AR's jam ... no shi%!!      249's jam.. no shi%                                m14 and 45 all the way back into service

Here it is:


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I thought you might like this.

The information below if from a friend of mine who knows the writer. Jordan
is his son. Feel free to pass it along.

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Hello to all my fellow gunners, military buffs, veterans and interested
guys. A couple of weekends ago I got to spend time with my son Jordan, who
was on his first leave since returning from Iraq. He is well (a little
thin), and already bored. He will be returning to Iraq for a second tour in
early '06 and has already re-enlisted early for 4 more years. He loves the
Marine Corps and is actually looking forward to returning to Iraq.



Jordan spent 7 months at "Camp Blue Diamond" in Ramadi. Aka: Fort Apache.
He saw and did a lot and the following is what he told me about weapons,
equipment, tactics and other miscellaneous info which may be of interest to
you. Nothing is by any means classified. No politics here, just a Marine
with a bird's eye view's opinions:



1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum
powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel
filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is
more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems
also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and
weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in
a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor
penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso
hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. Fun fact: Random
autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use.



2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): 223 cal. Drum fed light machine
gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of . Chronic
jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that's fun in
the middle of a firefight).



3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert
environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for
self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad
guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.



4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for
clearing houses to good effect.



5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!).
Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down.
Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being
dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up
the structure over there.



6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. "Ma deuce" is
still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper,
puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon
in-theater.



7) The 45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there.
Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one.
With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put 'em down with a torso
hit. The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the
HK military model and supposedly love it. The old government model .45's
are being re-issued en masse.



8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a
modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight
Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the
sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round.



9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and
accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle
suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy.
Definitely here to stay.



10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win
mag. Heavily modified Remington 700's. Great performance. Snipers have
been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his
third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record
for confirmed kills with OVER 100.



11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and
can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an
AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot as to wear, almost unbearable in the
summer heat (which averages over 120 degrees). Also, the enemy now goes for
head shots whenever possible. All the bull about the "old" body armor
making our guys vulnerable to the IED's was a non-starter. The IED
explosions are enormous and body armor doesn't make any difference at all in
most cases.



12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment: Thumbs way up. Spectacular
performance. Our guys see in the dark and own the night, period. Very
little enemy action after evening prayers. More and more enemy being
whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams. We've all seen
the videos.



13) Lights: Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal lights are
Surefire's, and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban operations.
Jordan carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved it.



I cant help but notice that most of the good fighting weapons and ordnance
are 50 or more years old!!!!!!!!! With all our technology, it's the WWII
and Vietnam era weapons that everybody wants!!!! The infantry fighting is
frequent, up close and brutal. No quarter is given or shown.



Bad guy weapons:



1) Mostly AK47's The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the
desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed
light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly
shoots like . Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they
are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles.
(Iran, again) Fun fact: Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the
marksmanship of our guys and how hard they fight. They are apparently told
in Jihad school that the Americans rely solely on technology, and can be
easily beaten in close quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's
just say they know better now.



2) The RPG: Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys. Simple,
reliable and as common as dog. The enemy responded to our up-armored
humvees by aiming at the windshields, often at point blank range. Still
killing a lot of our guys.



3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet
anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordan's
area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery
shells and wire them together. Most were detonated by cell phone, and the
explosions are enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1 tank.
Driving is by far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there. Lately,
they are much more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian) specifically
designed to penetrate armor. Fact: Most of the ready made IED's are
supplied by Iran, who is also providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to
train the insurgents in their use and tactics. That's why the attacks have
been so deadly lately. Their concealment methods are ingenious, the latest
being shape charges in Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the
cinderblocks that litter all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they
detonate, and the bomb disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.



4) Mortars and rockets: Very prevalent. The soviet era 122mm rockets
(with an 18km range) are becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan's NCO's
lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the wire".
Jordan's base was hit almost daily his entire time there by mortar and
rocket fire, often at night to disrupt sleep patterns and cause fatigue (It
did). More of a psychological weapon than anything else. The enemy mortar
teams would jump out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then haul ass in a
matter of seconds.



