Sorry... after all UN bashing here, I'd like to come back with a happier subject, but this really impressed me.
Implication of what UN did are serious. The behavior and credibility of UN to me, after this, is definitively low. Unless there will be changements, under Kofi Annan management, UN will never more receive my support.

[url]http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/07/06/News/News.29875.html[/url]

The UN is just another government, unchoosen by any of it's subjects.  I owe no allegance to the UN and will always consider it an invading force, no matter the make up of it's armies.

Invading armies get one thing, a bullet, and no quarter, so they better fight hard.

I didnt read the whole article, though another reason i think Israel doesnt want any UN observers is so that the UN wont see the things like the bulldozing of civilian's houses or a well being filled with cement, or a woman or child getting killed by the Israelis, things that some how never manage to make it on to the American media.

Well, don't stand out in the open and throw stones and you won't get shot.  That is how most of these people wind up getting shot.  I was upset at first over the picture of the father and his dead son until the truth came out that he was shot by Palestinian riflemen.  If you were an Israeli soldier and someone was throwing rocks and firing at you, what would you do?  These women and kids being shot are not necessarily 'innocent'.  We learned that in Vietnam when women and kids would toss grenades into huts occupied by GI's.  It is against most guy's nature to shoot a woman or a kid, but sometimes you are left with no choice.

I am with Larry G on this one. That is why they call it WAR.

Tyler

Yes, very good point.  But i wasnt talking about the boy and his father.  I meant some of the other people who were killed, who were not tossing grenades or brandishing weapons, or the [b] suspected [/b] palestinian militants.  You also have a point about the rock thing, though i find it to be out of proportion that one guy throws a [i]rock[/i] and the other shoots and kills him with a [i]galil[/i].  

Hummmm. I don't think I'd throw a rock at ME if I had a gun in my hand. Some days I have a little tolerance and some days I don't. I think right now if you hit me with a rock I'd empty the forking mag in your a**!

My heart and soul are with Israel. There have been so many Israeli women and children killed by terrorists over the past fifty years with the gleeful approval of their Arab neighbors, that you will have to excuse me if I don't have much sympathy left to show to these newest 'victims.'  

You don't target a yellow school bus with an RPG or car bomb and think that you're doing the Lord's work!   Nor a marketplace full of civilian shoppers!

Strange that these Hezbollah & Hamas creeps don't go after Israeli military bases? Oh yeah, that's right, these terrorists would piss on themselves if they met with the IDF

If you don't want your children to be shot, don't let them throw rocks, don't close down the schools on the West Bank, and don't let Saudi Arabia offer US$10,000.00 to the families of the martyrs for the 'Intifadah.'

See story at[url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17707[/url]

Screw these Palestinian bastids, the darlings of the Western Press Corps, which alone is sufficient to tell me which side is on the right!

The Lord said 'I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee.'

I think we can pretty much agree that, at least up to this point, the ones cursing Israel have been pretty much cursed themselves!

Eric The(PrayForThePeaceOfJerusalem)Hun[>]:)]

how about if we arm the palistinians as well as we armed israel,then you'll see who has the biggest balls.i frankly don't give a damn who wins,in my opinion,they're both enemies of this country.[heavy]

Just how do you figure that Israel is our enemy?  The Palestinians ARE as well armed as the Israelis, except no tanks.  They have some pretty extensive backing, they are not the poor little babies that some make them out to be.  I believe that it has been proven several times who has the biggest balls.  Israel, on several occasions have been attacked by full blown armies (tanks and air cover included) of several countries and not only did not back down (big balls), but they also kicked booty.

Gentlemen,

I do not now have, nor have I ever at any time, had knowledge of this or any other tape pertaining to this particular incident.

Thank you.

[img]http://users.javanet.com/~jim1/images/gungrabber.gif[/img]

I don't think it's smart to throw rocks at guys with guns who already hate you. Remember, rocks can kill, and were the primary weapon of that area during biblical times. I've seen people with slings on the news. If someone used a sling and threw a rock at my head, and I had a gun they'd get one warning shot, then they'd be dead if a second rock came my way.

Israel will once again have peace when they stop trying to talk to someone who doesn't care and stop listening to the U.S. (until we give back TX and CA).

PaoloAR15, I've been gone for a few weeks but I'm glad to see you are still here. You were thinking about leaving a few weeks ago.

Please remember, as far as Eurobashing, we mostly hate the French. Something I feel in my heart even you can understand. Other than that we mostly like the people of Europe but are not always fond of their governments. But hey, we usually don't like ours either.

Yes, you are correct about Israel but that still doesn't mean the UN is good. Even Mussolini made the trains run on time.

Hey sharkey 30, don't you remember that in the state of Kalifornia that a brick or rock has been officially declared by a court of law not to be a deadly weapon.

That said, I read the complete article, and it is simply the same old thing with the un. They are like the fbi when they come in to help. Give them all the help, information and intelligence, and they will share absolutely nothing with you. In fact with the un, they are the one in africa back in the days when they went into the congo, it was to put a communist in power. If they go in, you can bet that they will cover up any atrocity that is done against Israel, however if Isreal retaliates, it will become a security council issue.

