Quoted: This is the same guy that tried debating me on the history of Trek when he hadn't even watched ST:E. Also the same guy that still, after years on the board, hasn't learned how to correctly use quotation tags. Ignore him. EDIT: BTW, in case you still (INCORRECTLY) believe that there's only one Starfleet Academy: link

Translation: "I can't refute a single thing he's said, so I'm going to try to get people to ignore him in a vain attempt at claiming victory. Next, I'm going to go whack off in front of the mirror whilst contemplating this hollow victory."

Also, just because you're whiny and want me to seperate every fucking little line into multiple quotes for your convenience doesn't mean I can't correctly use quotation tags. Again, ad hominem AND strawman attack that you must resort to since you can't actually argue with anything I've said.

Everyone in this thread needs to chop off their hands with lightsabers so they cannot argue on the internet anymore.

Quoted: Translation: "I can't refute a single thing he's said, so I'm going to try to get people to ignore him in a vain attempt at claiming victory. Next, I'm going to go whack off in front of the mirror whilst contemplating this hollow victory."

Huh?

Are you honestly that unpersuasive? I don't care about your Star Wars conclusions, I don't follow it that much anyways. Your post simply brought back my memories of your complete and utter lack of knowledge with Star Trek and inarticulate post construction. That's all.


I also guess you happened to miss the link I posted. Then again, you probably don't remember saying that San Francisco's Starfleet Academy is the only Starfleet Academy. I can't blame you, you stated such misinformation in that other thread that you're probably still confused over the matter.

Also, just because you're whiny and want me to seperate every fucking little line into multiple quotes for your convenience doesn't mean I can't correctly use quotation tags.

For my convenience? Everyone else on the board has demonstrated the ability to use the feature correctly. Don't label it a "onvenience towards others" when you simply aren't able to demonstrate proper use of board code.

Again, ad hominem AND strawman attack that you must resort to

Translation: "I can't refute a single thing he's said, so I'm going to try to get people to ignore him in a vain attempt at claiming victory. Next, I'm going to go whack off in front of the mirror whilst contemplating this hollow victory."

You haven't got a leg to stand on.

Wow

didnt think Id say this in a ST or SW thread:

IBTL

and the bannings....

Quoted: Wow didnt think Id say this in a ST or SW thread: IBTL and the bannings....

the bad part is this isnt even a SW v ST thread, this is SW vs halo thread...

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow didnt think Id say this in a ST or SW thread: IBTL and the bannings.... the bad part is this isnt even a SW v ST thread, this is SW vs halo thread... Yeah, I love the totally random attack on my Star Trek knowledge (I grew up watching the fucking shows and movies and the only series I missed a lot of is Enterprise because I don't get that channel at college), despite the fact that this thread has absolutely nothing to do with Star Trek. I also love how he blithely skips over the fact that he can't argue against a single thing I said and proceeds to rant about my supposed lack of knowledge on totally unrelated topics. Incidentally, how many universities have seperate campuses? Does that mean that there's more than one of that university, or that they simply have a small secondary campus elsewhere? You'll notice that Mars, Venus, the asteroid belt, and San Francisco are in the same star system. As for the three locations for Starfleet Academy NOT in the Sol system, are they anything like the Academy installation that Wesley Crusher went to to take his exam to get into the Academy itself? If so, I'd hardly call that an Academy unto itself. Incidentally, there was only one Imperial Academy, located on Carida (before it got blown up by the Suncrusher). Of course, the Academy consisted of the entire planet, and naval training took place all over the Carida system, and trainees and cadets were sent all over the Empire for training in various conditions before returning to Carida to graduate. Billions of recruits being trained all over the galaxy- but only one centrally-located Academy. Just like Starfleet. Now, if you don't mind, let's try not to derail the thread, hmm?

ok, in an attempt to get back on track

I did a bit of research and have managed to correct my earlier mistake on covenant ship numbers, it turns out that I mis-remebered a quote from Halo 2. As far as the number of ISDs, I am going to quote this site and use its numbers.

