User Panel
Posted: 9/23/2005 9:51:44 AM EDT
Security will be provided by a church - medical services are back in full swing in the area. Thanks much to all of you who had great ideas and to those of you who wanted to help!
This is only a **tentative** proposal, ladies and gents. If it is determined that there will be a lack of base camp security for our company's deployment to central Mississippi, the owner of the company I work for will be looking for solutions. I informed him that I could most likely gather a half dozen people from this board, to form an informal security detail for our campsite. I told him I could almost guarantee trustworthiness, especially of long time members of arfcom who have numerous references from other arfcommers. I also told him that I could absolutely guarantee the legality of these potential employees being able to CCW in Mississippi. These would be very low keyed, non-uniformed positions. CCW in Miss or a state that has a reciprocity agreement with Miss, sleeved shirts, long pants, and perhaps work boots would be the only requirements. Oh - and a willingness to sit, stand, walk around in a hot, humid environment for at least eight weeks. People with no CCW **might** be permitted to fill these positions, but the would not be able to carry. The pay would be good, but will not be what a crewman for our blue tarp roofing contract is. No specific pay or hours have been set. The hours that will absolutey have to be covered are 0700-1900 seven days a week. You would be camping with us in a tent, camper, or motorhome at our base camp. Tansportation, lodging, food, ect will be the responsibility of the employees. If you could fill the position otherwise, but are *really* hurting on cash, we could in all likelyhood provide food and drink for the duration. Here's a thread re: our disaster recovery mission: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=391690&page=1 Reply to this thread, IM me, or email me at [email protected] if you are interested or have any questions. I would also be VERY interested in any comments or advice from the arfcom hive mind. Would love input from any Mississippi LEOs too. Thanks, Tate |
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Why couldn't those that do not have a Miss. CCW carry open?
ETA: Nothing says "Leave the blue tarp boys alone" like a squad with AR's strapped to their back! |
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fwiw, open carry is 100% legal, but depending on the cops in a particular area it could be good or bad (i.e. anywhere near Jackson would be bad, but nearer to the coast, you'd be ok).
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^^^
Ineedhelp, david_g17 - great information - I thank you both. Just to let y'all know that the hive mind is working: The biggest question of all, asked via email - posted with permission: *********** I don't have a ton of posts on the board but have been a member for some time. I am former Air Force currently working in the Banking industry. I previously owned and operated an armed security company in Texas. We Specialized in special event security and couriers. I am a curent CCW holder. I would be concerned about Mississsippi laws concerning private security. Being familiar we Texas law, it is very strict concerning use of private security. My other concern would be the availability of Food/Water of if it would have to be bought in from outside the area and lodging (hotel, camper, or tent). Thanks for your time. John ************ I understand fully your concerns, John. I am hoping that Miss would allow the rules to be bent during the recovery period. I know for sure that Louisiana DOT has allowed the bending of the restrictions on carrying more than 100 gallons of hazardous material (gasoline) on their roadways due to the need for recovery efforts after Katrina. I was hoping for some Miss LEOs to contact me re: this issue. I tried to call the Mississippi DPS and pose the question, but was directed to voicemail. I would be hesitant to carry out this plan without some assurance that our company and its employees would not run into any trouble. I will post your question with my reply on the board with your permission - let me know. Tate |
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Can anyone tell me where the Mississippi Attorney General's office stands on RKBA and actually following the LAW?
The open carry option would be a great deterrent to theft IMO. |
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Nice to "meet" you! Great reference and great resume in general, modog. |
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You should be OK as they are "in house" security. In most states you don't need to be licensed to work "in house" security. It should be easy to verify by going to the states licensing department and checking I don't know which Mississippi state gov ofice handles that. IM on the way on a coupl other things |
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man, if I wasnt in college right now I would be all over this. got my ccw and my ar....
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How do you conceal carry your AR? |
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So what you are asking is basically for some guys to "babysit" the basecamp while the workers are putting on the tarps right?
