B-2 bomber that crashed on Guam - Caused by moisture confused sensors - update pg4

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - B-2 bomber that crashed on Guam - Caused by moisture confused sensors - update pg4 (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:39:26 PM EDT

B-2 crashed because moisture confused sensors

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Jun 5, 2008 17:41:22 EDT

The most expensive crash in Air Force history — the $1.4 billion loss of a B-2 Spirit bomber Feb. 23 — was caused by water clogging aircraft sensors, according to an Air Combat Command report issued Thursday.

Moisture in three of the 24 sensors that feed information into the bomber’s computer system caused the sensors to send bad information about the plane’s speed and altitude, and how far up or down the bomber’s nose was pointed.

As the jet took off from Andersen Air Force Base, Guam, the onboard computer thought the B-2 was pointed downward, causing the nose to jerk suddenly upward.

The two pilots couldn’t regain control of the bomber and as the left wing struck the runway, the pilots safely ejected.

Watch Air Force video
B-2 crash from surveillance camera

B-2 crash from ground camera

The investigation didn’t fault the performance of pilots Maj. Ryan Link and Capt. Justin Grieve, both assigned to the 509th Bomb Wing at Whiteman Air Force Base, Mo. The report also cleared maintainers of any missteps.

Maintainers were aware that high humidity on Guam could result in sensors clogging up with water but thought the sensor problems were solved prior to takeoff. Also, the pilots saw no avionics readings that would have led to aborting the takeoff.

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:43:26 PM EDT

[#1]

Video - Fuck me!!

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:45:14 PM EDT

[#2]

Wow. Those guys punched out just a second before disaster.

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:46:56 PM EDT

[#3]

Second video link is not working at the USAF server.

Accident report
www.acc.af.mil/accspecialreports/b-2accidentinvestigationboard.asp

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:47:01 PM EDT

[#4]

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:48:32 PM EDT

[#5]

Glad it wasn't carrying ordnance!!!

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:49:53 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Wow. Those guys punched out just a second before disaster.

Thats what I was thinking.

Looked like they almost saved it.

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:50:16 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Second video link is not working at the USAF server.

Accident report
www.acc.af.mil/accspecialreports/b-2accidentinvestigationboard.asp

It worked for me, just took a long timme to download.

Damn the crew was lucky to get out!

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:52:39 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Second video link is not working at the USAF server.

Accident report
www.acc.af.mil/accspecialreports/b-2accidentinvestigationboard.asp

The second video link is working for me.

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:55:12 PM EDT

[#9]

It's not working for me.
Must be the Verizon server.

Right click and save.

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:55:56 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

The two pilots couldn’t regain control of the bomber and as the left wing struck the runway, the pilots safely ejected.

Whew. After watching the first video, I was really hoping that was an eject I saw right before the fireball.

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:56:40 PM EDT

[#11]

Time to change your shorts.

Posted: 6/5/2008 11:57:12 PM EDT

[#12]

That's not gonna buff out.

Posted: 6/6/2008 12:01:07 AM EDT

[#13]

Damn! Glad they got out.

Posted: 6/6/2008 12:16:48 AM EDT

[#14]

The camera man in the 2nd video was awefull! Nice shot of the guy camo pants and ground.

Posted: 6/6/2008 12:17:02 AM EDT

[#15]

Skivvies check

Posted: 6/6/2008 12:17:07 AM EDT

[#16]

The most expensive bomber on the planet and the USAF didn't check 'Heated Glass and Mirrors' option on the dealer order?

Posted: 6/6/2008 12:17:16 AM EDT

[#17]

.

Posted: 6/6/2008 12:42:17 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
The most expensive bomber on the planet and the USAF didn't check 'Heated Glass and Mirrors' option on the dealer order?

Posted: 6/6/2008 12:56:32 AM EDT

[#19]

5 seconds longer on the hammerhead and the crew would have taken off as normal....5 seconds less and they wouldn't have had time to get out.....

Posted: 6/6/2008 1:23:30 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
The most expensive bomber on the planet and the USAF didn't check 'Heated Glass and Mirrors' option on the dealer order?

