How the hell can you fight a war on a withdrawal time-line? What did Bush say when he was asked for the US time-line on the Iraq withdrawal??? Bush said we'll leave when the job is done.


U.S. Gives Israel Timeline for Assault on Hezbollah, Official Says

I hope that is a mistake.

Because it would be huge mistake to EVER put a timetable on eliminating terrorists.

old news and the answer is the united states if the "world police" and no one wants to come right out and say that if russia, china, and the middle east wanted to any day of the weak they can destroy our country for trying to stomp all over the rest of the world like a kid in a sand box.



It's stupid but so has almost all of USA's policy's since WWII

Quoted: old news and the answer is the united states if the "world police" and no one wants to come right out and say that if russia, china, and the middle east wanted to any day of the weak they can destroy our country for trying to stomp all over the rest of the world like a kid in a sand box. It's stupid but so has almost all of USA's policy's since WWII

Where is that picture of Jules?

We don't want people to be killed, you know.

Bomb a few buildings here, drop a few bridges there. The bad guys will get the message.



If you're going to fight a war, fight a fucking war already.

Quoted: old news and the answer is the united states if the "world police" and no one wants to come right out and say that if russia, china, and the middle east wanted to any day of the weak they can destroy our country for trying to stomp all over the rest of the world like a kid in a sand box. It's stupid but so has almost all of USA's policy's since WWII

If you're that stupid, just how in the hell did you figure out how to turn on your computer and access the internet?

Boy, I sure hope this isn't true.

We refuse to give a timeline for ending the war in Iraq, but then we try and impose a timeline on the Isrealis?

I hate to think that we really are that hypocritical.

Political posturing.

Quoted: Boy, I sure hope this isn't true. We refuse to give a timeline for ending the war in Iraq, but then we try and impose a timeline on the Isrealis? I hate to think that we really are that hypocritical.

+1

I hope to God he isn't that stupid.  He'll get torn apart if it's true...

Quoted: Political posturing.

Still pretty stupid, given the message this president keeps repeating about our involvement in Iraq.

The US needs to STFU and let Israel fight it's war to win it, instead of caving to all the international pressure that would turn Israel's effort into a police action instead of a military action. You cannot successfully fight terrorism in the ME using police tactics that are designed with the primary focus of eliminating civilian casualties. You would think  the US would learn a lesson from what is going on in Iraq. Obviously the US hasn't learned shit in Iraq, because we are still sacrificing our troops in great numbers, at the cost of reducing civilian casualties, so the press won't call us baby killers.

This guy had a timeline.
6 days.

i think its just something to give the media to keep all the libs from b*tching about us not telling israel to stand down.  this shows that we're "trying to help" but i'm guessing noone in the u.s. or israeli gov't is actually taking it seriously.

just a show.... i hope.

Interesting take on things..

Washington Expected an IDF Grand Slam to Dispose of Hizballah  DEBKAfile Special ReportJuly 23, 2006, 6:22 PM (GMT+02:00)

    US officials are not yet saying so out loud, but in private and “on condition of anonymity,” White House circles are signaling disappointment. It arises from the expectation that the Israeli Defense Forces, the most effective Middle East army, would dispose of Hassan Nasrallah and his Hizballah in a few days, presenting the Bush administration and Sunni Muslim Arab rulers with a dearly hoped-for smash victory against Islamic fundamentalist terrorists.

Now, after 12 days of Israeli air, sea and ground assaults, it is beginning to look as though it will take a long, sustained effort to break Hizballah.Therefore, US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice is coming to the Middle East Monday, July 24, brandishing a whip in the form of an implied deadline. She will assess the situation at close hand, talk to allies in Rome Wednesday and go back to Washington after setting a date to return in the week beginning July 30.

A really quick, crushing victory over the Hizballah could be achieved by the landing of American forces in northern Lebanon – at the invitation of the Beirut government. Nasrallah’s forces could then be strangled between US forces and the Israeli army coming up from the south. But this is not on the cards for the simple reason that America is willing to fight in Lebanon to the last Israeli soldier, just as Iran is ready to fight to the last Hizballah combatant.  


Israel must beware of being hustled into taking imprudent steps by the proxy contest between the Washington and Tehran. Israel and its armed forces must pursue their own national agenda which is to cripple the Hizballah and inflict a defeat on Tehran, both of whom are sworn to destroy the Jewish state. It is necessary for Israeli commanders to proceed cautiously and set a pace that is commensurate with their military capabilities.  

Their best fighting men must not be place needlessly in harm’s way and Lebanese civilian casualties have to be avoided as far as possible in a situation in which Hizballah stores its men and weapons in domestic cellars, kitchens and banana groves. Above all, Israel must beware of being drawn into tailoring its arduous and dangerous campaign to the pressures of Was hington’s disappointment.  


After four years in Iraq, US forces know the score and understand the challenges besetting Israel.On Day Twelve of the war, Israel faces two major tactical difficulties:1. The enemy the IDF is pursuing is not a regular army which moves divisions around, but a small militia of 4,000 hardened, highly trained jihadist guerrillas, who have reduced their offensive against Israel to two simple tactics: shooting rockets at population centers and lying in wait for a chance to take Israeli troops unawares. It therefore behooves Israeli forces, which Saturday, July 22, launched a large-scale offensive to sanitize South Lebanon, to beat Hizballah at the game of catching the opposition unawares.

