Actual case of a bullet overpenetrating in building materials and killing an innocent.

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Actual case of a bullet overpenetrating in building materials and killing an innocent.

Posted: 8/16/2005 11:42:05 AM EDT

When discussion overpenetration some claim the risks are exaggerated. Sadley for Mr Kim they are not.

Deputies shoot, kill suspect and Dublin homeowner who called for help
Tuesday August 16, 2005
DUBLIN, Calif. (AP) Two sheriff's deputies shot and killed a knife-wielding man during a domestic dispute and killed the suspect's brother-in-law who had called police for help.

Richard Kim, 49, had taken refuge inside a bedroom after his brother-in-law chased him with a knife Thursday, according to Dublin police Lt. Glenn Moon. Officers found an aggressive Kwang Tae Lee holding a knife and trying to get into the room.

Officers shot and killed Lee because they feared for their safety and that of another person in the home who was not identified. One bullet penetrated the bedroom door and struck Kim.

Lee, 61, who was visiting his sister's home from South Korea with his wife, was pronounced dead by paramedics. Kim died from his injuries Sunday night.

Kim's wife, Jee Kim, said Monday she was very upset at how the officers handled the incident that led to the deaths of her husband and brother, but she refused to elaborate.

Dublin police did not reveal until Monday that a second man had been wounded by the officers.

``We were not attempting to hide anything,'' Moon said.

The Alameda County sheriff's officers, David Taylor, 39, and Tara Russell, 26, were placed on administrative leave during an investigation into the shooting by the Dublin Police Department and the Alameda County district attorney. Taylor and Russell are county deputies hired by the city of Dublin for police services.

Information from: San Francisco Chronicle

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:20:45 PM EDT

[#1]

Bump for night crew

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:22:29 PM EDT

[#2]

FMJ?

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:24:03 PM EDT

[#3]

Doesnt say if he missed or if it was a through-and-through, does it?

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:26:00 PM EDT

[#4]

I would hate to be one of the officers involved.

Posted: 8/16/2005 5:27:22 PM EDT

[#5]

Sometimes thats just how it goes when you are playing in a band.

Posted: 8/16/2005 6:17:05 PM EDT

[#6]

No real info there. We can only assume that it was even a pistol round.
For all that tells us, it could have been a miss that hit the homeowner.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:42:09 AM EDT

[#7]

One bullet penetrated the bedroom door and struck Kim.

This is not what I'd call a case of "overpenetration." Hollow interior doors have trouble stopping anything more powerful than a Red Ryder BB gun. You might as well be hiding behind a cardboard box.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:47:27 AM EDT

[#8]

Couldn't have been a .223.

I read somewhere that someone saw a FBI report that proved that a .223 round, after hitting any type of barrier other than a human, will flutter to the ground in a back-and-forth motion not unlike a leaf falling from a tree.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:49:23 AM EDT

[#9]

Thanks for posting this. This possibility is something we should all keep in mind in our home defense planning.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:49:57 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Couldn't have been a .223.

I read somewhere that someone saw a FBI report that proved that a .223 round, after hitting any type of barrier other than a human, will flutter to the ground in a back-and-forth motion not unlike a leaf falling from a tree.

Unless it hits a pot roast first, in which case the roast itself will explode into millions of pieces that will flutter in aforesaid manner - but only if it was a rump roast, and only if it was at normal body temperature. Cold roasts stop bullets cold.

Seriously, tagged to see what round it was.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:54:56 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Cold roasts stop bullets cold.

All the more need for marketing research in the field of "smart" bullet technology.

Some sintered bullet manufacturer is on the phone right now with the Alameda city council - whispering sweet nothings into their ears.

Posted: 8/17/2005 9:57:42 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
One bullet penetrated the bedroom door and struck Kim.

This is not what I'd call a case of "overpenetration." Hollow interior doors have trouble stopping anything more powerful than a Red Ryder BB gun. You might as well be hiding behind a cardboard box.

+1

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:18:33 AM EDT

[#13]

40 gr .223 TAP.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:19:35 AM EDT

[#14]

Hint: When the cops show up to help, get clear; don't stand there behind the door...

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:28:39 AM EDT

[#15]

Is there actually any round that will not penetrate a hollow interior door? One that is still worth a damm.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:38:13 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
One bullet penetrated the bedroom door and struck Kim.

This is not what I'd call a case of "overpenetration." Hollow interior doors have trouble stopping anything more powerful than a Red Ryder BB gun. You might as well be hiding behind a cardboard box.

Yup.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:40:51 AM EDT

[#17]

First let me say that the following information may be embellished just a bit. Firemen are known to spread the bullshit just a bit thick. So it's all hearsay.

A friend of mine who responded to that call (Fire Dept) said that the scene was sheer pandemonium.

When the F.D. arrived on scene there were already 20+ deputies on scene. They (fire) entered the house and immediately had to engage the victim who had been severely cut up and was bleeding profusely from several large lacerations and was now combative.

My buddy told me that he saw at least 4 casings in .45 acp on the floor. Bad guy was hit several times with one round to the forehead. Field determination of death was determined by EMS personnel.

He did not mention a third patient. I'm betting that the third person was not found until much later.

If I hear anymore I will update. Especially the ballistic stuff.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:43:58 AM EDT

[#18]

Lesson here? Shoot your crazy-assed relatives BEFORE the police get involved.

At the very least, stay the fu** away from them.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:44:24 AM EDT

[#19]

I'm not sure what this proves, other than 1/4" wood paneling don't stop bullets. Did the bullet pass through the BG and into the door? That would be more interesting I think.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:48:10 AM EDT

[#20]

It's all fun and games until the bullets start flying.

Posted: 8/17/2005 10:52:25 AM EDT

[#21]

Where's Old_Painless? He can render final judgement here.

Posted: 8/17/2005 11:56:46 AM EDT

[#22]

Just a couple of points.

First, in any self defense shooting, the bad guy is the back stop.

Second, I dont think the article gave any indication of the doors construction. It might have been the plastic and styrofoam laminates like in the new housing construction, or solid oak like my first house.

Posted: 8/17/2005 1:01:47 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Just a couple of points.

First, in any self defense shooting, the bad guy is the back stop.

Second, I dont think the article gave any indication of the doors construction. It might have been the plastic and styrofoam laminates like in the new housing construction, or solid oak like my first house.

I do know for a fact that these are new construction starting in the $1,000,000.00 range.

So probably crappy low end doors.

Posted: 8/17/2005 1:05:08 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

I do know for a fact that these are new construction starting in the $1,000,000.00 range.

So probably crappy low end doors.

Think maybe you left too many Zeros there

I'd expect nice doors in my million dollar home.

Posted: 8/17/2005 1:06:26 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I do know for a fact that these are new construction starting in the $1,000,000.00 range.

So probably crappy low end doors.

Think maybe you left too many Zeros there

I'd expect nice doors in my million dollar home.

That kind of money will get you a solid door around here.......

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Actual case of a bullet overpenetrating in building materials and killing an innocent.

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