Murtha says we will leave Iraq because Army is "broken, worn out"

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Murtha says we will leave Iraq because Army is "broken, worn out" (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 12/1/2005 9:54:04 AM EDT

Murtha Says Army Is 'Broken, Worn Out'

LATROBE, Pa. - Most U.S. troops will leave Iraq within a year because the Army is "broken, worn out" and "living hand to mouth," Rep. John Murtha told a civic group. Two weeks ago, Murtha created a storm of comment when he called for U.S. troops to leave Iraq now. The Democratic congressman spoke to a group of community and business leaders in Latrobe on Wednesday, the same day President Bush said troops would be withdrawn when they've achieved victory, not under an artificial deadline set by politicians.

Murtha predicted most troops will be out of Iraq within a year

"I predict he'll make it look like we're staying the course," Murtha said, referring to Bush. "Staying the course is not a policy."

Murtha, 73, the ranking Democrat on the House Appropriations defense subcommittee, expressed pessimism about Iraq's stability and said the Iraqis know who the insurgents are, but don't always share that information with U.S. troops. He said a civil war is likely because of ongoing factionalism among Sunni Arabs, and Kurds and Shiites.

He also said he was wrong to vote to support the war.

"I admit I made a mistake when I voted for war," Murtha said. "I'm looking at the future of the United States military."

Murtha, a decorated Vietnam war veteran, said the Pennsylvania National Guard is "stretched so thin" that it won't be able to send fully equipped units to Iraq next year. Murtha predicted it will cost $50 billion to upgrade military equipment nationwide, but says the federal government is already reducing future purchases to save money.

Murtha, who represents a western Pennsylvania district that includes Latrobe, was first elected to Congress in 1974.

Lt. Col. Chris Cleaver, spokesman for the Pennsylvania National Guard at Fort Indiantown Gap, said "there are some deployment concerns."

Cleaver said some guard units had to leave equipment in Iraq when they returned to the United States, which could cause training problems here.

But Cleaver also said most of the 2,100 Guard troops now deployed with the 2nd Brigade Combat Team can't be sent back to Iraq for a second tour of duty anyway, because of regulations that limit redeployment.

And there was much rejoicing among the terrorists - thank you John Murtha.

Posted: 12/1/2005 9:57:14 AM EDT

[#1]

It's too bad that his senility and mental disorder have to be so public. A man and his family should have privacy to deal with these debillitating issues.

Posted: 12/1/2005 9:58:46 AM EDT

[#2]

I don't care what he did in his past....he sounds like an asshat now.

Fuck him...

Posted: 12/1/2005 9:59:36 AM EDT

[#3]

But remember! He supports the TROOPS!

Fucking asshat!

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:01:14 AM EDT

[#4]

What if it's all true?

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:03:02 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted: It's too bad that his senility and mental disorder have to be so public.

According to that article, he was first elected in the 1970's and he's in his 70's now! He should've been put out to pasture.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:03:44 AM EDT

[#6]

JOHN kerry
JOHN glenn
JOHN murtha
JOHN mccain
JOHN

hmmmmmmmmmm....................... they're all johns........I'm seeing a pattern here.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:05:12 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
What if it's all true?

The "living hand to mouth" and needs $50B in upgrades are things that HE, as a appropriations committee member, can fix.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:09:48 AM EDT

[#8]

Well, I cut the guy some slack before but if he really said that, he is an asshat of the first order.

Sounds like he is beginning to act like the moonbats, intoxicated with a little attention.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:11:05 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
What if it's all true?

Assuming it's true (which is assuming a complete falsehood) - he should NOT be publically proclaiming such information IN A TIME OF WAR!!!!

Even if he had a letter signed by every officer in Iraq saying that the Army was "broken, worn out" - you do NOT go and disseminate ANY kind of weaknesses about our military IN A TIME OF WAR for our enemy to hear and take advantage of!!!

LOOSE LIPS SINK SHIPS!!

In other words...

RECKLESS WORDS GET OUR TROOPS KILLED!

