ATF reg. 922r (supposedly) deals with the number of American parts that must be in an imported gun to use hi-cap mags.

I went to the ATF website, and found what I could about 922r.
Something doesn't add up.
On their website, under 922, I didn't find anything about "parts count".

Does a WASR 10 have American parts?
A WASR has a pistol grip, hi cap mags, and other evil features, but is legal to shoot as is.

My Saiga has no pistol grip, folding stock, etc.
(I know some of this was under the AWB which is gone. (For now. ) )
Where is the regulation that says an imported weapon can't use hi-cap mags?

Since Tennesse doesn't have any magazine capacity regs., I wonder if I even need to worry about it.

Can somebody provide a link to the ATF document that talks about "parts count"?
I've searched here, and several other boards, and found lots of talk about the law, but no actual links.

The general consensus seems to be, that if you modify a Saiga to use AK mags, but don's install 5 or 6 American parts, you've violated the law.
I'd like to see that law.

I've got a strong suspicion that we are doing lots of parts swapping that may not be necessary.

If someone can show me the holes in my logic, I'm willing to be educated.  
Thanks.

(Edited to remove comments that some may have found offensive.)

I am interested as well so free bump.

You'll find the info in the AK forums.
Yes, a wasr high cap has had the U.S. parts added to make it legal to use high cap mags.
A saiga in stock form hasn't. I don't have a link to the aw right now but it basicly says you can't use high cap mags in an imprted rifle but once you reduce the number of imprted parts to 10 or less it's no longer considered imported.

Quoted: * * * If someone can show me the holes in my logic, I'm willing to be educated.   Thanks.

Take the tin foil off and go read the law and implementing regulations.

The criminal act is to assemble a rifle in a configuration banned from import (generally:  one which includes a pistol grip, bayonette, or high capacity magazine) using more than 10 imported parts among a listing of "counted" items.  If you have more than 10 of the counted items and you assemble something that could not get imported

The importers cannot import complete rifles because of this, so they import parts.  Then they replace "listed" parts with US versions so that the think they're assembling has less than 10.    Some importers, especially of AK clones, put their buyers in peril by replacing mag floor plates and followers to achieve 922r compliance.   The result, of course, is that an end user might get pinched for using a "regular" magazine.

I don't see where you can say that US parts is not necessary to comply with 922r.

Part of the problem is that playing the 10 or less game is an attempt to utilize a loophole in the law.   (They fuckers that passed the law did not believe it would be possible for people to find enough US replacement parts).

Your WASR has the US parts added stateside before its sold.

The Siago is not assembled in a non-importable form:  Its got no pistol grip, no folding stock, no bayonette, and its sold with a low cap magazine and a mag well that does not readily accept hi caps.

Quoted: Quoted: * * * If someone can show me the holes in my logic, I'm willing to be educated.   Thanks. Take the tin foil off and go read the law and implementing regulations. The criminal act is to assemble a rifle in a configuration banned from import (generally:  one which includes a pistol grip, bayonette, or high capacity magazine) using more than 10 imported parts among a listing of "counted" items.  If you have more than 10 of the counted items and you assemble something that could not get imported The importers cannot import complete rifles because of this, so they import parts.  Then they replace "listed" parts with US versions so that the think they're assembling has less than 10.    Some importers, especially of AK clones, put their buyers in peril by replacing mag floor plates and followers to achieve 922r compliance.   The result, of course, is that an end user might get pinched for using a "regular" magazine. I don't see where you can say that US parts is not necessary to comply with 922r. Part of the problem is that playing the 10 or less game is an attempt to utilize a loophole in the law.   (They fuckers that passed the law did not believe it would be possible for people to find enough US replacement parts). Your WASR has the US parts added stateside before its sold. The Siago is not assembled in a non-importable form:  Its got no pistol grip, no folding stock, no bayonette, and its sold with a low cap magazine and a mag well that does not readily accept hi caps.

Has an individual ever been charged with violating this? How exactly can they prove what parts were not made here if there are no markings? Several US made parts that I have seen/bought have had no markings.

