The myth of magazine spring set. Pic inside.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The myth of magazine spring set. Pic inside. (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:35:41 PM EDT

Just in case anyone still thinks keeping mags loaded for long periods of time is bad for them...

The mag on the right was loaded continuously for 6 months. The one on the left was empty. Both springs are the same length. The loaded mag's spring did not take a "set".

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:37:00 PM EDT

[#1]

Kaboom!

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:38:03 PM EDT

[#2]

While I agree with you, I don't think 6 months is going to convince anyone of anything.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:40:29 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

While I agree with you, I don't think 6 months is going to convince anyone of anything.

There are people who unload mags and rotate them once a week. Just trying to save then some effort.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:40:37 PM EDT

[#4]

i thought it was gonna be 6 years

meh

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:40:42 PM EDT

[#5]

one of the gun rags had a couple articles about gun coming out of safety deposit boxes loaded after 40+ years a 1911 and a PPK IIRC both worked fine

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:42:44 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I agree with you, I don't think 6 months is going to convince anyone of anything.

There are people who unload mags and rotate them once a week. Just trying to save then some effort.

I clean mags to remove foreign objects...

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:45:09 PM EDT

[#7]

How do you know that the mag on the right had a spring that was not longer or stronger to begin with?

Did you take them apart and measure them?

The spring looks, and is probably "good to go", but if it was compressed continually for six straight months, it has lost some strength.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:47:40 PM EDT

[#8]

Your test doesn't prove anything. I have dozens of mags where the spring "shrank" after having been loaded. The real question is does it affect reliability? The answer is no for any modern quality mag.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:48:36 PM EDT

[#9]

Springs wear out from cycling. Either from compression, tension, or torsion depending on what type it is. That means from being used. Springs might take a "set" but this doesn't wear them out and shouldn't affect reliability unless it's a POS to begin with.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:49:49 PM EDT

[#10]

I am sick of this one too. I am a member of world war 2 online forum.. I once read a thread about a guy who's father served in wwII. Once the war was over and he returned home the 1911 he had was thrown in a duffle bag and thrown in the attic. A few years ago that man died so the son went through his stuff and found it. It was loaded for over 60 years. he took it to the range and fired on the first pull. which means it didn't lose its strength. After reading that story I always keep my mags loaded and don't worry about it. You can always stretch them back out like Colt's master gun smith stated in one of their videos.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:49:57 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Your test doesn't prove anything. I have dozens of mags where the spring "shrank" after having been loaded. The real question is does it affect reliability? The answer is no for any modern quality mag.

It proves that it didn't get any shorter than one that was not loaded for the same period of time.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:53:40 PM EDT

[#12]

Loaded Magazines vs. Unloaded Magazines: the Cycling vs. Constant Compression Debate, coming up shortly after the .45acp vs. 9mm Debate, here on the Flogging a Deceased Equine Channel!!!

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:53:46 PM EDT

[#13]

This is more of a physics question. That needs a scientific proven answer.

Posted: 10/25/2009 10:58:05 PM EDT

[#14]

In 1995 I shot two GI 1911 mags that had been loaded since 1945. Both shot all 7 rounds with no malfunctions.

I still use those mags now and they work fine.
From what I understand loading and unloading is MUCH harder on mag springs than leaving them loaded.

But I also understand that with modern springs it really won't hurt them anyway.

Posted: 10/25/2009 11:01:22 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
While I agree with you, I don't think 6 months is going to convince anyone of anything.

There are people who unload mags and rotate them once a week. Just trying to save then some effort.

That is doing more harm than good. Anyone that believes otherwise needs to do more research.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:32:42 AM EDT

[#16]

My great uncle had some 1911 mags loaded since he got back from Vietnam. Ran fine in 2005.

Spring set from leaving mags loaded is pure, unadulterated bullshit, and it has to stop.

Spring cycles (loading and unloading) is what wears them out.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:35:11 AM EDT

[#17]

I don't think springs wear out unless they are improperly made.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:40:19 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Springs wear out from cycling. Either from compression, tension, or torsion depending on what type it is. That means from being used. Springs might take a "set" but this doesn't wear them out and shouldn't affect reliability unless it's a POS to begin with.

this ftw

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:40:27 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

I don't think springs wear out unless they are improperly made.

