Update on Berlin BATFE Raid - Page 31

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Update on Berlin BATFE Raid (Page 31 of 46)

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:29:30 AM EDT

[#1]

"Olofson also had a manual that described how to convert a semiautomatic AR-15 to an automatic M-16 by substituting the very M-16 parts that were in Olofson’s gun."

Ok....just because you have a book that explains how to do something, doesn't mean you are going to do it.

That is just simply retarded. Olofson, I pray that after the debacle that was your trial, you are fully exonerated on appeal or this just all goes away.

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:03:24 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I did find last evenings broadcast surprising to say the least. Please note that half of the video on the net is not there, that being the part with the LEAA ripping the ATF on their practices. But the first half is still intact. I would hope everyone who hasn’t already would drop Lou Dobbs a note and thank him for what can only be described as unwavering and steadfast support for gun owners the likes of which I have never seen on a major network. It looks like we now have one singular friend in the mainstream media not afraid to stand up on our rights and take a rock solid stand, not just give it passing lip service. Don’t let that support go unnoticed.

Done:

Just received this follow-up sometime yesterday:

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Posted: 5/13/2008 6:12:00 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
"Olofson also had a manual that described how to convert a semiautomatic AR-15 to an automatic M-16 by substituting the very M-16 parts that were in Olofson’s gun."

Ok....just because you have a book that explains how to do something, doesn't mean you are going to do it.

That is just simply retarded. Olofson, I pray that after the debacle that was your trial, you are fully exonerated on appeal or this just all goes away.

I have a book explaining how to make certain poisons from plants.

I have those plants growing wild on my property.....

The poisons the book mentions are illegal to own.....

Am I constructively possessing these plants?

This reminds me of the joke about the "rapist" who was constructively possessing his own penis.

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:31:14 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
An even better question: If you made an illegal MG why would you loan it out?

Most criminals are pretty stupid.

Posted: 5/13/2008 7:14:04 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
An even better question: If you made an illegal MG why would you loan it out?

Most criminals are pretty stupid.

Are you saying BR is a criminal?

Posted: 5/13/2008 7:55:55 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
An even better question: If you made an illegal MG why would you loan it out?

Most criminals are pretty stupid.

Posted: 5/13/2008 8:22:41 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
An even better question: If you made an illegal MG why would you loan it out?

Most criminals are pretty stupid.

Are you saying BR is a criminal?

no shes just stating the fact that just because something is stupid it isn't any sort of a defense you can use in court.

My question is that since BR is considered to be an AR15/M16 expert due to his military experience, surely he knew that his rifle had the M16 parts in it so why didn't he just take care of those parts long ago? He's either very brave or naive. Either way he's in a hell of a jam and I feel sorry for him, especially moreso if he's in this jam because he was brave enough to stand up against the tyranny and corruption hes now experiencing. I hope things work out well today.

Posted: 5/13/2008 8:25:03 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
An even better question: If you made an illegal MG why would you loan it out?

Most criminals are pretty stupid.

Are you saying BR is a criminal?

Nope. You asked a question; I answered it. Personally I'm not dumb enough to 1) manufacture a machine gun before filing a Form 2, and 2) even if I were, I'm not dumb enough to loan it out. ATF, who deals primarily with stupid criminals, probably figures BR is that stupid, and acted accordingly when prosecuting this case.

When all this started I seriously doubt ATF had a clue of the ****storm that this case would create, both among the gun-owning community and in the media.

Oh, and just so we're all clear, I'm a she.

Posted: 5/13/2008 8:59:21 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:...Oh, and just so we're all clear, I'm a she.

sorry bubbles i fixed it

Posted: 5/13/2008 10:28:24 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
surely he knew that his rifle had the M16 parts in it so why didn't he just take care of those parts long ago?

Is there a list of the parts posted that he had in his rifle?

Anyhow, Best of luck today David!!

Posted: 5/13/2008 10:58:17 AM EDT

[#11]

So the hearings on the motions and possible sentencing is scheduled for today right?

Posted: 5/13/2008 11:16:57 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
So the hearings on the motions and possible sentencing is scheduled for today right?

The hearing started this morning.

Posted: 5/13/2008 12:05:12 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
surely he knew that his rifle had the M16 parts in it so why didn't he just take care of those parts long ago?