5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by
cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld
GPS units for navigation and "Google earth" for overhead views of our
positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their
explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare.
They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and
laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.



Who are the bad guys?:



Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda group. They operate
mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These are mostly
"foreigners", non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the Muslim world
(and Europe). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course, the knowledge
and complicity of the Syrian govt.) , and then travel down the "rat line"
which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we've been
hitting hard for the last few months. Some are virtually untrained young
Jihadists that often end up as suicide bombers or in "sacrifice squads".
Most, however, are hard core terrorists from all the usual suspects (Al
Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.) These are the guys running around murdering
civilians en masse and cutting heads off. The Chechens (many of whom are
Caucasian), are supposedly the most ruthless and the best fighters. (they
have been fighting the Russians for years). In the Baghdad area and south,
most of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and led) Iraqi Shiites. The
Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating the Iraqi local govt.'s,
the police forces and the Army. The have had a massive spy and agitator
network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 80's. Most of the
Saddam loyalists were killed, captured or gave up long ago.



Bad Guy Tactics:



When they are engaged on an infantry level they get their asses kicked every
time. Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type charges were very common
earlier in the war and still occur. They will literally sacrifice 8-10 man
teams in suicide squads by sending them screaming and firing Ak's and RPG's
directly at our bases just to probe the defenses. They get mowed down like
grass every time. ( see the M2 and M240 above). Jordan's base was hit like
this often. When engaged, they have a tendency to flee to the same
building, probably for what they think will be a glorious last stand.
Instead, we call in air and that's the end of that more often than not.
These hole-ups are referred to as Alpha Whiskey Romeo's (Allah's Waiting
Room). We have the laser guided ground-air thing down to a science. The
fast mover's, mostly Marine F-18's, are taking an ever increasing toll on
the enemy. When caught out in the open, the helicopter gunships and AC-130
Spectre gunships cut them to ribbons with cannon and rocket fire, especially
at night. Interestingly, artillery is hardly used at all. Fun fact: The
enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50 thousand. That is why we're
seeing less and less infantry attacks and more IED, suicide bomber .
The new strategy is simple: attrition.



The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian
non-combatants as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian
casualties and therefore schools, hospitals and (especially) Mosques are
locations where they meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons and ammo and
flee to when engaged. They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for
civilian casualties. They will terrorize locals and murder without
hesitation anyone believed to be sympathetic to the Americans or the new
Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family members (especially children) is common to
influence people they are trying to influence but cant reach, such as local
govt. officials, clerics, tribal leaders, etc.).



The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured". They know that
if captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet. Zarqawi
openly offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American serviceman.
This motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a about
the war. A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped by common
criminals and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight is to the
death. Surrender is not an option.



The Iraqi's are a mixed bag. Some fight well, others aren't worth a .
Most do okay with American support. Finding leaders is hard, but they are
getting better. It is widely viewed that Zarqawi's use of suicide bombers,
en masse, against the civilian population was a serious tactical mistake.
Many Iraqi's were galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the
police forces went up, along with their motivation. It also led to an
exponential increase in good intel because the Iraqi's are sick of the
insurgent attacks against civilians. The Kurds are solidly pro-American and
fearless fighters.



According to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only
believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are
stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they
almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are
despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1
and then see like "Are we losing in Iraq" on TV and the print media.
For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food and
leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, there are not enough
guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency,
primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the
borders with Iran and Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand
the thought of Iraq being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US
bases there).



Anyway guys, that's it, hope you found it interesting, I sure did.

Its official  ? Its official internet and you should believe all the internet.

Do you work for HK?

Good article, basically agrees with everything I have heard from guys coming back.

The one thing they ALL mention, is how disgusted they are with the media reporting. They all feel they are kicking ass and doing well over there, then they come home and see the assholes in the press and their BS stories...they just don't understand it....

