Jesus will take care of them commie bastards

BEIJING —  A group of American Christians who had more than 300 Bibles confiscated by Chinese officials when they arrived in China is refusing to leave the airport until they get the books back, their leader said Monday.

Pat Klein said he and three others from his Vision Beyond Borders group spent Sunday night at the airport in the southwestern city of Kunming after customs officers took the Bibles from their checked luggage.

"I heard that there's freedom of religion in China, so why is there a problem for us to bring Bibles?" said Klein, whose Sheridan, Wyoming-based group distributes Bibles and Christian teaching materials around the world.

The Bibles were printed in Chinese, he told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.

The move comes as China hosts the Olympics in Beijing, where false media reports last year claimed Bibles would be banned from the games. The state-run China Daily reported last month that 10,000 bilingual copies of the Bible would be distributed in the Olympic Village, which houses athletes and media.

In China, Bibles are legally printed at just one plant — the world's largest — run by a communist government-backed Christian association, and are available in many bookstores. But the officially atheistic government prohibits proselytizing and is worried that if the spread of religion goes unchecked, believers might ultimately challenge the Communist Party's authority.

A woman on duty at Kunming airport's customs office confirmed over the telephone late Sunday that 315 Bibles were found in the passengers' checked baggage.

The officer, who would only give her last name, Xiao, denied confiscating the Bibles. She said authorities were just "taking care" of them and provided no further details. She later said she was not authorized to speak to the media and referred questions to the national customs headquarters in Beijing, which did not answer phones on Sunday.

On Monday morning, Klein said Chinese officials had shown the group what they said were regulations that banned bringing Bibles into China, but that the documents were in Chinese. "We are waiting for them to come back with the law in English," he said.

Chinese officials had asked the Christians to leave the room at the airport where they spent the night, but Klein told the officials they did not want to go without the Bibles.

Klein said the customs officers had told him that they could each have one Bible for personal use, but no more than that. He said the officers had videotaped them and were insisting that they leave the airport.

"We don't want to go without taking those books. It cost us a lot of money to bring them here," Klein said. "They're saying that it's illegal to bring the Bibles in and that if we wanted to, we had to apply ahead of time for permission."

China faces routine criticism for human rights violations and repression of religious freedom. Religious practice is heavily regulated by the Communist Party, with worship allowed only in party-controlled churches, temples and mosques, while those gathering outside risk harassment, arrest and terms in labor camps or prison.

A Chinese Christian activist was detained Aug. 10, the opening weekend of the Olympics, on his way to a church service attended by U.S. President George W. Bush in Beijing. A rights group said later that the activist, Hua Huiqi, a leader of the unofficial Protestant church in Beijing, had escaped from police and was in hiding.

Police have denied any involvement in Hua's disappearance.

Your surprised?

Damn *** Edited out. Don't use racially derogatory terms like that, please... ~ JW777

I'm amazed that so many people have failed to understand that hosting the Olympics has not turned China into a free country. All of the repressive laws are still in place.

If their beleifs really had changed then they wouldn't be stealing bibles. Still the same old communist, just they have use for money.

Worthless Communist scum.  I'm not Christian, and even I am offended that these people felt the need to confiscate Bibles...  

Quoted: If their beleifs really had changed then they wouldn't be stealing bibles. Still the same old communist, just they have use for money.

Have they ever even pretended that their beliefs have changed?

They found a way to exploit capitalism in order to keep their communist state from collapsing like the rest of them.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't kid yourself into believing that they are any less of a repressive communist country just because you can buy their stuff at Walmart.

Their country, their rules.   Until the rules change that's how it is.

So they confiscated evidence of intent to commit crimes?

Good to know.

Bibles aren't banned in China.   There are no victims in this story.

they were trying to stir the pot, and got what they were looking for a "media event"

Quoted: Quoted: While such a law is obviously reprehensible, it doesn't really seem hard to understand. The law is beyond idiotic and my denomination (along with many others) is actively working to smuggle Bibles into China. That being said, we *are* smuggling stuff and that means that occasionally stuff is going to get caught and confiscated. Such is life. You write it off and buy more Bibles. Making a big public scene over isn't going to do anything but make the Chinacom govt. worse... like locking up the smugglers or taking a chunk out of the hide of the churches and Christians in China.

