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Arab volunteers killed in Iraq: an Analysis
By Reuven Paz
Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center
THE PROJECT FOR THE RESEARCH OF ISLAMIST MOVEMENTS (PRISM)
OCCASIONAL PAPERS
Volume 3 (2005), Number 1 (March 2005)
Director and Editor: Reuven Paz

Introduction
Since the end of the major phase of the war in Iraq and the collapse of the former Baathist regime of Saddam Hussein in May 2003, Iraq—like Afghanistan in the 1980s, and Bosnia and Chechnya in the 1990s—has turned into a magnet for Jihadi volunteers. Unlike the case of Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya, the vast majority of the volunteers that streamed into Iraq are Arabs, while only few fighters stem from non-Arab Muslim countries or emigrant communities in the West.

One possible reason for the predominantly Arab composition of Jihadists in Iraq may be the fact that Iraq is an Arab country; occupied by the "Crusaders," thus stimulating heightened degree of Arab solidarity among Arab supporters of Jihadi-Salafi individuals and groups. An additional reason may be the ease with which Saudis, Kuwaitis, Jordanians, or Syrians can cross the borders to Iraq. Furthermore, the Sunni Jihadi groups, and many other Islamists, even from within the Saudi and other Arab Islamic establishments, view the insurgency in Iraq as a legitimate Jihad not only against the Americans, but against the Shi`is as well.

In the past two months, supporters of Jihadi-Salafi groups have posted lists of Arabs who were killed in Iraq on Islamist web sites. Saudi supporters of Global Jihad gathered the bulk of the details. With the information provided thus far, a list of 154 names of Arabs killed in Iraq in the past six months—mainly since the battle over Falluja—can be generated. Although the list is not necessarily a complete enumeration of all the Arab volunteers killed in Iraq, a short analysis of this list is nevertheless useful.

It is important to note that this list contains only those Arabs who joined the Jihadi-Salafi insurgency, primarily of Abu Mus'ab al-Zarqawi's group, and supporters of Qaedat al-Jihad. Even though the list is incomplete, it provides us with some interesting insights about the phenomenon of foreign volunteers for Jihad, which shows no signs of subsiding. One should also keep in mind that since the list contains information on those volunteers who have been killed, it does not necessarily reflect the exact numbers and composition of all Arab volunteers in Iraq. Nevertheless, it may be a relatively accurate reflection of the division of those who actually participated in the battles.

Analysis
Sorted by their countries of origin, the 154 Arabs killed in Iraq in the past six months have the following distribution:

Country Number Percent  
Saudi Arabia: 94 61%
Syria: 16 10.4%
Iraq: 13 8.4%
Kuwait: 11 7.1%
Jordan: 4  
Lebanon: 3 (one was living in Denmark)  
Libya: 2  
Algeria: 2  
Morocco: 2 (one was living in Spain)  
Yemen: 2  
Tunisia: 2  
Palestine: 1  
Dubai: 1  
Sudan: 1 (living in Saudi Arabia)  

Particularly striking in the above list is the absence of Egyptians among foreign Arab volunteers for the insurgency in Iraq, even though Egypt is the largest Arab country, with millions of sympathizers of Islamist groups. It is also known that many Egyptians, including professionals among them, arrived in Iraq looking for work, and some of them were taken hostage by insurgent groups. Hundreds of Egyptians also took part in previous Islamist battles in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya. The absence of Egyptians from the list may be explained by a significant decline in the influence of Jihadi groups in Egypt; the harsh oppression of Islamists by the Egyptian authorities; the mass trials of Egyptians who returned from other regions where Islamists staged insurgencies; and the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. While the Brotherhood does support the Jihad in Iraq, it advocates a strategy of propaganda only, demanding of its adherents to strictly refrain from physical participation in the Iraqi Jihad.

Another element to note is the relatively small number of Iraqis involved in the fighting on behalf of the Zarqawi group. Furthermore, it seems that out of several thousands of Iraqis killed in the battles of Fallujah, only a negligible small number of Iraqis were members of Zarqawi's group. The vast majority appears to have been members of other groups, including Saddam Hussein loyalists, or civilians.