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:11:42 AM EDT

[#10]

aww come on this guy is a hawk

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:14:53 AM EDT

[#11]

+1 He Is very RECKLESS, He must be ANTI-AMERICAN

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:15:45 AM EDT

[#12]

Officially, now, he is a asshat. You don't say those types of things in public being the "ranking Democrat" on the House Appropriations defense subcommittee.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:16:08 AM EDT

[#13]

Murtha.....is a pussy.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:30:35 AM EDT

[#14]

Murtha is a retired marine. He always has been a friend of the military, this isn't Teddy Kennedy we're talking about.

He's advocating moving troops to surrounding countries, like Afghanistan and Kuwait, and striking terrorist targets of opportunity in Iraq while allowing the Iraqis to stand on their own, because he believes our occupation is feeding the insurgency.

It isn't any secret Iraq has seriously degraded our readiness equipment-wise, sand isn't good for machinery. Recruitment is weak, etc.

He may be right, may not be, but it's wrong to demean him just because he disagrees with you.

He's a patriot, advocating what he believes is a better strategy.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:32:51 AM EDT

[#15]

Its sad to watch this once great warrior spiriling into alzhiemer's demensia with a full press coverage.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:39:24 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
JOHN kerry
JOHN glenn
JOHN murtha
JOHN www.madlantern.com/clipart/clips/technology/toilet.gif

hmmmmmmmmmm....................... they're all johns........I'm seeing a pattern here.

John McCain

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:40:39 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
He's a patriot, advocating what he believes is a better strategy.

Yeah and another "war-hero' by the name of Benedict Arnold became a traitor because of, in his words, "love to my country" also.

Being a retired Marine doesn't excuse actions which ONLY serve to embolden our enemy in war.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:41:51 AM EDT

[#18]

I am ashamed that that man is a fellow Marine.

One of those pics has nothing to due with Murtha, btw..

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:42:36 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Murtha is a retired marine. He always has been a friend of the military, this isn't Teddy Kennedy we're talking about.

He's advocating moving troops to surrounding countries, like Afghanistan and Kuwait, and striking terrorist targets of opportunity in Iraq while allowing the Iraqis to stand on their own, because he believes our occupation is feeding the insurgency.

It isn't any secret Iraq has seriously degraded our readiness equipment-wise, sand isn't good for machinery. Recruitment is weak, etc.

He may be right, may not be, but it's wrong to demean him just because he disagrees with you.

He's a patriot, advocating what he believes is a better strategy.

ummm..... WE ARE AMERICA!! If the equipment is getting worn out....BUILD MORE... REPLACE IT... for shitsake, DON'T TELL THE ENEMY.

A better strategy would be for Murtha to SHUT THE FUCK UP and VOTE for new weapons and to redirect tax money from ART programs to MILITARY programs.

FUCK Murtha and his goddamn cronies. Who gives a fuck if he was a Marine.... It is too bad that the VC were not a better shot just for that moment......

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:43:05 AM EDT

[#20]

"Staying the course is not a policy."

What kind of fucked up remark is that?????????? What an asshole.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:44:18 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Murtha is a retired marine. He always has been a friend of the military, this isn't Teddy Kennedy we're talking about.

He's advocating moving troops to surrounding countries, like Afghanistan and Kuwait, and striking terrorist targets of opportunity in Iraq while allowing the Iraqis to stand on their own, because he believes our occupation is feeding the insurgency.

It isn't any secret Iraq has seriously degraded our readiness equipment-wise, sand isn't good for machinery. Recruitment is weak, etc.
He may be right, may not be, but it's wrong to demean him just because he disagrees with you.

He's a patriot, advocating what he believes is a better strategy.

According to whom, the demonrats and their followers?

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:49:35 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
"Staying the course is not a policy."

What kind of fucked up remark is that?????????? What an asshole.

Duh, it is what Washington, Madison, Lincoln, McKinley, Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman all said and that is why we won the Revolution, the War of 1812, the North won the Civil War, The Spanish-American War, WW1 and WW2.

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:49:43 AM EDT

[#23]

I agree with I think he is the one that is broken, worn out and should be put out to pasture.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:54:09 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"Staying the course is not a policy."

What kind of fucked up remark is that?????????? What an asshole.

Duh, it is what Washington, Madison, Lincoln, McKinley, Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman all said and that is why we won the Revolution, the War of 1812, the North won the Civil War, The Spanish-American War, WW1 and WW2.

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

They said that "staying the course is NOT a policy"?