There is no doubt that the Israeli army is badly in need of a success – and not only to impress the Americans. Israel’s home front, though solidly behind its servicemen, needs to be assured that the war is on course and will be fought “until the job is finished.” This is the mantra heard up and down Israel, most insistently from the one-third of the population taking the punishment of lives lost or disrupted and homes destroyed by daily rocket attacks, with very little complaint.This assurance is beginning to wear thin as the Hizballah rocket blitz intensifies day by day. Saturday, they shot a record 160 rockets at dozens of towns and communities. Sunday, July 23, the ball bearings packed in the Katyusha warheads punched hundreds of holes in a car and a workshop, killing two men on the spot. Sirens were heard for the first time in Binyamina, Zichron Yaacov and Kfar Ada, 70 km from the Lebanese border and the deepest south yet.


The buildings of Israel’s third largest city, Haifa, and many other towns of northern Israel, are severely battered and bear the scars of blasts which scatter the metal balls designed to maximize human injuries.The week’s grace that Rice appears to be granting the Israeli government and armed forces for bringing the war to a successful conclusion is also a boon for Tehran, Syria and Hizballlah. It gives them time to engineer a nasty surprise to greet the US secretary’s second visit, hitting Israel at the very moment that the diplomats weigh in to start the process for ending hostilities.  Israel will then be told to hold back on reprisals. This dead-end maneuver will be painfully familiar to the many peacemakers who tried their luck with the Palestinians, notably Condoleezza Rice’s predecessor, Colon Powell. While Syrian officials angle for direct talks with the United States and call for a ceasefire, Damascus is preparing to step into the war.  

Syrian information minister Mohsein Bilal warned Sunday, July 23, that Syria will join the conflict if Israeli ground forces in Lebanon approach the Syrian border. But Bashar Assad also prefers to hide behind the back of a proxy. The ruling Syrian Baath suddenly “discovered” Sunday a new organization called the “Front for the Liberation of Golan,” claiming it launched its first attack last Thursday, July 20, on an Israeli army post. It was said to have killed 8 Israeli soldiers and taken two hostages to be held in Syria against the release of Golan Druzes in Israeli jails. The tale is made of whole cloth, but it is a straw that shows which way the wind is blowing in Damascus.Neither Damascus nor Tehran – and certainly not the Hizballah - have any intention of leaving the diplomatic initiative in the hands of the US secretary of state. They will do their utmost to stay one step ahead of any American-led steps and keep Israeli forces from running away with a victory.

The way events are going now, both the Americans and Israelis will soon be confronted with the necessity to cut both Syria and Iran down to size.  

If we stop Israel from finishing off Hezbullah, then it sends a strong message to Iran, Syria, the Palestinians, and the whole ME, that Israel and the US do not have the resolve to finish a fight. We have proven to the world in every conflict/war since WWII that the US will cave-in to international/internal pressure. When it comes to making the tough choices, we wuss out every time.

Shit...we nuked Japan and look at them now. They are our ally, and they even make the best cars. It all worked out just fine.

Quoted: The US needs to STFU and let Israel fight it's war to win it, instead of caving to all the international pressure that would turn Israel's effort into a police action instead of a military action. You cannot successfully fight terrorism in the ME using police tactics that are designed with the primary focus of eliminating civilian casualties. You would think  the US would learn a lesson from what is going on in Iraq. Obviously the US hasn't learned shit in Iraq, because we are still sacrificing our troops in great numbers, at the cost of reducing civilian casualties, so the press won't call us baby killers.

So why does Israel listen to the US?

Why don't they just tell the US to keep the checks and do what needs to be done?

Why does Israel feel as if they need our permission or approval?

Quoted: old news and the answer is the united states if the "world police" and no one wants to come right out and say that if russia, china, and the middle east wanted to any day of the weak they can destroy our country for trying to stomp all over the rest of the world like a kid in a sand box. It's stupid but so has almost all of USA's policy's since WWII

I bet you're from the Madison area aren't ya?  

Same reason Britain seeks US approval, everybody wants to chums with the biggest kid in the playground,well.....apart from most of the Middle East!

Shame on GW for doing this, he needs to let Israel deal with this.

Quoted: Quoted: The US needs to STFU and let Israel fight it's war to win it, instead of caving to all the international pressure that would turn Israel's effort into a police action instead of a military action. You cannot successfully fight terrorism in the ME using police tactics that are designed with the primary focus of eliminating civilian casualties. You would think  the US would learn a lesson from what is going on in Iraq. Obviously the US hasn't learned shit in Iraq, because we are still sacrificing our troops in great numbers, at the cost of reducing civilian casualties, so the press won't call us baby killers. So why does Israel listen to the US? Why don't they just tell the US to keep the checks and do what needs to be done? Why does Israel feel as if they need our permission or approval?

Well Red Herring boy..... the answer to all three of your questions is:

Israel receives funding and military aid from the USA that is crucial to the survival of Israel. And as a result, they are forced to conduct themselves according to the wishes of the USA.

Quoted: it's stupid but so has almost all of USA's policy's since WWII

Great point. Reminds me of the ending scene in the movie "Patton"
where General's Patton and Bradley are comenting on how the USA
is knocking at the PC's door. Those guys were right. Damn shame

FOX reported last night that Condi offerred our tax money to help rebuild lebanon after the shooting stops.

Quoted: old news and the answer is the united states if the "world police" and no one wants to come right out and say that if russia, china, and the middle east wanted to any day of the weak they can destroy our country for trying to stomp all over the rest of the world like a kid in a sand box. It's stupid but so has almost all of USA's policy's since WWII

Who the fuck is this guy?

I love how Bush and Condi want them to negotiate and form an enduring peace pact with Hezbollah.  If I was the Israel PM I'd tell Bush "I want you to negotiate and form an eduring peace pact with Osama and Al-Queda".

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I understand what Bush and Condi are doing, but if I were Israel I'd flip them the bird and do as I damned well pleased.  There's no way we'd try to stop them or cut off funding and they know it.