Can't get heated mirrors as part of the tow package.

Posted: 6/6/2008 3:26:17 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
The camera man in the 2nd video was awefull! Nice shot of the guy camo pants and ground.

Yeah. I keep thinking that there should be a law that prevents anyone from buying or
using a video camera until they can demonstrate that they're not a complete idiot about
how to use it. Stay focused on the subject, don't abuse the zoom, and if you're incapable
of providing a reasonably stable image, whether it's due to idiocy, palsy, or the yips brought
on by a bad dose of cappucino, GET A FREAKING TRIPOD, ALL RIGHT ALREADY????

The AF surveillance camera acted like it was automated, not controlled by a person.

CJ

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:14:56 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The camera man in the 2nd video was awefull! Nice shot of the guy camo pants and ground.

Yeah. I keep thinking that there should be a law that prevents anyone from buying or
using a video camera until they can demonstrate that they're not a complete idiot about
how to use it. Stay focused on the subject, don't abuse the zoom, and if you're incapable
of providing a reasonably stable image, whether it's due to idiocy, palsy, or the yips brought
on by a bad dose of cappucino, GET A FREAKING TRIPOD, ALL RIGHT ALREADY????

The AF surveillance camera acted like it was automated, not controlled by a person.

CJ

The surveillance cam was remotely operated by a security forces troop in the tower. I can't see what is posted but I hope the shaky vid doesn't have audio. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it is disturbing to hear....

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:19:45 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
The camera man in the 2nd video was awefull! Nice shot of the guy camo pants and ground.

Probably either in shock, or didn't want to catch the last few moments of pilot/copilot's lives on tape if they didn't eject in time.

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:21:22 AM EDT

[#24]

The surveillance cam was remotely operated by a security forces troop in the tower. I can't see what is posted but I hope the shaky vid doesn't have audio. If it's the one I'm thinking of, it is disturbing to hear....

OK, now I need to hear the audio

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:36:07 AM EDT

[#25]

ost

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:45:58 AM EDT

[#26]

Wow...that was far worse than I expected...I guess I never read the original article, because I was thinking it was a belly landing that went sour...didnt expect that kind of destruction...

ETA ownage of P.2

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:50:35 AM EDT

[#27]

First video looked a lot like a cell phone video.

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:52:11 AM EDT

[#28]

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:53:32 AM EDT

[#29]

Hmmm. Very jerky, unsteady camera work out in the field while seeing something that never had never happened before.

How many of you guys refused to believe the Patterson film is legit, again?

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:58:04 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
The camera man in the 2nd video was awefull! Nice shot of the guy camo pants and ground.

+1

Posted: 6/6/2008 4:58:53 AM EDT

[#31]

Damn

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:04:41 AM EDT

[#32]

ouch!

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:15:14 AM EDT

[#33]

Something as simple as moisture can show some erratic readings on Pitot/Static systems.

The more systems you run relying on it, the more disastrous it can potentially get, like in this case.

I've seen (and flown aircraft) with similar things happening.

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:15:56 AM EDT

[#34]

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:18:56 AM EDT

[#35]

It's never good to see that happen. Glad the aircrew got out and no one on the ground was hurt.

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:21:11 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Something as simple as moisture can show some erratic readings on Pitot/Static systems.

The more systems you run relying on it, the more disastrous it can potentially get, like in this case.

I've seen (and flown aircraft) with similar things happening.

Flush data ports add a whole nuther layer of complication, and when the airplane has no vertical stabilizing surfaces, the complication and need for dead nuts reliable pitot-static data increases another order of magnitude.

These airplanes rely on pitot-static data for side slip and angle of attach information, in addition to the usual stuff.

I'm a little surprised they had this problem, particularly after the airplanes have been fielded this long. But, it's a non-trivial installation to get right without a boat load of testing.

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:25:20 AM EDT

[#37]

Such a beautiful aircraft.

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:34:37 AM EDT

[#38]

Those takeoff crashes are really bad because the plane is full of fuel

The first vid won't work for me in Firefox, I had to use IE to get it to download.