Maybe because up until this case (and probably even after this case) it has never been considered illegal to have those parts in an AR15. Also, please note that IT CAME FROM THE FACTORY IN THAT CONFIGURATION!!!

Posted: 5/13/2008 12:10:35 PM EDT

[#14]

It's a little past 3 PM there. Hope we hear some good news soon. I would have thought it would be done by now. I've tried Google to see if there was any news from today but I came up empty. Then my search skills are weak.

Posted: 5/13/2008 12:12:13 PM EDT

[#15]

any news?

Posted: 5/13/2008 1:12:09 PM EDT

[#16]

Maybe he is too busy celebrating to post.

Posted: 5/13/2008 1:15:52 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Maybe he is too busy celebrating to post.

One can only hope.

Posted: 5/13/2008 1:28:30 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Maybe he is too busy celebrating to post.

From your keyboard to God's ear!

Posted: 5/13/2008 1:58:15 PM EDT

[#19]

height=8

Quoted:
Maybe he is too busy celebrating to post.

I sure hope so!

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:01:40 PM EDT

[#20]

I'm getting worried.

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:19:24 PM EDT

[#21]

30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:29:54 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

no way!

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:30:26 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

I presume this is from the horse's mouth? If so, we are screwed.

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:32:04 PM EDT

[#24]

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:42:43 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

AND - don't forget - he has lost forever his Second Amendment right to arms.

I'm going to the NRA convention this weekend. I expect this will be a MAJOR topic of discussion there.

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:45:58 PM EDT

[#26]

Damn again.

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:53:52 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
I'm going to the NRA convention this weekend. I expect this will be a MAJOR topic of discussion there.

Dude, this should have been a major discussion from the start...not the finnish!

Posted: 5/13/2008 2:59:39 PM EDT

[#28]

Well kiss my ass.

When the .gov wants you they can get you.

Posted: 5/13/2008 3:09:46 PM EDT

[#29]

Can BR remain free pending appeal? I wish I could say I am surprised, but sadly I'm not. Once someone gets convicted, especially by a jury, a judge will almost never vacate the judgement. I feel very bad for BR, and I can't imagine how he and his family feel.

Posted: 5/13/2008 3:25:29 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

This is simply awful.

Prayers ascend.

Posted: 5/13/2008 3:43:14 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

To the ATF - FUCK YOU!
To the Judge - You need to find another job.
To the Federal Government - GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER, OR WE'LL GET IT TOGETHER FOR YOU.

...That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable (PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO THIS), than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security

Best step lightly, it could be closer than we all think. These words are as true today as when they were first written, maybe more true.

Posted: 5/13/2008 3:53:52 PM EDT

[#32]

There are no words I can type to help BR or his family.
Only hope is appeal for new trial .
The BATF always gets what they want and no judge will change that . I have seen it too many times (over thirty five years )and it always works out the way they want it . I think they are sending us a message and I wish I knew what to do about there abuse of the power this Gov. has given them . Seems that no matter who you write or call or how many times , it never changes .We need to unite in some way , to let them all know how much BS this is. Any ideas ?

I must admit , CNN & Lou , through me a curve , never expected that from them . May be some hope .

Posted: 5/13/2008 4:11:19 PM EDT

[#33]

It's a very sad day.

Posted: 5/13/2008 4:13:55 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

What the FUCK!!!??

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:07:54 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
30 Months incarceration, 2 Years probation.

Notice of Appeal filed.

There but for the Grace of God go we all.

I had a feeling that this was going to be the case. He got less time than I had expected.

Does his sentence begin tonight?

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:10:20 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
There are no words I can type to help BR or his family.
Only hope is appeal for new trial .
The BATF always gets what they want and no judge will change that . I have seen it too many times (over thirty five years )and it always works out the way they want it . I think they are sending us a message and I wish I knew what to do about there abuse of the power this Gov. has given them . Seems that no matter who you write or call or how many times , it never changes .We need to unite in some way , to let them all know how much BS this is. Any ideas ?

I must admit , CNN & Lou , through me a curve , never expected that from them . May be some hope .

They don't always win or get what they want but they can't sure play the system to try.

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:15:19 PM EDT

[#37]

I apologize I didn't post more earlier, I was posting from my phone.

My faith in "The System"™ has been totally crushed.

I had the inside scoop reading the PACER docs from the beginning.
I've read the transcript in full (unable to be in the courtroom for trial).
I've seen BATFE's video.
I've heard both sides of the argument, and listened well to the Judge at the sentencing hearing today.

