N.C. wants Smith & Wesson to replace faulty revolvers
The Associated Press
Mar 18, 2006


Faced with problems ranging from misfires to barrels breaking off, the state has asked gun maker Smith & Wesson to replace hundreds of sidearms carried by probation and corrections officers.

None of the revolvers have failed in the line of duty, and for now, the department is keeping the guns in service. But in testing, about one in four revolvers didn't fire when the trigger was pulled. In some cases, the barrel of some models broke off when the gun was fired.

"In one sense it's funny," said Chief Deputy Correction Secretary Dan Stieneke. "In another, it's alarming."

So far, the state Correction Department has asked the Massachusetts-based gun maker to replace only 500 Model 64 revolvers bought in 2004, though there have also been problems with two other models. But officials could wind up asking Smith & Wesson to provide replacements for all 5,000 of the department's revolvers.

At a meeting last month at a shooting range in Smithfield, Smith & Wesson representative got a live demonstration of the problems. During test firing of about three dozen revolvers, four misfired, meaning nothing happened when the trigger was pulled. The barrel also broke off a different model when it was fired, something that has happened 14 times in practice firings since 2003.

"On the one hand, statistically (the revolvers' performance) is not bad, but it's just the safety issue," Stieneke said. "That kind of failure gets people's attention."

Officials at Springfield, Mass.-based Smith & Wesson, one of the world's largest gun makers, did not return repeated calls seeking comment.

For at least two decades, state prison officials have used Smith & Wesson revolvers. They are assigned to probation officers and correction officers who work outside of prison walls, patrolling perimeters and escorting inmates. The guns are not carried by officers who work inside prisons, where there is too great a risk of inmates getting a gun.

The guns cost about $320 each, meaning it would cost the state more than $1.5 million to replace them all. That doesn't include the cost of buying new ammunition, holsters and other accessories, plus retraining officers to use a new model of gun.

"We're at a point where if we have to make a quick switch, it's going to cost millions of dollars, and it's going to take a lot of training and effort to get back up to speed," Stieneke said.

Many law enforcement agencies have moved away from revolvers in recent years, switching to semiautomatic pistols, something Stieneke is considering.


www.newsobserver.com/158/v-print/story/419536.html

They don't make 'em like they used to.



HH

How the hell does a barrel break off like that? Are they made out of plastic?

How in the hell can revolver misfire like that so frequently?
And how in the hell does the barrel break off?
So much for that old saying "revolver reliability"

ATTN: NC Neandertols.....Glocks will cost you about $400 each.

Yea your right, but NC is too damn cheap to change.

And some(not all) are not trained use Glocks.

They dont understand if you pull the trigger it goes bang.

And as everyone knows, some people are not profesional enough to carry Glocks

FREE

Quoted: ATTN: NC Neandertols.....Glocks will cost you about $400 each.

Quoted: How in the hell can revolver misfire like that so frequently?

POut of time.  Stretched frame.  Broken FP.  Broken hammer spring.  Broken transfer bar safety.

And how in the hell does the barrel break off?

I'm wondering about that one myself!!!

 That must be enough of a problem to cause a recall.  What models are affected?  I WAS seriously considering buying an S&W revolver next weekend at the gunshow in Dallas...

Quoted: Quoted: How in the hell can revolver misfire like that so frequently? POut of time.  Stretched frame.  Broken FP.  Broken hammer spring.  Broken transfer bar safety. And how in the hell does the barrel break off? I'm wondering about that one myself!!!

They don't mention the other two models, but I have several that they probably have in addition to the 64.  You could use the barrels for a cheater bar.  What the heck is going on?  Do they have some backyard gunsmith swapping barrels?

BTW: If their corrections revolvers are anything like TDC revolvers, they HAVE been using them as cheater bars.

They're discussing this at the Smith & Wesson forum -
smith-wessonforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/9231047611

Glock Talk has some threads on this topic also.  
This one has photos of S&W revolvers with broken barrels-
glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=6e188d3b50475f73678b8f82926d1893&threadid=509474

Quoted: Quoted: How in the hell can revolver misfire like that so frequently? POut of time.  Stretched frame.  Broken FP.  Broken hammer spring.  Broken transfer bar safety.

These are 38 special "k" frame 2 year old guns.
They should last dozen years.

Give them Ruger GP100s and they will last forever.   Solid SS frames and thick barrels.  

If SW cant make a decent revolver, its basically done as a major player in the handgun market if it hasnt happened already.

