the most experienced black bear field researchers in the country, she has personally handled 1000s of bears. In her 30+ years of tracking and intentionally getting up close to wild Wisconsin black bear she has had 1 issue that she describes as "nothing really".

That is not to say you shouldn't respect the black bear, or you shouldn't worry about the black bear. You're just far more likely to have to deal with a two legged d-bag then a four legged one. So focus on that.

Thanks...yeah, I know they probably aren't much of an issue here. I mean, they really aren't much of an issue in the Appalachians either. I'm sure I probably have a 10,000% better chance dying in a car accident on the way to the mountains, but for some reason there's just something troubling about being in the woods with something that weighs 500 pounds and could tear my head off if it wanted to. I also agree that the 2 legged variety of predators are much more of a threat, but the way I look at it is if it will take down a bear, it'll take down a shitbag.

Glock 20SF.

I had a. 4 inch .44. Anaconda, after about 300 rounds I decided it was more gun than I wanted to carry. It was very hard to shoot compared to my 357s, twice as big to carry, twice as expensive to shoot and twice the recoil.

I carry a G20SF in the woods now. Feel more well rounded, easier to carry and shoot!

ETA since I primarily carry and shoot Glock 9mms, the G20 was quick and easy to get up to speed with and takes less practice to stay proficient with than a big bore wheel gun. I do still have my Blackhawk .45, so should I ever go to Alaska, I will most likely take that over my G20.

G17
And dog.

I live in an area that is heavily populated by black bears.
Commonsense goes a long way in not being mauled /killed.

I've had five under 7-9 yard encounters in the last year...not once was a weapon needed.
That said...I keep a hand powered air horn near my front door ..two flash lights..
Even fasrting at a black bear here is illegal ....

I worry more about stray dog's ...yotes and 2 legged critters ...

Ymmv

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I walk a lot in the woods with my dog, and saw six bears last spring.  I think it is more important to carry a gun that you are competent with, and can shoot well.  you probably will never have to shoot a bear, but as others here have suggested, you are more likely to have a problem with smaller 4 legged critters (rabid foxes, racoons, etc.) or 2 legged ones. to get confident and accurate with a bigger gun will cost lots of money in ammo spent.  I carry a glock 34 this time of year, and my summer carry p938 during the warmer months. Even though we have seen quite a few bears I am more concerned about my dog tangling with a sick animal. Just my two cents.

12 gauge slugs... but since that isn't an option, went with the Glock 20. Not necessarily because of the round choice but because I am like 100x more proficient with a Glock than I am any revolver. Software issue.

I know it's not a popular opinion on this site, but bear spray is the best first option.

Between the two choices listed I voted for .44 Mag.  My own choice is .41 Mag, which I don't feel under-gunned with at all in Michigan.

5-7

Well, your needs match what we deal with daily right out our front and back doors.  We will not even walk or train the dogs without a gun.  Not so much because of Bears but rather the Wolves.  If Wolves are downwind from the house, the dogs wont even set foot off the patio to piss until they watch the property for awhile.  I always scan the yard with a spotlight when I let them out and keep one at each end of the house.  One of the dogs has learned to wait on the light to scan the edge of the forest. We have two Labs and we hunt with them so even with a shotgun in hand we need a handgun.  Plus, we just wont go unarmed.  Typical Grouse country, we often cant see 15 yards ahead.

The best gun is the one on you.  I have used and carried a G21 for many years.  I find the weight of that gun and extra mags a bit overkill when I am already wearing heavier Fall or Winter clothing.  So our "bear" guns include G21, G17, G19 and Beretta Nano.  The key I have found is having multiple ways of carrying the guns on you and still being able to access it quickly.  In winter if I am hunting, it is in a bag on my shoulder.  Working around the property, a drop leg holster.  If I am going deep, I will take an AR and set it near my tools or equipment.  One day in 2013, a bunch of guys deer hunting drove 7 bears out of a small patch of corn and one of them drove over to let me know.  He knew I was out cutting some wood and two of the bears were big and pissed.  I didn't even worry about it.  Had he said Wolves, I would have stopped.

Overall I think the G20 will be more versatile then a large revolver.  Many of the ways I carry the G21 also work for a G19.  If I find myself in a real situation with a bear, I am comfy with 15 rounds of 9mm versus 13 of .45.  I am not hunting with either gun.  Even a Nano is better than a bare fist.  Dogs tend to keep away the Bears but draw the Wolves.  Even when I am cutting wood or whatever, I take at least one dog.  I may have on hearing protection but if I can see the dog, I know if something is around.  We are up to our ass in huge bears here, but the Wolves are what I worry about most.  Then pot growers.