I fully expected a mistrial, a vacated verdict, or at least some acknowledgement of prosecutorial misconduct. Instead, I heard how the fact that Olofson once emailed "a Vigilante Group" (the Minutemen) makes him a threat to the public. How the fact that he had the gall to open carry a firearm (no law against OC in WI) while trick-or-treating around the children shows his dangerous unwillingness to abide by the State as well as the Federal law. How his talk of citizen sovereignty is proof of his willingness to circumvent the law. How his ~~twenty-some~~ nineteen* years of Military service was proof of his expertise at MG manufacturing. How the testimony of his "customer" (Kernicki) was to be taken at face value despite the fact that he contradicted himself and recanted on the stand.

I even watched as the Prosecution renewed it's objection to turning over exculpatory evidence based on income tax laws that specifically do not apply to the BATFE. The judge did not dispute this, but in the interest of "fairness" requested that the AUSA turn over anything they had. BATFE presented a single memorandum of regulatory compliance, which the Judge admitted in open court that it discussed Oly/SGW's use of M16 parts in the AR15's they produced for better than a decade.

"No exculpatory content" he said, and sealed the letter. The Defense wasn't even allowed to look at it.

Judge Clevert tacked on 30 hours of community service to each year of the probation based on the trick-or-treating Disorderly Conduct. The Notice of Appeal was filed, and Clevert allowed Bladerunner to report voluntarily for incarceration* based on no history of drug use as well as his exemplary conduct during the trial.

Prayers ascend indeed. I wasn't kidding when I typed "There but for the Grace of God...".
*ETA to answer Motown Steve: Sentence to start around a month from now, depending on when the BoP finds a place for him.

*Second edit: Fixed for accuracy.

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:27:46 PM EDT

[#38]

I guess the publicity didn't help him, rather made things worse. I hope and pray BR gets a decent appeals team and a judge worthy of the title

This is a sad day for the country, and it seems to be getting worse.

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:40:30 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I guess the publicity didn't help him, rather made things worse. I hope and pray BR gets a decent appeals team and a judge worthy of the title

This is a sad day for the country, and it seems to be getting worse.

I hope he gets better counsel.

Posted: 5/13/2008 5:48:48 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I apologize I didn't post more earlier, I was posting from my phone.

My faith in "The System"™ has been totally crushed.

I had the inside scoop reading the PACER docs from the beginning.
I've read the transcript in full (unable to be in the courtroom for trial).
I've seen BATFE's video.
I've heard both sides of the argument, and listened well to the Judge at the sentencing hearing today.

I fully expected a mistrial, a vacated verdict, or at least some acknowledgement of prosecutorial misconduct. Instead, I heard how the fact that Olofson once emailed "a Vigilante Group" (the Minutemen) makes him a threat to the public. How the fact that he had the gall to open carry a firearm (no law against OC in WI) while trick-or-treating around the children shows his dangerous unwillingness to abide by the State as well as the Federal law. How his talk of citizen sovereignty is proof of his willingness to circumvent the law. How his twenty-some years of Military service was proof of his expertise at MG manufacturing. How the testimony of his "customer" (Kernicki) was to be taken at face value despite the fact that he contradicted himself and recanted on the stand.

I even watched as the Prosecution renewed it's objection to turning over exculpatory evidence based on income tax laws that specifically do not apply to the BATFE. The judge did not dispute this, but in the interest of "fairness" requested that the AUSA turn over anything they had. BATFE presented a single memorandum of regulatory compliance, which the Judge admitted in open court that it discussed Oly/SGW's use of M16 parts in the AR15's they produced for better than a decade.

"No exculpatory content" he said, and sealed the letter. The Defense wasn't even allowed to look at it.

Judge Clevert tacked on 30 hours of community service to each year of the probation based on the trick-or-treating Disorderly Conduct. The Notice of Appeal was filed, and Clevert allowed Bladerunner to report voluntarily for incarceration* based on no history of drug use as well as his exemplary conduct during the trial.

Prayers ascend indeed. I wasn't kidding when I typed "There but for the Grace of God...".
*ETA to answer Motown Steve: Sentence to start around a month from now, depending on when the BoP finds a place for him.

Supprised they didn't mention him posting here. You can bet the BATFE is watching this place like a hawk looking for mice.