Quoted: Give them Ruger GP100s and they will last forever.   Solid SS frames and thick barrels.   If SW cant make a decent revolver, its basically done as a major player in the handgun market if it hasnt happened already.

GP100s last, surely longer than 2 year old S&Ws it appears. BUT I did witness a barrel shear off the frame of a GP100 and go downrange. The GP100 was several years old and had tens of thousands of rounds through it. Stuff does break but these new S&Ws have issues

What's the construction of these?

The pics on Glocktalk look like one of the cleanest breaks I've ever seen.

glocktalk.com/attachment.php?s=c8b76cedf51fd195980b4dc6b7187465&postid=5869586


That's not right at all.

And people wonder why I buy OLD revolvers when I buy them?

I'd personally like to know what is being shot thru them tho. Makes one wonder.

Looked at the pics, very interesting. Every one broke in the same exact place. That is probably not ammo related but a flaw in the gun itself. I wonder if the threads are cut short and pushing against  the frame somehow, causing it to break over time?

WTF, what kind of loads are they shooting out of these guns?

Any weapon is a mechanical device and can fail but the number of rounds between failures should be relatively high.

I cant imagine a gun failing after that few round or years of use.

They better replace them or the lawsuits alone will shut them down.

Without getting first hand information about it... I don't trust everything I read online... even from a news site.

I've have 29, 60, & 586... all are great with 1000's of rounds through them without issue.  Now they may not make them like they used too... but to said that the barrel falls off, I question it

Just my opinion...

~nb  

Quoted: What's the construction of these? The pics on Glocktalk look like one of the cleanest breaks I've ever seen. glocktalk.com/attachment.php?s=c8b76cedf51fd195980b4dc6b7187465&postid=5869586 That's not right at all.

I think the guy talking about overtorquing barrels into the frame is on to something.  I seem to remember a rifle manufacturer years ago that did the same thing with the same results.  I'll bet you they use a hydraulic press to do that.

Quoted: And people wonder why I buy OLD revolvers when I buy them? I'd personally like to know what is being shot thru them tho. Makes one wonder. Looked at the pics, very interesting. Every one broke in the same exact place. That is probably not ammo related but a flaw in the gun itself. I wonder if the threads are cut short and pushing against  the frame somehow, causing it to break over time?

Big + 1
Older revolvers is the only way to go.
Everything nowadays is made in taiwan and brazil.

I've actually seen an S&W lose it's barrel when fired.

It broke off just ahead of the frame where the barrel threads in, could have been caused by a stress fracture.

The gun was a rental gun at an indoor shooting range, was a 357Mag like a 686.   Barrel steel looked terrible where the fracture occured, looked more like cheap pot metal it was so rough.

Was surprising and shocking to see some person come in with a frame in one hand and a barrel in the other.

I think I'll stick to my classic old N-frames that are 20 years or older.

Quoted: I think the guy talking about overtorquing barrels into the frame is on to something.  I seem to remember a rifle manufacturer years ago that did the same thing with the same results.  I'll bet you they use a hydraulic press to do that.

That is very possible... wrong setting on the hydraulic pres or something.  
But what about problems of failure to fire?

Well, they did buy 5,000 pistols.  There is bound to be a some faulty ones in the bunch.  S&W needs to step up to the plate and correct this problem.

Quoted: Well, they did buy 5,000 pistols.  There is bound to be a some faulty ones in the bunch.  S&W needs to step up to the plate and correct this problem.

The photos I posted came from a range...

They had about 10 of the guns. Three of them broke like this. One on the fourth round it had ever fired.

Read the links.

I was getting ready to call BS but then saw the pics.  If this is for real, SW should do a mass recall.

Smith And Fucking Wesson. Revolvers.

Dear God, can't we do anything right anymore? This is depressing!

at least SW has got the 1911 right...

If NC is anything like SC, they have hundreds of correctional officers  going thru training in a months time. All of them must qualify and requalify at intervals. I'm not a bit surprised that here are failures. The ammo is from the lowest bidder.  I don't doubt the failures pictured, but lets wait until the cause is determined before blaming S&W. I'd bet it's ammo related for the most part and abuse by the idiots that are using them. S&W may well have a few bad guns there also.

Quoted: How in the hell can revolver misfire like that so frequently? And how in the hell does the barrel break off? So much for that old saying "revolver reliability"

They may have played with the Mainspring Strain Screw it can cause misfires if you mess with it

Quoted: Yea your right, but NC is too damn cheap to change. And some(not all) are not trained use Glocks. They dont understand if you pull the trigger it goes bang. And as everyone knows, some people are not profesional enough to carry Glocks FREE Quoted: ATTN: NC Neandertols.....Glocks will cost you about $400 each.

free you near fort bragg right.


right down the road from you where im at in sanford nc our local cops use glocks the brand new ones glock 37 or 38s.

the sherrifs department here  uses sigs or glocks.


and most of our cops have ars in their cars.