Curious what the source of this is.  WHo is Jordan, what branch and where is he?

ETA:  FWIW, dpmmn sent a bunch of bottles of Militec over there to his bro-in-law and his buddies because of the sand.  CLP does NOT work at all.  That may be more of the problem with the weapons than their "poor design"  (except the M9)

This is a very tired subject.

Jordan sure seems to write well and in volume for a kid just back from Iraq.

G

Quoted: The one thing they ALL mention, is how disgusted they are with the media reporting. They all feel they are kicking ass and doing well over there, then they come home and see the assholes in the press and their BS stories...they just don't understand it....

Makes me wish some returning divisional formation would take a detour with their gear and storm CNN headquarters or the NYT building.

Reading comprehension mother f'ers, do you have it?

Read the first paragraph, it is being written by this Jordans father, and the kid is a Marine...

That's not what Rusted ace said.
Sounds like bs to me.

I'm not even dupe police


DUPE


i'm tired of seeing this

Most Marine Corps M-249s were in really bad shape foe OIF I. More than one was held together with zip ties.

Quoted: Good article, basically agrees with everything I have heard from guys coming back.

Funny it doesn't jive at all with what the vets I talked to say.

We have some guys on here that have been/currently in Iraq and they don't seem to agree.

BTW 5th post of this on ARFCOM today, so far that I've been able to find....

Oh and since when does the USMC have ANY M24s (hin the M24 is a US Army sniper rifle - it's a match type M14 and it ONLY comes in 7.62 NATO).... Correct for my mistake.

Quoted: Quoted: Good article, basically agrees with everything I have heard from guys coming back. Funny it doesn't jive at all with what the vets I talked to say. We have some guys on here that have been/currently in Iraq and they don't seem to agree. BTW 5th post of this on ARFCOM today, so far that I've been able to find.... Oh and since when does the USMC have ANY M24s (hin the M24 is a US Army sniper rifle - it's a match type M14 and it ONLY comes in 7.52 NATO)....

Yep, something stinks of BS on this one.

Quoted: Quoted: Good article, basically agrees with everything I have heard from guys coming back. Funny it doesn't jive at all with what the vets I talked to say. We have some guys on here that have been/currently in Iraq and they don't seem to agree. BTW 5th post of this on ARFCOM today, so far that I've been able to find.... Oh and since when does the USMC have ANY M24s (hin the M24 is a US Army sniper rifle - it's a match type M14 and it ONLY comes in 7.52 NATO)....

Ok, I should have clarified...I didn't mean the M-16 and M249 part...mainly I was commenting on bad guy weapons, bad guys, bad guy tactics and morale and disgust with the press part.

I wouldn't touch the M-16/M-4 POS part with a 10 foot pole!

Quoted: Jordan sure seems to write well and in volume for a kid just back from Iraq. G

Wheres the love?

Quoted: Jordan sure seems to write well and in volume for a kid just back from Iraq. G

Yep

It smells like a compilation of old information combined with supposition... and there are some major inconsistencies.

This was posted in the AR15 forum a couple days ago. RustedAce pretty much put the smack down on it.

Quoted: I wouldn't touch the M-16/M-4 POS part with a 10 foot pole!

It's more than that.  Lots of other errors in the letter.  1SG Jeff White commented on this post this morning on the AR15-L mailing list (yes folks its still going on).   I should post his commentary as it's really good (I posted Jeff's comments in blue):