The small number of Iraqis associated with Zarqawi may suggest that Zarqawi's group, Tawhid wal-Jihad—now also known as Al-Qaeda in Mesopotamia—is in fact composed mostly of non-Iraqi Arab volunteers, such as Zarqawi himself, as well as his late chief cleric—Abu Anas al-Shami—both of whom are Jordanians. It could also explain the alliance between Zarqawi and Osama bin Laden, due to the multi-national nature of the two groups. If true, it also shows that the majority of insurgencies carried out in Iraq by Iraqis, is directed by the remains of the Baath Party, i.e., by Saddam loyalists rather than by the Islamists.

The list also shows that the majority of the Arab Jihadi volunteers in Iraq originate from countries that are bordering Iraq, namely—Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, and Syria—due to the ease with which Jihadists from these countries can infiltrate Iraq. Among those killed the number of Syrians, 16, is of note. This high number of Islamists from Syria killed in Iraq must have been noticed by the Syrian authorities, and should raise their concern. The Syrian government, as part of its established policy of supporting the remains of the Iraqi Baath Party, seemed to have turned a blind eye to the number of Syrian Jihadi volunteers that cross the border into Iraq.

Sorted by their residency within Saudi Arabia, the distribution of the 94 Saudi volunteers is as follows:

Najd (mostly in Riyadh): 61  
Qassim/Buraydah: 12  
Hijaz (mostly in Mecca): 7  
Eastern province: 7  
Southern province: 5  
North/Tabbouk: 2


Out of 154 Arabs killed in Iraq, 33 carried out suicide attacks, as following:

Saudi Arabia: 23*  
Syria: 5  
Kuwait: 2  
Libya: 1  
Iraq: 1  
Morocco: 1


* 10 from Najd—9 of them from Riyadh; 5 from the Eastern province; 5 from Buraydah; 2 from the Hijaz; 1 from the Southern province.

The list clearly, albeit not surprisingly, points at the significant involvement of Saudis in the Islamist insurgency in Iraq. The data may be slightly incorrect in the percentage of Saudis killed in Iraq, since mainly Saudi supporters of Global Jihad gathered it. The number of non-Saudi Arab volunteers killed may be higher. Despite these minor potential inaccuracies, the number of Saudis killed in the past six months in Iraq (94) is too large to be ignored. It strongly suggests the Saudis' direct and active involvement both in the insurgency battles as well as in terrorist operations. Saudis also constitute the highest percentage, 70% (23 of 33), of Arab suicide bombers in Iraq. Here, too, the Syrians occupy the second place (15%).

The division of Saudis according to regions shows that residents of Najd, primarily of the capital Riyadh, have assumed the most prominent role among participants in terrorist activities in Iraq. As the data shows, Najdis consist 43.5% of Saudi suicide bombers, and 64.9% of all Saudi volunteers to Iraq. It seems that the Tawhidi/Wahhabi doctrines of Najd—the heart of Wahhabism—remain highly effective, even though it is the Saudi clerics and scholars who studied in Islamic universities in the Hijaz who have developed parts of the dissident doctrines of Global Jihad.

An even more important conclusion derived from this data relates to the social origin of most of the Saudi volunteers, since Najd is the region of the Saudi kingdom's more influential tribes.

Many of these Saudis come from respected and well known tribes or families whose members were involved in Islamist terrorist activity within and outside of the Saudi kingdom in recent years, including the 9/11 attacks. These tribes include, inter alia, the Al-Utaybi, Al-Shamari, Al-Mutayri, Al-Dawsari, Al-Qahtani, or al-Rashed tribes.

Many of the Saudis present on the list were 25-30 years old and married. Some were highly educated, and the list contained several professionals, including two young businessmen. In ten known cases two Saudi brothers volunteered to fight in Iraq and were killed. In three cases, two brothers carried out a suicide attack, either a joint or separate attacks. One of the Saudis, Muhammad bin Aedh al-Ghadif al-Qahtani, was a Captain in the Saudi National Guard before he went to Iraq. The National Guard seems to be the Saudi military force most exposed to Jihadi-Salafi influence, as was earlier proven in other terrorist cases that took place inside the kingdom. Members of the Guard also sold or smuggled weapons to Saudi Islamists that were subsequently used in operations in Saudi Arabia.