ETA: A lot of the imported parts also have no markings.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: * * * If someone can show me the holes in my logic, I'm willing to be educated.   Thanks. Take the tin foil off and go read the law and implementing regulations. The criminal act is to assemble a rifle in a configuration banned from import (generally:  one which includes a pistol grip, bayonette, or high capacity magazine) using more than 10 imported parts among a listing of "counted" items.  If you have more than 10 of the counted items and you assemble something that could not get imported The importers cannot import complete rifles because of this, so they import parts.  Then they replace "listed" parts with US versions so that the think they're assembling has less than 10.    Some importers, especially of AK clones, put their buyers in peril by replacing mag floor plates and followers to achieve 922r compliance.   The result, of course, is that an end user might get pinched for using a "regular" magazine. I don't see where you can say that US parts is not necessary to comply with 922r. Part of the problem is that playing the 10 or less game is an attempt to utilize a loophole in the law.   (They fuckers that passed the law did not believe it would be possible for people to find enough US replacement parts). Your WASR has the US parts added stateside before its sold. The Siago is not assembled in a non-importable form:  Its got no pistol grip, no folding stock, no bayonette, and its sold with a low cap magazine and a mag well that does not readily accept hi caps. Has an individual ever been charged with violating this? How exactly can they prove what parts were not made here if there are no markings? Several US made parts that I have seen/bought have had no markings. ETA: A lot of the imported parts also have no markings.

I did some Westlaw searching on this a while back.   There have been prosecution, usually as part of throwing the kitchen sink at someone who did other bad things.  

Quoted: Quoted: * * * If someone can show me the holes in my logic, I'm willing to be educated.   Thanks. Take the tin foil off and go read the law and implementing regulations.

You can see my tinfoil??!!

I knew this computer monitor could be used as a camera!

Seriously, take off your tinfoil, and re-read my post.
I've read 922(r).

So far, you are repeating the same verbiage that everyone else repeats.
As I said, I looked up 922 on the ATF website, and dug down to section "R".
Here is (r) in total:
(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to --

(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency

thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision

thereof; or

(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Secretary.

Here's a link to the entire Gun Control Act:
GCA

I'll admit I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but show me the words "parts count" in this.
Also don't see anything about magazine capacity in here, but I've not read the entire law yet.

I also don't see where the Saiga would be prohibited from having hi-cap magazines, based on this.
Without a pistol grip, it does not resemble any prohibited weapon.
(See 922(r), paragraph 1.)

As I tried to say in my original post, I just want the actual law.
Not endlessly repeated Internet myth.

(Edited to add: I did a search for the word "capacity", and it appears that the AWB from 1994 is included on the end of this document. ???)

Quoted: I'll admit I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but show me the words "parts count" in this....

Well, you said it.

Look, 922(r) by your own quote serves to criminalize an even BROADER swath of conduct than the 10 or less game.  ANY assembly of a rifle prohibited from import.  You actually need to go to the section they're referencing to see what they mean about prohibited from import.  You'll find they adopted the sporting purposes test and found things such as high cap magazines, folding stocks, bayonettes, and pistol grips as nonsporting.  

The shooter community got a break when ATF issued IMPLEMENTING REGULATIONS for 922r that adopted the 10 or less rule:  

The implementing regulations may be found at Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) section 178.39(a)   Those regs, which also carry force of law,  provide that no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of that section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d) (3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.   They list 20 parts, and if your rifle has more than 10 and you cannot prove they were not imported, you've assembled the rifle in violaiton.  

Also don't see anything about magazine capacity in here, but I've not read the entire law yet.

You might want to do that.   Look, if you want to show up and say that the entire gun industry is in a conspiracy to make you buy parts that aren't required, somehow in the process eschewing the fact it would be CHEAPER for them not to do that, and to claim everyone's view of the law is all wet:  IT IS INCUMBENT ON YOU to do the research.  Don't just post some half-witted assertion and ask us to refute it.