Back to the rocks, how many of us will stand still when a gang of thugs no matter what the age are attempting to bust your skull, hell I would bust a cap in their ass just like the Israelies do. As far as bull dozing the houses, when you have a fire zone, you don't give them an area to hide in youlevel the playing field.

[b]Eric[/b]-
Both sides have done some bad things, and i do NOT agree with the paestinians blowing up school buses and killing women and children.  But tell me, what about the women and children on the Palestinian side?  The ones who do not, as the link you give tries so very hard to show, go fighting with M16's and Kalashnikovs?  What happened to all the slingshots that everyone is talking about?  
    I am not saying that what is in the article is wrong, but that it really tries to exaggerate what is actually going on.  It makes it sound like the kids are singing revolutionary songs 24 hours a day, and that they are constantly in weapons training.  And WHATHAPPENED TO THE SLINGSHOTS AND ROCKS? You yourself point pointed them out at the end of your message. If they all have M16s, then why use a slingshot?  We all know how the media exaggerates.  I recall on one post, its title was "most hated media phrases" or something like that, you all named quite a few of these exaggerations, and i am not saying that the things mentioned in that article dont happen, but that it really condenses everything and makes it look like the palestinians are constantly doing those things.  Dont close down the schools on the West Bank so the kids cant throw rocks?  Well maybe they dont want to send their children, "whose parents dont care about them" the article implies to a school to get shot like sitting ducks.  And about your quote

'I will bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee.'-
I dont want to get into religion... I am not talking about Jews, I am talking about Israel.  


[b]Sharky30[/b]- keyword: helmet.  Though rocks are VERY provoking.  [:)]

[b]Lary G[/b].-  I know they are armed, but as you said, they dont have tanks (or helicopter's, or an airforce, or warships).  Though not all the palestinian fighters are armed with galils and rockets.  After all, what happened to the slingshots and rocks?  That seems to be what everybody is saying the palestinians keep doing to get shot... especially that article of Eric's, it says that the children are constantly throwing rocks at the israelis.  Think about it...  "The Mighty Unites States, taken down by a bunch of kids with slingshots".  At least that is what the article Eric points out, and what you are saying when you say " The Palestinians ARE as well armed as the Israelis".  The other arab nations, help them?  Tell me, except for hibulah and hamas, which arnt even countries, and are not fighting only the israeli government, how many other groups have tried to help them?  

No offense to anybody, And man... this topic has changed quite a bit, from UN bashing to this... sry
Crazy Monkey

     Soldiers usually wear helmets, and if somebody threw a rock at me, I would be angry... but not angry enough to kill 'im just cause i got a booboo [:)].  I wouldnt apreciate it that people are throwing rocks at me either.  Maybe a rubber bullet.  Though you have to understand that those people are angry at the israelis for taking their land.  And taking their homes in the process. You said that you would shoot someone if they threw a rock at you, but put your self in the palestinians shoes.  Someone bulldozes your house, or a relatives house, just so they can build a new house of their own on top of it.  You dont have a gun, so you use the next best thing: a rock.
   About what you said about buldozing houses.  Not all of the houses buldozed were used for shooting out of.  Most were just buldozed to expand the settlements.

Post from sluggolbc -

No thanks, the Soviets did an excellent job of arming the Arabs during the 50-60-70-80s, with their latest tanks, artillery pieces, etc., as well as beaucoup military advisers.

There's even indications that some fighter planes were being flown by Soviet pilots in the October War of 1973.

But to what end?

I have a picture on my desk of Gen. Ariel Sharon and a few of his generals on the East Bank of the Suez Canal on the evening of Oct. 15, 1973.  The picture was taken by one of the general's drivers, who is a friend of mine.  All of the generals are carrying captured Maadi AKMs! and are looking West across the Canal.  Within a hour of taking the picture, the 143rd Ugda, commanded by Gen. Sharon was on the West Bank of the Canal, using pontoon bridges. Later the next day the entire Egyptian 3rd Army was surrounded!

There was not another Egyptian command between Gen Sharon's group and Cairo!

It was at this point that Brezhnev called upon Pres. Nixon to 'call of the Jews' or face the possibility of Soviet intervention to protect their client state.

Rather than risk bringing their ally, the US, into a direct confrontation with the Soviets, the Israelis agreed to a ceasefire!  They could have reduced the entire 3rd Army to scrapmetal and corpses, and probably assured their own miltary superiority in the Sinai for many generations to come, but they relented and withdrew.

They did all the World a great service by simply demolishing the Iraqi nuclear reactor in 1981, with a daring air raid.

And again in the Gulf War, when Iraqi scud missiles were raining down on their cities, and rumors of 'gas' warheads on the scuds (imagine, if you're a Jew, what memories a 'gas' attack might bring!) they did [u]precisely[/u] what the first Bush Administration asked, and did not retaliate against Saddam, a move that would have blown the Gulf War Coalition, with its Arab nation contingent, apart.

Yeah, I'd say Israel has been our true friend.