Olmert (Prime Minister), Peretz (Defense Minister) and Halutz (IDF Chief of Staff) are not seroius about fighting Hezbollah. If they were, they would send a couple divisions backed by several hundred tanks (20,000 + 500). Instead, they have tied the IDF's hands. There are only 2,500 IDF troops and 30 tanks actively engaged with Hezbollah. At this rate it will take a couple years to finish Hezbollah.

Political posturing for public consumption.

Translation:  Try to kill them all in two weeks.  If it takes longer, we are publicly growing to snap our fingers at you and try to look like peacemakers.  Oh, did we mention we want as many Hezzboilahs killed?

BTW, isn't "Muslim civilian" a contradiction in terms?  Aren't all Muslims "warriors" for Islam? Thus, how can Israel cause any civilian deaths?

I promise I not trying to stir anything up.  What are your thoughts?

Quoted: Boy, I sure hope this isn't true. We refuse to give a timeline for ending the war in Iraq, but then we try and impose a timeline on the Isrealis? I hate to think that we really are that hypocritical.

There's no WE, there's Bush.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US needs to STFU and let Israel fight it's war to win it, instead of caving to all the international pressure that would turn Israel's effort into a police action instead of a military action. You cannot successfully fight terrorism in the ME using police tactics that are designed with the primary focus of eliminating civilian casualties. You would think  the US would learn a lesson from what is going on in Iraq. Obviously the US hasn't learned shit in Iraq, because we are still sacrificing our troops in great numbers, at the cost of reducing civilian casualties, so the press won't call us baby killers. So why does Israel listen to the US? Why don't they just tell the US to keep the checks and do what needs to be done? Why does Israel feel as if they need our permission or approval? Well Red Herring boy..... the answer to all three of your questions is: Israel receives funding and military aid from the USA that is crucial to the survival of Israel. And as a result, they are forced to conduct themselves according to the wishes of the USA.

Name calling again.

Tell ya what in your desire to see me as the enemy and continue to see me as only a anti semite you missed a few things.

First of which is I agree with you. GWB had pretty much driven me nuts with how he has fought the WOT with mittens on his hands. His sandbagging of Israel is only more of the same.

Second, Israel is one of the  wealthiest per capita nation in the world. Despite your assertions it doesn't need US aid. It is only 3% of it's GDP.

http://www.gopusa.com/opinion/aw_1021.shtml

"Israel is the #1 recipient of U.S. aid. But it doesn't really need the money, which totals less than 3% of its GDP. In fact, U.S. aid probably discourages needed economic reforms which could make the Israeli economy more productive. Aid also makes Israel unnecessarily dependent on the United States, making the Jewish state vulnerable to U.S. pressure to make unwise concessions to its enemies. You can't receive aid, in other words, with no strings attached."

And as the above points out, the US gives them money to fight and then tells them "not to fight." Is that helping Israeli security? Is it worth the 3%?

In addition our alliance with Israel harms us. They are the only ally we can never use. Everytime we have a war in the ME we form up some ridiculous coalition with our suppossed allies like Saudi Arabia which means Israel can't play. And with friends like Saudi who needs enemies. So no matter what we can't get shit done and the next thing you know you fight a war with Iraq and leave Saddam in power. You also have to FORCIBLY stop Israel from doing anything when the same guy you are fighting a war with launches SCUDS against a country that you actually consider an ally.

How stupid is that arrangement?

So I was hoping that Israel would be the wild card in this area and might actually fight a real war against terrorists. But instead it turns out to be the same shit we have been doing all along without anyone fighting an actual war.

The difference is Israel could actually do something about it. Since they don't need the money they could actually tell the US "thanks but no thanks" and solve this shit on their own.

It would be better for Israel, it would be better for the US, and it would actually be better for the arab world. People over there might figure out they need to leave Israel the fuck alone.

But what do I know? I'm just "Red herring Pali boy."

Quoted: Quoted: Boy, I sure hope this isn't true. We refuse to give a timeline for ending the war in Iraq, but then we try and impose a timeline on the Isrealis? I hate to think that we really are that hypocritical. There's no WE, there's Bush.

If George Bush can sell out his conservative base, and open the southern border of his own nation  to the 3rd world, how could Israel possibly trust him?
If I was in charge of Israel, I'd consider my country alone in this fight.

