2 girls dead....State sends letter to .40 Glock owners..do you let yours get tested? Letter pg 6 - Page 6

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 2 girls dead....State sends letter to .40 Glock owners..do you let yours get tested? Letter pg 6 (Page 6 of 9)

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:07:28 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Are the ballistics data going to stay in Oklahoma or are they going to be shared with every federal, state and local agency?

What would the response be if one of the suspects agreed to volunteer so long as he had immunity?

There is a national ballistics registry that law enforcement agencies use. Since this appears to be a state agency requesting the weapons, it is highly likely that the resulting ballistic information will be stored in that national registry.

It was meant as a crime fighting tool...not as a means to have defacto registration of the firearms of law abiding citizens.

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:10:15 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
John Grisham wrote a book 'An Innocent Man' about several people who were wrongly convicted of murder in Ada Ok. The prosecutor and cops railroaded I think three people, put two on death row and one in for life. It's simple, they can't be trusted.

DUPE

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=745507&page=6

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:10:55 PM EDT

[#3]

No, I wouldn't turn mine in. If asked, I would simply refuse to answer questions. If pressured, I'd lie and say that I didn't own a Glock. Then I would seriously consider leaving the state.

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:18:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I'm sure this has been gone over, but if I were the murder, I'd replace the barrel and show up for the testing.

the barrel is serialized with the same number that is on the slide and frame. I imagine that if you showed up with a mismatched barrel, you'd have some explaining to do. Especially if you fit the description of the actual killer.

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:18:43 PM EDT

[#5]

Haven't read all 11 pages.

What makes them think it's even someone local in OK?

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:22:25 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm sure this has been gone over, but if I were the murder, I'd replace the barrel and show up for the testing.

the barrel is serialized with the same number that is on the slide and frame. I imagine that if you showed up with a mismatched barrel, you'd have some explaining to do. Especially if you fit the description of the actual killer.

IIRC, the description is "I think they might have been in a truck".

Without doing any research, I am thinking there could be a few trucks in OK.

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:28:45 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
No, I wouldn't turn mine in. If asked, I would simply refuse to answer questions. If pressured, I'd lie and say that I didn't own a Glock. Then I would seriously consider leaving the state.

That's exactly why you shouldn't talk to cops. In your scenario, now they CAN arrest you for lying to authorities and hindering an investigation.

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:30:09 PM EDT

[#8]

FU*K that

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:31:08 PM EDT

[#9]

If I had a question where my gun was during the period of the murder sure, otherwise, hell no.

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:33:21 PM EDT

[#10]

I too was shocked when I read about this in the Tulsa paper, and I'm certainly not condoning what OSBI has done, please look at it from LEO's view...

This heinous crime has shocked the hell out of all of us here in OK. These were two innocent children gunned down not far from one of their houses. They were found just a short time after it happened.

LEO has NO solid leads on any of it at this time, at least none that they are talking about. This was an act of desperation.

I have known Sheriff Jack Choate's family for a long time and they are good, solid people. Jack was a State Trooper for almost 40 years before he retired, and then he got "drafted" by the citizens of the county to serve as their sheriff even though he'd have rather stayed home and played with his grandkids. He's still one of the best cops that this state has ever seen and we have a long list of famous lawmen here.

And then the crime of the century gets dumped in your lap.

My prayers go out to both families and every single LEO who has worked on this case. These people have cried more tears than I could imagine, and that counts for the cops too.

Yes, the act proved that there IS INDEED gun registration, for the want of a better term, but these people acted out of what they could think to do to catch the monsters that murdered those kids...

Posted: 8/21/2008 1:52:34 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
please look at it from LEO's view...

OK, I read what you typed. I still have the same opinion. Fuck this noise.

but these people acted out of what they could think to do to catch the monsters that murdered those kids...

Well they need to think again. Their "plan" is beyond asinine.

Posted: 8/21/2008 2:01:36 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm sure this has been gone over, but if I were the murder, I'd replace the barrel and show up for the testing.

the barrel is serialized with the same number that is on the slide and frame. I imagine that if you showed up with a mismatched barrel, you'd have some explaining to do. Especially if you fit the description of the actual killer.

IIRC, the description is "I think they might have been in a truck".

Without doing any research, I am thinking there could be a few trucks in OK.