Hmmmmm, now what's that company with the lifetime guarantee on their guns, oh yeah Taurus...

Quoted: at least SW has got the 1911 right...

They had problems with them also when they first came out.

Speculation...  At first I was inclined to ask who the armorer was for the agency who's guns are failing.  But then I saw the breaks, and that's not sloppy gunsmithing.

Glad my Smiths are all old ones just in case the plant is having Margarita Fridays during lunch on the last day of the week.

Pretty scary stuff.

John

Quoted: home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TAG.JPG

Okay, this is the second time I've seen you use this picture with no text. What in the hell does it mean?

Quoted: These are 38 special "k" frame 2 year old guns. They should last dozen years a couple of decades.

MY K frames are still running strong.

Quoted: If NC is anything like SC, they have hundreds of correctional officers  going thru training in a months time. All of them must qualify and requalify at intervals. I'm not a bit surprised that here are failures. The ammo is from the lowest bidder.  I don't doubt the failures pictured, but lets wait until the cause is determined before blaming S&W. I'd bet it's ammo related for the most part and abuse by the idiots that are using them. S&W may well have a few bad guns there also.

After seeing thos pictures, no ammount of crappy ammo and officer abuse can account for those kinds of breakages.

Quoted: Quoted: home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TAG.JPG Okay, this is the second time I've seen you use this picture with no text. What in the hell does it mean?

do you see in the pics title? it's called tag, as in the guy is tagging the thread


I would be willing to bet that they're over torqeing the Bbl when they're attaching it.

Quoted: Model 64 revolvers bought in 2004

 Revolvers?  In 2004?   For gawd's sake, WHY?  

Quoted: Quoted: Model 64 revolvers bought in 2004  Revolvers?  In 2004?   For gawd's sake, WHY?

KISS?

I was surprised to see revolvers still being issued too. Maybe they have an old guard armorer who doesn't trust pistols.

Quoted: KISS? I was surprised to see revolvers still being issued too. Maybe they have an old guard armorer who doesn't trust pistols.

KISS?


Well, I know more than one person with a revolver that locked up and had to be taken to a Smith for repairs.

On the other hand, I've never had any of my semi-auto's needing a gunsmith.........  YMMV

tag

I wonder if they are making those barrels out of wheel weights???  

That's one hell of a way to make an ultra compact snubby!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TAG.JPG Okay, this is the second time I've seen you use this picture with no text. What in the hell does it mean? do you see in the pics title? it's called tag, as in the guy is tagging the thread I would be willing to bet that they're over torqeing the Bbl when they're attaching it.

No, didn't see the pic's title. Cute. I guess the writing on the tag threw me off the track.

wow.

Quoted: Quoted: home.triad.rr.com/txgp17/images/TAG.JPG Okay, this is the second time I've seen you use this picture with no text. What in the hell does it mean?

That's kewl bill, I saw people do it a couple of times before I caught on.

ANd I'm looking for a 3" Model 65 too.

Thank goodness I want one without that horrid trigger lock!

Quoted: How in the hell can revolver misfire like that so frequently? And how in the hell does the barrel break off? So much for that old saying "revolver reliability"

The older S&W revolvers are superb.

You basically cannot buy a better firearm than a pre 1990 S&W revolver.

they had the manufacture down to a science.

they are basically one of the best american products ever made (for the money)

if you get the chance, try an older smith revolver.  the trigger is way better than what is usually found on an autoloader.

revolvers are typically much stronger and more accurate than a similar autoloader.  also, they cost less.

i had a smith and wesson model 27 large frame 357  that was basically a work of art.  it had a blue job that literally glowed, the trigger broke like glass, the fit and finish was perfect, and it would group about 2.5" at 50 yards.  no shit.  

i like autoloaders too, but there are definite advantages to revolvers

sucks that they are making shit nowadays.  oh well, another excellent american company bites the dust.

Quoted: Quoted: Model 64 revolvers bought in 2004  Revolvers?  In 2004?   For gawd's sake, WHY?

the last year that the NYPD used 38 spl smiths, they killed 60 bad guys and didn't lose a single man.  

maybe autoloaders aren't absolutely necessary for EVERY application?