The number of star destroyers in service is immense. The hull number of the star destroyer Entor (CVS 1049) indicates either that in excess of a thousand star destroyers of this class have been built, or that this is the 1049th built by its particular shipyard. According to the reports of Rebel Alliance historian Arhul Hextrophon (in The Imperial Sourcebook) the Galactic Empire has a about three to five dozen or so destroyers in an average sector group fleet, of which there is at least one for each of the Empire's thousands of sectors. This indicates that the local territorial fleets alone account for tens of thousands of star destroyers galaxy-wide. It should be noted that though Hextrophon's reports have proven to be error-prone on many occasions; they consistently tend towards gross underestimates of Imperial naval and military strengths. The true number of star destroyers is probably much greater than the values he implies. In addition to the vessels assigned to particular sectors, there must be uncounted numbers attached to Imperial High Command and elite roving forces such as those of some Grand Moffs, and higher officials such as Lord Darth Vader.

Now, i dont know where one might find accurate numbers on Covenant forces, however, I am of the opinion that unless there is an absolutely horrific disparaty in numbers, the covenant would have an advantage in space combat. Firstly, the Covenant Weapons are energy beams that travel at the speed of light, the Empire's weapons are based on what are essentially gauss guns firing packets of plasmified gasses, its rounds do not go the speed of light, and can therefore be evaded.

Earlier comments that refered to Proton Torpedos as directed nukes in the megaton range are not quite accurate. Yes, they are nukes, they may even be directed, but they are not megaton range nukes. They are used as air to air missiles in dogfights, and in surface engagements a single proton torpedo is enough to destroy a single warehouse. That the particular raid that I am thinking of was a precision strike against a bacta refinery that resulted in nearly zero civilian casualties and minimal collateral damage, and several proton torpedoes were launched against ground targets during this raid.

I feel that the weapons that SW uses are more powerful than those used by the Covenant. A Stortrooper's E11 carries enough charge for 100 rounds, and enough gas for 500 rounds. The max range of the weapon is 300 meters. All stortroopers are equiped with NBC sealed suits of armor, that can also withstand a vacuume. The standard issue thermal detonator for the Galacic Empire has a lethal radius of 5 meters, with more powerful ones with a lethal radius of 20 or even up to 100 meters. The only thing that the plasma grenade has over this is that it sticks to organic targets.

In battle, Imperial Forces are better coordinated, using secure comlinks to relay orders instead of open speech. Also, there seems to be more support between air and ground units. Stormtroopers are also indoctrinated early on to avoid retreat at all costs, something that grunts and jakals seem to have trouble with.

In the end, i will stick by the statement that i made earlier, in space, it would be a covenant victory, or a draw. On ground, it would be an easy Imperial victory