There was a sketch of a person of interest in the papers after it happened. Maybe they have ruled that person out. I havn't been following the case.

Posted: 8/21/2008 2:02:00 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
I too was shocked when I read about this in the Tulsa paper, and I'm certainly not condoning what OSBI has done, please look at it from LEO's view...

This heinous crime has shocked the hell out of all of us here in OK. These were two innocent children gunned down not far from one of their houses. They were found just a short time after it happened.

LEO has NO solid leads on any of it at this time, at least none that they are talking about. This was an act of desperation.

I have known Sheriff Jack Choate's family for a long time and they are good, solid people. Jack was a State Trooper for almost 40 years before he retired, and then he got "drafted" by the citizens of the county to serve as their sheriff even though he'd have rather stayed home and played with his grandkids. He's still one of the best cops that this state has ever seen and we have a long list of famous lawmen here.

And then the crime of the century gets dumped in your lap.

My prayers go out to both families and every single LEO who has worked on this case. These people have cried more tears than I could imagine, and that counts for the cops too.

Yes, the act proved that there IS INDEED gun registration, for the want of a better term, but these people acted out of what they could think to do to catch the monsters that murdered those kids...

I am often called a JBT sympathizer here, and very often come down on the side of the cops, but the nicest thing I can say to you about this is

Posted: 8/21/2008 2:13:27 PM EDT

[#14]

Wow. What a fishing expedition.

Did the OSBI bother to wonder about other makes of handguns chambered for the same cartridge? What if it's a 10mm firearm?

Posted: 8/21/2008 2:20:40 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I too was shocked when I read about this in the Tulsa paper, and I'm certainly not condoning what OSBI has done, please look at it from LEO's view...

This heinous crime has shocked the hell out of all of us here in OK. These were two innocent children gunned down not far from one of their houses. They were found just a short time after it happened.

LEO has NO solid leads on any of it at this time, at least none that they are talking about. This was an act of desperation.

I have known Sheriff Jack Choate's family for a long time and they are good, solid people. Jack was a State Trooper for almost 40 years before he retired, and then he got "drafted" by the citizens of the county to serve as their sheriff even though he'd have rather stayed home and played with his grandkids. He's still one of the best cops that this state has ever seen and we have a long list of famous lawmen here.

And then the crime of the century gets dumped in your lap.

My prayers go out to both families and every single LEO who has worked on this case. These people have cried more tears than I could imagine, and that counts for the cops too.

Yes, the act proved that there IS INDEED gun registration, for the want of a better term, but these people acted out of what they could think to do to catch the monsters that murdered those kids...

I am often called a JBT sympathizer here, and very often come down on the side of the cops, but the nicest thing I can say to you about this is

Yep, the ends do not justify the means.

Posted: 8/21/2008 2:35:03 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
On a further note, how do they know it was a Glock?

The rifling of a glock is different than basically everything else.

Normal on left, glock on right.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Polygonal_vs_normal_rifling.gif

HKs use polygonal rifling too though. Is there a difference between them?

From what I remember, HK's twist either has a different # of grooves or spins the opposite way as a Glock

Posted: 8/21/2008 3:30:02 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

<phone dialing sounds:>

<cop>hello
<me> Hi. Don't have the Glock anymore sorry.
<cop> Who did you sell it to?
<me> Didn't sell it. Went fishing in Alaska and we were short on downrigger weights. I put it on the end of the line, and got a hit from what must've been a 400 pound halibut. Snapped the line clean.
<cop> ...so what do I put on my paperwork here?
<me> "Boating accident".
<cop> ...er, thanks.
<me> Also, you guys need to be on the lookout for a 400 pound halibut armed with a Glock .40. (click)

Fixt.

+

Posted: 8/21/2008 3:39:04 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I too was shocked when I read about this in the Tulsa paper, and I'm certainly not condoning what OSBI has done, please look at it from LEO's view...

This heinous crime has shocked the hell out of all of us here in OK. These were two innocent children gunned down not far from one of their houses. They were found just a short time after it happened.

LEO has NO solid leads on any of it at this time, at least none that they are talking about. This was an act of desperation.

I have known Sheriff Jack Choate's family for a long time and they are good, solid people. Jack was a State Trooper for almost 40 years before he retired, and then he got "drafted" by the citizens of the county to serve as their sheriff even though he'd have rather stayed home and played with his grandkids. He's still one of the best cops that this state has ever seen and we have a long list of famous lawmen here.