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:05:15 PM EDT

[#41]

That is horseshit!

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:11:00 PM EDT

[#42]

Stock up on lower parts kits and take a set of tools with you to the range gentlemen. If your gun doubles on you then strip the FCG, beat your feet off the range and get rid of the malfunctioning FCG immediately.

The US Attorneys now have precedent on the record. The law does not make exception for a firearm that is malfunctioning.

And never loan a gun to anyone, especially if you are not going to be with them at all times while the gun is in their possession.

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:17:51 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I apologize I didn't post more earlier, I was posting from my phone.

My faith in "The System"™ has been totally crushed.

I had the inside scoop reading the PACER docs from the beginning.
I've read the transcript in full (unable to be in the courtroom for trial).
I've seen BATFE's video.
I've heard both sides of the argument, and listened well to the Judge at the sentencing hearing today.

I fully expected a mistrial, a vacated verdict, or at least some acknowledgement of prosecutorial misconduct. Instead, I heard how the fact that Olofson once emailed "a Vigilante Group" (the Minutemen) makes him a threat to the public. How the fact that he had the gall to open carry a firearm (no law against OC in WI) while trick-or-treating around the children shows his dangerous unwillingness to abide by the State as well as the Federal law. How his talk of citizen sovereignty is proof of his willingness to circumvent the law. How his twenty-some years of Military service was proof of his expertise at MG manufacturing. How the testimony of his "customer" (Kernicki) was to be taken at face value despite the fact that he contradicted himself and recanted on the stand.

I even watched as the Prosecution renewed it's objection to turning over exculpatory evidence based on income tax laws that specifically do not apply to the BATFE. The judge did not dispute this, but in the interest of "fairness" requested that the AUSA turn over anything they had. BATFE presented a single memorandum of regulatory compliance, which the Judge admitted in open court that it discussed Oly/SGW's use of M16 parts in the AR15's they produced for better than a decade.

"No exculpatory content" he said, and sealed the letter. The Defense wasn't even allowed to look at it.

Judge Clevert tacked on 30 hours of community service to each year of the probation based on the trick-or-treating Disorderly Conduct. The Notice of Appeal was filed, and Clevert allowed Bladerunner to report voluntarily for incarceration* based on no history of drug use as well as his exemplary conduct during the trial.

Prayers ascend indeed. I wasn't kidding when I typed "There but for the Grace of God...".

*ETA to answer Motown Steve: Sentence to start around a month from now, depending on when the BoP finds a place for him.

I guess this explains why they went after him. He was a "militia nut".

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:25:33 PM EDT

[#44]

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:28:02 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I apologize I didn't post more earlier, I was posting from my phone.

My faith in "The System"™ has been totally crushed.

I had the inside scoop reading the PACER docs from the beginning.
I've read the transcript in full (unable to be in the courtroom for trial).
I've seen BATFE's video.
I've heard both sides of the argument, and listened well to the Judge at the sentencing hearing today.

I fully expected a mistrial, a vacated verdict, or at least some acknowledgement of prosecutorial misconduct. Instead, I heard how the fact that Olofson once emailed "a Vigilante Group" (the Minutemen) makes him a threat to the public. How the fact that he had the gall to open carry a firearm (no law against OC in WI) while trick-or-treating around the children shows his dangerous unwillingness to abide by the State as well as the Federal law. How his talk of citizen sovereignty is proof of his willingness to circumvent the law. How his twenty-some years of Military service was proof of his expertise at MG manufacturing. How the testimony of his "customer" (Kernicki) was to be taken at face value despite the fact that he contradicted himself and recanted on the stand.

I even watched as the Prosecution renewed it's objection to turning over exculpatory evidence based on income tax laws that specifically do not apply to the BATFE. The judge did not dispute this, but in the interest of "fairness" requested that the AUSA turn over anything they had. BATFE presented a single memorandum of regulatory compliance, which the Judge admitted in open court that it discussed Oly/SGW's use of M16 parts in the AR15's they produced for better than a decade.

"No exculpatory content" he said, and sealed the letter. The Defense wasn't even allowed to look at it.

Judge Clevert tacked on 30 hours of community service to each year of the probation based on the trick-or-treating Disorderly Conduct. The Notice of Appeal was filed, and Clevert allowed Bladerunner to report voluntarily for incarceration* based on no history of drug use as well as his exemplary conduct during the trial.

