Wow, I though I would never see the day when I see a story like this in the San Francisco Chronicle.
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SFGate
Ammunition Shortage Squeezes Police

By ESTES THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer

Friday, August 17, 2007

(08-17) 11:33 PDT , (AP) --

Troops training for and fighting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are firing more than 1 billion bullets a year, contributing to ammunition shortages hitting police departments nationwide and preventing some officers from training with the weapons they carry on patrol.

An Associated Press review of dozens of police and sheriff's departments found that many are struggling with delays of as long as a year for both handgun and rifle ammunition. And the shortages are resulting in prices as much as double what departments were paying just a year ago.

"There were warehouses full of it. Now, that isn't the case," said Al Aden, police chief in Pierre, S.D.

Departments in all parts of the country reported delays or reductions in training and, in at least one case, a proposal to use paint-ball guns in firing drills as a way to conserve real ammo.

Forgoing proper, repetitive weapons training comes with a price on the streets, police say, in diminished accuracy, quickness on the draw and basic decision-making skills.

"You are not going to be as sharp or as good, especially if an emergency situation comes up," said Sgt. James MacGillis, range master for the Milwaukee police. "The better-trained officer is the one that is less likely to use force."

The pinch is blamed on a skyrocketing demand for ammunition that followed the start of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, driven by the training needs of a military at war, and, ironically, police departments raising their own practice regiments following the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The increasingly voracious demand for copper and lead overseas, especially in China, has also been a factor.

The military is in no danger of running out because it gets the overwhelming majority of its ammunition from a dedicated plant outside Kansas City. But police are at the mercy of commercial manufacturers.

None of the departments surveyed by the AP said they had pulled guns off the street, and many departments reported no problems buying ammunition. But others told the AP they face higher prices and months-long delays.

In Oklahoma City, for example, officers cannot qualify with AR-15 rifles because the department does not have enough .223-caliber ammunition — a round similar to that fired by the military's M-16 and M4 rifles. Last fall, an ammunition shortage forced the department to cancel qualification courses for several different guns.

"We've got to teach the officers how to use the weapon, and they've got to be able to go to the range and qualify with the weapon and show proficiency," said department spokesman Capt. Steve McCool. "And you can't do that unless you have the rounds."

In Milwaukee, supplies of .40-caliber handgun bullets and .223-caliber rifle rounds have gotten so low the department has repeatedly dipped into its ammunition reserves. Some weapons training has already been cut by 30 percent, and lessons on rifles have been altered to conserve bullets.

Unlike troops in an active war zone, patrol officers rarely fire their weapons in the line of duty. Even then, an officer in a firefight isn't likely to shoot more than a dozen rounds, said Asheville, N.C., police training officer Lt. Gary Gudac. That, he said, makes training with live ammunition for real-life situations — such as a vehicle stop — so essential.

"We spend a lot of money and time making sure the officers are able to shoot a moving target or shoot back into a vehicle," Gudac said. "Any time we have a deadly force encounter, one of the first things we pull is the officer's qualification records."

In Trenton, N.J., a lack of available ammunition led the city to give up plans to convert its force to .45-caliber handguns. Last year, the sheriff's department in Bergen County, N.J., had to borrow 26,000 rounds of .40-caliber ammunition to complete twice-a-year training for officers.

"Now we're planning at least a year and a half, even two years in advance," said Bergen County Detective David Macey, a firearms examiner.

In Phoenix, an order for .38-caliber rounds placed a year ago has yet to arrive, meaning no officer can currently qualify with a .38 Special revolver.

"We got creative in how we do in training," said Sgt. Bret Draughn, who supervises the department's ammunition purchases. "We had to cut out extra practice sessions. We cut back in certain areas so we don't have to cut out mandatory training."

In Wyoming, the state leaned on its ammunition suppler earlier this year so every state trooper could qualify on the standard-issue AR-15 rifle, said Capt. Bill Morse. Rifle rounds scheduled to arrive in January did not show up until May, leading to a rush of troopers trying to qualify by the deadline.

"We didn't (initially) have enough ammunition to qualify everybody in the state," Morse said.

In Indianapolis, police spokesman Lt. Jeff Duhamell said the department has enough ammunition for now, but is considering using paint balls during a two-week training course, during which recruits fire normally fire about 1,000 rounds each.

"It's all based on the demands in Iraq," Duhamell said. "A lot of the companies are trying to keep up with the demands of the war and the demands of training police departments. The price increased too — went up 15 to 20 percent — and they were advising us ... to order as much as you can."