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:55:45 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Murtha Says Army Is 'Broken, Worn Out'
.......
Murtha, a decorated Vietnam war veteran, said the Pennsylvania National Guard is "stretched so thin" that it won't be able to send fully equipped units to Iraq next year. Murtha predicted it will cost $50 billion to upgrade military equipment nationwide, but says the federal government is already reducing future purchases to save money.
......

I've been sayingall along we're going to lose this war because we'll simply go bankrupt fighting it.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:55:55 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Staying the course is not a policy."

What kind of fucked up remark is that?????????? What an asshole.

Duh, it is what Washington, Madison, Lincoln, McKinley, Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman all said and that is why we won the Revolution, the War of 1812, the North won the Civil War, The Spanish-American War, WW1 and WW2.

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

They said that "staying the course is NOT a policy"?

Sorry, trying to use sarcasm.....

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:56:39 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Staying the course is not a policy."

What kind of fucked up remark is that?????????? What an asshole.

Duh, it is what Washington, Madison, Lincoln, McKinley, Wilson, Roosevelt, Truman all said and that is why we won the Revolution, the War of 1812, the North won the Civil War, The Spanish-American War, WW1 and WW2.

DUH!!!!!!!!!!!

They said that "staying the course is NOT a policy"?

Sorry, trying to use sarcasm.....

Oops.

Posted: 12/1/2005 10:57:42 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Murtha Says Army Is 'Broken, Worn Out'
.......
Murtha, a decorated Vietnam war veteran, said the Pennsylvania National Guard is "stretched so thin" that it won't be able to send fully equipped units to Iraq next year. Murtha predicted it will cost $50 billion to upgrade military equipment nationwide, but says the federal government is already reducing future purchases to save money.
......

I've been sayingall along we're going to lose this war because we'll simply go bankrupt fighting it.

Probably because the cock-block voted against military spending..... Not to be dumb, but if we have to fight the Chinese, what the fuck will we do then?

We are fighting an insurgent war with 150,000 troops in theater.... What happens if we have to deploy a MILLION troops to a theater?

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:00:02 AM EDT

[#29]

"War is less costly than servitude. The choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." -Jean Dutourd

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:06:40 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Murtha Says Army Is 'Broken, Worn Out'Murtha predicted it will cost $50 billion to upgrade military equipment nationwide, but says the federal government is already reducing future purchases to save money.

Gee, I guess that explains why we are still on OT & Saturdays cranking out HMMWVs like a raped ape.

Could have fooled me.
I call

.

Dig it deeper, Old Man, Dig it deeper.

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:08:06 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Murtha Says Army Is 'Broken, Worn Out'
.......
Murtha, a decorated Vietnam war veteran, said the Pennsylvania National Guard is "stretched so thin" that it won't be able to send fully equipped units to Iraq next year. Murtha predicted it will cost $50 billion to upgrade military equipment nationwide, but says the federal government is already reducing future purchases to save money.
......

I've been sayingall along we're going to lose this war because we'll simply go bankrupt fighting it.

Probably because the cock-block voted against military spending..... Not to be dumb, but if we have to fight the Chinese, what the fuck will we do then?

We are fighting an insurgent war with 150,000 troops in theater.... What happens if we have to deploy a MILLION troops to a theater?

And had he voted for the spending, where would it have come from? Cut other programs? Raise taxes? Maybe tax fuel like the UK, we can pay 5 bucks a gallon. Or cut highway funding, watch our roads go to shit. Maybe cut welfare or SS? Or just do what we always do, and just keeping spending money we dont have and run the country even further into debt and pay the piper later?

I'm all for equipping our military but for fucks sake, whos going to pay the bill when it comes?

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:11:09 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Murtha.....is a pussy.

there you have it folks...hes a giant loose pussy

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:16:35 AM EDT

[#33]

And you hear not a word in the pres about Joe Lieberman...

but there's no bias

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:21:36 AM EDT

[#34]

Although I disagree with Murtha, it is no grounds to disrespect a man who has spent his life fighting for his country. You say he is a "pussy", i ask you when was the last time you fought for something you believed in or stood up for what you believe.

Dont get me wrong I believe we owe it not only to the iraq civillians but to the men and women on the ground to finish the mission and kill as many of those facist ----- as possible.