Quoted: Interesting take on things.. Washington Expected an IDF Grand Slam to Dispose of Hizballah  DEBKAfile Special ReportJuly 23, 2006, 6:22 PM (GMT+02:00) US officials are not yet saying so out loud, but in private and “on condition of anonymity,” White House circles are signaling disappointment. It arises from the expectation that the Israeli Defense Forces, the most effective Middle East army, would dispose of Hassan Nasrallah and his Hizballah in a few days, presenting the Bush administration and Sunni Muslim Arab rulers with a dearly hoped-for smash victory against Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. Now, after 12 days of Israeli air, sea and ground assaults, it is beginning to look as though it will take a long, sustained effort to break Hizballah.Therefore, US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice is coming to the Middle East Monday, July 24, brandishing a whip in the form of an implied deadline. She will assess the situation at close hand, talk to allies in Rome Wednesday and go back to Washington after setting a date to return in the week beginning July 30.  A really quick, crushing victory over the Hizballah could be achieved by the landing of American forces in northern Lebanon – at the invitation of the Beirut government. Nasrallah’s forces could then be strangled between US forces and the Israeli army coming up from the south. But this is not on the cards for the simple reason that America is willing to fight in Lebanon to the last Israeli soldier, just as Iran is ready to fight to the last Hizballah combatant.  Israel must beware of being hustled into taking imprudent steps by the proxy contest between the Washington and Tehran. Israel and its armed forces must pursue their own national agenda which is to cripple the Hizballah and inflict a defeat on Tehran, both of whom are sworn to destroy the Jewish state. It is necessary for Israeli commanders to proceed cautiously and set a pace that is commensurate with their military capabilities. Their best fighting men must not be place needlessly in harm’s way and Lebanese civilian casualties have to be avoided as far as possible in a situation in which Hizballah stores its men and weapons in domestic cellars, kitchens and banana groves. Above all, Israel must beware of being drawn into tailoring its arduous and dangerous campaign to the pressures of Was hington’s disappointment.  After four years in Iraq, US forces know the score and understand the challenges besetting Israel.On Day Twelve of the war, Israel faces two major tactical difficulties:1. The enemy the IDF is pursuing is not a regular army which moves divisions around, but a small militia of 4,000 hardened, highly trained jihadist guerrillas, who have reduced their offensive against Israel to two simple tactics: shooting rockets at population centers and lying in wait for a chance to take Israeli troops unawares. It therefore behooves Israeli forces, which Saturday, July 22, launched a large-scale offensive to sanitize South Lebanon, to beat Hizballah at the game of catching the opposition unawares. There is no doubt that the Israeli army is badly in need of a success – and not only to impress the Americans. Israel’s home front, though solidly behind its servicemen, needs to be assured that the war is on course and will be fought “until the job is finished.” This is the mantra heard up and down Israel, most insistently from the one-third of the population taking the punishment of lives lost or disrupted and homes destroyed by daily rocket attacks, with very little complaint.This assurance is beginning to wear thin as the Hizballah rocket blitz intensifies day by day. Saturday, they shot a record 160 rockets at dozens of towns and communities. Sunday, July 23, the ball bearings packed in the Katyusha warheads punched hundreds of holes in a car and a workshop, killing two men on the spot. Sirens were heard for the first time in Binyamina, Zichron Yaacov and Kfar Ada, 70 km from the Lebanese border and the deepest south yet. The buildings of Israel’s third largest city, Haifa, and many other towns of northern Israel, are severely battered and bear the scars of blasts which scatter the metal balls designed to maximize human injuries.The week’s grace that Rice appears to be granting the Israeli government and armed forces for bringing the war to a successful conclusion is also a boon for Tehran, Syria and Hizballlah. It gives them time to engineer a nasty surprise to greet the US secretary’s second visit, hitting Israel at the very moment that the diplomats weigh in to start the process for ending hostilities.  Israel will then be told to hold back on reprisals. This dead-end maneuver will be painfully familiar to the many peacemakers who tried their luck with the Palestinians, notably Condoleezza Rice’s predecessor, Colon Powell. While Syrian officials angle for direct talks with the United States and call for a ceasefire, Damascus is preparing to step into the war. Damascus is preparing to step into the war. Syrian information minister Mohsein Bilal warned Sunday, July 23, that Syria will join the conflict if Israeli ground forces in Lebanon approach the Syrian border. But Bashar Assad also prefers to hide behind the back of a proxy. The ruling Syrian Baath suddenly “discovered” Sunday a new organization called the “Front for the Liberation of Golan,” claiming it launched its first attack last Thursday, July 20, on an Israeli army post. It was said to have killed 8 Israeli soldiers and taken two hostages to be held in Syria against the release of Golan Druzes in Israeli jails. The tale is made of whole cloth, but it is a straw that shows which way the wind is blowing in Damascus.Neither Damascus nor Tehran – and certainly not the Hizballah - have any intention of leaving the diplomatic initiative in the hands of the US secretary of state. They will do their utmost to stay one step ahead of any American-led steps and keep Israeli forces from running away with a victory. The way events are going now, both the Americans and Israelis will soon be confronted with the necessity to cut both Syria and Iran down to size.

Formatting is your friend.  I can't read that shit.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US needs to STFU and let Israel fight it's war to win it, instead of caving to all the international pressure that would turn Israel's effort into a police action instead of a military action. You cannot successfully fight terrorism in the ME using police tactics that are designed with the primary focus of eliminating civilian casualties. You would think  the US would learn a lesson from what is going on in Iraq. Obviously the US hasn't learned shit in Iraq, because we are still sacrificing our troops in great numbers, at the cost of reducing civilian casualties, so the press won't call us baby killers. So why does Israel listen to the US? Why don't they just tell the US to keep the checks and do what needs to be done? Why does Israel feel as if they need our permission or approval? Well Red Herring boy..... the answer to all three of your questions is: Israel receives funding and military aid from the USA that is crucial to the survival of Israel. And as a result, they are forced to conduct themselves according to the wishes of the USA. Name calling again. Tell ya what in your desire to see me as the enemy and continue to see me as only a anti semite you missed a few things. First of which is I agree with you. GWB had pretty much driven me nuts with how he has fought the WOT with mittens on his hands. His sandbagging of Israel is only more of the same. Second, Israel is one of the  wealthiest per capita nation in the world. Despite your assertions it doesn't need US aid. It is only 3% of it's GDP. http://www.gopusa.com/opinion/aw_1021.shtml "Israel is the #1 recipient of U.S. aid. But it doesn't really need the money, which totals less than 3% of its GDP. In fact, U.S. aid probably discourages needed economic reforms which could make the Israeli economy more productive. Aid also makes Israel unnecessarily dependent on the United States, making the Jewish state vulnerable to U.S. pressure to make unwise concessions to its enemies. You can't receive aid, in other words, with no strings attached." And as the above points out, the US gives them money to fight and then tells them "not to fight." Is that helping Israeli security? Is it worth the 3%? In addition our alliance with Israel harms us. They are the only ally we can never use. Everytime we have a war in the ME we form up some ridiculous coalition with our suppossed allies like Saudi Arabia which means Israel can't play. And with friends like Saudi who needs enemies. So no matter what we can't get shit done and the next thing you know you fight a war with Iraq and leave Saddam in power. You also have to FORCIBLY stop Israel from doing anything when the same guy you are fighting a war with launches SCUDS against a country that you actually consider an ally. How stupid is that arrangement? So I was hoping that Israel would be the wild card in this area and might actually fight a real war against terrorists. But instead it turns out to be the same shit we have been doing all along without anyone fighting an actual war. The difference is Israel could actually do something about it. Since they don't need the money they could actually tell the US "thanks but no thanks" and solve this shit on their own. It would be better for Israel, it would be better for the US, and it would actually be better for the arab world. People over there might figure out they need to leave Israel the fuck alone. But what do I know? I'm just "Red herring Pali boy."