>1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is more popular because its lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. > Where is a Marine getting experience with the M4? They are very limited in the Corps with the only large number in use with Force Recon units and Det-1. Both units use the M4A1. Most of the rest of the Corps is using the M16A4. The reports coming out of Iraq actually read this way with regards to reliability: > The M16 series received widespread praise for its durability and > reliability. A few soldiers expressed a desire to be able to fire the > weapon after pulling it out of the dirt ("like you can do with the AK" > was the perception), but there were no trends of poor reliability. > This may be attributed in part to the ease of maintenance reported by > the soldiers. While keeping the weapons clean in this environment was > a continuous requirement it was not considered to be a difficult one. > They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm (.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down. > Here we go again....."Stopping power is such a subjective thing. This is from the PM Soldier Assessment Team Report: > It is apparent that the close range lethality deficiency of the 5.56mm > (M855) is more a matter of perception rather than fact, but there were > some exceptions. The majority of the soldiers interviewed that voiced > or desired "better knock-down power" or a larger caliber bullet did > not have actual close engagements. Those that had close engagements > and applied Close Quarters Battle (CQB) tactics, techniques, and > procedures (TTPs) - controlled pairs in the lethal areas: chest and > head and good shot placement, defeated the target without issue. Most > that had to engage a target repeatedly remarked that they hit the > target in non-vital areas such as the extremities. Some targets were > reportedly hit in the chest numerous times, but required at least one > shot to the head to defeat it. No lethality issues were voiced with > targets engaged at 200 meters and beyond. It is apparent that with > proper shot placement and marksmanship training, the M855 ammunition > is lethal in close and long range. And a bit more on lethality: > Discussion: There have been many engagements with the M855 spanning > ranges from 10 feet to 250 meters against soft targets (non-armored > individuals) during OIF. Observations from the field cover many > different responses from "I shot him in the gut and he ran away", "I > had to put multiple rounds in him to stop him", to "I shot him in the > chest and he went down" and "I shot him in the head and he dropped on > the spot". There are many different views on the lethality of this > round ranging from the need for a heavier bullet (the need for more > stopping power), to "We have no complaints with the M855 ammunition. > It is satisfying the operational need." One brigade of soldiers > interviewed made a very interesting statement concerning the lethality > of the M855. Their focus groups indicated that based on proper target > acquisition with the improved M68 (CCO), shot placement, basic rifle > marksmanship, and firing controlled pairs they were very satisfied > with the round's performance/ terminal effects. > > Recommendations: A Government Lethality IPT has been stood up to > standardize GEL block testing and an engineering study will be > conducted extensive, soft target terminal effects of COTS and military > 5.56mm ammunition. The characteristics of each bullet terminal > performance will be determined. Based on requirements and using the > engineering information, a new round should be type classified and > made available. The complete report is available here: http://www.bob-oracle.com/SWATreport.htm> Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents shows a high level of opiate use. > I have heard nothing about random autopsies on insurgents. I rather doubt that this is happening due to considerations for the perceptions of the Iraqi people. There would be a huge outcry not only on Al Jezerra but in our press that we were "mutilating" the enemy dead.... >2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): .223 cal. Drum fed light machine gun. Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit. Chronic jamming problems, most of which require partial disassembly. (that fun in the middle of a firefight). > First off, it's the M249 SAW and it's not drum fed. It's belt fed. Granted, the plastic box magazines the 200 rd belts come in, could be mistaken for a drum magazine by someone who had never seen one before, but I would think that a Marine would know the nomenclature of this weapon. Also most units are buying the nylon bags to carry the belts in because they don't rattle and fall off like the plastic box magazines, >3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight. > Well the M9 has had all kinds of problems with the aftermarket magaines the military is buying, but the author leaves this out. It's been documented in many offical AARs that the Checkmate brand magazines are junk, yet they haven't been recalled and soldiers and Marines are still having problems with them. >4) Mossberg 12ga. Military shotgun: Works well, used frequently for clearing houses to good effect. > The Marines are using the Benelli 1014 shotgun. They may still field the Mossberg in some quantity. Hate to bust the author's bubble, but shotguns are used to breech. With the restrictive rules of engagement, rifles and precise shooting is the order of the day for clearing operations. Buckshot and slugs are hard to aquire in country and I have a friend who said they used birdshot to scare people who approached too close to convoys. >5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 Nato (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun, developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!). Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts em down. Originally developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted and taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62 round chews up the structure over there. > The Army and Marines have used the M240 for years. It's the standard platoon level machine gun. They don't have to dismount them from the vehicles. The dismount kits for the M240 thats the coax gun in the Abrams and Bradley is very hard to come by. If they dismounted the M240 from the turret, it's most likely unusable in a ground mount role. >6) The M2 .50 cal heavy machine gun: Thumbs way, way up. Ma deuce is still worth her considerable weight in gold. The ultimate fight stopper, puts their dicks in the dirt every time. The most coveted weapon in-theater. > > >7) The .45 pistol: Thumbs up. Still the best pistol round out there. Everybody authorized to carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands on one. With few exceptions, can reliably be expected to put em down with a torso hit. > Force Recon and Det 1 are the Marine units carrying .45s. There are couple Army units that don't really exist using 1911 types and Glock 19s. >The special ops guys (who are doing most of the pistol work) use the HK military model and supposedly love it. > The special ops guys are using SIGs (Navy Special Warfare), M9s (Army, Air Force), MEUSOC 1911 (USMC Force Recon), Kimber 1911 (USMC Det 1) Various 1911s and Glock 19s (unnamed Army SOF). As a side note Springfield Armory was recently given a contract to build the new MEUSOC pistol. > The old government model .45s are being re-issued en masse. > Not true at all. >8) The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in a modified version to special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight Kevlar stocks and low power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the sandy environment, and they love the 7.62 round. > Again not true. Some units are using modified M14s with commercial aftermarket stocks, but they are not being issued in bulk. None of the aftermarket stoks currently in use is made of kevlar. >9) The Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular range and accuracy and hits like a freight train. Used frequently to take out vehicle suicide bombers ( we actually stop a lot of them) and barricaded enemy. Definitely here to stay. > A single shot even from a .50 BMG isn't enough to stop a vehicle. Machine guns, especially the M2 are most used to stop car bombs. They are used to remotely detonate IEDs that are discovered and you'll find a lot of them in the hands of EOD. >10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in .308 but some in 300 win mag. Heavily modified Remington 700s. Great performance. Snipers have been used heavily to great effect. Rumor has it that a marine sniper on his third tour in Anbar province has actually exceeded Carlos Hathcocks record for confirmed kills with OVER 100. > The Marines don't use the M24. They use the M40, the current iteration being the M40A3. No M24s are fielded in 300 Winchester Magnum, even though they are built on the Remington long action to make this possible. >11) The new body armor: Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6 lbs. and can reliably be expected to soak up small shrapnel and even will stop an AK-47 round. > We only wish it weighed 6 pounds. The IBAS with SAPI plates weighs in at just under 16 pounds and when you add in the neck, shoulder and groin protection you're back up over 20 pounds. .... > I can't help but notice the author doesn't know squat about our current weapons and how they are employed. It seems to me that this is another missive written to justify someones personal opinions about what weapons our troops should be issued. > Bad guy weapons: > >1) Mostly AK47s . The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. > .308 Russian???? Who makes that? Is it a cusotm loading? How come the Iraqi insurgents don't use the more common 7.62x39 round? Saddam must have left tons of it stockpiled around the country. That would greatly simplify their logistics........... .... > >3) The IED: The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old Soviet anti-armor mines to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in Jordans area were in abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155mm artillery shells and wire them together. > The enemy didn't use 155mm howitzers...perhaps the author means 152mm?? It's been awhile since I've seen something this full of misinformation spread across the internet. Jeff