PJ

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:29:18 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

And had he voted for the spending, where would it have come from? Cut other programs? Raise taxes? Maybe tax fuel like the UK, we can pay 5 bucks a gallon. Or cut highway funding, watch our roads go to shit. Maybe cut welfare or SS? Or just do what we always do, and just keeping spending money we dont have and run the country even further into debt and pay the piper later?

I'm all for equipping our military but for fucks sake, whos going to pay the bill when it comes?

God Yes, Cut the hell out of other programs. How much government spending is wasted on Welfare, Bottles of urine with Jesus in it, studies about the spotted owl, federal aid to illegal aliens and every other bullshit program that gets put into place or tacked on to bills that need to pass.

All I want the feds to do is keep the highways nice, protect our borders and kill terrorists.

Right now the defense budget is about 10 percent of the Federal budget. In the 1950's and 1960s it was over 50%. Did we go bankrupt then? No, we did not waste taxpayer money on bullshit programs and "gubmint jobs"

ETA::: Correct me if I am wrong, but when the military BUYS things from AMERICAN businesses, isn't American tax money ACTUALLY getting pumped back into the Economy creating worthwhile jobs for Americans while providing war material for our troops overseas? It is not like the money is disappearing.

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:32:33 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:

And had he voted for the spending, where would it have come from? Cut other programs? Raise taxes? Maybe tax fuel like the UK, we can pay 5 bucks a gallon. Or cut highway funding, watch our roads go to shit. Maybe cut welfare or SS? Or just do what we always do, and just keeping spending money we dont have and run the country even further into debt and pay the piper later?

I'm all for equipping our military but for fucks sake, whos going to pay the bill when it comes?

God Yes, Cut the hell out of other programs. How much government spending is wasted on Welfare, Bottles of urine with Jesus in it, studies about the spotted owl, federal aid to illegal aliens and every other bullshit program that gets put into place or tacked on to bills that need to pass.

All I want the feds to do is keep the highways nice, protect our borders and kill terrorists.

Right now the defense budget is about 10 percent of the Federal budget. In the 1950's and 1960s it was over 50%. Did we go bankrupt then? No, we did not waste taxpayer money on bullshit programs and "gubmint jobs"

And in the 50's and 60's was our deficit what it is today?

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:33:51 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted: Although I disagree with Murtha, it is no grounds to disrespect a man who has spent his life fighting for his country.

I'm not too familiar with his military and political career, but I get the feeling that his time as a Libtard are negating his time as a soldier.

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:34:15 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
And had he voted for the spending, where would it have come from? Cut other programs? Raise taxes? Maybe tax fuel like the UK, we can pay 5 bucks a gallon. Or cut highway funding, watch our roads go to shit. Maybe cut welfare or SS? Or just do what we always do, and just keeping spending money we dont have and run the country even further into debt and pay the piper later?

I'm all for equipping our military but for fucks sake, whos going to pay the bill when it comes?

Ummm, yes, cut the shit out of welfare, foodstamps, etc. Give it only to the truly needy. If you are able to work...no welfare for you.

Stop giving aid to other countries. Fuck them, we shouldn't be handing out free money to those assholes anyway, other countries always hate us anyway.

Money for art...sorry no...if your art isn't good enough to earn enough to keep you doing it, tough shit...learn to put bolts into holes or some shit, we don't need to support you.

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:35:50 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted: And in the 50's and 60's was our deficit what it is today?

If you ask that question you should clarify in terms of adjusted dollars, percentage of GDP, etc. Be careful though, the data might not support you.

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:36:07 AM EDT

[#40]

kill-9 says, "Murtha is broken, worn out" and "living foot in mouth".

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:36:25 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

And had he voted for the spending, where would it have come from? Cut other programs? Raise taxes? Maybe tax fuel like the UK, we can pay 5 bucks a gallon. Or cut highway funding, watch our roads go to shit. Maybe cut welfare or SS? Or just do what we always do, and just keeping spending money we dont have and run the country even further into debt and pay the piper later?

I'm all for equipping our military but for fucks sake, whos going to pay the bill when it comes?

God Yes, Cut the hell out of other programs. How much government spending is wasted on Welfare, Bottles of urine with Jesus in it, studies about the spotted owl, federal aid to illegal aliens and every other bullshit program that gets put into place or tacked on to bills that need to pass.