We may do one last Grouse hunt this week just for the dogs sake.  I may just sling a light weight AR on my back.  For winter use, its actually a bit easier.

As far as revolvers go, up here .357 is enough and easier to carry.  I got rid of all my .44s long ago.  I just have no desire to do a sub zero revolver reload so revolvers tend to be in spots I may bump into something after dark, like the garage.

There was a video awhile back with a guy using a G29 to drop a moose that was attacking him on his snowmobile. I've heard more than a few times it was nice for the woods because it was  easy to carry and had both power and capacity.




 

Well anything can kill anything if you hit 'em in the right place.

Black bears are weenies for the most part, never had to do more than yell at 'em.

Grizz is a different matter entirely, don't think i'd be comfortable with a 10mm.

Ruger Redhawk in .45 colt, roll yer own with some 300-325 gr. sledgehammers at around 1400 fps or better. That'll take the wind out of the sails of any creature on this continent.

All - thanks very much for your input. I went ahead and ordered the Redhawk today. Should be in sometime next week!

Neither.  Carry spray, 12ga or a fricken long rifle.  If you must carry a pistol, the 10mm is not even in the same ball park as a 44mag.  I'd rather take 310gr hard cast over 180gr any day of the week as you're pushing double the lead content at the same velocity. You can argue hi cap all you want but if you need more than six rounds against a bear, you have already lost that battle. I suggest you practice.

I wouldn't under estimate black bears. I have taken 13 in my lifetime and not one dropped in it's tracks.

In case anybody is interested, this is the ammo I think I'm going to order: Heavy .44 Magnum Ammo - 305 gr. L.B.T.-L.F.N. (1,325 fps/M.E. 1,189 ft. lbs.)

...and this is the holster I think I'm going to order: Sourdough Pancake

I like the pancake holster because it keeps the gun tight to the hip and provides a lot of protection. Plus, if you want to you can get it set up in a chest holster with just a couple straps.

I carry my 44Mag Redhawk 5" in a Sourdough.  It's a great holster and it allows for cross draw.  Their chest rig is something to be desired.  If you want a hands free rig, I wear this one fishing and it's damn near perfect  http://www.diamonddcustomleather.com/Chest_Holsters.php

A .460 or a Redhawk in .45 Colt would be my first choices for a pistol.

Love this gun.

Unless you are worried about grizzlies, go with the G20

I did not click on the link to ammo, make sure it will load in the redhawk and I think most will load in the redhawk.  About anything loads in a super redhawk.  I think the super blackhawk has limits on load length.



Biggest thing I recomend is simply getting used to your revolver.



Ammo cost can be an issue as well, I got 44 mag ammo way back when and have not had to buy for a decade or so I guess.  I reload now and then but do not have a reloading press set up all the time.



As much as I love rip snortin rounds, I find I do not enjoy shooting them much.



That was part of why I tried various grips on the redhawk and eventually sold it.  Some folks are willing to reshape the metal and make that grip work.  I was not.



Super redhawk with all rubber along the backstrap is more what I prefer.

I went with G20 because you used the words Camping and Hiking. Any extra weight sucks.

If you're looking at a Glock... go with a Glock 29.

Smith and Wesson Model 69 or the Ruger Redhawk 4.2 in 45 Long Colt. I am looking for a used one as I type this.

RS

The 29 is a shortened up 20.  It is thicker than a 19.



Due to the way my hand is put together I fine the 29 and 20 and the 45 acp versions to be awkward to handle.



19 and 23 and whatever the 357 sig verison is are just fine for grip size.



I know the original poster ordered a redhawk already but I did not want anyone making the mistake of thinking a 29 is the exact same size as a 19.



I think most of why I carry a 44 mag is because I rather like it.  It is what it is, and I like the revolver and have a nice holster made up for it along with a belt and some speed loader holders.



Depends on what I am doing, even in the woods I sometimes prefer to keep firearms concealed.



Around here there are a ton of places to park and go for a walk but there sure are a lot of weirdos out there with the same concept.  So concealed is better for the surprise in some cases.

The issue of lead and glock barrels is the build up. As long and you clean and scrub that barrel well to remove leading then it's fine.

I voted glock based on capacity, familiar shape/size, weight, holster availability and comfort, and capacity to serve other uses with less "hot" 10mm loads...

if I was going to buy a dedicated bear gun I would probably get a .460 tho... I just dont like revolvers.  I have a .357 with some buffalo bore 180gr hard cast, putting out around 775 ft lbs at the muzzle which I have ostensibly for this purpose, but that is something i sort of ended up with and didnt really choose.

for Grizzly get the .44

In a handgun I would probably go with a .41 Magnum revolver. It isn't THAT heavy, recoil is slightly more than a .357, and power is almost in .44 territory.