Quoted: It's this a repost from like four years ago?

It sure seems familiar.

Is this some kind of forwarded email that's circulating again?

Quoted: This was posted in the AR15 forum a couple days ago. RustedAce pretty much put the smack down on it.

Link?

Quoted: Oh and since when does the USMC have ANY M24s (hin the M24 is a US Army sniper rifle - it's a match type M14 and it ONLY comes in 7.52 NATO)....

Don't you mean the M21 is a match-type M14, and it only comes in 7.62 NATO?






And FWIW, even though I never served in combat in my experience the M249 was one of the most reliable weapons I ever used. A ragged-out POS is a ragged-out POS, regardless of caliber, design, or manufacturer.

5) Bad guy technology: Simple yet effective. Most communication is by cell and satellite phones, and also by email on laptops. They use handheld GPS units for navigation and "Google earth" for overhead views of our positions. Their weapons are good, if not fancy, and prevalent. Their explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF THE LINE. Night vision is rare. They are very careless with their equipment and the captured GPS units and laptops are treasure troves of Intel when captured.

Red portion: Complete and total bullshit.

Blue portion: Suspect this to be inaccurate at best, bullshit at worst.

Quoted: Quoted: Oh and since when does the USMC have ANY M24s (hin the M24 is a US Army sniper rifle - it's a match type M14 and it ONLY comes in 7.52 NATO).... Don't you mean the M21 is a match-type M14, and it only comes in 7.62 NATO?

[slaps head]
Ok I did a typo on the caliber, but you are correct M21 was what I was thinking of.  Don't mind me - 1SG White got it right in his comments.

Looks like another bullshit chain letter. Why do you guys post this stupid shit? Seriously. Stop already. It's about as official as my dick being the official dick of NASCAR.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Oh and since when does the USMC have ANY M24s (hin the M24 is a US Army sniper rifle - it's a match type M14 and it ONLY comes in 7.52 NATO).... Don't you mean the M21 is a match-type M14, and it only comes in 7.62 NATO? [slaps head] Ok I did a typo on the caliber, but you are correct M21 was what I was thinking of.  Don't mind me - 1SG White got it right in his comments.

No worries, I figured you were either being sarcastic or you made a typo.

Quoted: I'm not even dupe police DUPE i'm tired of seeing this

+1

And I'll add....


Soldiers not griping about SOMETHING are derelict in their duty.

Its in the  field manual. Check it out.

Quoted: Looks like another bullshit chain letter. Why do you guys post this stupid shit? Seriously. Stop already. It's about as official as my dick being the official dick of NASCAR.

You let a bunch of rednecks ride it around in a circle?

.

I tell you what MF'r, My M16A2 worked its ass off with zero failures in the same environment. I don't buy this M16 is crap bullshit. Tell the story somewhere else.

Other than that it was an enjoyable read. Gotta get me a SOCOM!!!!!!

Quoted: Quoted: This was posted in the AR15 forum a couple days ago. RustedAce pretty much put the smack down on it. Link?

Went and looked for it myself.

Good read. Love to read the real BTDT guys' stuff.

Quoted: . According to Jordan, morale among our guys is very high. They not only believe they are winning, but that they are winning decisively. They are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American press, whom they almost universally view as against them. The embedded reporters are despised and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a rate of 20-1 and then see like "Are we losing in Iraq" on TV and the print media. For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment, food and leadership. Bottom line though, and they all say this, there are not enough guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the insurgency, primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut down the borders with Iran and Syria. The Iranians and the Syrians just cant stand the thought of Iraq being an American ally (with, of course, permanent US bases there). Anyway guys, that's it, hope you found it interesting, I sure did.

This last part I can beleive --My neighbor returned last week from Iraq and he was more than just a little upset about some of the stuff his own wife (and mine ) thought about the war and how things were going -- routine scheduled demos of munitions repoted as "probable" car bombs and like the fact that we had NO idea how many convoys and patrols met with absolutely no problems each day and how many "insurgents" were getting aced (each and every "ambush" by the "insurgents" is litterally a loss for the "insurgents") and how high thier morale and the will of the Iraqi's to see this thru, how few forgien fighters are comming to Iraq now and how few of those are getting through now that Syria and others are really shutting off the free passage routes--and how sucessful SF COIN ops have been near the borders of Iraq. BTW he mentioned that a shift in AlQ tactics was anticipated in that they would stop wasting trained fighters in Iraq and re-begin OP's in the rest of the world to get focus off of Iraq and give them a sucess to play on --Iraq is not a sucess in AlQ's eyes..