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:37:38 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Something as simple as moisture can show some erratic readings on Pitot/Static systems.

The more systems you run relying on it, the more disastrous it can potentially get, like in this case.

I've seen (and flown aircraft) with similar things happening.

Flush data ports add a whole nuther layer of complication, and when the airplane has no vertical stabilizing surfaces, the complication and need for dead nuts reliable pitot-static data increases another order of magnitude.

These airplanes rely on pitot-static data for side slip and angle of attach information, in addition to the usual stuff.

I'm a little surprised they had this problem, particularly after the airplanes have been fielded this long. But, it's a non-trivial installation to get right without a boat load of testing.

Agreed.

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:41:28 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
First video looked a lot like a cell phone video.

all that jerky stop/start motion indicates a camera mounted on a pan/tilt head tripod with the drag adjustments turned up too high

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:49:43 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The most expensive bomber on the planet and the USAF didn't check 'Heated Glass and Mirrors' option on the dealer order?

Can't get heated mirrors as part of the tow package.

I got the tow package on my Cessna! Namapbanner.com

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:55:12 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
First video looked a lot like a cell phone video.

all that jerky stop/start motion indicates a camera mounted on a pan/tilt head tripod with the drag adjustments turned up too high

Ooops, I meant the second video

Posted: 6/6/2008 5:58:20 AM EDT

[#43]

both vids work fine for me in firefox

Posted: 6/6/2008 6:08:40 AM EDT

[#44]

I didn't realize it was that close of a call for the pilots

Posted: 6/6/2008 6:52:55 AM EDT

[#45]

Posted: 6/6/2008 6:54:08 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

I'm a little surprised they had this problem, particularly after the airplanes have been fielded this long. But, it's a non-trivial installation to get right without a boat load of testing.

Keep in mind that B-2s have only recently (2006) been deployed to Guam. Humidity and meager sheltering (compared to home station) was a contributor.

And the system does have heated sensors....

Posted: 6/6/2008 7:04:58 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm a little surprised they had this problem, particularly after the airplanes have been fielded this long. But, it's a non-trivial installation to get right without a boat load of testing.

Keep in mind that B-2s have only recently (2006) been deployed to Guam. Humidity and meager sheltering (compared to home station) was a contributor.

And the system does have heated sensors....

The summer time humidity in Missouri is similar to Guam. Right this instant it feels like we're swimming, I can hardly breathe.

Posted: 6/6/2008 7:08:43 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm a little surprised they had this problem, particularly after the airplanes have been fielded this long. But, it's a non-trivial installation to get right without a boat load of testing.

Keep in mind that B-2s have only recently (2006) been deployed to Guam. Humidity and meager sheltering (compared to home station) was a contributor.

And the system does have heated sensors....

The summer time humidity in Missouri is similar to Guam. Right this instant it feels like we're swimming, I can hardly breathe.

True, but the B-2s aren't sitting outside......

Posted: 6/6/2008 7:08:46 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm a little surprised they had this problem, particularly after the airplanes have been fielded this long. But, it's a non-trivial installation to get right without a boat load of testing.

Keep in mind that B-2s have only recently (2006) been deployed to Guam. Humidity and meager sheltering (compared to home station) was a contributor.

And the system does have heated sensors....

The summer time humidity in Missouri is similar to Guam. Right this instant it feels like we're swimming, I can hardly breathe.

True, but the B-2s aren't sitting outside......

Posted: 6/6/2008 7:10:16 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I'm a little surprised they had this problem, particularly after the airplanes have been fielded this long. But, it's a non-trivial installation to get right without a boat load of testing.

Keep in mind that B-2s have only recently (2006) been deployed to Guam. Humidity and meager sheltering (compared to home station) was a contributor.

And the system does have heated sensors....

The summer time humidity in Missouri is similar to Guam. Right this instant it feels like we're swimming, I can hardly breathe.

True, but the B-2s aren't sitting outside......

No one cares when they're sitting. It's flying that matters.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - B-2 bomber that crashed on Guam - Caused by moisture confused sensors - update pg4 (Page 1 of 3)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us