From the partial data available of Arab volunteers killed in Iraq, we can further learn that some of them, not only Saudis, came from wealthy or upper middle class families. Some were students who left their studies in order to join the battle in Iraq. Only few were involved in past Islamist insurgencies in Afghanistan, Bosnia, or Chechnya. Three Saudis, two Lebanese, and one Kuwaiti were sons of Afghan alumni. Yet, the vast majority of Arabs killed in Iraq have never taken part in any terrorist activity prior to their arrival in Iraq. One Syrian was 13 years old and with his father in Fallujah, where the two were killed.

Many of the Arabs killed in Iraq, especially the Saudis, went to Iraq in groups, consisting mainly of friends, and some were influenced by brothers or other family members to join the Jihad. This is another sign of the impact of the Jihadi atmosphere in Saudi Arabia, both with regard to dissident views vis-à-vis the Saudi regime, and the duty of Jihad in Iraq. The support for violent Jihad in Iraq against the Americans was encouraged by the Saudi Islamic establishment. In October 2004, 26 of the senior Saudi Ulama published a declaration supporting the Jihad in Iraq, eliciting no reaction by the Saudi government.

Conclusion
While the list analyzed above is incomplete, the data it contains provides us with a glimpse into a very important aspect of the Islamist involvement in the insurgency in Iraq: Arab Jihadi volunteers constitute a significant portion of the Sunni insurgents. This ensures the persistence of the Jihadi-Salafi model of Global Jihad, which is further strengthened by the situation in Iraq, unlike the Afghani one, enjoys widespread coverage in the international media. The battle experience that Jihadists gain in Iraq, a campaign that, unlike in Afghanistan, Bosnia, or Chechnya, is plagued more by acts of terrorism than by guerrilla warfare, supplies the Islamist adherents of the Global Jihad culture with a wealth of first hand field experience, in spite of the absence of organized training camps.

It seems that thus far, Saudis are not only the group most affected by the insurgency in Iraq, but also help feed it. One significant explanation for that may be the Wahhabi hostility towards the Shi`is, who are perceived as infidels, and the notion of the need to support the Sunni minority in Iraq. Even though the Iraqi Sunni community is composed from various kinds of trends, including many Baathists, Saudi Wahhabi circles view it as a community under attack. Hence, Islamists should assist it through a personal duty (Fardh `Ayn) of Jihad, in order to turn it into the "victorious community" (Al-Taefah al-Mansourah) in Islamist terms.

The intensive involvement of Saudi volunteers for Jihad in Iraq is also the result of the Saudi government's doublespeak, whereby it is willing to fight terrorism, but only if directly affected by it on its own soil. Saudi Arabia is either deliberately ignoring, or incapable and too weak, to engage in open and brave opposition to Jihadi terrorism outside of the Kingdom. In the future, the Iraqi experience of these mainly Saudi volunteers may create a massive group of "Iraqi alumni" that will threaten the fragile internal situation of the desert kingdom. In the past year, it appeared as if the Saudis were successful in limiting the Jihadi-Salafi terrorism on Saudi soil. Their blind eyes in the face of the Saudi Islamic establishment's support of the Jihad in Iraq may pose a greater threat in the future, as soon as the hundreds of volunteers return home. The present Saudi regime does not seem as firm as its Egyptian colleague in fighting its domestic Islamist opposition. While Egypt managed to put all returnees from Afghanistan, Bosnia, Albania, and Chechnya behind bars for a long time, at present the Saudi regime does not seem to have the willingness and wherewithal to do the same with its own returnees.

In recent months, the insurgency in Iraq is affecting another neighboring country—namely Kuwait. The Kuwaiti authorities are facing a rising wave of Salafist insurgency, including terrorist operations. In January-February 2005 they also seized large amounts of weapons. We should also add to that the activity of Islamist groups in Jordan, and the support for the Jordanian Zarqawi in his homeland. The spiritual father of the Tawhid wal-Jihad is the Jordanian of Palestinian origin, Sheikh Abu Muhammad al-Maqdesi, who was recently acquitted by Jordanian court after several years of detention.