Prayers ascend indeed. I wasn't kidding when I typed "There but for the Grace of God...".

*ETA to answer Motown Steve: Sentence to start around a month from now, depending on when the BoP finds a place for him.

I guess this explains why they went after him. He was a "militia nut".

Yes sir, one email and you're a Nut...forget about ditching your Hard drives, they log your emails. I'm sure we're all listed anyhow the first time we replied to a firearm forum. They're probaly logging each person down and his replies for incase...

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:28:51 PM EDT

[#46]

Just a thought: It's typical for the president to hand down a bunch of pardons right before he leaves office right? Would a petition drive to have Mr. Olofson pardoned do anything?

Posted: 5/13/2008 6:43:44 PM EDT

[#47]

Any comment that expresses my true feelings would violate the CoC and get me banned.

Now I am very afraid for CavArms after watching this sham play out.

Posted: 5/13/2008 7:16:30 PM EDT

[#48]

www.davidkopel.com/2A/Olofson/2-OLOFSON-trial-TRANSCRIPT.pdf

www.davidkopel.com/2A/Olofson/3-OLOFSON-trial-TRANSCRIPT.pdf

Posted: 5/13/2008 7:21:28 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I apologize I didn't post more earlier, I was posting from my phone.

My faith in "The System"™ has been totally crushed.

I had the inside scoop reading the PACER docs from the beginning.
I've read the transcript in full (unable to be in the courtroom for trial).
I've seen BATFE's video.
I've heard both sides of the argument, and listened well to the Judge at the sentencing hearing today.

I fully expected a mistrial, a vacated verdict, or at least some acknowledgement of prosecutorial misconduct. Instead, I heard how the fact that Olofson once emailed "a Vigilante Group" (the Minutemen) makes him a threat to the public. How the fact that he had the gall to open carry a firearm (no law against OC in WI) while trick-or-treating around the children shows his dangerous unwillingness to abide by the State as well as the Federal law. How his talk of citizen sovereignty is proof of his willingness to circumvent the law. How his twenty-some years of Military service was proof of his expertise at MG manufacturing. How the testimony of his "customer" (Kernicki) was to be taken at face value despite the fact that he contradicted himself and recanted on the stand.

I even watched as the Prosecution renewed it's objection to turning over exculpatory evidence based on income tax laws that specifically do not apply to the BATFE. The judge did not dispute this, but in the interest of "fairness" requested that the AUSA turn over anything they had. BATFE presented a single memorandum of regulatory compliance, which the Judge admitted in open court that it discussed Oly/SGW's use of M16 parts in the AR15's they produced for better than a decade.

"No exculpatory content" he said, and sealed the letter. The Defense wasn't even allowed to look at it.

Judge Clevert tacked on 30 hours of community service to each year of the probation based on the trick-or-treating Disorderly Conduct. The Notice of Appeal was filed, and Clevert allowed Bladerunner to report voluntarily for incarceration* based on no history of drug use as well as his exemplary conduct during the trial.

Prayers ascend indeed. I wasn't kidding when I typed "There but for the Grace of God...".

*ETA to answer Motown Steve: Sentence to start around a month from now, depending on when the BoP finds a place for him.

I guess this explains why they went after him. He was a "militia nut".

The only person who may know why the ATF and the SAG went after BR so hard is BR. This is truly swatting a mosquito with a sledgehammer. Although, it is not rare or unusual.

Once upon a time, about 1971, Judge John J. Sirica sentenced a man to LIFE in prison for being in receipt of stolen goods. The man had bought a warehouse full of furniture (Antiques?) from an Antique dealer introduced to him by two of his best friends, two DC Cops. The prosecution said he was head of the Jewish Mafia (he wasn't), said that his family had fled the country (they were in the court room), etc. The two DC Cops, who could have testified as to his innocence: One dead, suicide. The other, never located.

If they want you, they will get you.

Posted: 5/13/2008 7:21:59 PM EDT

[#50]

Lessons learned
1. Don't exercise your 1st amendment rights in writing as they will be used against you.
2. Do not serve our country in the military, it's a training ground for criminal activity.
3. Under no circumstances exercise your 2nd amendment rights because if your gun malfunctions, a precedent has been set to lock you up.

Gee, thanks judge, I learned a lot today.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Update on Berlin BATFE Raid (Page 31 of 46)

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