The article you posted is commentary. That means it's just one guys opinion.

If Israel did not need money/aid/something from the US, do you think Israel would have caved into handled the Palestinian situation they way they have all these years? And secondly, if Israel did not need money/aid from the USA, don't you think someone responsible for handing out that money/aid would have figured it out by now?

I'm sure another factor is Israel needs our weapons as well as the parts to maintain those weapon systems. If we stop selling them parts, their airforce would be grounded within a short time. We also probably share certain technology with them. The bottom-line is Israel needs the USA to be her friend, and she will do almost anything with the exception of severely compromising her safety, to make the USA happy.

How dare GW act in the best interests of the United States?

Quoted: Quoted: Interesting take on things.. Washington Expected an IDF Grand Slam to Dispose of Hizballah  DEBKAfile Special ReportJuly 23, 2006, 6:22 PM (GMT+02:00) US officials are not yet saying so out loud, but in private and “on condition of anonymity,” White House circles are signaling disappointment. It arises from the expectation that the Israeli Defense Forces, the most effective Middle East army, would dispose of Hassan Nasrallah and his Hizballah in a few days, presenting the Bush administration and Sunni Muslim Arab rulers with a dearly hoped-for smash victory against Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. Now, after 12 days of Israeli air, sea and ground assaults, it is beginning to look as though it will take a long, sustained effort to break Hizballah.Therefore, US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice is coming to the Middle East Monday, July 24, brandishing a whip in the form of an implied deadline. She will assess the situation at close hand, talk to allies in Rome Wednesday and go back to Washington after setting a date to return in the week beginning July 30.  A really quick, crushing victory over the Hizballah could be achieved by the landing of American forces in northern Lebanon – at the invitation of the Beirut government. Nasrallah’s forces could then be strangled between US forces and the Israeli army coming up from the south. But this is not on the cards for the simple reason that America is willing to fight in Lebanon to the last Israeli soldier, just as Iran is ready to fight to the last Hizballah combatant.  Israel must beware of being hustled into taking imprudent steps by the proxy contest between the Washington and Tehran. Israel and its armed forces must pursue their own national agenda which is to cripple the Hizballah and inflict a defeat on Tehran, both of whom are sworn to destroy the Jewish state. It is necessary for Israeli commanders to proceed cautiously and set a pace that is commensurate with their military capabilities. Their best fighting men must not be place needlessly in harm’s way and Lebanese civilian casualties have to be avoided as far as possible in a situation in which Hizballah stores its men and weapons in domestic cellars, kitchens and banana groves. Above all, Israel must beware of being drawn into tailoring its arduous and dangerous campaign to the pressures of Was hington’s disappointment.  After four years in Iraq, US forces know the score and understand the challenges besetting Israel.On Day Twelve of the war, Israel faces two major tactical difficulties:1. The enemy the IDF is pursuing is not a regular army which moves divisions around, but a small militia of 4,000 hardened, highly trained jihadist guerrillas, who have reduced their offensive against Israel to two simple tactics: shooting rockets at population centers and lying in wait for a chance to take Israeli troops unawares. It therefore behooves Israeli forces, which Saturday, July 22, launched a large-scale offensive to sanitize South Lebanon, to beat Hizballah at the game of catching the opposition unawares. There is no doubt that the Israeli army is badly in need of a success – and not only to impress the Americans. Israel’s home front, though solidly behind its servicemen, needs to be assured that the war is on course and will be fought “until the job is finished.” This is the mantra heard up and down Israel, most insistently from the one-third of the population taking the punishment of lives lost or disrupted and homes destroyed by daily rocket attacks, with very little complaint.This assurance is beginning to wear thin as the Hizballah rocket blitz intensifies day by day. Saturday, they shot a record 160 rockets at dozens of towns and communities. Sunday, July 23, the ball bearings packed in the Katyusha warheads punched hundreds of holes in a car and a workshop, killing two men on the spot. Sirens were heard for the first time in Binyamina, Zichron Yaacov and Kfar Ada, 70 km from the Lebanese border and the deepest south yet. The buildings of Israel’s third largest city, Haifa, and many other towns of northern Israel, are severely battered and bear the scars of blasts which scatter the metal balls designed to maximize human injuries.The week’s grace that Rice appears to be granting the Israeli government and armed forces for bringing the war to a successful conclusion is also a boon for Tehran, Syria and Hizballlah. It gives them time to engineer a nasty surprise to greet the US secretary’s second visit, hitting Israel at the very moment that the diplomats weigh in to start the process for ending hostilities.  Israel will then be told to hold back on reprisals. This dead-end maneuver will be painfully familiar to the many peacemakers who tried their luck with the Palestinians, notably Condoleezza Rice’s predecessor, Colon Powell. While Syrian officials angle for direct talks with the United States and call for a ceasefire, Damascus is preparing to step into the war. Damascus is preparing to step into the war. Syrian information minister Mohsein Bilal warned Sunday, July 23, that Syria will join the conflict if Israeli ground forces in Lebanon approach the Syrian border. But Bashar Assad also prefers to hide behind the back of a proxy. The ruling Syrian Baath suddenly “discovered” Sunday a new organization called the “Front for the Liberation of Golan,” claiming it launched its first attack last Thursday, July 20, on an Israeli army post. It was said to have killed 8 Israeli soldiers and taken two hostages to be held in Syria against the release of Golan Druzes in Israeli jails. The tale is made of whole cloth, but it is a straw that shows which way the wind is blowing in Damascus.Neither Damascus nor Tehran – and certainly not the Hizballah - have any intention of leaving the diplomatic initiative in the hands of the US secretary of state. They will do their utmost to stay one step ahead of any American-led steps and keep Israeli forces from running away with a victory. The way events are going now, both the Americans and Israelis will soon be confronted with the necessity to cut both Syria and Iran down to size.   Formatting is your friend.  I can't read that shit.