The Iraqi insurgency and the involvement of Arab volunteers, should, therefore, be more alarming among Iraq's neighbors. The Arab sympathy for the Sunni Jihadists in Iraq these days, reminds us of Arab solidarity with Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war in 1980-1988. Many Arab circles perceived the war then as a reflection of the past hostility between Arabs and Persians in the early Islamic history. Islamist fundamentalists in our times may view the Sunni-Shi`i conflict in Iraq in similar terms.

* * *

The Project for the Research of Islamist Movements is part of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center. Site: www.e-prism.org
Email: reupaz @ netvision . net . il
All material copyright Reuven Paz unless otherwise stated.
Credit if quoting; ask permission to reprint.
GLORIA is part of the Interdisciplinary Center, Herzliya, ISRAEL

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Abstract: This is a series of papers that translate and analyze articles, reports, religious decrees, and other documents, written in Arabic by Islamist scholars, clerics, operatives, or intellectuals.

Posted by aaron at March 05, 2005 09:53 AM

Here's a Washinton post article on this:


'Martyrs' In Iraq Mostly Saudis
Web Sites Track Suicide Bombings

By Susan B. Glasser
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 15, 2005; Page A01

Before Hadi bin Mubarak Qahtani exploded himself into an anonymous fireball, he was young and interested only in "fooling around."

Like many Saudis, he was said to have experienced a religious awakening after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States and dedicated himself to Allah, inspired by "the holy attack that demolished the foolish infidel Americans and caused many young men to awaken from their deep sleep," according to a posting on a jihadist Web site.


On April 11, he died as a suicide bomber, part of a coordinated insurgent attack on a U.S. Marine base in the western Iraq city of Qaim. Just two days later, "the Martyrdom" of Hadi bin Mubarak Qahtani was announced on the Internet, the latest requiem for a young Saudi man who had clamored to follow "those 19 heroes" of Sept. 11 and had found in Iraq an accessible way to die.

Hundreds of similar accounts of suicide bombers are featured on the rapidly proliferating array of Web sites run by radical Islamists, online celebrations of death that offer a wealth of information about an otherwise shadowy foe at a time when U.S. military officials say that foreign fighters constitute a growing and particularly deadly percentage of the Iraqi insurgency.

The account of Qahtani's death, like many other individual entries on the Web sites, cannot be verified. But independent experts and former government terrorism analysts who monitor the sites believe they are genuine mouthpieces for the al Qaeda-affiliated radicals who have made Iraq "a melting pot for jihadists from around the world, a training group and an indoctrination center," as a recent State Department report put it. The sites hail death in Iraq as the inspiration for a new generation of terrorists in much the same way that Afghanistan attracted Muslims eager to fight against the Soviet Union in the 1980s.

Rosters of the Dead


Who are the suicide bombers of Iraq? By the radicals' account, they are an internationalist brigade of Arabs, with the largest share in the online lists from Saudi Arabia and a significant minority from other countries on Iraq's borders, such as Syria and Kuwait. The roster of the dead on just one extremist Web site reviewed by The Washington Post runs to nearly 250 names, ranging from a 13-year-old Syrian boy said to have died fighting the Americans in Fallujah to the reigning kung fu champion of Jordan, who sneaked off to wage war by telling his family he was going to a tournament.

Among the dead are students of engineering and English, the son of a Moroccan restaurateur and a smattering of Europeanized Arabs. There are also long lists of names about whom nothing more is recorded than a country of origin and the word "martyr."

Some counterterrorism officials are skeptical about relying on information from publicly available Web sites, which they say may be used for disinformation. But other observers of the jihadist Web sites view the lists of the dead "for internal purposes" more than for propaganda, as British researcher Paul Eedle put it. "These are efforts on the part of jihadis to collate deaths. It's like footballers on the Net getting a buzz out of knowing somebody's transferred from Chelsea to Liverpool." Or, as Col. Thomas X. Hammes, an expert on insurgency with the National Defense University, said, "they are targeted marketing. They are not aimed at the West."