That there.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:40:44 AM EDT

[#20]

I had 3 USGI 30rd mags loaded for 18 years.

Every round round fed just fine.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:45:16 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
How do you know that the mag on the right had a spring that was not longer or stronger to begin with?

Did you take them apart and measure them?

The spring looks, and is probably "good to go", but if it was compressed continually for six straight months, it has lost some strength.

If you study metallurgy, you'll find that compressing a spring once, even if it stays compressed, doesn't much effect it.

Take a piece of metal and bend it. That stresses the metal. Now bend it back. Repeat. It breaks after a few bends. Same with springs. It's the back and forth that ruins them, but holding them down.

Your shocks on your care are constantly compressed. That isn't what wears them tough. It's going over bumps.

I keep all my mags loaded all the time.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:46:37 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
How do you know that the mag on the right had a spring that was not longer or stronger to begin with?

Did you take them apart and measure them?

The spring looks, and is probably "good to go", but if it was compressed continually for six straight months, it has lost some strength.

Materials Science FAIL.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:49:29 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
I am sick of this one too. I am a member of world war 2 online forum.. I once read a thread about a guy who's father served in wwII. Once the war was over and he returned home the 1911 he had was thrown in a duffle bag and thrown in the attic. A few years ago that man died so the son went through his stuff and found it. It was loaded for over 60 years. he took it to the range and fired on the first pull. which means it didn't lose its strength. After reading that story I always keep my mags loaded and don't worry about it. You can always stretch them back out like Colt's master gun smith stated in one of their videos.

Does not mean that the spring was good. Just meant that there was a live round in the chamber...or am I just missing something?

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:50:45 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
The mag on the right was loaded continuously for 6 months. The one on the left was empty. Both springs are the same length. The loaded mag's spring did not take a "set".

My dad had a pistol stored for almost 30 years with the mags loaded. They work just fine.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:52:40 AM EDT

[#25]

Unloading and loading is what affects a spring more then remaining under compression. Constant compressing and decompressing is harder on a spring then leaving it either uncompressed or compressed.

Quoted:

Quoted:

While I agree with you, I don't think 6 months is going to convince anyone of anything.

There are people who unload mags and rotate them once a week. Just trying to save then some effort.

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:57:46 AM EDT

[#26]

What's the psi generated by the spring on the left when compressed as opposed to the spring on the right?

Posted: 10/26/2009 6:58:28 AM EDT

[#27]

This is one of those, "It depends" problems. Poorly designed springs can easily take a set. Really good springs, shouldn't.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:01:10 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How do you know that the mag on the right had a spring that was not longer or stronger to begin with?

Did you take them apart and measure them?

The spring looks, and is probably "good to go", but if it was compressed continually for six straight months, it has lost some strength.

Materials Science FAIL.

But will it weaken if it's decompressed onboard a plane which is trying to take off of a conveyor belt?

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:02:16 AM EDT

[#29]

But will the feed lips expand or distort?

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:05:08 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Unloading and loading is what affects a spring more then remaining under compression. Constant compressing and decompressing is harder on a spring then leaving it either uncompressed or compressed.

Quoted:

Quoted:

While I agree with you, I don't think 6 months is going to convince anyone of anything.

There are people who unload mags and rotate them once a week. Just trying to save then some effort.

Exactly. Basic materials engineering. If the load is less than the elastic limit, and the limit for creep, then the matel will return to the same state every time it's loaded and unloaded. The fatigue limit is where the real problem is. Depending on what the spring is made of, will depend on how it work hardens and changes the spring rate. A good spring should never hit this limit unless you are loading and unloading 20 times a day for 100 years.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:08:07 AM EDT

[#31]

A few months ago I found 4 mags for my 1911 A1 that had been loaded for more than twenty five years. They were in a box that hadn't been opened since I moved here in 1983. Took them out and shot them with no problem. I have re filed them and used them quite a bit since then with no problems.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:12:05 AM EDT

[#32]

I wiil take a pic of a loaded beretta mag that i refound after being lost since '93. Shot just fine last weekend.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:13:03 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Just in case anyone still thinks keeping mags loaded for long periods of time is bad for them...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Bloencustoms/SANY0043-2.jpg
The mag on the right was loaded continuously for 6 months. The one on the left was empty. Both springs are the same length. The loaded mag's spring did not take a "set".