Is the base camp mobile? If the guys are to be responsible for their own food and lodging it's pretty tough to supply for 8 weeks, 7 days a week, 12 hours a day. There has to be way to bring in food and water even if the guys have to pay for it. A security detail would also need a base of operations, motorhome/trailer comes to mind. The tarp guys can head off to tents after work but the security detail needs a central location to work from, base their comms, plan/assign details and keep an armory of long guns and ammunition, etc. It would also provide a place to have access to local news and weather reports VIA local radio and TV. Security would in reality be a 24/7 job. I might be interested but I'd need more info and a hard roof over my head. If there's lodging nearby or onsite I can pay my way untill the check comes in. That brings up another question, wages. The other thread mentions crew wages from $250-$375 and this thread says less than a crewman...does that mean less than 250 or less than 375? |
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I don't believe open carry is legal in the state of Mississippi. Last time I checked the laws on it, I believe it was worded in a confusing way but I'm fairly sure it isn't legal. |
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I was thinking I have a trailer that would make a fine TOC. Radios, etc. I have ham/FRS/GMRS/CB capability and so on. |
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It is legal. Don't expect all the cops to know that, though. If I wasn't in college, I would do it in a heartbeat... I could definitely use the money. I have a CCW permit and all the necessary gear... if only I could skip class for awhile. |
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Interesting to know, thanks for the info. I always thought that this meant you could not carry openly though. (18) Nothing in this section shall be construed to require or allow the registration, documentation or providing of serial numbers with regard to any firearm. Further, nothing in this section shall be construed to allow the open and unconcealed carry of any deadly weapon as described in Section 97-37-1, Mississippi Code of 1972. |
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I'm interested when you receive more details. Former police officer, current Texas CCW.
IM me when you have more info. Thanks, HH |
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According to the knowledgeable folks at Packing.org, that paragraph means that: "Open carry might be permitted under law, but frowned upon by Law Enforcement." The problem with a law like that is that you can never get a definitive answer. No matter who you call, they never seem to have a clue. |
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Will do, HH!!! modog - don't lose that trailer! |
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Lose, hell..where ya think I'm going to sleep??? |
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I may be available.
IM, and half of ARFcom knows me. PA CCW. Ops |
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I think I've replied to all emails, posts, and IMs.
Have to wait and see what happens now...... Thanks to you all. I really was proud of the response and the quality and number of applicants I have been able to offer my boss. |
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Right up front I am not interested in doing this, but I would like ot ask a few questions just to satisfy my own curiosity, and maybe they same questions are running around in the heads of people that are acctually interested.
1) Will this be an under the table deal, or will it be a temporay hire type of deal. Basically, will the hires be operating as represetatives of the company in any leagle capacity. W-2's, the whole nine yards? 2) What sort of leagle protection is going to be WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT? As anyone that has been in the military knows, if it is not written down in your contract, then it does not exist. What gaurentees are there that if something does happen that the employees will not be left swinging in the brezze when the law suits happen. 3) How long and what sort of training period are you going to be holding? Is the trainning going to be paid, or will the employees be expected to recive pay for the training hours? This ties into question #2 in that surely there has to be a block of instuction offered by a fully certified and accredited instructor. 4) Who decides what the standards are for use of force, and what systems are in place to ensure they are enforced? 5) It has bit hit on a little before, but what life support systems are going to be in place, and what will need to beprovided by the individuals? 6) What emergancy sevices will be available? Will you have in house medics, or will you be relying on EMS to provide emergancy support? There are lots of other questions I would personally be asking, but these are some of the big ones. I hope this all goes well for you, but end up happening, then I hope everyone at least knows what kind of situation they are getting themselves into from the start. |
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Tag Im sent can cover the medical end for you as well as CCW holder
-Spook PS Ops can vouch for me |
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So if the "security" guys aren't laying tarp, how is their pay determined?
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Just out of curiosity, is security required for the crews or because of the crews? In other words, is this a camp cop position?
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So, if you have to shoot a looter, and the relatives decide to sue, is the one who shot the looter SOL, or will the company pay legal fees?
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Ah, don't you just love those vaguely worded laws? Ayn Rand would be so proud of the legislators in MS...make the laws vague and men unable to determine if they're in compliance, so you can bust them and rake in the cash. I'd look into getting the volunteers licensed as private security. A kickback to the local Chief of Police or Mayor might be needed, unfortunately. |
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The company I work for has--USED to have--a plant in Biloxi. The weekend following Katrina, several guys went down there to see if they could get some of the machinery/vehicles running, and to set up a crane. They were advised by the authorities that if they had firearms to bring 'em, and open carry was ok by them.
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I'd be on it jst for something different right now, but I can't take the time off work.
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The legalities are important, good questions.