Zarqawi Lures Attackers



Many of the Arabs, according to the postings, were drawn to fight in Iraq under the banner of al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, the group run by Jordanian militant Abu Musab Zarqawi that has taken credit for a gruesome series of beheadings, kidnappings and suicide attacks -- many of them filmed and then disseminated on the Internet in a convergence between the electronic jihad and the real-life war.

In recent days, the U.S. military in Iraq has stepped up its campaign against the Zarqawi network, launching an offensive in western Iraq in an area where foreigners are believed to be smuggled across the Syrian border and claiming to have arrested or killed nearly two dozen key Zarqawi lieutenants. At the same time, Iraq has been hit by a wave of suicide attacks causing about 400 deaths over the last two weeks, one of the deadliest periods since the U.S. invasion in 2003.

As the military has blamed much of the escalating violence on foreign fighters coming to Iraq, Zarqawi's group responded this week. "The infidels once again are claiming that foreign fighters are responsible for initiating the attacks and an increase [in foreign fighters] is the true danger," the Zarqawi media wing said in a May 10 Internet posting. But "the real danger," the posting said, is Zarqawi's overall following. And besides, it added, "who is the foreigner . . .? You are the ones who came to the land of the Muslims from your distant corrupt land."

U.S. military estimates cited by security analysts put the number of active jihadists at about 1,000, or less than 10 percent of the number of fighters in a mostly Iraqi-dominated insurgency. But military officials now say the foreigners are responsible for a higher percentage of the suicide bombings, and the online postings include few names of dead Iraqis affiliated with Zarqawi's group.


Zarqawi Lures Attackers



Many of the suicide bombers appear to have been novices in warfare, attracted by the relative ease of access to Iraq and the lure of quick martyrdom. "This is not al Qaeda's first team," said Hammes of the National Defense University. "These are the scrubs who could never get us in the States."

Heavy Saudi Involvement





In a paper published in March, Reuven Paz, an Israeli expert on terrorism, analyzed the lists of jihadi dead. He found 154 Arabs killed over the previous six months in Iraq, 61 percent of them from Saudi Arabia, with Syrians, Iraqis and Kuwaitis together accounting for another 25 percent. He also found that 70 percent of the suicide bombers named by the Web sites were Saudi. In three cases, Paz found two brothers who carried out suicide attacks. Many of the bombers were married, well educated and in their late twenties, according to postings.

"While incomplete," Paz wrote, the data suggest "the intensive involvement of Saudi volunteers for jihad in Iraq."

In a telephone interview, Paz said his list -- assembled from monitoring a dozen Islamic extremist Web forums -- now had more than 200 names. "Many are students or from wealthy families -- the same sociological characteristics as the Sept. 11 hijackers," he said.

Saudis Dispute Numbers


The apparent predominance of Saudi fighters on the Internet lists has caused an alarmed reaction by Saudi officials, who fear a backlash from the Americans at the same time they are trying to convince the United States that they are working as allies against terrorism. While Saudi officials do not deny that Saudi citizens have taken up arms against the United States in Iraq, they argue that the long lists of Saudi dead could be a disinformation tactic or simply a recruiting tool used to lure Arab youth to Iraq by convincing them of how many others have already won a place in Paradise.

"Are there Saudis in Iraq? Yes, we know that. Absolutely. But are there the numbers being bandied about? We really don't believe so," said a Saudi official who spoke on the condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the subject.

"The Internet sites try to recruit people -- it's the best recruitment tool," said Saudi security analyst Nawaf Obaid. Obaid, who has worked closely with the government, said he found 47 cases of Saudis who were dead or injured reported in the kingdom's newspapers, far lower than Internet totals, and had concluded the overall number of Saudi jihadis in Iraq was in the hundreds. "But young guys, they read [on the Internet] we have thousands of Saudis there and think, 'I have to go, too.' "

Evan F. Kohlmann, a researcher who monitors Islamic extremist Web sites, has compiled a list of more than 235 names of Iraqi dead gleaned from the Internet since last summer, with more than 50 percent on his tally from Saudi Arabia as well. In some cases, he found photos or videos of dead foreign fighters posted online. One Kuwaiti policeman who died was featured in a Zarqawi propaganda video called "Winds of Change," while the bloodied corpse of a Turkish al Qaeda disciple, Habib Aktas, was shown on another video celebrating his "martyrdom."