Quoted: ok, in an attempt to get back on track I did a bit of research and have managed to correct my earlier mistake on covenant ship numbers, it turns out that I mis-remebered a quote from Halo 2. As far as the number of ISDs, I am going to quote this site and use its numbers. The number of star destroyers in service is immense. The hull number of the star destroyer Entor (CVS 1049) indicates either that in excess of a thousand star destroyers of this class have been built, or that this is the 1049th built by its particular shipyard. According to the reports of Rebel Alliance historian Arhul Hextrophon (in The Imperial Sourcebook) the Galactic Empire has a about three to five dozen or so destroyers in an average sector group fleet, of which there is at least one for each of the Empire's thousands of sectors. This indicates that the local territorial fleets alone account for tens of thousands of star destroyers galaxy-wide. It should be noted that though Hextrophon's reports have proven to be error-prone on many occasions; they consistently tend towards gross underestimates of Imperial naval and military strengths. The true number of star destroyers is probably much greater than the values he implies. In addition to the vessels assigned to particular sectors, there must be uncounted numbers attached to Imperial High Command and elite roving forces such as those of some Grand Moffs, and higher officials such as Lord Darth Vader. Thank you for not derailing the thread further. The source you quoted is quite accurate, and written by Dr. Curt Saxon, who did quite a bit of work on higher canon sources such as the Star Wars Visual Dictionaries. If it's on his site, you can bet it's got a 99% chance of being accurate. Now, i dont know where one might find accurate numbers on Covenant forces, however, I am of the opinion that unless there is an absolutely horrific disparaty in numbers, the covenant would have an advantage in space combat. The Covenant armada can't even begin to match the Imperial Navy. We've already determined the Empire has tens of thousands of a single class of ship; they've got millions, if not billions, of capital ships. Over six million inhabited worlds spread all across a galaxy occupied by the single most militarized state in 25,000 years of galactic civilization? The Covenant don't possess many worlds; they're mostly nomadic, searching for more Forerunner artifacts to fulfill their death cult's tenants. They've glassed every human world they've encountered, and prior to their conquest and forced entry into the Covenant, each of the Convenant species (minus the Elites and Prophets, who initially formed it) had only a single world each. Given that we've never seen or heard of a Convenant planet (unless I missed something in the books), just their space stations like High Charity and the naval depot in First Strike, and a handful of outposts like the one destroyed in Ghosts of Onyx, we simply can't how many worlds the Convenant actually possess, if any at all. They certainly don't control the entire galaxy, or else crushing humanity would have taken them just long enough to decide what to have for lunch. I'd say the Covenant definitely have several thousand capital ships of various classes, but beyond that we really don't have enough information to speculate. Cortana said the fleet accompanying High Charity was the biggest she'd ever seen, but we don't know if it was the entirety of the Covenant armada or just their central fleet, or what. Firstly, the Covenant Weapons are energy beams that travel at the speed of light, the Empire's weapons are based on what are essentially gauss guns firing packets of plasmified gasses, its rounds do not go the speed of light, and can therefore be evaded. Ahem. Covenant weapons are dense plasma packets guided and formed by electromagnetic fields, much as you describe Imperial weapons to be (Imperial weapons operate on a similar principle, but have much different characteristics). They do NOT, as a rule, travel at the speed of light, and in fact you can see quite clearly in the game that neither Covenant capital ship weapons nor infantry weapons exhibit speeds anything close to the speed of light. In the books, the UNSC ships can sometimes evade Covenant plasma weapons or in the battle of Reach maneuver an object to intercept the plasma torpedoes so they don't hit the ships themselves. The only weapon demonstrating such velocity and any form of extreme range was a single vessel at the battle of Reach that fired some form of beam weapon that could slice up individual ships. While impressive, it should be noted that Imperial turbolasers have preferable ranges of several light minutes and maximum effective ranges of light hours (almost exclusively against large, stationary targets, but there are some rare exceptions). Note that Imperial ships prefer to exchange fire at long range, where the dagger profile of the ship allows nearly every gun to focus on a single target at the bow of the vessel. Up close, targeting isn't difficult except against fighters (and that's what they have point-defense weapons and their own fighters for anyway), but they can't focus as many guns on a single target at once. So, in terms of weapons speed and range, the Covenant are largely inferior to Imperial standards. As for whether or not Covenant ships could stand up to Imperial ships at all, that's easily answered- they cannot. Their plasma torpedoes, the most powerful weapons they've got on nearly every ship (and many of their capital ships aren't big enough to carry those, it's only cruisers and battleships that do), can do significant damage to a ship with no shields and armor made of titanium and steel, but they rarely if ever (I don't remember the books mentioning them destroying even a smaller ship outright, but I don't have them on hand to confirm that- my books are packed up in a box somewhere) destroy a UNSC vessel. A Star Destroyer has shields