I would be ready and willing after October 14th. Retired LEO and Florida CCW. |
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*IF* it happens, I would imagine that they would be paid hourly. |
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Well the animations aren't working right now, but if they were, you'd get a toast! A good question from a different field of view that I hadn't thought of at all. Yes - security is FOR the crews. More specifically, for our belongings while we are at work and while we are asleep. NOT a camp cop position at all. I never even considered that. Who knows - maybe we'll need camp cops before it's all over! |
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Probably SOL as far as fees go. But we would testify to him being a God fearing, tax paying, flag waving, gleeming white toothed clone of Mr. Rogers!!! And he would have that symbolic engraved shovel too! SSS The engraving might be: "NEXT TIME, FRIEND, REMEMBER ALL **THREE** Ss - NOT JUST THE FIRST!" SSS |
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1) Will this be an under the table deal, or will it be a temporay hire type of deal. Basically, will the hires be operating as represetatives of the company in any leagle capacity. W-2's, the whole nine yards?
*IF* this happens, I'd imagine the "guards" would be contract workers - just like everyone else. I9s and W4s. -sounds good ---------------- 2) What sort of leagle protection is going to be WRITTEN IN THE CONTRACT? As anyone that has been in the military knows, if it is not written down in your contract, then it does not exist. What gaurentees are there that if something does happen that the employees will not be left swinging in the brezze when the law suits happen. No contracts have been discussed. I doubt any would be created, frankly. So I guess the short answer is "none". Just like the bonafide Texas State Licensed security company I used to work for, If I remember correctly. In fact, there might have been something in that quarter inch thick contract that I signed and initialed all over the place that specifically stated that the company would not be held responsible for my actions and would not be bound to provide for my legal defense in the event that I had to go to trial for a work related incident. I appreciate your service to our Nation. I was in the military too. -dosen't sound so good ---------------- 3) How long and what sort of training period are you going to be holding? Is the trainning going to be paid, or will the employees be expected to recive pay for the training hours? This ties into question #2 in that surely there has to be a block of instuction offered by a fully certified and accredited instructor. You miss the point of this excercise, grasshopper. We aren't running a school - we aren't gearing up for ops behind the lines - this isn't "Uncommon Valor Redux". "Certified and accredited"? Certified and accredited in what? -I am not missing the point at all, I think you are. If the company is not going to pony up when you get taken to court for using force while performing your duties, then one of the first questions is going to be about levels of training. If there is none, then all it will look like is a bunch of bubbas with guns trying to get their kill on. "We aren't running a school - we aren't gearing up for ops behind the lines" you have not said what industry that your company is in (maybe I just missed it), but I cannot imagine you would hire 6-8 strangers you met on an internet chat board, threw them into a job together and not provide some training in SOP's to get everyone on the same page. I do not know who it is you are looking at hireing if it does kick off, but I doubt they all would handle all given armed confrontations in the same way. I doubt they are all trained to the same standards. Certified and acredited to instruct on whatever scenerios you envision for this group. ---------------- 4) Who decides what the standards are for use of force, and what systems are in place to ensure they are enforced? Common sense decides -in my experiance comman sense is not very comman when it comes to use of force situations, especially with a group of strangers that have been thrown together with differing experiances and no training on what to do in a given situation. ---------------- 5) It has bit hit on a little before, but what life support systems are going to be in place, and what will need to beprovided by the individuals? I guess you could call the water truck a life support system. Water, shower tents, and some ice will be about all that the USACE is providing... -sounds good ---------------- 6) What emergancy sevices will be available? Will you have in house medics, or will you be relying on EMS to provide emergancy support? ...I haven't heard anything about organized, official med teams or care flights, or our work area's proximity to a hospital... -i was just curious if you knew the level of EMS support that would be available in the event of physical trauma, it sounds like that information has yet to come in ---------------- Agreed that they are big issues, especially in the litigious society we live in. The answers here are pretty straightforward to me, though. *IF* this happens, it will be a case of relatively low pay for a relatively low keyed, relatively low risk assignment... -i agree that it seems pretty straight forward ---------------- I hope this all goes well for you, but end up happening, then I hope everyone at least knows what kind of situation they are getting themselves into from the start. Not positive I know what you mean, but I think I do. A fair, logically concerned sentiment of well wishes and hope for complete awareness. Thank you!!! -you got it right ---------------- My only concern would be the litigation that would follow for both your company, and any individuals involved in a confrontation. Other then that, sonds good as long as everyone involved knows what is epected. Good luck with this if it happens |
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500 a day and expenses and I will.... not murder or rape anybody......uuhhh.... just about anything else, though. |
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Gentlemen - Medic/EMT aid is no longer needed - thank you so much for the offers!!!
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