Some of the Web postings also include phone numbers so fellow Islamists can call a dead fighter's family and congratulate them. Kohlmann called several of the numbers. "I have lists and lists of foreign fighters, and it's no joke. Their sons went and blew themselves up in Iraq," he said.

Zarqawi's group has also regularly posted biographical sketches of its suicide bombers, such as that of Abu Anas Tuhami, said to have died in a suicide attack on Iraq's Election Day in January. Tuhami, a Saudi orphan raised by his grandfather, was unusually saintly, as reported in the February online communique.

Quick Path to Paradise



"O' brother, I love to sleep on the floor and I need no mattress," Tuhami was quoted as telling one fellow foreign fighter. He was to have been married in February. "Instead, he chose to be with the virgins of paradise," the announcement said. "He used to talk frequently about the virgins of paradise and their beauty, and he wished to drink a sip from the sustenance of paradise while a virgin beauty wiped his mouth."

One Web forum examined by The Post, a site first registered to an Abu Dhabi individual on Sept. 18, 2001, and believed to attract postings from al Qaeda, presents a regularly updated list of the "Arab martyrs in Iraq." The forum, at http://www.qal3ah.net/ , was used by both Paz and Kohlmann in compiling their lists; other researchers also said they regularly consulted the site, which bills itself as a sort of town hall for the jihad-inclined.

Saudis were also the leading group on this list, representing 44 percent, followed by Syrians and Iraqis at less than 15 percent each. Many of the dead appeared to be young newcomers to jihad with stories like Qahtani's, though other listings detailed the deaths of veteran fighters who came through the al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan before Sept. 11, including the father of Ammar Souri, the 13-year-old said to have died during last year's fighting in Fallujah.

Biographies of Bombers




Often the entries bragged about the number of Americans killed by the "lions from the martyrs' brigade," as in the case of Ahmed Said Ghamdi, a 20-year-old Saudi who was said to have given up his medical studies in Sudan to go to Iraq and was hailed as the "hero" of a Mosul suicide bombing of a mess tent that killed 22 people.

Another list, posted in February on the forum called Masada at http://www.alm2sda.net/ , listed a couple dozen senior Zarqawi lieutenants who had died -- most of whose names appear on the other Web lists. Among them was Abu Mohammed Lubnani, a Lebanese who had lived in Denmark before going to fight in Iraq and whose son was also killed, and Abu Ahmad Tabuki, who had been a key figure in the Afghan jihad against the Soviets.

Biographical details are often sketchy in the online obituaries, as is the case with Qahtani, the young Saudi said to have died April 11 while attacking a U.S. Marine base in the western Iraqi city of Qaim. The account of his death located by Kohlmann on the Internet does not say whether Qahtani was driving the commandeered dump truck that barreled onto the base, wreaking havoc before exploding, or whether he was in one of two other vehicles that blew up while another group of fighters opened fire on Marines.

It gives no more identifying details than his name -- indicating he was part of a well-known Saudi tribe that also produced the al Qaeda member known as the so-called 20th hijacker, Mohamed Qahtani, who was turned away from entering the country by suspicious U.S. airport officials in August 2001.

Five other Qahtanis have been reported killed in Iraq, including Muhammed bin Aedh Ghadif Qahtani, a captain in the Saudi National Guard who allegedly used his guard identification badge to help gain entry into Iraq when he was stopped for questioning.

Staff researcher Julie Tate contributed to this report.

[Beaver Cleaver]
Gee Wally I thought the Saudi's were our friends and stuff.
I mean GW was holding hands with the King and everything.

I think your thread title is wrong.  According to the article, only 3% of suicide bombers were iraqi.

Can you paste the quote? I'm seeing 8.4% for Iraq, but I admit I just skimmed the article.