I thought the CoC prevented the membership here from picking and choosing which laws to obey and which to publicly advertise their criminal intent and actions?  Is talking about deliberately committing criminal acts in China acceptable conversation?  Are we only allowed to not talk about committing crimes in our own country?  

I need some clarification on this issue, Moderator.

Can I talk about shipping SKS rifles to London, in violation of their laws, and not be called down for it?  

Quoted: I'm amazed that so many people have failed to understand that hosting the Olympics has not turned China into a free country. All of the repressive laws are still in place.

All you see from the media is how wonderful it is.

Too many idiots believe that China is a wonderful place, why, look how nice the olympics are.


These morons are allowed to vote as well.

TXL

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: While such a law is obviously reprehensible, it doesn't really seem hard to understand. The law is beyond idiotic and my denomination (along with many others) is actively working to smuggle Bibles into China. That being said, we *are* smuggling stuff and that means that occasionally stuff is going to get caught and confiscated. Such is life. You write it off and buy more Bibles. Making a big public scene over isn't going to do anything but make the Chinacom govt. worse... like locking up the smugglers or taking a chunk out of the hide of the churches and Christians in China. I thought the CoC prevented the membership here from picking and choosing which laws to obey and which to publicly advertise their criminal intent and actions?  Is talking about deliberately committing criminal acts in China acceptable conversation?  Are we only allowed to not talk about committing crimes in our own country?   I need some clarification on this issue, Moderator. Can I talk about shipping SKS rifles to London, in violation of their laws, and not be called down for it?

Exporting SKSs to London violates our laws as well as theirs.

Exporting Bibles does not violate American law. We, as Americans, do things all the time that are legal here and illegal in other countries.  

Quoted: Until you have a ruling from them I strongly suggest that you don't post anything else about it in this thread or any other.

WTF?

He seems to have a legitimate question and that is your response?

Is that the official ARFCOM position?

That response seems very "Chinese" to me.

I still don't understand why communist regimes discourage Christianity.

Christians tend to be law-abiding and the Bible itself instructs abiding by the laws where you live.


Is it because the cult of personality many autocrats seek has no room for worship of anyone but themselves?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: While such a law is obviously reprehensible, it doesn't really seem hard to understand. The law is beyond idiotic and my denomination (along with many others) is actively working to smuggle Bibles into China. That being said, we *are* smuggling stuff and that means that occasionally stuff is going to get caught and confiscated. Such is life. You write it off and buy more Bibles. Making a big public scene over isn't going to do anything but make the Chinacom govt. worse... like locking up the smugglers or taking a chunk out of the hide of the churches and Christians in China. I thought the CoC prevented the membership here from picking and choosing which laws to obey and which to publicly advertise their criminal intent and actions?  Is talking about deliberately committing criminal acts in China acceptable conversation?  Are we only allowed to not talk about committing crimes in our own country?   I need some clarification on this issue, Moderator. Can I talk about shipping SKS rifles to London, in violation of their laws, and not be called down for it?   Exporting SKSs to London violates our laws as well as theirs. Exporting Bibles does not violate American law. We, as Americans, do things all the time that are legal here and illegal in other countries.

Oh, so it's more like Neo Nazi websites being set up via mirror sites to be accessible in Germany and David Duke and other guys smuggling Nazi books and videos into Germany, in violation of their laws, but perfectly acceptable in the USA.

Well, I guess Freedom of Speech is more important than any law that restricts it.

Quoted: Quoted: Until you have a ruling from them I strongly suggest that you don't post anything else about it in this thread or any other. WTF? He seems to have a legitimate question and that is your response? Is that the official ARFCOM position? That response seems very "Chinese" to me.

I'd never sell a gun to anyone, as I want to own them all, so it was a rhetorical question.  I just wanted to know what crimes are okay to talk about and which aren't.

Did they have an import licence?