wow, that was kinda rough on the brain...sorry

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US needs to STFU and let Israel fight it's war to win it, instead of caving to all the international pressure that would turn Israel's effort into a police action instead of a military action. You cannot successfully fight terrorism in the ME using police tactics that are designed with the primary focus of eliminating civilian casualties. You would think  the US would learn a lesson from what is going on in Iraq. Obviously the US hasn't learned shit in Iraq, because we are still sacrificing our troops in great numbers, at the cost of reducing civilian casualties, so the press won't call us baby killers. So why does Israel listen to the US? Why don't they just tell the US to keep the checks and do what needs to be done? Why does Israel feel as if they need our permission or approval? Well Red Herring boy..... the answer to all three of your questions is: Israel receives funding and military aid from the USA that is crucial to the survival of Israel. And as a result, they are forced to conduct themselves according to the wishes of the USA. Name calling again. Tell ya what in your desire to see me as the enemy and continue to see me as only a anti semite you missed a few things. First of which is I agree with you. GWB had pretty much driven me nuts with how he has fought the WOT with mittens on his hands. His sandbagging of Israel is only more of the same. Second, Israel is one of the  wealthiest per capita nation in the world. Despite your assertions it doesn't need US aid. It is only 3% of it's GDP. http://www.gopusa.com/opinion/aw_1021.shtml "Israel is the #1 recipient of U.S. aid. But it doesn't really need the money, which totals less than 3% of its GDP. In fact, U.S. aid probably discourages needed economic reforms which could make the Israeli economy more productive. Aid also makes Israel unnecessarily dependent on the United States, making the Jewish state vulnerable to U.S. pressure to make unwise concessions to its enemies. You can't receive aid, in other words, with no strings attached." And as the above points out, the US gives them money to fight and then tells them "not to fight." Is that helping Israeli security? Is it worth the 3%? In addition our alliance with Israel harms us. They are the only ally we can never use. Everytime we have a war in the ME we form up some ridiculous coalition with our suppossed allies like Saudi Arabia which means Israel can't play. And with friends like Saudi who needs enemies. So no matter what we can't get shit done and the next thing you know you fight a war with Iraq and leave Saddam in power. You also have to FORCIBLY stop Israel from doing anything when the same guy you are fighting a war with launches SCUDS against a country that you actually consider an ally. How stupid is that arrangement? So I was hoping that Israel would be the wild card in this area and might actually fight a real war against terrorists. But instead it turns out to be the same shit we have been doing all along without anyone fighting an actual war. The difference is Israel could actually do something about it. Since they don't need the money they could actually tell the US "thanks but no thanks" and solve this shit on their own. It would be better for Israel, it would be better for the US, and it would actually be better for the arab world. People over there might figure out they need to leave Israel the fuck alone. But what do I know? I'm just "Red herring Pali boy." The article you posted is commentary. That means it's just one guys opinion.

The FACT that US Aid is only 3% of its GDP is NOT opinion or commentary. His commentary and opinions are based upon that fact.

Furthermore if it is actually your opinion that Israel could NOT survive without US aid then why the hell does the country exist at all? When did the US become financially responsible for the sustaining of a foreign country?

Quoted: If Israel did not need money/aid/something from the US, do you think Israel would have caved into handled the Palestinian situation they way they have all these years? And secondly, if Israel did not need money/aid from the USA, don't you think someone responsible for handing out that money/aid would have figured it out by now?

Probably for the same reason the US does all kinds of stupid shit that is contrary to the best interests of the US.

And why does the US give aid to those who don't need it? Hell up until 2005 we gave aid to Saudi Arabia. Do you think Saudi Arabia needs US aid? We give money to EVERYONE so that we can try and tell them what to do. And that is why we give money to Israel. So we can tell Israel what they can and cannot do.

What I don't understand is why they accept it.

Quoted: I'm sure another factor is Israel needs our weapons as well as the parts to maintain those weapon systems. If we stop selling them parts, their airforce would be grounded within a short time. We also probably share certain technology with them. The bottom-line is Israel needs the USA to be her friend, and she will do almost anything with the exception of severely compromising her safety, to make the USA happy.

First off all they don't need jack. They already have a lot of hardware. And if we stopped GIVING them weapons they could certainly buy them. We stop giving them M-16s I think IMI could probably arm every person in Israel with a Tavor. And them BUYING weapons is a lot different from getting them FREE. If Israel actually BOUGHT weapons (and I mean with their money and not money we gave to them) then they could actually dictate to the US somewhat. And if not, they can buy from France like China does.

Furthermore, the two countries could easily maintain diplomatic terms and mutual assistance without the US aid. The differences is Israel would be free to act in their own best interests without being beholden to the US.