Out of 154 Arabs killed in Iraq, 33 carried out suicide attacks, as following:

Saudi Arabia: 23*
Syria: 5
Kuwait: 2
Libya: 1
Iraq: 1
Morocco: 1

I read somewhere that 48% of all homicide bombers in Iraq are Saudi's.

On the other hand, it sure is an effective way to get rid of the extremists.

Thanks TacticalStrat, I always enjoy your threads.

Tagged.

Kharn

See?

All the terrorist sickos are showing up in Iraq to get killed instead of showing up here to kill us.

That's how you spell success.

Quoted: Thanks TacticalStrat, I always enjoy your threads.

My pleasure.

It does appear that most of the so called insurgents fighting in Iraq are foreigners.  The Iraqis are not the problem.  The problem is that every nut job that wants to kill someone has gone there.

If you check you will also find that the vast majority of people killed by the terrorist attacks are Iraqi.  (do they shout Allah Akbar when they kill Muslims?)  

I agree that the Iraq theater seems to be using up a lot of suicide bombers, that might otherwise come here.  Let's face it, the pool of suitable goofballs willing to blow themselves up cannot be that large, and by definition not a renewable resource.

Quoted: It does appear that most of the so called insurgents fighting in Iraq are foreigners.  The Iraqis are not the problem.  The problem is that every nut job that wants to kill someone has gone there. If you check you will also find that the vast majority of people killed by the terrorist attacks are Iraqi.  (do they shout Allah Akbar when they kill Muslims?)   I agree that the Iraq theater seems to be using up a lot of suicide bombers, that might otherwise come here.  Let's face it, the pool of suitable goofballs willing to blow themselves up cannot be that large, and by definition not a renewable resource.

Don't these people have day jobs or something?  

"Hey Mohammed! Akmed did not show up at the company picnic today, what gives?"

Particularly striking in the above list is the absence of Egyptians among foreign Arab volunteers for the insurgency in Iraq, even though Egypt is the largest Arab country, with millions of sympathizers of Islamist groups. It is also known that many Egyptians, including professionals among them, arrived in Iraq looking for work, and some of them were taken hostage by insurgent groups. Hundreds of Egyptians also took part in previous Islamist battles in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya. The absence of Egyptians from the list may be explained by a significant decline in the influence of Jihadi groups in Egypt; the harsh oppression of Islamists by the Egyptian authorities; the mass trials of Egyptians who returned from other regions where Islamists staged insurgencies; and the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. While the Brotherhood does support the Jihad in Iraq, it advocates a strategy of propaganda only, demanding of its adherents to strictly refrain from physical participation in the Iraqi Jihad.

This paragraph is particularly telling. It seems all this killing would stop with a few words from a few Mullahs.

Get it?

No Iranians???  Not even a mention?  Hmmm.  Astounding.

154 Arabs killed in Iraq in the past six months

that's nothing

Quoted: 154 Arabs killed in Iraq in the past six months that's nothing

I saw somewhere that the estimate was only about 1000 terrorists are left in Iraq.

So I guess these are Michael Moore's minutemen, huh?

Quoted: Quoted: 154 Arabs killed in Iraq in the past six months that's nothing I saw somewhere that the estimate was only about 1000 terrorists are left in Iraq.

Not to worry, the terrorist factory south of Iraq is stepping up production.

didja ever think maybe iraqis just duck faster???

No matter what ones opinion is if the war. One thing is clear. Instead of making the poor terrorists get plane tickets and come here, all they have to do is walk across the border to fight. Lets keep the fight there and away from our soil. No matter what they want us dead. and they want to die fighting us. Lets make their trip to the fight a short one.

Quoted: No Iranians???  Not even a mention?  Hmmm.  Astounding.

It only mentions Arabs. Ethnically, Iranians are considered Persian, not Arab. Just like no Chechnyans are mentioned even though some have been killed there.

Quoted: No matter what ones opinion is if the war. One thing is clear. Instead of making the poor terrorists get plane tickets and come here, all they have to do is walk across the border to fight. Lets keep the fight there and away from our soil. No matter what they want us dead. and they want to die fighting us. Lets make their trip to the fight a short one.