capable of withstanding a pitched battle with a vessel of equal firepower, and its heavy turbolasers have teraton firepower! It's armored hull is said to be of an ultra-dense material reinforced with neutronium. A single conventional nuke fired by a UNSC ship can knock out the shields on a Covenant battlecruiser, and a conventional railgun can knock holes in the unshielded ships. In a galaxy between 120,000 and 200,000 lightyears across that is inhabited by a unified civilization capable of crossing that distance in mere hours and with pan-galactic real-time communications (Holonet and hyperwave), kinetic weaponry is childishly easy to produce. Relativistic projectiles could beat the shit out of an inhabited world, with simple ball bearings producing damage equivelent to a tactical nuke. And yet the only kinetic weaponry in Star Wars is the slug-throwers (firearms) used by primitives like the Tuskens, or poison dart launchers used by assassins who don't want the energy from blast power packs to give them away on passive sensors. In a galaxy where kinetic weaponry would be so cheap, easy, and devestating, they're almost unheard of. This is probably because turbolasers and ion cannons provide firepower that no railgun, missile, or similar device could ever offer. I'm gonna say that, just like Federation ships, the Empire would squash entire Covenant fleets like bugs. Depending on the mood of the Imperial officer in question, he might wait for the Covenant ships to get bored and leave instead of returning fire. Earlier comments that refered to Proton Torpedos as directed nukes in the megaton range are not quite accurate. Yes, they are nukes, they may even be directed, but they are not megaton range nukes. They are used as air to air missiles in dogfights, and in surface engagements a single proton torpedo is enough to destroy a single warehouse. That the particular raid that I am thinking of was a precision strike against a bacta refinery that resulted in nearly zero civilian casualties and minimal collateral damage, and several proton torpedoes were launched against ground targets during this raid. I'm gonna refer you to this page on proton torpedoes for simplicity's sake. I feel that the weapons that SW uses are more powerful than those used by the Covenant. A Stortrooper's E11 carries enough charge for 100 rounds, and enough gas for 500 rounds. The 100 rounds is for firepower capable of penetrating light armor, such as that worn by stormtroopers. For unarmored humans, a lower power setting is sufficient, allowing the blaster to use more shots. We also know that blaster pistols can vaporize a human-sized lifeform (from the Tales From the New Republic book), but this obviously uses more power. And of course, stormtroopers carry plenty of spare power packs and gas cartridges into battle. The max range of the weapon is 300 meters. Which isn't bad for a carbine. I'd love to get some documentation on the range of their assault rifles, like the ones seen briefly in ANH and for a split second in ROTJ. All stortroopers are equiped with NBC sealed suits of armor, that can also withstand a vacuume. Only for twenty minutes though. As seen in ANH when the Falcon is tractored into the hangar bay, stormtroopers can wear air packs to allow them to stay in vacuum for extended periods, but specialized armor is needed for any dedicated space mission. The standard issue thermal detonator for the Galacic Empire has a lethal radius of 5 meters, with more powerful ones with a lethal radius of 20 or even up to 100 meters. The really big thermal detonators are usually fired like rifle grenades or from mortars. Can you imagine trying to throw one of those and then running away before it blows up? The only thing that the plasma grenade has over this is that it sticks to organic targets. Imperial proton grenades, seen in ROTJ when the rebels sabotage the shield generator, are magnetic. Imperials also have standard fragmentation grenades, nerve gas grenades, glop grenades (they shoot an incredibly thick, sticky substance everywhere, gluing things instantly on contact. Handy for taking a room full of prisoners alive, assuming they don't suffocate first.), incendiary grenades, cryoban grenades (useful more for putting out fires than as weapons, but they can have lethal effects), and a crapload of other grenades. In battle, Imperial Forces are better coordinated, using secure comlinks to relay orders instead of open speech. Reference the second level of the original Halo game, where Cortana notes that the Covenant are broadcasting on unencrypted channels. In addition to not being nearly as powerful as the Empire, the Covenant are also much, much stupider. Also, there seems to be more support between air and ground units. Stormtroopers are also indoctrinated early on to avoid retreat at all costs, something that grunts and jakals seem to have trouble with. That's the trouble with a conscript army of poorly-trained cannon fodder. The Covenant seem to follow old Soviet tactics of bullying the grunts (pun intended) into attacking in waves, rather than following any real tactics, strategy, etc. Any troops who disobey orders or flee the battle get threatened or killed by the officers, in this case, Brutes and Elites. Also, I'm going to point out that the Imperial Army would likely deal with the Covenant ground forces more than stormtroopers; stormtroopers are the Imperial equivelent of the marine corps. The Imperial Army doesn't get a lot of press, but they do make appearances (the AT-ST drivers in ROTJ, General Veers in TESB, several of the officers onboard the Death Star in ANH, etc.). In the end, i will stick by the statement that i made earlier, in space, it would be a covenant victory, or a draw. On ground, it would be an easy Imperial victory Easy Imperial victory anywhere, especially in space. Unless the Covenant recruit rabid teddy bears, in which case the Imperials will take off and nuke the site from orbit.