I also don't see where the Saiga would be prohibited from having hi-cap magazines, based on this. Without a pistol grip, it does not resemble any prohibited weapon. (See 922(r), paragraph 1.)

Ugh.   You need to read the regs, then read 925(d)(3), then read the ATF determination letters and regulations promulgated pursuant to the 925(d)(3) authority on what constitutes sporting purposes.  

Read this:  www.atf.gov/firearms/feib/guidebook/FEIB-GB.pdf

Then read this:  www.atf.gov/firearms/feib/guidebook/FEA-Docs/FEA-p004X-1D-S-A-16+.pdf

As I tried to say in my original post, I just want the actual law. Not endlessly repeated Internet myth.

NO, you want to speculate and have people who aren't as lazy as you to do your research.   We'll, I've pointed you in the right directions, but I'm done.

You'll find that there's a pretty clear prohibition, that its based on a damn near unconstitutional delegation of decision making power first to the ATF, then to the Attorney General, and that a lot of things with the "force" of law are so far removed from democratic actions that its just a shame.

From searching the ATF website, it looks like a "regulation" called 27 CFR 478.39 also has to do with assembling "Assault Weapons".

In several letters to FFLs, 922r and CFR 478.39 are referenced.

Don't know what it says, but I'm still searching.

Gonzo,
What's up with the attitude?

I asked a question, that a lot of people would like to know the answer to.

Considering the fact that I've spent hours scouring the ATF website, I hardly think you can call me "lazy".

It sounds like you may have the legal experience to answer my question.
But, if you are a lawyer, your "client side" manor needs some work.
Or, are you a dealer, and were offended by my remarks?

If I did say something that offended you, I apologize.
That wasn't my intent.

Thanks for the links, I will read them.

From what I've found in all of the ATF publications, 922r and 27 CFR 478.39 are referenced frequently.

478.39 is a .pdf, so I can't paste any of it here.
I haven't read it all yet, but that does appear to be where the "parts count" stuff comes from. Not 922r.

Here's a link to 478.39:
www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/27cfr_part478.pdf

Quoted: Gonzo, What's up with the attitude?

The attitude comes from the fact that if you had even minimally studied the ATF's own publications, including the first link I gave you, you would not have made your opening post.   We get something like your post every six months, and someone thinks they've got it all figured out, but its usually an exercise in selective reading and ignoring other things.

I asked a question, that a lot of people would like to know the answer to.

No.  You stated a thesis that was a non-ssequitur, several posters disagreed, and you came back with the "show me where" throw down asking us to correct your poor research.  No offense, but if you're prepared to stake out a position urging that the entire firearms community (no I'm not a dealer) has misread the laws, you better have researched it a bit better.

Considering the fact that I've spent hours scouring the ATF website, I hardly think you can call me "lazy".

OK, maybe a poor researcher then.   I pulled up the first link in my post above after 30 seconds with google and the atf site.   It points you to the source of their analysis, including the semi-auto study.  

It sounds like you may have the legal experience to answer my question. But, if you are a lawyer, your "client side" manor needs some work.

Lets be clear:  I'm not your lawyer, you're not my client.   Call me up for a consultation and lets get you on the clock before you tell me about "client side manner," umkay?  

Or, are you a dealer, and were offended by my remarks?

Nope.   Not a dealer in any way shape or form.   But again, your conspiracy theory cynicism shows its head.   Its annoying.  I'm sorry, but I don't suffer fools well.   And you are not acquitting yourself other than as such in your combative effort to argue with people by saying that because you cannot find the words "parts count" in one paragraph out of millions in the Federal Code that somehow you've cracked the magic interpretive bullet.    That you clearly do not understand what the Code of Regulations are, much less how they interplay with federal statutory law would suggest that when the legally trained you asked to answer your thread chime in, you ought not tell them that you have a better interpretive sense than they.  

Its OK to be a doubting thomas, but I confess not to have the dear lord's patience for that.  

Good luck to you sir.  

922(r) is the basis for the ACTUAL reg we must follow at 27 CFR part 178,  specifically 178.39.