Shane

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: While such a law is obviously reprehensible, it doesn't really seem hard to understand. The law is beyond idiotic and my denomination (along with many others) is actively working to smuggle Bibles into China. That being said, we *are* smuggling stuff and that means that occasionally stuff is going to get caught and confiscated. Such is life. You write it off and buy more Bibles. Making a big public scene over isn't going to do anything but make the Chinacom govt. worse... like locking up the smugglers or taking a chunk out of the hide of the churches and Christians in China. I thought the CoC prevented the membership here from picking and choosing which laws to obey and which to publicly advertise their criminal intent and actions?  Is talking about deliberately committing criminal acts in China acceptable conversation?  Are we only allowed to not talk about committing crimes in our own country?   I need some clarification on this issue, Moderator. Can I talk about shipping SKS rifles to London, in violation of their laws, and not be called down for it?   Exporting SKSs to London violates our laws as well as theirs. Exporting Bibles does not violate American law. We, as Americans, do things all the time that are legal here and illegal in other countries.   Oh, so it's more like Neo Nazi websites being set up via mirror sites to be accessible in Germany and David Duke and other guys smuggling Nazi books and videos into Germany, in violation of their laws, but perfectly acceptable in the USA. Well, I guess Freedom of Speech is more important than any law that restricts it.

I suppose it is exactly like that.

As despicable as I find the Neo-Nazis to be, they are not violating American laws when they export their filth to Germany.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Until you have a ruling from them I strongly suggest that you don't post anything else about it in this thread or any other. WTF? He seems to have a legitimate question and that is your response? Is that the official ARFCOM position? That response seems very "Chinese" to me. I'd never sell a gun to anyone, as I want to own them all, so it was a rhetorical question.  I just wanted to know what crimes are okay to talk about and which aren't.

I understood exactly what you meant.

My suggestion about this would be to not post about smuggling ANYTHING.

Quoted: Did they have an import licence? Shane

Nope.

This reminds me of the pastor who brought a box of hunting ammo to Russia and ended up in prison (and was subsequently released).

If you keep pushing Chinese button, don't be surprised when you end up in Chinese prison.  Of the places I want to visit, a Chinese prison is pretty close to the bottom of the list.  

The U.S. has plenty of stupid laws too, but I'm not willing to test the boundaries of stupidity here either.

The risk/reward ratio is out of whack here, IMO.

Quoted: When you're smuggling Bibles and they catch the shipment, you simply let it go and work on the next shipment and be thankfull they are not in prison.

Fixed it for you...

When traveling to another country it would be wise to know their laws.. Same as that preacher in russia.. They are lucky they are not in jail as smugglers, if it was not for the olypics right now they probably would be... their country their rules.. Dont like it dont go there and dont buy their shit....

Quoted: Quoted: I'm amazed that so many people have failed to understand that hosting the Olympics has not turned China into a free country. All of the repressive laws are still in place. All you see from the media is how wonderful it is. Too many idiots believe that China is a wonderful place, why, look how nice the olympics are. These morons are allowed to vote as well. TXL

Sounds like history repeating itself (Berlin '36 Olympics).

But the officially atheistic government prohibits proselytizing and is worried that if the spread of religion goes unchecked, believers might ultimately challenge the Communist Party's authority.

   File this quote away for future reference.

Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right.

I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion.

Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion.

The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system.

I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear."

Quoted: ...my denomination (along with many others) is actively working to smuggle Bibles into China. That being said, we *are* smuggling stuff...

Personally, this warms my heart.

Good job to you and yours.

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion. The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system. I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear."

The U.S. would disagree with me? hewww.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Quoted: Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion. The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system. I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear."

The U.S. has no more right to interfere in their legal systems than they have to interfere in ours.

We aren't interested in what they think about what we do to their citizens when they violate our laws, so why should we try to do anything to meddle with their law enforcement?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion. The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system. I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear." The U.S. would disagree with me? WTF? The majority of my statement was copied and pasted directly from the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America. Check your facts www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

The U.S. government would disagree with the idea that you can freely violate the laws of other countries if they conflict with our laws and beliefs.

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion. The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system. I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear." The U.S. has no more right to interfere in their legal systems than they have to interfere in ours. We aren't interested in what they think about what we do to their citizens when they violate our laws, so why should we try to do anything to meddle with their law enforcement?

The United States, as a nation, was not meddling. People were. It is every person's responsibility to enforce unalienable rights. If you think that unalienable rights belong only to U.S. citizens, you are very mistaken. They are the rights of all people.

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion. The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system. I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear." The U.S. would disagree with me? hewww.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html The U.S. government would disagree with the idea that you can freely violate the laws of other countries if they conflict with our laws and beliefs.

Is that why we went ahead and obeyed England's laws and chose to not succeed from them because it was illegal based on English law?

ETA: Oh, that's right, we DID disobey english law because it contradicted what is good and right.

The youth pastor and his wife from our church are there now. Wonder how it's working out for them?