Quoted: BIG snip

well at least we are for the most part agreed on the outcome... even if we disagree on some of the technical specs of the tools used. Im still going to say that proton torps are no where even close to being as powerful as some books have said, using the mulitude of examples of a single xwing firing torps against both fighters, captial ships, and at least once against an ATST on Coruscant, and there not being massive collateral damage due to effects of a nuclear detonation.
Im also going to disagree with the given range and destructive power of the Empire's Capital ship weaponry. Now, if we are talking thermal energy and not physical energy, then i might not be arguing. But if you detonated a gigaton pile of TNT anywhere, the collateral damage that you will generate will be .... a lot. Consider Borleas and the fact that several vollies of turbolaser fire were used to bring down its shield and its facilites were still structurely sound after the engaugement, and you really cant accept that a gigaton of ordnance was detonated not only once but several hundred times.
As far as the range of the Turbolasers are concerned, light minutes? im hoping you realise just how far that is, one lightminute = 17 987 547.5 kilometers. i dont care how good your eyes are, you wont visually see the death star that far out, nor will it see you, and according to the movies, the battle took place well within visual range. Close enough in fact, for the Executor to be affected by the death star's gravity and crash into it.

technical descrepancies aside, the Empire wins, except that in the 4th game and 7th movie, Master Chief will learn that he has force powers and will go ape shit over both the Empire and the Covenant. So in the end, the Marines win

or if you wanted to, bring the Royal Manticorian Navy (Honor Harrington series) into the equation and all bets are off

Quoted: Quoted: BIG snip well at least we are for the most part agreed on the outcome... even if we disagree on some of the technical specs of the tools used. Im still going to say that proton torps are no where even close to being as powerful as some books have said, using the mulitude of examples of a single xwing firing torps against both fighters, captial ships, and at least once against an ATST on Coruscant, and there not being massive collateral damage due to effects of a nuclear detonation. Im also going to disagree with the given range and destructive power of the Empire's Capital ship weaponry. Now, if we are talking thermal energy and not physical energy, then i might not be arguing. But if you detonated a gigaton pile of TNT anywhere, the collateral damage that you will generate will be .... a lot. Consider Borleas and the fact that several vollies of turbolaser fire were used to bring down its shield and its facilites were still structurely sound after the engaugement, and you really cant accept that a gigaton of ordnance was detonated not only once but several hundred times. As far as the range of the Turbolasers are concerned, light minutes? im hoping you realise just how far that is, one lightminute = 17 987 547.5 kilometers. i dont care how good your eyes are, you wont visually see the death star that far out, nor will it see you, and according to the movies, the battle took place well within visual range. Close enough in fact, for the Executor to be affected by the death star's gravity and crash into it. technical descrepancies aside, the Empire wins, except that in the 4th game and 7th movie, Master Chief will learn that he has force powers and will go ape shit over both the Empire and the Covenant. So in the end, the Marines win or if you wanted to, bring the Royal Manticorian Navy (Honor Harrington series) into the equation and all bets are off

In several novels, including the novelization of ROTS, fleets of ships have engaged each other from opposite sides of a star system, without much affect on their accuracy. Calculate the size of our star system and get back to me on that.