§ 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun
using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.
(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:
(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by
a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency
thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political
subdivision thereof; or
(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing
or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of
§178.151; or
(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into
or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the
replacement of any part of such firearm.
(c) For purposes of this section, the ter m imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings , forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks ( trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

Yeah....

I'm guessing I didn't come across clearly in my first post.
My fault.

What I meant to say was, everybody spouts "922r" and talks about "parts count".
I found 922r, and it didn't mention parts count.

I guess if I had kept reading, I wouldn't have needed to post here.
I'm still not convinced by what I've read so far, but then these laws weren't meant to be easliy interpreted by the layman.

I was seeking clarification.

Guess I got that.

To me, if you want your weapon to meet "parts count", you are complying with 27 CFR 478.39.

Well.... 922r does have a better ring to it.

Bionicmonkey,

Thanks for posting that.
The one I found was .pdf, and I couldn't paste it.

Quoted: Part of the problem is that playing the 10 or less game is an attempt to utilize a loophole in the law.   (They fuckers that passed the law did not believe it would be possible for people to find enough US replacement parts).

That's because the fuckers who passed this law were commie retards who don't understand freedom, free markets, capitalism or America.

Hey Gonzo,

I asked for replies from lawyers, and based on your response, it appears that you are one.

I'm sure it must be frustrating trying to explain very complicated laws to blue collar folks such as myself.

Thank you sir.

Quoted: Yeah.... I'm guessing I didn't come across clearly in my first post. My fault. What I meant to say was, everybody spouts "922r" and talks about "parts count". I found 922r, and it didn't mention parts count. By my reading (again, not a lawyer, like some here) 922r appears to talk about the importation of weapons. Not modifying one you own. I guess if I had kept reading, I wouldn't have needed to post here. I'm still not convinced by what I've read so far, but then these laws weren't meant to be easliy interpreted by the layman. I was seeking clarification. Guess I got that. To me, if you want your weapon to meet "parts count", you are complying with 27 CFR 478.39. Well.... 922r does have a better ring to it.

If you modify an imported weapon into an 'unimportable' configuration you are violating the 'import ban'.  

Once a 'foreign manufactured' weapon is imported it has to stay in an 'importable' form for the duration of its life.  

If you replace enough of the parts so that it has less than 10 imported parts, it goes from being an 'imported' weapon to a 'domestic' one.  It is no longer considered to be an 'imported' weapon, and no longer has to abide by the 'import restrictions', unless you add the imported parts back.

Don't worry about 922r.
It is unprovable and unenforceable.
The only people who know or care about it are gun collectors.

Quoted: Don't worry about 922r. It is unprovable and unenforceable. The only people who know or care about it are gun collectors internet gun board members.

Careful though, saying that around here might get you a "warning".

Tin foil time.  I just could not see how putting a bullet guide in 7.62x39 Saiga and using a 10 or less round, any 10 round AK magazine would be a problem under 922r and I went to the same place you did...but it looked like we CREATE the problem on using 30 round magazine IN A SAGIA when you do the AK pistol grip conversion.

OK call me thick too, if this is the law, either law:

It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to --


Why does this 10 round magazine rule apply at all to a 7.62x39 Saiga because if you do not "convert”, it is still "suitable for sporting purposes" and not "identical" to any rifle prohibited from importation. It seems to me that you only run into this WHEN you convert a Saiga to a style "prohibited from importation".  
 
Am I wrong in assuming  that the Saiga  IS SPORTING and does not fall under the issue raised in COLUMBIA CIRCUIT No. 00-5409  Springfield, Inc.  that Springfield lost on importing the SAR8 Sporter and the SAR4800 Sporter or the Saiga would not be imported?  Is ATF saying a Saiga with an AK magazine is an AK , not sporting?   Are they saying that  a semiautomatic that CAN TAKE a detachable magazine is not sporting?   It can't be that the Saiga "magazine well does not readily accept hi caps"  because the "well" requires no alteration.   I think they have been there, NOT done that becase it CAN take one if there was one available over 10 rounds .  