Higher prices are common. In Madison, Wis., police Sgt. Lauri Schwartz said the city spent $40,000 on ammunition in 2004, a figure that rose to $53,000 this year. The department is budgeting for prices 22 percent higher in 2008. In Arkansas, Fort Smith police now pay twice as much as they did last year for 500-round cases of .40-caliber ammunition.

"We really don't have a lot of choices," Cpl. Mikeal Bates said. "In our profession, we have to have it."

The Lake City Army Ammunition Plant in Independence, Mo., directly supplies the military with more than 80 percent of its small-arms ammunition. Production at the factory has more than tripled since 2002, rising from roughly 425 million rounds that year to 1.4 billion rounds in 2006, according to the Joint Munitions Command at the Rock Island Arsenal in Illinois.

Most of the rest of the military's small-arms ammunition comes from Falls Church, Va.-based General Dynamics Corp., which relies partly on subcontractors — some of whom also supply police departments. Right now, their priority is filling the military's orders, said Darren Newsom, general manager of The Hunting Shack in Stevensville, Mont., which ships 250,000 rounds a day as it supplies ammunition to 3,000 police departments nationwide.

"There's just a major shortage on ammo in the U.S. right now," he said, pointing to his current backorder for 2.5 million rounds of .223-caliber ammunition. "It's just terrible."

Police say the .223-caliber rifle round is generally the hardest to find. Even though rounds used by the military are not exactly the same as those sold to police, they are made from the same metals and often using the same equipment.

Alliant Techsystems Inc., which runs the Lake City plant for the Army, also produced more than 5 billion rounds for hunting and police use last year, making the Edina, Minn.-based company the country's largest ammunition manufacturer. Spokesman Bryce Hallowell questioned whether the Iraq war had a direct effect on the ammunition available to police, but said there was no doubt that surging demand was affecting supply.

"We had looked at this and didn't know if it was an anomaly or a long-term trend," Hallowell said. "We started running plants 24/7. Now we think it is long-term, so we're going to build more production capability."

That unrelenting demand for ammunition will continue to put a premium on planning ahead, said Maricopa County, Ariz., Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who so far has kept his department from experiencing any shortage-related problems.

"If we have a problem, I'll go make an issue of it — if I have to go to Washington or the military," Arpaio said. "That is a serious thing ... if you don't have the firepower to protect the public and yourself."

___

Estes Thompson reported from Raleigh, N.C. Associated Press writers Sean Murphy in Oklahoma City; Robert Imrie in Wausau, Wis.; Joe Kafka in Pierre, S.D.; Rebecca Santana in Trenton, N.J.; Matt Gouras in Helena, Mont.; Robert Moen in Cheyenne, Wyo.; Jonathan Gambrell in Little Rock, Ark., Ryan Lenz in Evansville, Ind.; and Terry Tang in Phoenix contributed to this report.

sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/08/17/national/a113318D08.DTL

© 2007 Hearst Communications Inc.

Holy shit.  It really is Peak Ammo!

Its insane when the same ammo i bought for $179/1000 delivered a few years ago is now $400/1000 plus shipping.

They can try throwing rocks

Glad I stocked up between 1999 and 2002.

Hallowell said. "We started running plants 24/7. Now we think it is long-term, so we're going to build more production capability."
This is good news if they really are building more capacity.

Quoted: Glad I stocked up between 1999 and 2002.

Same here. I'm still shooting 2700rnd tubs of SA M1A3 i got at .11 cents a round delivered.

Down to my last 6,000 though. so i have some black hills on order i locked in at 2006 prices. $220/1000 delivered. Which is about $30.00 more a case than i would have liked to pay

I wonder how much ammo production capacity we had in this country 20/30/50 years ago versus today. Have anti-gun policies/laws affected our ability to produce? Or is this just a question of raw materials?

What we do if the badguys blew up Lake City?

Quoted: I wonder how much ammo production capacity we had in this country 20/30/50 years ago versus today. Have anti-gun policies/laws affected our ability to produce? Or is this just a question of raw materials?

I think much of it has to do with the suplus ammo situation and the expiration of the AW ban.

The sunset of the ban increased demand. The UN treaties banning surplus ammo trafficking decreased supply, leaving domestic & commercial production to pick up the slack.

Those people should thank the civilian sector for keep the ammo companies in business in between huge "go for broke" military contracts and occasional LE purchases.  Otherwise the Uncle Sam/Sugar would have to buy them from the PRC, now that would be ironic.  Order from  PRC and get it next year.

Quoted: What we do if the badguys blew up Lake City?

The .gov would call on every red blooded american with a Dillion to do their part for the war effort.

Oh Hell I'll bite.................It's all Bush's fault

Quoted: Quoted: What we do if the badguys blew up Lake City? The .gov would call on every red blooded american with a Dillion to do their part for the war effort.