All I want the feds to do is keep the highways nice, protect our borders and kill terrorists.

Right now the defense budget is about 10 percent of the Federal budget. In the 1950's and 1960s it was over 50%. Did we go bankrupt then? No, we did not waste taxpayer money on bullshit programs and "gubmint jobs"

And in the 50's and 60's was our deficit what it is today?

Until the mid 50's total debt as a percent of GDP was higher than today. In 1950 debt as a percent of GDP was over 70%. In 1946 it was over 120% of GDP.

Posted: 12/1/2005 11:58:30 AM EDT

[#42]

Specop,

It isn't that we're going to lose the war.

Its that there's nothing for us to win.

I honestly don't know what the best course is at this point, and I don't think anyone else does either. There are no good options. A debate about the best course is to be expected.

I don't believe those in favor of this mission expected to be spending US blood and treasure arming and training the army of a nation that codifies Sharia law in its constitution, but here we are, trying to build a nation out of tribes hostile to each other, and to us.

I've always thought Iraq was a huge strategic mistake, not only in the WOT, but also the political war at home.

GWB rode the conservative revolution into power, and then rode it into the ground over Iraq. I truly expected the conservatives to hold power in DC for a generation, it took remarkable foolishness to lose all that momentum, even after 9/11.

It is not treason for a congressman to question, nor for a citizen. We do not have the political will to stay in Iraq for a generation, nor is there any evidence doing so would result in a democracy friendly to our interests.

If the military wanted soldiers to have an opinion they'd have issued them one,
I don't find Rumsfelds opinion any more credible than Murthas, nor do I find the conservative media any more credible than the liberal on Iraq.

These are serious times, the republic faces many challenges.

What a clusterf*ck.

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:28:51 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
What if it's all true?

What if I am the Queen of England?

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:28:53 PM EDT

[#44]

I think it's generally acknowledge that the military, particularly the reserve forces, will be recovering from this op for a few years once it's over.

I don't agree that the Army's condition will force a premature withdrawl, but equipment will need repairing/replacing, and enlistment numbers will have to come back up.

NTM

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:33:14 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted: What if it's all true?
What if I am the Queen of England?

Now that's a classic arfcom response!

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:34:21 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
What if it's all true?

What if I am the Queen of England?

You are?

Does Andy know this?

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:42:28 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Specop,

It isn't that we're going to lose the war.

Its that there's nothing for us to win.

I honestly don't know what the best course is at this point, and I don't think anyone else does either. There are no good options. A debate about the best course is to be expected.

I don't believe those in favor of this mission expected to be spending US blood and treasure arming and training the army of a nation that codifies Sharia law in its constitution, but here we are, trying to build a nation out of tribes hostile to each other, and to us.

I've always thought Iraq was a huge strategic mistake, not only in the WOT, but also the political war at home.

GWB rode the conservative revolution into power, and then rode it into the ground over Iraq. I truly expected the conservatives to hold power in DC for a generation, it took remarkable foolishness to lose all that momentum, even after 9/11.

It is not treason for a congressman to question, nor for a citizen. We do not have the political will to stay in Iraq for a generation, nor is there any evidence doing so would result in a democracy friendly to our interests.

If the military wanted soldiers to have an opinion they'd have issued them one,
I don't find Rumsfelds opinion any more credible than Murthas, nor do I find the conservative media any more credible than the liberal on Iraq.

These are serious times, the republic faces many challenges.

What a clusterf*ck.

+100

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:44:55 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
And you hear not a word in the pres about Joe Lieberman...

but there's no bias

Loserman is not, never has been and never will be credible on Iraq, or anything else that even remotely involves the middle east.

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:45:45 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What if it's all true?

What if I am the Queen of England?

You are?

Does Andy know this?

Andy's just mad because he wanted to be the only queen in England...

Posted: 12/1/2005 12:46:20 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
And you hear not a word in the pres about Joe Lieberman...

but there's no bias

Loserman is not, never has been and never will be credible on Iraq, or anything else that even remotely involves the middle east.

I disagree. Lieberman is very good on foreign policy for a Democrat.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Murtha says we will leave Iraq because Army is "broken, worn out" (Page 1 of 3)

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