Oh darn, time to throw away all my AR's.

Allah's Waiting Room

This is the same old stupid shit - don't know why I am even responding except that I served as an armorer in the Army for three years and the shit about the M16 and M249 being unreliable is fucking bullshit. If you have shitbag armorers and shitbags soldiers - you have rifles and machine guns which dont work. They seem to work fine for the Marines. But from my Army experience - 5 out of 10 soldiers are too goddamn lazy to maintain their equipment. Rant mode off - enough of this bullshit.

My M249 never jammed on me - blanks or live rounds - the 19 M249's I was signed for always got properly PMCS'd and if something broke - it was quickly fixed. Our M249's ran fine because MAINTENANCE was done on them. NEWSFLASH - guns require maintenance. All do.

I stopped reading when it said that the Beretta M9 was a good weapon.  

SSDD

BTW, It's official, this has been proven to be bullshit.

I love how some people name their threads "It's official.............." and follow it with total bullshit.

This letter does look rather familiar,but some of what
it says matches what I've heard from guys I know
that are currently deployed,kind of.

Of the guys I've talked to ,most have said that everyone wants
at least 1  M-14 amongst their squad ,and their hard to get.

This has nothing to do with challanging if 5.56 is lethal to humans.

It has much more to do with 7.62 being lethal to unarmored vehicles !

Guys I've talked to said that center mass hits with 5.56 have been effective,
but they need something that can stop vehicles quicker,and
penetrate cover.
Not for every guy ,but 1 for every so many.

All of the ones I knew also disliked the SAW.
Whatever the reasons ,the said it was undependable.

Mossbergs in 12 Gauge are in use in Afghanistan by Marines.
I don't know f their old ones ,or new issue ,but I was told
they used Mossbergs.

1sgt is dead on with his comments from what i've seen....

M4's (you're lucky to pull one and that's if you're weapons co... STA, recon or have shiney shit on your collar)

249's.... the Marine Corps SAW's are old as hell...


hell lets see who's first to see why i'm putting this picture up....

we're supposed to get better weapons in country, that remains to be seen...

and it took 2 months for the armory to get around to even look at the broke front sight post on my a-barrel...

but from my looks at that article... it's BS..

*edit*
we only have mossburgs here in our armory...again may change...



-Roth

Quoted: This letter does look rather familiar,but some of what it says matches what I've heard from guys I know that are currently deployed,kind of. Of the guys I've talked to ,most have said that everyone wants at least 1  M-14 amongst their squad ,and their hard to get. This has nothing to do with challanging if 5.56 is lethal to humans. It has much more to do with 7.62 being lethal to unarmored vehicles ! Guys I've talked to said that center mass hits with 5.56 have been effective, but they need something that can stop vehicles quicker,and penetrate cover. Not for every guy ,but 1 for every so many. All of the ones I knew also disliked the SAW. Whatever the reasons ,the said it was undependable. Mossbergs in 12 Gauge are in use in Afghanistan by Marines. I don't know f their old ones ,or new issue ,but I was told they used Mossbergs.

Thank you, Doctor.

G

Saddam did buy a lot of 155mm artillery from South Africa and France. 155mm shells should be fairly common is some areas.

Like most countries without their own weapons industry, equipment varied between units, depending on what was available on the market. A division might be equipped with Eastern or Western equipment sets.

For a time, Iraq had access to American military equipment and purchased what they could.

South Africa
(200) G-5 Towed gun 1984 1985-88 (200)

France
(85) AMXAUF-1/GCT 155mm Self-propelled gun 1982 1983-85 (85)

USA
31 Bell-214ST Helicopter 1985 1987-88 (31)
30 MD-500MD Defender Light helicopter 1983 1983 (30)
26 MD-530F Light helicopter 1985 1985-86 (26)

Here is a field report from Iraq on our weapon systems. The M16 and M249 are far from problem free. Magazine failure is the main issue with the M4/M16. Read the report, it's very detailed and covers all the weapons.