Try that with an HK AR magazine and you might have a different outcome.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:13:48 AM EDT

[#34]

A spring is designed to operate in it's elastic range. It can operate forever in this range. If, however it is operated in the plastic range it will suffer degradation. Hooke's law defines this relationship and time is not a function. A properly designed spring can be compressed forever and not lose any stored energy.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:13:57 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Springs wear out from cycling. Either from compression, tension, or torsion depending on what type it is. That means from being used. Springs might take a "set" but this doesn't wear them out and shouldn't affect reliability unless it's a POS to begin with.

THIS.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:14:10 AM EDT

[#36]

To end the debate:

Does your recoil spring take a set? Everytime I disassemble my AR or M1-A or 1911, the recoil spring is REALLY trying to get back to its original length.

The main springs are trying to drive that hammer home, all the time, every time.

Cycling is what fatigues a spring.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:14:27 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Your test doesn't prove anything. I have dozens of mags where the spring "shrank" after having been loaded. The real question is does it affect reliability? The answer is no for any modern quality mag.

The springs in my magazines shrink EVERY TIME I load them.

Then, every time I unload them, they grow again!

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:15:35 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

A good spring should never hit this limit unless you are loading and unloading 20 times a day for 100 years.

The assumption is that you have a good spring.

Now there are people who thought they were buying really good mags at $50 a whack and finding out otherwise.
I guess my point is, if unsure, maybe best to err on the side of caution.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:16:16 AM EDT

[#39]

My magazines for my 92fs have been loaded since I got the gun in the early to mid 90's they still work fine for me.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:21:12 AM EDT

[#40]

The forces placed on a magazine spring by the rounds in the magazine are generally not enough to cause set.

However, spring set does happen. You just have to give the spring enough force.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:23:31 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
The forces placed on a magazine spring by the rounds in the magazine are generally not enough to cause set.

However, spring set does happen. You just have to give the spring enough force.

http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG

I see your point

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:25:13 AM EDT

[#42]

Your never going to know how much set your Spring has in it until the day your life is on the line and you have a Failure to Feed. Hopefully you live through that day..

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:27:06 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
The forces placed on a magazine spring by the rounds in the magazine are generally not enough to cause set.

However, spring set does happen. You just have to give the spring enough force.

http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG

LOL!

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:28:04 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

The forces placed on a magazine spring by the rounds in the magazine are generally not enough to cause set.

However, spring set does happen. You just have to give the spring enough force.

http://azbattlerifles.com/images/DSC043422.JPG

did you hit it with a hammer

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:29:07 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Your never going to know how much set your Spring has in it until the day your life is on the line and you have a Failure to Feed. Hopefully you live through that day..

The funny part is that if you are one of those people who constantly unloads his magazines to let them "rest," then YOU are the guy who's in more danger. Soooo ironic!

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:39:49 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Your never going to know how much set your Spring has in it until the day your life is on the line and you have a Failure to Feed. Hopefully you live through that day..

Or maybe on my boring ass wednesday trip to the range. You watch a lot of daytime tv there, dramaboy?

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:44:41 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

A good spring should never hit this limit unless you are loading and unloading 20 times a day for 100 years.

The assumption is that you have a good spring.

Now there are people who thought they were buying really good mags at $50 a whack and finding out otherwise.

I guess my point is, if unsure, maybe best to err on the side of caution.

Even if it's a crap spring, its still the loading and unloading cycling that damages it, NOT leaving it loaded.

Posted: 10/26/2009 7:49:27 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Your never going to know how much set your Spring has in it until the day your life is on the line and you have a Failure to Feed. Hopefully you live through that day..

Or maybe on my boring ass wednesday trip to the range. You watch a lot of daytime tv there, dramaboy?

You do realize your texas flag is all wonky right? Star should be pointed up to the top of the white bar...yours has caught the fail.