This is a galaxy that has had a united civilization for 25,000 years, has starships that can singlehandedly render entire planets lifeless (a Base Delta Zero operation obliterates the entire surface of a planet; it's far more than simply bombing major population centers. In fact, it would be easier to terraform a new world than try to make the Camaasi homeworld, a target of a BDZ attack, inhabitable again), can travel across a galaxy bigger than ours in days or hours (millions of times C, requiring really snazzy FTL sensors to not run into anything), builds space stations the size of moons, makes artificial planetoids, and has over twenty million sentient species living on over six million member worlds. I THINK they've managed to build sensors and targeting computers capable of giving their already impressive weapons an affective range, don't you?

I'm not familiar with Borleas, unfortunately, so would you mind explaining the scenario in some detail? Is it a situation where they would bombard long enough to bring down the shield and then land troops or use dialed-down weapons to target key structures, or were they going for all-out destruction and failed? When the fleet battle at Bothawui occured in the Hand of Thrawn duology, the Imperials expected three Star Destroyers to be able to slip in, wipe out the surviving capital ships and fighters, and then perform a Base Delta Zero operation on the planet itself (having sabotaged the planetary shield before hand). It was expected that every side involved in the fleet battle would blame the other for the destruction of Bothawui, with nobody the wiser that the Imperials had actually done it, which means no survivors to say otherwise. They were pretty darn confident about it, and the only thing that stopped the plan from working was one of the Republic ships accidentally discovering the cloaked Star Destroyers and causing the entire fleet to unite and chase them away.

<Yoda> Strong is the Nerd in this thread<Yoda>

How would the Kilralthi (Wing Commander) fair against the Empire?

Quoted: How would the Kilralthi (Wing Commander) fair against the Empire?

You seen that one commercial where the skinny guy is in a prison shower room, and a bigger guy comes along and knocks his soap onto the floor?

Quoted: In several novels, including the novelization of ROTS, fleets of ships have engaged each other from opposite sides of a star system, without much affect on their accuracy. Calculate the size of our star system and get back to me on that. This is a galaxy that has had a united civilization for 25,000 years, has starships that can singlehandedly render entire planets lifeless (a Base Delta Zero operation obliterates the entire surface of a planet; it's far more than simply bombing major population centers. In fact, it would be easier to terraform a new world than try to make the Camaasi homeworld, a target of a BDZ attack, inhabitable again), can travel across a galaxy bigger than ours in days or hours (millions of times C, requiring really snazzy FTL sensors to not run into anything), builds space stations the size of moons, makes artificial planetoids, and has over twenty million sentient species living on over six million member worlds. I THINK they've managed to build sensors and targeting computers capable of giving their already impressive weapons an affective range, don't you? I'm not familiar with Borleas, unfortunately, so would you mind explaining the scenario in some detail? Is it a situation where they would bombard long enough to bring down the shield and then land troops or use dialed-down weapons to target key structures, or were they going for all-out destruction and failed? When the fleet battle at Bothawui occured in the Hand of Thrawn duology, the Imperials expected three Star Destroyers to be able to slip in, wipe out the surviving capital ships and fighters, and then perform a Base Delta Zero operation on the planet itself (having sabotaged the planetary shield before hand). It was expected that every side involved in the fleet battle would blame the other for the destruction of Bothawui, with nobody the wiser that the Imperials had actually done it, which means no survivors to say otherwise. They were pretty darn confident about it, and the only thing that stopped the plan from working was one of the Republic ships accidentally discovering the cloaked Star Destroyers and causing the entire fleet to unite and chase them away.

by all means they should be able to target an attack targets from several light minutes away if you go by that  logic, but im just stating that as far as the movies and all of the books ive read go, they dont attack from anywhere near light minute ranges.