I guess I'd better go ahead and order that 650.

From a thread on the DU:

xxxxxx  (1000+ posts)      Fri Aug-17-07 05:53 PM Response to Original message 2. Well, they could always ask the existing cops to turn in half of the bullets they carry in their belts! Surely the don't ever need THAT many anyway!

Quoted: From a thread on the DU: xxxxxx  (1000+ posts)      Fri Aug-17-07 05:53 PM Response to Original message 2. Well, they could always ask the existing cops to turn in half of the bullets they carry in their belts! Surely the don't ever need THAT many anyway!

Link?  I need a good laugh

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NY_AMMUNITION_SHORTAGE_UPSTATE_NYOL-?SITE=NYITH&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Aug 17, 3:15 PM EDT


Upstate NY departments, state police feel ammunition pinch

By MICHAEL VIRTANEN
Associated Press Writer
 

ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) -- While a national pinch on ammunition supplies due to heavy military demand has become an administrative headache for upstate New York police departments - and in some cases reduced firearms training - officials said it so far has had little affect on how they do their jobs.

"It has slowed down our ability to acquire ammunition, all kinds of ammunition," said New York State Police spokesman Lt. Glenn Miner. "We haven't experienced any shortages, but we're adjusting our reorder schedules."

For the 4,900-member State Police, the supply issues have not affected any operations or rifle range use, but orders are being placed farther in advance, Miner said. In terms of demand, he noted there are 437 police agencies in New York State alone, and the New York City Police Department is 10 times larger than the State Police.

In Syracuse, Sgt. Tom Rathbun said a delay in receiving .223 caliber ammunition held up training with some weapons earlier this summer.

"I ordered new patrol rifles, but I can't do anything with them because I only have about 500 rounds left, and that's going to be kept for a real need," Rathbun, who is in charge of weapon and ammunition procurement for the department, said in early August. It was a similar story for .45 caliber ammunition, he said.

"The SWAT team can't train like they should be because I'm rationing ammo," Rathbun said. "We recertifiy our 490 officers twice a year, but we won't be doing that if we can't get more .45 caliber ammo."

Usually, Rathbun has officers fire off 100 to 125 rounds for their recertification, but he has had to limit them to the mandated minimum of 50 rounds. He also stopped his practice of letting officers sign out 50 rounds to practice on their own.

However, an order placed in early July arrived last week, said Syracuse police Sgt. Shawn Smith, who added that he is now hearing from other local police agencies there could be delays of 12 to 18 months.

"The delays have been getting worse and worse, and that's really putting a strain on us. It used to be fairly quick. I'd get my ammunition in a month. The .45 caliber though is getting really behind, sometimes up to six months and getting worse," Smith said. It's also producing budgeting headaches for future fiscal years, he said.

The Syracuse department spends about $60,000 annually for 160,000 rounds of .45 caliber for training and 30,000 rounds for duty weapons; 25,000 rounds of 9mm; 30,000 rounds of .223 caliber; and 9,200 rounds of .308 Winchester ammunition, Smith said. They now place orders three times a year instead of twice, and on several occasions have borrowed from other departments until their order arrived.

While the 340-member Albany Police Department hasn't been affected "out in the street," the shooting range director is considering alternatives for firearms recertification, Detective James Miller said.

Quoted: Wow, I though I would never see the day when I see a story like this in the San Francisco Chronicle.

It is a story about how the war machine is hurting the locals. I'm not surprised at all about this being in the SF Chronicle.

This is why it should be mandated that 3 billion rounds per year be produced, no matter what.  They can just sell the surplus to us for cheap!


If there is one thing I don't mind my tax dollars going to, it's cheap ammo!

Forgoing proper, repetitive weapons training comes with a price on the streets, police say, in diminished accuracy, quickness on the draw and basic decision-making skills.

/wonders how long until someone makes a comment or reference to a cop they saw/know not being ablt to hit paper at less than 10 years



I really think I'm going to be voting for Covert8645.

The military is in no danger of running out because it gets the overwhelming majority of its ammunition from a dedicated plant outside Kansas City.

Aren't we secretive?

Quoted: Quoted: Wow, I though I would never see the day when I see a story like this in the San Francisco Chronicle. It is a story about how the war machine is hurting the locals. I'm not surprised at all about this being in the SF Chronicle.

It's just more of their leftwing, pacifist, bullshit wrapped in a article disguised as being concerned about the local gendarmes.

Page Two.

Hey low/no ammo PDs, Wally World sells ammo!!!! So do evil gunstores, so quitcherbitchin and start buying it. Look outside the bubble.