SOLDIER WEAPONS ASSESSMENT TEAM REPORT 6-03


M249 issue:

The biggest issue among M249 SAW gunners is the 200 round plastic ammunition box. Some box and weapon interfaces were observed as weak and unreliable. SAW gunners consistently remarked that the box habitually falls-off no matter the movement technique: walking or rushing. The spring tension is insufficient to retain the box in the slot. Soldiers are using bolts, screws or wire to act as a retaining pin in order to keep the box from slipping from the slot. The box was extremely brittle and prone to break, especially at the box and weapon interface. Discussions with weapons engineers upon return to CONUS revealed that the weak interfaces were previously addressed in a change of the plastic ammunition box design. Some of the problems encountered may have been due to issue of the old design ammunition boxes.


M16 Issue

Numerous weapon magazine reliability issues were cited by soldiers. Many of the M16 series and M9 magazines exhibited the same issues raised in Afghanistan. Several of the magazines failed to feed. It is evident that the spring tension was inadequate to feed the rounds in several magazines observed. Some of the M9 magazines had no tension at all. Several observed M16 magazines were difficult to seat in the weapon, or the feed lips tended to spread apart. Soldiers resorted to loading less than 30 rounds into the magazine. These issues may be attributed to worn out magazines and from a lack of maintenance. However, these issues were not cited with the Beretta® or OKAY® magazines. OKAY® magazines were fielded under the Rapid Fielding Initiative.

Discussion: The majority of the issues experienced with the M16 series rifles in theatre were attributable to the magazines. Most problems reported occurred from loading the M16 series magazine with 30 rounds. One problem was that the magazine is difficult to seat in the weapon with the bolt closed and the magazine tends to spread apart at the top, increasing the difficulty with insertion. Most soldiers relieved these problems by loading less than 30 rounds. One soldier recommended 25 rounds to ease the math associated with ammunition status. No one complained about the reduced capacity.

Recommendations: In the short term, advise the AOR to fill magazines with a maximum of 28 rounds and provide units with magazines issued with RFI. In the long term, the quality and the design of the M16 series magazine must undergo review. Combat Developers should consider whether 30 rounds per magazine are operationally required.

I'll wait to hear from my son and see what he has to say.

GM

dupe.

Some off you guys can't see past your fuckin noses, brand loylty is a bitch.

The M249 plastic box magazine has always been a major design flaw by FN Mfg.- why they never "fixed" it is anyone's guess.........I think that M249's in use by the Army and USMC from the 1980's are well past their service life - much of the sheet metal type design eventually starts to wear out over the years - just because the gun functioned fine in desert storm doesnt mean its up for the challenge of future wars. The Brass are generally worried too fucking much about the wonderboy toys and forget that SMALL ARMS should be paramount as far as maintenance and logistics go. A good chain of command combined with a good support system - and S4 that can provide upgraded equipment if shit is near the end of its real life - is invaluable. The M249 is fine if modern serviceable M249's are provided, soldiers KNOW their weapon, and a functioning support system exists. That is condusive to there not being shitheads in charge........

Unfortunately, we have seen time and time again in Iraq and elsewhere - that priorities are generally fucked when it comes to military command decisions with equipment. In all fairness, many good officers have TRIED to bring about positive change and have often been shot down by those above them who can't even spell "Field" or "Deployment"...........

well i for one thought the info was a great read and am glad to hear the liberal media over here isnt influencing our troops

thanks for takign the time to type all that, and tell your son i said thank you!

3) The M9 Beretta 9mm: Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in desert environment; but they all hate the 9mm cartridge. The use of handguns for self-defense is actually fairly common. Same old story on the 9mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in the fight.

M9 and her 9mm cartridge would be just fine if we stopped pretending we signed onto those stupid fucking Hague conventions.