Borleias (i spelled it wrong before) was an operation to take a planet just prior to the infiltration of and attack on Coruscant. An Imperial Star Destroyer, two Mon Calamari Cruisers, and two bulk cruisers opened fire on a shielded installation with the intent to bring down its shield, land troops, and take control of the base facilities. Structures and forests abutting the exterior of the shield were destroyed not by hits from turbolaser bolts, but from energy bleed off from the shield when it was hit by "salvos and slavos of turbolaser and ion cannon fire." In the end however, the New Republic's attack fell victim to an ambush and the assault was a complete failure (gotta love politically driven generals)

The attack is described in the first book of the X-Wing series: Rogue Squadron, by Michael A. Stackpole

Quoted: by all means they should be able to target an attack targets from several light minutes away if you go by that  logic, but im just stating that as far as the movies and all of the books ive read go, they dont attack from anywhere near light minute ranges. Then you haven't read the right books. Borleias (i spelled it wrong before) was an operation to take a planet just prior to the infiltration of and attack on Coruscant. An Imperial Star Destroyer, two Mon Calamari Cruisers, and two bulk cruisers opened fire on a shielded installation with the intent to bring down its shield, land troops, and take control of the base facilities. Structures and forests abutting the exterior of the shield were destroyed not by hits from turbolaser bolts, but from energy bleed off from the shield when it was hit by "salvos and slavos of turbolaser and ion cannon fire." In the end however, the New Republic's attack fell victim to an ambush and the assault was a complete failure (gotta love politically driven generals) The attack is described in the first book of the X-Wing series: Rogue Squadron, by Michael A. Stackpole

So... you're saying that turbolasers aren't as powerful as they are (despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary) because in ONE book, written by a guy who gets most of his material from video game mechanics (games being the lowest possible canon in Star Wars), they don't manage to bring down a major shield generator before they get amushed?

Quoted: Quoted: by all means they should be able to target an attack targets from several light minutes away if you go by that  logic, but im just stating that as far as the movies and all of the books ive read go, they dont attack from anywhere near light minute ranges. Then you haven't read the right books. Borleias (i spelled it wrong before) was an operation to take a planet just prior to the infiltration of and attack on Coruscant. An Imperial Star Destroyer, two Mon Calamari Cruisers, and two bulk cruisers opened fire on a shielded installation with the intent to bring down its shield, land troops, and take control of the base facilities. Structures and forests abutting the exterior of the shield were destroyed not by hits from turbolaser bolts, but from energy bleed off from the shield when it was hit by "salvos and slavos of turbolaser and ion cannon fire." In the end however, the New Republic's attack fell victim to an ambush and the assault was a complete failure (gotta love politically driven generals) The attack is described in the first book of the X-Wing series: Rogue Squadron, by Michael A. Stackpole So... you're saying that turbolasers aren't as powerful as they are (despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary) because in ONE book, written by a guy who gets most of his material from video game mechanics (games being the lowest possible canon in Star Wars), they don't manage to bring down a major shield generator before they get amushed?

Ive read the Xwing series, Thrawn series, Corellian Crisis, Black Fleet crisis, I jedi, half of the Bounty Hunter series, the Hand of Thrawn series, Ive even read the essiential guides and the cross sections books where the figures they come up with are laughably overestimated. The only books i havnt read are the ones that take place before a new hope, the new jedi order series, and those books that take place after those. So, please tell me which books i should read so that I am as elightened as you are.

As fas as Turbolaser strength goes, im basing my opinions based on the fact that if you were to release an amount of energy measured in gigatons on a plantary target, it would result in an amount of collateral damage that would make hiroshima look like a minor blemish on the landscape, instead of  merely igniting trees and destroying buildings in very close close proximity to the intended target.