Am I wrong in thinking that the Saiga is sporting or it would not be imported? MY question is can you put a +10 round magazine in an imported gun that is sporting and not identical to a semiautomatic rifle prohibited from import?  Wasn't one of the original reasons for the 10 round limit on the Saiga the Assult ban "rule" that added High Capacity in 1998?   It seems that we are mixing a rule under the expired Clinton ban with the 922r rules when it come to magazines in the Saiga. My understanding is ATF has shot this down already but I'd like to know where I can see that.

                         

922r
lets see....you buy a parts kit but you have to replace parts with the exact part but it has to be made in the USA. I totally agree with replacing the trigger parts with semiauto parts but the rest is our fine gooberment sticking its nose where is doesn't belong. Like everything if the USA just follow the money trail and you will find the cause of all evil.

NAFTA allows that if more than 50% of the value is domestic then you can call the part domestic when exporting to Canada or Mexico.  So if you paid $2 for a part and then spent and hour refinishing it, unless you value yourself less than $2/hr, your could legally export it as a made in USA product..  So could you now mount it as an American part?

This is the 1998 letter , the "high capacity ban" relateted to modified assault rifles and the opion is based on the Clinton ban.


April 6, 1998
rr-2347

TREASURY PROHIBITS IMPORTATION OF CERTAIN SEMIAUTOMATIC ASSAULT RIFLES
New Prohibition Applies to Rifles that Accept Large Capacity Military Magazines

Treasury Secretary Robert E. Rubin announced today a prohibition on theimportation of modified, semiautomatic assault rifles with the ability to accept large capacitymilitary magazines.

Today's announcement follows a comprehensive review of the importation ofapproximately 59 modified, semiautomatic assault rifles conducted by Treasury and its Bureau ofAlcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). The review was directed by President Clinton andSecretary Rubin last November, and stemmed from concerns that many new, dangeroussemiautomatic weapons had been developed in the nearly 10 years since the last review.

"President Clinton and this Administration are committed to rigorous enforcementof laws designed to keep dangerous weapons off our streets," said Rubin. "With thisdecision, we can further reduce the flow of weapons that have no legitimate use in oursociety."

Under the 1968 Gun Control Act, the Treasury Department is required to restrict theimportation of firearms unless they are determined to be "particularly suitable for or readilyadaptable to sporting purposes."

In 1989, the "sporting purposes" provision led ATF to ban the importation ofseveral semiautomatic versions of assault weapons possessing military features such as bayonetmounts, pistol grips, night sights and grenade launchers. After the 1989 prohibition, certainsemiautomatic assault rifles that had failed the sporting purposes test were modified to remove allmilitary features except the ability to accept a large capacity military magazine (LCMM) thatholds more than 10 rounds. The LCMM rifles are models based on AK-47, FN-FAL, HK 91 and93, Uzi and SIG SG550 military assault rifles.

This review concluded that the original prohibition is correct and that military-stylesemiautomatic rifles are not importable. This review further concluded that firearms with theability to accept a large capacity magazine designed and produced for a military assault weaponshould be banned. The review draws support from Congress and the Administration's 1994decision to ban large capacity military magazines on the grounds that they served"combat-functional ends" and were attractive to criminals.

"We have no desire to take guns away from hunters, or other legitimate users. Wedo, however, want to protect Americans from the violence that can result from thesesemiautomatic weapons," said Rubin.

Up to 1.6 million firearms whose importation had been suspended during the review maybe affected by this decision. Importers will be notified of this decision in writing and given anopportunity to respond.

The Study on the Sporting Suitability of Modified Semiautomatic Assault Rifles isavailable through the Treasury Public Affairs Office at (202) 622-2960 or via the Internet at http://www.atf.gov/ after12:00 p.m. EDT Monday, April 6.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Thanks for the post below.  So, unless you change parts,you are screwed on the Saiga if it takes any AK magazine, even a 10  round, as it is now "capable "of taking a "high capacity"  "miliatary" AK magazine.

Quoted: This is the 1998 letter , the "high capacity ban" relateted to modified assault rifles and the opion is based on the Clinton ban.