If we stopped giving them money altogether I'm sure the UN voting records of both countries wouldn't change too damn much. And when GWB pulls some stunt like the current one, Israel would be in a position to say "We aren't obligated."

Bottom line is Israel is I don't agree with your premise that Israel would not exist without direct aid from the US. And if your premise is actually TRUE then Israel shouldn't exist. The US isn't obligated to sustain other nations.

"You are either with us or you are with the terrorists."

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US needs to STFU and let Israel fight it's war to win it, instead of caving to all the international pressure that would turn Israel's effort into a police action instead of a military action. You cannot successfully fight terrorism in the ME using police tactics that are designed with the primary focus of eliminating civilian casualties. You would think  the US would learn a lesson from what is going on in Iraq. Obviously the US hasn't learned shit in Iraq, because we are still sacrificing our troops in great numbers, at the cost of reducing civilian casualties, so the press won't call us baby killers. So why does Israel listen to the US? Why don't they just tell the US to keep the checks and do what needs to be done? Why does Israel feel as if they need our permission or approval? Well Red Herring boy..... the answer to all three of your questions is: Israel receives funding and military aid from the USA that is crucial to the survival of Israel. And as a result, they are forced to conduct themselves according to the wishes of the USA. Name calling again. Tell ya what in your desire to see me as the enemy and continue to see me as only a anti semite you missed a few things. First of which is I agree with you. GWB had pretty much driven me nuts with how he has fought the WOT with mittens on his hands. His sandbagging of Israel is only more of the same. Second, Israel is one of the  wealthiest per capita nation in the world. Despite your assertions it doesn't need US aid. It is only 3% of it's GDP. http://www.gopusa.com/opinion/aw_1021.shtml "Israel is the #1 recipient of U.S. aid. But it doesn't really need the money, which totals less than 3% of its GDP. In fact, U.S. aid probably discourages needed economic reforms which could make the Israeli economy more productive. Aid also makes Israel unnecessarily dependent on the United States, making the Jewish state vulnerable to U.S. pressure to make unwise concessions to its enemies. You can't receive aid, in other words, with no strings attached." And as the above points out, the US gives them money to fight and then tells them "not to fight." Is that helping Israeli security? Is it worth the 3%? In addition our alliance with Israel harms us. They are the only ally we can never use. Everytime we have a war in the ME we form up some ridiculous coalition with our suppossed allies like Saudi Arabia which means Israel can't play. And with friends like Saudi who needs enemies. So no matter what we can't get shit done and the next thing you know you fight a war with Iraq and leave Saddam in power. You also have to FORCIBLY stop Israel from doing anything when the same guy you are fighting a war with launches SCUDS against a country that you actually consider an ally. How stupid is that arrangement? So I was hoping that Israel would be the wild card in this area and might actually fight a real war against terrorists. But instead it turns out to be the same shit we have been doing all along without anyone fighting an actual war. The difference is Israel could actually do something about it. Since they don't need the money they could actually tell the US "thanks but no thanks" and solve this shit on their own. It would be better for Israel, it would be better for the US, and it would actually be better for the arab world. People over there might figure out they need to leave Israel the fuck alone. But what do I know? I'm just "Red herring Pali boy." The article you posted is commentary. That means it's just one guys opinion. The FACT that US Aid is only 3% of its GDP is NOT opinion or commentary. His commentary and opinions are based upon that fact. Furthermore if it is actually your opinion that Israel could NOT survive without US aid then why the hell does the country exist at all? When did the US become financially responsible for the sustaining of a foreign country? Quoted: If Israel did not need money/aid/something from the US, do you think Israel would have caved into handled the Palestinian situation they way they have all these years? And secondly, if Israel did not need money/aid from the USA, don't you think someone responsible for handing out that money/aid would have figured it out by now? Probably for the same reason the US does all kinds of stupid shit that is contrary to the best interests of the US. And why does the US give aid to those who don't need it? Hell up until 2005 we gave aid to Saudi Arabia. Do you think Saudi Arabia needs US aid? We give money to EVERYONE so that we can try and tell them what to do. And that is why we give money to Israel. So we can tell Israel what they can and cannot do. What I don't understand is why they accept it. Quoted: I'm sure another factor is Israel needs our weapons as well as the parts to maintain those weapon systems. If we stop selling them parts, their airforce would be grounded within a short time. We also probably share certain technology with them. The bottom-line is Israel needs the USA to be her friend, and she will do almost anything with the exception of severely compromising her safety, to make the USA happy. First off all they don't need jack. They already have a lot of hardware. And if we stopped GIVING them weapons they could certainly buy them. We stop giving them M-16s I think IMI could probably arm every person in Israel with a Tavor. And them BUYING weapons is a lot different from getting them FREE. If Israel actually BOUGHT weapons (and I mean with their money and not money we gave to them) then they could actually dictate to the US somewhat. And if not, they can buy from France like China does. Furthermore, the two countries could easily maintain diplomatic terms and mutual assistance without the US aid. The differences is Israel would be free to act in their own best interests without being beholden to the US. If we stopped giving them money altogether I'm sure the UN voting records of both countries wouldn't change too damn much. And when GWB pulls some stunt like the current one, Israel would be in a position to say "We aren't obligated." Bottom line is Israel is I don't agree with your premise that Israel would not exist without direct aid from the US. And if your premise is actually TRUE then Israel shouldn't exist. The US isn't obligated to sustain other nations.

It's all about oil. We need to keep the ME region stable so we can keep getting the lifeblood (oil) of this nation. Without Israel there to help us keep the region somewhat stable, the Arabs would soon be at war invading and killing each other, blowing up each others oil facilities, which would severly reduce our oil supply and plunge our economy into the worst depression this country has ever seen.