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Quoted: The youth pastor and his wife from our church are there now. Wonder how it's working out for them?

Your statement implies that it is okay to fail to enforce unalienable rights if someone might get hurt in the process. Is that what you meant?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion. The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system. I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear." The U.S. has no more right to interfere in their legal systems than they have to interfere in ours. We aren't interested in what they think about what we do to their citizens when they violate our laws, so why should we try to do anything to meddle with their law enforcement? The United States, as a nation, was not meddling. People were. It is every person's responsibility to enforce unalienable rights. If you think that unalienable rights belong only to U.S. citizens, you are very mistaken. They are the rights of all people.

Inalienable rights are theoretical at best.

It has been proven numerous times all over the globe that rights are not universal from a legal or practical standpoint.

Our rights as Americans were secured by the founders of this country and have been preserved by the generations that followed. The same cannot be said for the Chinese, which is why they DO NOT have an inalienable right to practice their religions as they see fit under the laws of their country.  

Quoted: It's not smart to play chicken in the media with China over those Bibles. You run the risk of endangering the underground churches and Christians there. Write them off and move on.

+1 Yep.

Besides, there might be curious commie workers who decide to "borrow" one or two of those confiscated Bibles to read themselves and possibly distribute them secretly to others. Just let them go, man, and don't be a hypocrite whining about how much money they cost...!

I dont feel sorry for them.  It looks like they got the headline they were looking for.  China's official athiesm is the only thing I like about their country.  I hate prosthelytizing but realize that in America due to free speech it (unfortunately) would be unconstitutional to ban it.

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Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: height=8 Quoted: Freedom of religion is an unalienable right. People have a right to alter or to abolish any form of government becomes destructive of this right. I find it fair to ignore the laws of any government that has become destructive of the right to freedom of religion. The U.S. government will disagree with you.  Break foreign laws while in a foreign country and you will be subject to their (so-called) justice system. I'm not saying Chinese law is right, good, ethical, or moral.  But, it is what it is.  Don't be surprised if these people "disappear." The U.S. has no more right to interfere in their legal systems than they have to interfere in ours. We aren't interested in what they think about what we do to their citizens when they violate our laws, so why should we try to do anything to meddle with their law enforcement? The United States, as a nation, was not meddling. People were. It is every person's responsibility to enforce unalienable rights. If you think that unalienable rights belong only to U.S. citizens, you are very mistaken. They are the rights of all people. Inalienable rights are theoretical at best. It has been proven numerous times all over the globe that rights are not universal from a legal or practical standpoint. Our rights as Americans were secured by the founders of this country and have been preserved by the generations that followed. The same cannot be said for the Chinese, which is why they DO NOT have an inalienable right to practice their religions as they see fit under the laws of their country.

Epic Communist Fail if you think unalienable rights are theoretical at best.

You would give up freedom because it was not legal or practical? Also, cite your reference for impractical.

No country law can overturn unalienable rights. That's the whole concept of "unalienable."

Quoted: Jesus will take care of them commie bastards

One has to exist to be able to take care of anything. .....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: While such a law is obviously reprehensible, it doesn't really seem hard to understand. The law is beyond idiotic and my denomination (along with many others) is actively working to smuggle Bibles into China. That being said, we *are* smuggling stuff and that means that occasionally stuff is going to get caught and confiscated. Such is life. You write it off and buy more Bibles. Making a big public scene over isn't going to do anything but make the Chinacom govt. worse... like locking up the smugglers or taking a chunk out of the hide of the churches and Christians in China. I thought the CoC prevented the membership here from picking and choosing which laws to obey and which to publicly advertise their criminal intent and actions?  Is talking about deliberately committing criminal acts in China acceptable conversation?  Are we only allowed to not talk about committing crimes in our own country?   I need some clarification on this issue, Moderator. Can I talk about shipping SKS rifles to London, in violation of their laws, and not be called down for it?

Are you seriously saying that smuggling Bibles into a brutal, oppressive totalitarian state is the same as smuggling weapons into a london?

Quoted: I dont feel sorry for them.  It looks like they got the headline they were looking for.  China's official athiesm is the only thing I like about their country.  I hate prosthelytizing but realize that in America due to free speech it (unfortunately) would be unconstitutional to ban it.

yeah, it sucks when people have a different opinion than you do.  too bad you can't ban it

you should move to china