That is correct.   They used the 1994 AWBan as evidence, among many other things, that their so-called "large capacity"   (fuck that shit, they're REGULAR capacity, but I digress) magazines were in and of themselves non-sporting.

But the important thing to note is that even though the relied on the 1994 ban as evidence that large caps bring with them non-sporting status, the reality is that the 922r bans still stand on their own, unless there's a new reclassification.  

LOL.

You know I am a licensed Attorney and let me tell ya what you know how many days we went over firearm laws in law school? ZERO.

In both my Constitutional Law I and II course our professor never even mentioned the Second Amendment...not once.  

When I did a review course for the Bar Exam they gave a book with the last ten years worth of essay questions and not one of them was on the Second Amendment or related directly to firearms.  True Story.

Most attorneys can look up 922r and tell ya, but than again so can you with the internet.

Apparently when the BATFE was promulgating regulations to enforce 922(r) which passed in 1990 (The Unsoeld Amendment), it was not going to allow any 'parts count' but the NRA threw enough of a stink that it put in a 10 parts limit.

Older members might remember better.

I now see the light.

So after all, unless you change 922r parts,you are screwed on the Saiga and AK magazines.

If the Saiga takes any AK magazine, even a 10 round, as it is now capable of accepting a large capacity magazine designed and produced for a military assault weapon" (AK) magazine.  And "capable of" is all the ruling states you need to do to be in  922r violation , as revised by the 1998 opinion, doesn't say you have to even have one.

No a magazine GREATER than 10 rounds.

10 rounds or less is OK

Not if it is a Saiga or any other semiautomatic( imported under 922r) that has been converted to take a standard AK magazine as far as I can see.  This is about the type of magazine as well as the capacity.

"1994 ban is over but the 922r bans still stand on their own, unless there's a new reclassification."  I agree.

The question is why would a high capacity Saiga magazine that is not a large capacity military magazine (LCMM) fall under the 1998 provision of 922r that was added to and prohibits LCMM? "This review further concluded that firearms with the ability to accept a large capacity magazine designed and produced for a military assault weapon should be banned that holds more than 10 rounds" OK, that is clear, the Saiga doesn't do that , no LCMM of any capacity. In 1998 ANOTHER law ALSO prohibited any new 10+ round magazines. OK the Saiga didn't do that then either. That law is gone and the 1998 ruling that still stands is against LCMM of over 10 rounds, OK I see that. It does not say ANY magazine over 10 rounds and the Saiga does not use LCMMs, it uses a Saiga magazine. It states over and over that it is the Clinton ban that makes them see things that way. So the 1998 laws stands AGAINST LCMM and the Sagia does not use them when not converted.

http://www.atf.gov/pub/treas_pub/assault_rifles/suitabil.pdf

A standard AK magazine is over 10 rounds (generally 30).

Magazines 10 rounds or less are not 'high capacity' according to the Feds

I have been asking this same question on the Saiga board.  So let’s see if I have this right

Congress passes 1994 law = ATF changes 922r using a 1998 opinion to include +10 magazines because they want to represent the changes brought on by Congress in 1994 for "assault weapons" = +10 magazine is the same as LCMM for 922r as far as 1998 opinion = non sporting = no import.

Quote:
"Most significantly, we must reevaluate the significance of this military feature because of a
major amendment that was made to the GCA since the 1989 report was issued. In 1994,
as discussed in the “Background” section of this report, Congress passed a ban on large
capacity ammunition feeding devices and semiautomatic assault weapons.61 In enacting
these bans, Congress made it clear that it was not preventing the possession of sporting
firearms.62 Although the 1994 law was not directly addressing the sporting purposes test,
section 925(d)(3) had a strong influence on the law's content. As discussed previously,
the technical work of ATF's 1989 report was, to a large extent, incorporated into the 1994
law."

Then Congress allows 1994 ban to expire = +10 magazines are no longer banned = importing semiautomatics under 922r that use LCMM is still banned, we can still forget importing semiautomatics that use AK or other military magazines = ATF does nothing on 922r about the change in 1998 based on 1994 ban that made +10 magazine the same as LCMM as far as 922r.