And then the crime of the century gets dumped in your lap.

My prayers go out to both families and every single LEO who has worked on this case. These people have cried more tears than I could imagine, and that counts for the cops too.

Yes, the act proved that there IS INDEED gun registration, for the want of a better term, but these people acted out of what they could think to do to catch the monsters that murdered those kids...

I sympathize with the sheriff but, in times like these, great men need to be the voice of reason.

Posted: 8/21/2008 3:40:30 PM EDT

[#19]

WTF do they honestly expect this do achieve anything? Somehow I doubt the killer is going to bring his gun in to be tested...

Posted: 8/21/2008 3:41:32 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
What would they do if this were a rape?

ask all (illegally registered) owners of penises to bring them on down the station so
a fluffer can "fire off a round" for DNA testing?

Seriously... If they wouldn't do it to ALL MEN for a rape, why do it to all Glock .40 owners
when they're not supposed to have the "list" to begin with?

Actually your senerio HAS happened.. Can Someone please search for the details.

Roy

Posted: 8/21/2008 3:46:37 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What would they do if this were a rape?

ask all (illegally registered) owners of penises to bring them on down the station so
a fluffer can "fire off a round" for DNA testing?

Seriously... If they wouldn't do it to ALL MEN for a rape, why do it to all Glock .40 owners
when they're not supposed to have the "list" to begin with?

Actually your senerio HAS happened.. Can Someone please search for the details.

Roy

You are correct... they were stopping white males at checkpoints and asking for volunteers. It was in the NE area, IIRC.

I am not so sure these would be entered into a national database. There should be a local system in place that runs the comparison. Of course, the database gives a percentage and each one must then be analyzed by a person.

Small town and minimal comparisons could be done quicker by hand. By the time you set it up to scan, you could have already compared the markings.

Posted: 8/21/2008 3:49:50 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
WTF do they honestly expect this do achieve anything?

At the least it might save them their jobs, so the sheeple won't vote them out next election for not doing something "for the children".

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:14:24 PM EDT

[#23]

The problem with not going along with the program is when the investigators have little to go on they may start hounding you. Like going to your house, place of employment, releasing the name to the paper, etc. A few years ago there was a serial killer in Louisiana named Derrick Todd Lee that murdered many women and left behind his DNA. When the investigators ran out of clues they got desprate because the pressure was on. They put together a list of people who they wanted to DNA test (from prior sex offenders or where ever). All those who didn't go along with the program were made know and their life became a living hell.

If I had a gock 40 cal I still wouldn't give it up even with a warrent unless they got to it before it was lost in the boat accident. I don't trust anyone.

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:23:59 PM EDT

[#24]

"They can have any number of reasons" for not volunteering, Brown said. "They could be against it, they could be anti-government, or they eventually may want to help."

anti government

more like pro Constitution and the principles and spirit of the 4th Amendment

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:46:28 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm sure this has been gone over, but if I were the murder, I'd replace the barrel and show up for the testing.

the barrel is serialized with the same number that is on the slide and frame. I imagine that if you showed up with a mismatched barrel, you'd have some explaining to do. Especially if you fit the description of the actual killer.

only if they have proof it was sold with a matching barrel
put a performance after market barrel in it and say it came that way

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:50:42 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
No, I wouldn't turn mine in. If asked, I would simply refuse to answer questions. If pressured, I'd lie and say that I didn't own a Glock. Then I would seriously consider leaving the state.

Never ever lie to LEO in the course of an investigation, refuse to answer, cite the 5th Amendment, whatever, but never lie. If you get caught lying, you are toast.

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:51:53 PM EDT

[#27]

Saddens me that this kind of shit happens in Oklahoma.

Come back with a warrant bitches!

ETA!

Quoted:
I really need one of these door mats.

farm1.static.flickr.com/10/12900762_b073ef07e7_o.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/High-Cotton-Come-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:55:17 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I too was shocked when I read about this in the Tulsa paper, and I'm certainly not condoning what OSBI has done, please look at it from LEO's view...

This heinous crime has shocked the hell out of all of us here in OK. These were two innocent children gunned down not far from one of their houses. They were found just a short time after it happened.

LEO has NO solid leads on any of it at this time, at least none that they are talking about. This was an act of desperation.