I hope that Israel doesn't bow to us pressure and takes as long as it needs to get the job done right.

Probably trying to stop it from turning into a big war.

"Hey Israel, we got two weeks worth of smart bombs on the way, after that you are on your own until the factory catches up."

WTF? How can you ask Israel to stop fighting back when rockets are still hitting their cities???


BTW, I'm sure Israel can make all the rifles they want, but it's quite possible that they don't have the infrastructure to maintain their fighter jets and other high-tech weapons. It takes a hell of a lot of parts and factories to build and maintain an air force, and you have to be willing to build a lot of jets to justify the expense. I wouldn't be surprised if their economy just isn't big enough to absorb all of the infrastructure needed, and the IDF wasn't big enough to justify the expense of developing modern aircraft. They need all of the modern hardware to defend themselves against their Arab neighbors with all of their Russian and French built gear, and they'd rather be beholden to the US (with a relatively large and influential Jewish population) then to France and Russia.

Quoted: It's all about oil. We need to keep the ME region stable so we can keep getting the lifeblood (oil) of this nation. Without Israel there to help us keep the region somewhat stable, the Arabs would soon be at war invading and killing each other, blowing up each others oil facilities, which would severly reduce our oil supply and plunge our economy into the worst depression this country has ever seen.

Which is why we give Israel money then tell them they can't bomb arabs.

Still doesn't seem like a solution though does it?

Quoted: WTF? How can you ask Israel to stop fighting back when rockets are still hitting their cities??? BTW, I'm sure Israel can make all the rifles they want, but it's quite possible that they don't have the infrastructure to maintain their fighter jets and other high-tech weapons. It takes a hell of a lot of parts and factories to build and maintain an air force, and you have to be willing to build a lot of jets to justify the expense. I wouldn't be surprised if their economy just isn't big enough to absorb all of the infrastructure needed, and the IDF wasn't big enough to justify the expense of developing modern aircraft. They need all of the modern hardware to defend themselves against their Arab neighbors with all of their Russian and French built gear, and they'd rather be beholden to the US (with a relatively large and influential Jewish population) then to France and Russia.

Didn't stop us the first time when Iraq was hitting them with SCUDS.

As far as infastructure, again there is a huge difference between Israel buying weapons from the US and them buying those weapons with money we gave them for free.

We could continue to provide military assistance to Israel just like we did Europe for about 50 years. But if they were a consumer rather than a welfare recipient they wouldn't be obligated to listen to us when we tell them they can't fight or defend themselves when they are still being bombed.

Quoted: Quoted: It's all about oil. We need to keep the ME region stable so we can keep getting the lifeblood (oil) of this nation. Without Israel there to help us keep the region somewhat stable, the Arabs would soon be at war invading and killing each other, blowing up each others oil facilities, which would severly reduce our oil supply and plunge our economy into the worst depression this country has ever seen. Which is why we give Israel money then tell them they can't bomb arabs. Still doesn't seem like a solution though does it?

I would bet we are limiting the Israeli action in the interest of regional stability, to insure we continue to get our uninterrupted oil flow. Allowing Israel to intensify the situation and draw other Arab nations into the conflict, might disrupt our oil supply.

Has Bush Lost His Mind?--

Some of us have been thinking about that for a while now.

<-----Voted for President Bush twice.

Does anyone find it odd that there is no "official" word from our govenment on this?  

All I see is a "unnamed official high in the Israeli Defense Ministry" saying anything about a deadline.

Does anyone have any actual quotes from our government giving specific numbers?

Quoted: Political posturing.

Quoted: How dare GW act in the best interests of the United States?

I think most completely ignored the above.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's all about oil. We need to keep the ME region stable so we can keep getting the lifeblood (oil) of this nation. Without Israel there to help us keep the region somewhat stable, the Arabs would soon be at war invading and killing each other, blowing up each others oil facilities, which would severly reduce our oil supply and plunge our economy into the worst depression this country has ever seen. Which is why we give Israel money then tell them they can't bomb arabs. Still doesn't seem like a solution though does it? I would bet we are limiting the Israeli action in the interest of regional stability, to insure we continue to get our uninterrupted oil flow. Allowing Israel to intensify the situation and draw other Arab nations into the conflict, might disrupt our oil supply.

Still doesn't make it a good idea.

We will limit the conflict and Israels reply. Terrorists will get a spanking and go underground. They will reorganize and pull the same shit all over again. People in Israel will die as a result. Americans in the area will also be targetted, remember why we left Beruit?

And when they pull exactly the same shit again, everyone will KNOW what needs to be done, but nobody will do it. And if Israel tries, we will tell them they can't.

This will be followed by posts such as yours asking them if they are stupid.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It's all about oil. We need to keep the ME region stable so we can keep getting the lifeblood (oil) of this nation. Without Israel there to help us keep the region somewhat stable, the Arabs would soon be at war invading and killing each other, blowing up each others oil facilities, which would severly reduce our oil supply and plunge our economy into the worst depression this country has ever seen. Which is why we give Israel money then tell them they can't bomb arabs. Still doesn't seem like a solution though does it? I would bet we are limiting the Israeli action in the interest of regional stability, to insure we continue to get our uninterrupted oil flow. Allowing Israel to intensify the situation and draw other Arab nations into the conflict, might disrupt our oil supply. Still doesn't make it a good idea. We will limit the conflict and Israels reply. Terrorists will get a spanking and go underground. They will reorganize and pull the same shit all over again. People in Israel will die as a result. Americans in the area will also be targetted, remember why we left Beruit? And when they pull exactly the same shit again, everyone will KNOW what needs to be done, but nobody will do it. And if Israel tries, we will tell them they can't. This will be followed by posts such as yours asking them if they are stupid.

True on all counts.