So now...

+ 10 magazine ban is over, Congress not extending 1994 ban = the 1998 revised 922r stands, I can't use any +10 round magazines at all in my Saiga, period, no way, it is only sporting and able to be imported with 10 round or less magazine unless I cover the parts count and make it US even though the 1994 ban is why ATF claimed +10 magazine is a LCMM = we still can't import with or use a +10 magazines in semiautomatics that are not using LCMM, like a Saiga magazine.  We can't just just convert, no US parts added,  a 7.63x39 Saiga to any even 10 round or less AK magazine because that alone would be enough to make the Saiga identical to a rifle prohibited from importation under Section 925 (d) because in would use be capable of using an AK LCMM.
.

I know that to change this part of 922r it has to be another legal opinion, just as I was told, "1998 import regulation was patterned after the spirit of the 1994 AWB, but it is legally separate just as 922R "  

I know the 992r 1998 opinion stands and I've been told is the reason is BATF policy. They just want it that way even if the original reason as related to the 1994 ban reference is no longer valid.

 Can someone tell me if ATF was asked a legal opinion on why under the 922r 1998 opinion the ATF still considers any + 10 magazine to be the same non sporting feature, same as a LCRR, as on my question about a 7.62x39 Saiga that is not identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under Section 925 (d) after 1994 ban has expired? I can't see them changing their mind on LCMM but I'd like to see them give their basis for any +10 magazine, how about an 11 round magazine in .22 LR? ,  is a LCMM after the 1994 ban has expired.


Yes, thank you for the comment below, I know you can use +10 with US parts with any +10, I just don't agree with ATF using the 1998 opinion on SAIGA with SAIGA +10 magazines.

You can use a more than 10 round magazine in your Saiga as long as you do not exceed the 10 foreign parts count.

Let me throw this out there.  Put on a US made AK style stock and Pistol grip, install a G2 FCG in your Saiga, and you will have a much better gun, regardless of 922.  

Those mods are worth doing anyway.  

I asked this forum a while back, whether anyone had documentation of any convictions for 922 violation.  Nobody did at that time.  

Personally, I think it's worth following anyway.  No reason to give the libs any extra rope with which to hang you.

I don't think it would be better, actually in many eyes it would be worse as I just made an evil assaut rifle. I know you are saying better as in better for me, no issues and thanks for that comment.  I agree with what I read in another post, ask 2 ATF agents about 922r and you will get 3 differnt answers.  And I think adding a 30 round Saiga magazine to my "as is" Saiga is not legal, and it is not for sure under 922r 1998,  only because the ATF has not had to explain why.

If the magazine is US made 922r doesn't matter.

It's if the magazine is made in another country (including Canada) where you could get in trouble.

Just my opinion but I think you are wrong.  I have to say I don't agree at all with this reason but it is the law as it stands on 922r.

1998 opinion makes ANY +10 magaziine a LCMM.  A  semiautomatic usng a LCMM is enough to stop importation as you now have a non sporting semiautomatic.   Only way to change this is to convert to 10 or less US parts. Sagia has 14 parts.

Put a +10 US magizine in a Saiga and you have to add one more US part to get the 10 or less parts needed.  Your 1 additional US part is then making the Saiga into a US semiautomatic that has to have a US magazine (3 parts).  


14 -1(US Part ) -3 (parts for US magazine)  = US Saiga with 10 imported parts that is only legal with US magazines.

Adding bullet guild without less than 10 imported parts makes it a Saiga modificated to allow use of AK magazines. Not legal on imports.

The Saiga high capacity magazines are not legal without conversion to 10 or less US parts. I had to have it beat into me but the 1994-2004 AWB is not over on imports.

Magazine use is two issues, capacity and type. Any +10 round magazine is the same as "large capacity military magazine magazine" under 922r opinion of 1998 during the 1994-2004 AWB. ATF never changed it, still the law on imports.