I have known Sheriff Jack Choate's family for a long time and they are good, solid people. Jack was a State Trooper for almost 40 years before he retired, and then he got "drafted" by the citizens of the county to serve as their sheriff even though he'd have rather stayed home and played with his grandkids. He's still one of the best cops that this state has ever seen and we have a long list of famous lawmen here.

And then the crime of the century gets dumped in your lap.

My prayers go out to both families and every single LEO who has worked on this case. These people have cried more tears than I could imagine, and that counts for the cops too.

Yes, the act proved that there IS INDEED gun registration, for the want of a better term, but these people acted out of what they could think to do to catch the monsters that murdered those kids...

Nice but so what?

Our ex sheriff is now the county prosc. atty and he sucks at it. Hopefully he does not get re elected.

If tossing the net far and wide is all you have, and all you are going to catch is the innocent, [and thats all he will do] then you need a better plan.

Personally, as much as I feel sorry for the girls and their family, the sheriff can kiss my innocent firearm owning ass, TWICE.

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:57:12 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am pretty damn sure that the guy who did it will not be voluntarily showing up.

That's the point.

Say 100 people own .40 caliber Glocks.

75 are tested and come back negative.

You now have a pool of 25 people to investigate further. Obviously they have something to hide.

Av.

That's called good investigation. Do you want them to just not investigate the murders?

FUCK THAT NOISE

If you don't volunteer then they come MAKE you volunteer? Illegal search and seizure

Posted: 8/21/2008 4:57:22 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
No, I wouldn't turn mine in. If asked, I would simply refuse to answer questions. If pressured, I'd lie and say that I didn't own a Glock. Then I would seriously consider leaving the state.

Never ever lie to LEO in the course of an investigation, refuse to answer, cite the 5th Amendment, whatever, but never lie. If you get caught lying, you are toast.

Yup.

Only words out of your mouth should be, "Am I free to go? If not, I would like to call my attorney."

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:01:47 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
I too was shocked when I read about this in the Tulsa paper, and I'm certainly not condoning what OSBI has done, please look at it from LEO's view...

This heinous crime has shocked the hell out of all of us here in OK. These were two innocent children gunned down not far from one of their houses. They were found just a short time after it happened.

LEO has NO solid leads on any of it at this time, at least none that they are talking about. This was an act of desperation.

I have known Sheriff Jack Choate's family for a long time and they are good, solid people. Jack was a State Trooper for almost 40 years before he retired, and then he got "drafted" by the citizens of the county to serve as their sheriff even though he'd have rather stayed home and played with his grandkids. He's still one of the best cops that this state has ever seen and we have a long list of famous lawmen here.

And then the crime of the century gets dumped in your lap.

My prayers go out to both families and every single LEO who has worked on this case. These people have cried more tears than I could imagine, and that counts for the cops too.

Yes, the act proved that there IS INDEED gun registration, for the want of a better term, but these people acted out of what they could think to do to catch the monsters that murdered those kids...

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

How many more "voluntary tests" will there be before they want to take your gun, and promise to return it to you "as soon as possible"? And you can't refuse, because now there's a history of good, law-abiding people voluntarily complying. Now you don't want to comply. Why not? What do you have to hide? Do you not care about the children? We're going to have to take a much closer look at you now. And, here's proof that we don't need any more people owning such dangerous weapons... we need to restrict handguns that are "too large", "too small", "too powerful", or "too deadly". And ones that hold "too many" bullets, or that have been glorified by gangsters, or that are designed to maim.

Slippery slope. Best way to avoid sliding down is to not get near it in the first place.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:03:00 PM EDT

[#32]

Crying that this will "catch these monsters" that killed the kids is bull

Money bets the murderers are CAREER criminals. they have been in jail, maybe for violent offenses.

If so, WHY ARE THEY OUT?

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:06:03 PM EDT

[#33]

The stock answer should be "get a warrant or get fucked".

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:12:51 PM EDT

[#34]

height=8

Quoted:
I really need one of these door mats.

farm1.static.flickr.com/10/12900762_b073ef07e7_o.jpg

Target: $17.99

www.target.com/Come-Back-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572

Gotta love the internet.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:13:49 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
I really need one of these door mats.