QFE


(quoted for emphasis)

My Special Forces buddy has been telling me that since he got over there last Spring. I guess the media just takes a little longer to "get it".

Quoted: Out of 154 Arabs killed in Iraq, 33 carried out suicide attacks, as following: Saudi Arabia: 23* Syria: 5 Kuwait: 2 Libya: 1 Iraq: 1 Morocco: 1

READ his title..... It's about ALL of the dirtbags killed in the past six months.

The bit YOU snipped is only the suicide bombers not the whole shebang.

The 8.4% figure is taken from the 154 arab deaths in the last six months total.

Right in the first post.....

Quoted: My Special Forces buddy has been telling me that since he got over there last Spring. I guess the media just takes a little longer to "get it"be FORCED to report/admit it...

Fixed that for ya.

Quoted: On the other hand, it sure is an effective way to get rid of the extremists.

Damned straight. Better there than here.

Today, calling an insurgent a "raghead" on a news show or newspaper article would most certainly be met with strong reprimand.

As would calling a Jap a "Chink" during WWII - especially if the audience of your speach were Chinese - and the SOLE BASIS of the Japanese strategy was to convince the Chinese that the US was a greater enemy than the Japanese.  It is never wise to play into the hand of the enemy's propaganda.

So what is happening today in Iraq?  Is it a good thing that when bad things happen in Iraq, they are reported, or should those acts simply be forgotten?  It certainly hurts to war effort when things like Abu Ghraib and the Koran flushing stories go public, but wouldn't it be worse if Al-Jazeera found out about it and Americans were clueless that it happened?

My friend, you are the one sounding clueless.

In Germany during WWII, every German was helping with the war effort.  It was a stand up fight.  We were fighting a standing army, an air force, and a navy.  In Iraq, none of that exists, and not every Iraqi is the enemy.  How are we supposed to win?  Even top American brass has said that we cannot win militarily, only politically.  And how are we supposed to win politically if the people of Iraq show little effort on their own to get rid of the insurgents making their lives a living hell?  Don't you think many Iraqis know about terrorists in their neighborhood but never report about it either out of fear or indifference?

We are fighting this current effort - ON BEHALF OF THE CURRENT IRAQI GOVERNMENT - and have stayed here because they asked us to.  The Air Force, Navy, and Army you speak of was beaten and destroyed some time ago.  As for the rest of the nonsense - have you even lived in ANY large city?  You could say the same things about the Mafia - or the local gangbangers.  The shear number of Iraqis who risk life and limb fighting this war is far more than I would expect in the US - heck, the US Army can't even meet recruiting goals and we promise much higher pay and much lower risk of death.

Recruiting numbers are at an all time low, more people do not support the war than do, and violence is as high or higher than it was this time last year.  What do we do now?  I surely don't want this war to have been for nothing or the man and women of the military to have died for nothing, but how can we turn this mission into something as honorable as WWII was?

What have you done about it?  Fact is, more so-called "pro-war" Americans and their "raghead" stance do more to aid and abet the enemy and their propaganda machine than support the US war effort - so I don't know which "side" is on my side.  Fortunately, the majority of Iraqis see through hollow propaganda - and they just shrug off the hate and bigotry that comes from the very Americans who supposedly support them.  THAT, my friend, is the true puzzle here.  How do we win a war when the "pro-war" side is outwardly hostile to our desired end state - that of an independent and effective Iraq military?

Quoted: Quoted: Out of 154 Arabs killed in Iraq, 33 carried out suicide attacks, as following: Saudi Arabia: 23* Syria: 5 Kuwait: 2 Libya: 1 Iraq: 1 Morocco: 1 READ his title..... It's about ALL of the dirtbags killed in the past six months. The bit YOU snipped is only the suicide bombers not the whole shebang. The 8.4% figure is taken from the 154 arab deaths in the last six months total. Right in the first post.....

I had it wrong initially and corrected the subject.

Tagged

Wow, someone is actually trying to count and get to the bottom of this.

The media has known about this for years also,  they just don't want to admit it as it conflicts with their agenda.

Most people who follow events on the internet have known this for a good long while, even if they couldn't quantify it.