And if you want to go into canon levels, then one would have to say that standard doctrine of space combat tacitcs in the star wars universe is to close to well under visual range before attacking the enemy, based on the battle of endor and the opening scenes of a new hope. Going off of that assumption, the Imperial navy is run by incompotents who would fair as well as the french did against the germans if the Covenant came.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: by all means they should be able to target an attack targets from several light minutes away if you go by that  logic, but im just stating that as far as the movies and all of the books ive read go, they dont attack from anywhere near light minute ranges. Then you haven't read the right books. Borleias (i spelled it wrong before) was an operation to take a planet just prior to the infiltration of and attack on Coruscant. An Imperial Star Destroyer, two Mon Calamari Cruisers, and two bulk cruisers opened fire on a shielded installation with the intent to bring down its shield, land troops, and take control of the base facilities. Structures and forests abutting the exterior of the shield were destroyed not by hits from turbolaser bolts, but from energy bleed off from the shield when it was hit by "salvos and slavos of turbolaser and ion cannon fire." In the end however, the New Republic's attack fell victim to an ambush and the assault was a complete failure (gotta love politically driven generals) The attack is described in the first book of the X-Wing series: Rogue Squadron, by Michael A. Stackpole So... you're saying that turbolasers aren't as powerful as they are (despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary) because in ONE book, written by a guy who gets most of his material from video game mechanics (games being the lowest possible canon in Star Wars), they don't manage to bring down a major shield generator before they get amushed? Ive read the Xwing series, Thrawn series, Corellian Crisis, Black Fleet crisis, I jedi, half of the Bounty Hunter series, the Hand of Thrawn series, Ive even read the essiential guides and the cross sections books where the figures they come up with are laughably overestimated. The only books i havnt read are the ones that take place before a new hope, the new jedi order series, and those books that take place after those. So, please tell me which books i should read so that I am as elightened as you are. As fas as Turbolaser strength goes, im basing my opinions based on the fact that if you were to release an amount of energy measured in gigatons on a plantary target, it would result in an amount of collateral damage that would make hiroshima look like a minor blemish on the landscape, instead of  merely igniting trees and destroying buildings in very close close proximity to the intended target. And if you want to go into canon levels, then one would have to say that standard doctrine of space combat tacitcs in the star wars universe is to close to well under visual range before attacking the enemy, based on the battle of endor and the opening scenes of a new hope. Going off of that assumption, the Imperial navy is run by incompotents who would fair as well as the french did against the germans if the Covenant came.

The ICS books are higher canon than the novels, which are higher canon than the Essential Guides, which are riddled with errors. If the ICS says something, then it's correct until and unless the movies contradict them, which they don't.

If you're shooting a massive energy shield, all the damage is going into into the shield. You're not going to be setting fire to things way the fuck away from shots targeting a specific object. Oh wait, they did that anyway. Against the shield, the only effect you're going to get is super-heated air around the shield and a lot of noise. Once the shield is down, then shots will get through and start fucking things up. Remember in TESB where they couldn't bombard the shield without destroying the base underneath it, which they couldn't do because they wanted prisoners? That's why they landed ground troops to pass through the shield and take out the generator.

And you're really not thinking clearly about engagement ranges. In ANH, the Star Destroyer was chasing a much smaller vessel that it was trying to disable relatively intact, capture, and board. If outright destruction was the intended goal, they could have done before the fight even reached Tatooine. In ROTJ, notice Ackbar thinks that going to point-blank range (several thousand meters in most cases) is suicidal? In the novelization, he comments that it's never been done before (though it has been done before, it's just not very common because now you can't focus all your guns on one target).

As for incompetents, how you get that from pursuing and capturing another ship and then HAVING THE EMPEROR FORBID YOU FROM DESTROYING ANY OF THE ENEMY VESSELS so he can put on a display with his Iron Testicle and its superlaser of doom, giving the enemy fleet the opportunity to close to point-blank range and concentrate fire on your flagship, does not constitute incompetence on the part of the Imperials. It DOES constitute Palpatine-is-a-friggin'-idiot, kinda like Hitler fucking things up for the Germans in WWII.

Besides, how competent do you need to be in order to waste a fleet of ships with one shot each?