That is fucking awesome.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:23:54 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
The problem with not going along with the program is when the investigators have little to go on they may start hounding you. Like going to your house, place of employment, releasing the name to the paper, etc. A few years ago there was a serial killer in Louisiana named Derrick Todd Lee that murdered many women and left behind his DNA. When the investigators ran out of clues they got desprate because the pressure was on. They put together a list of people who they wanted to DNA test (from prior sex offenders or where ever). All those who didn't go along with the program were made know and their life became a living hell.

You know, there are lawyers that lay awake at night, beating off at the thought of scenarios like that.

If they fuck with someone like that, they BETTER be damn sure they have the right guy. Because if they don't, they will get to make the one they fucked with (and their lawyers) very rich.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:26:15 PM EDT

[#37]

I can't wade through 12 pages of "get a warrant".
I am all for privacy and gun ownership more then most.
But if giving a sample of my G22 ballistics in any way helps get the creep that killed these kids, so be it. I have nothing to hide. Then they can rule me out.
I have no plan on committing a crime in the future.

Who ever did this needs to be exterminated. Just that simple.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:27:09 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
On a further note, how do they know it was a Glock?

the way the striker and extactor makes the primer and case upon firing and extraction.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:28:19 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Crying that this will "catch these monsters" that killed the kids is bull

Money bets the murderers are CAREER criminals. they have been in jail, maybe for violent offenses.

If so, WHY ARE THEY OUT?

I think it someone they knew, or at least they knew one of the girls. Probably a thug type late teen or early twenty year old.

They were trying to scare the girls, a gun went off, and they felt they had to finish both of them.

First time I saw this on the news I thought that, and haven't heard anything to change my opinion yet.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:31:19 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
I can't wade through 12 pages of "get a warrant".
I am all for privacy and gun ownership more then most.
But if giving a sample of my G22 ballistics in any way helps get the creep that killed these kids, so be it. I have nothing to hide. Then they can rule me out.
I have no plan on committing a crime in the future.

Who ever did this needs to be exterminated. Just that simple.

Then I hope you have given your DNA, fingerprints, hair samples, etc. to your local, state, and federal investigative agencies so they can go ahead and rule you out as a suspect in any open, or any future, case.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:42:49 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
On a further note, how do they know it was a Glock?

The rifling of a glock is different than basically everything else.

Normal on left, glock on right.

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Polygonal_vs_normal_rifling.gif

You can also tell by the firing pin indentation on the case.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:46:44 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I don't think the point is that they think the killer is going to come forward.

I think the point is that there might be an innocent person who recently bought a gun from a pawn shop that might have been the murder weapon.

If they can find that weapon, then find the pawn shop it was sold through, they can find out who the original owner (i.e., the killer) was, from the store records.

Not saying I agree with this method. Just saying I believe that is their rationale.

Or dad might have left his Glock available to 19 year old son who is an idiot asshole.

Said son takes Glock and commits a double murder.

Dad thinking his Glock in no way was involved taks it in and it is a match.
Just a little more investigation results in an arrest and conviction of asshole son.

Good police work actually. It very well could pay off and is a pretty good use of police time. Especially if it pans out.

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:47:06 PM EDT

[#43]

I never got a letter

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:49:09 PM EDT

[#44]

So would neglecting to "volunteer" be grounds for a warrant based upon "suspicion"?

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:49:55 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I never got a letter

There hasn't been an unmarked van parked across the street lately, has there?

Posted: 8/21/2008 5:54:38 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I never got a letter

There hasn't been an unmarked van parked across the street lately, has there?

I was wondering where the donut smell was coming from

Posted: 8/21/2008 6:00:37 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
So would neglecting to "volunteer" be grounds for a warrant based upon "suspicion"?

Not a chance.... but GD seems to think so.

Posted: 8/21/2008 6:01:19 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
The stock answer should be "get a warrant or get fucked".

page 1

Quoted:
get a warrant, until then, get fucked

Posted: 8/21/2008 6:04:15 PM EDT

[#49]

damn these oakie PD sure are retards...

Posted: 8/21/2008 6:05:51 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So would neglecting to "volunteer" be grounds for a warrant based upon "suspicion"?

Not a chance.... but GD seems to think so.

Uh, read all the thread.

I would say about two people, maybe three, have that opinion.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - 2 girls dead....State sends letter to .40 Glock owners..do you let yours get tested? Letter pg 6 (Page 6 of 9)

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