Eric The(SoWhose'Balls'AreBigger???)Hun[>]:)]

Why do the militants continue to use phones?  Don't they know that's a method of assassination employed by the Israelis?

Post from CrazyMonkey -

And your basis or source for saying that it's simply an exaggeration would be...?

How about this for an exaggeration - the PLA says that Mohammed al-Dura, a Palestinian youth, was deliberately murdered by the Israel Defense Forces.

See the story in that vile WorldNetDaily.com -
[url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15101[/url]

See also - [url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18773[/url]

Does our friend Alan Keyes' thoughts on the matter persuade you? See [url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=23173[/url]

And if you really want to get a feel for the motivation of the Palestinian rock-throwing youths, just look at this story.  This staged photo near the midpoint of the story, tells us all we need to know about your favorite 'rocks and slingshots'!!!
[url]http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18774[/url]

The photo shows a Palestinian youth obviously putting on a show, complete with draped PLO flag, for the Western Press photographers -
[url]http://worldnetdaily.com/images/20001204_xndku_who_really_7.jpg[/url]

Eric The(ShabatShalom)Hun[>]:)]

Yes, the UN did take some of Palestine and set it aside as a homeland for the Jews. Funny how you don't hear the "Palestinians" calling for the return of what's now called Jordan, isn't it? Jordan was carved out of Palestine just like Israel was. I'm sorry, but the "Palestinians" lost any claim they might have had to that land after the Israelis kicked their asses in '48, not to mention '56, '67, and '73. If the "Palestinians" still have a claim to Israeli land won in war, then the British (or Indians, Spanish, etc) still have a claim to YOUR family's land that was either bought or won in a war.

Eric-

I read the articles.  Now about what Alan Keys said, all that stuff about Israel being the U.S.' close friend, look at the link posted by P.R.K. ( [url] www.aci.net/kalliste/pollard_em.htm[/url] )
Another article says that, I know for a fact that this is not true.  I have taken an islamic studies class, and the  only thing the article says on this subject that is true, is that they are garanteed heaven.
   The staged picture of the man with the plo flag- is there anything wrong with a patriotic display?  Can you read his intentions?  Can the reporters?  How do you know that he wanted to "generate sympathy"?  Isnt the pledge of alegence or fireworks on the fourth of july a display?



There is evidence, though there is no evidence to show that that was the intention.  It is an [b]opinion[/b] that he was killed in cold blood.  

You question where I got the information that the palestinan children are not being taught to go fight and kill 24 hours a day?  I have quite a few palestinian friends who say that once in a while, someone sings a song, but it it not going on 24 hours a day.  They dont go to school to sing.  They have to learn too, right?  But dont think the only reason that i am siding with the palestinians is because these friends convinced me.  I have quite a few friends from Israel (my best friend is jewish).

I really have to question some of these articles though.  They do give a lot of information, though they fail to give some of the other little details.   For example, when they talk about the woman whose husband was killed along with another man in Ramallah, they fail to mention that quite a few palestinians wee killed at the same time.  I was watching the report on CNN as it was happening.  I also question the fact not one sentence in any of these articles says anything about what the israelis have done, while they manage to point out every detail of what the palestinians have done.  Dont tell me all those things on CNN and NPR are lies...  I remember when they said on CNN that a panestinian had been killed, but I also remember when they said that an Israeli had been killed.  They seem to be a bit more impartial than this news source.  

Anyone here remember the U.S.S. Liberty?

Good point.  The Palestinians (no quotation marks) lost their land fair and square.  But, they were given some land back.  I dont think it is right that israel should take the land (that they gave in the first place) just to build their homes on it.  You mention the Indians, whom the United States government herded into reservations.  Do you think it would be right for the U.S. to go build on the reservations, just to expand our cities?

Actually the only thing that seems out of proportion is the STUPDITY of someone who throws a rock at someone they know will SHOOT them.  If you are stupid enough to do the former, you deserve the latter.

There seem to be some anti-Israel posts here that condemn the Israelis, no matter what.  I garauntee that if the Palestinians would stop the terrorist attacks and the everyday incidents on the streets, the Israelis would not be shooting them.

Right about the first part, it is stupid, but i it out of proportion to be killed for throwing a rock.  I dont think it is as simple as stoppig the terrorist attcks though.  Why are there terrorist attcks?  And tell me where do most of these attacks take place?  Are they in places like Tel-Aviv, or are they in the settlemnts?  The settlements.  The palestinians dont want the settlements, and I am not necesarily saying remove them, but i think a good solution would be to stop expanding them on to more palestinian land.

BTW Who could be making those anti-israel posts? [:D]  

I don't know, just a wild guess.[8D]

This was intended as a UN bashing session.
It is going on about the Israeli bad ones and Palestinians good ones and vice versa.

To Crazy Monkey: I would like that US, for a while, would be full of many Tim McVeigh in the islamic version, and YOUR govt. would fight to make its citiziens to survive. I Would like that your mother and your father, but only for a while, EVERY TIME they go out to a mall for shopping have to continuosly look around for clues of a possible terrorist attack. You Would understand fully what the Israelis are feeling and experimenting now. Of course I would like that Palestinians have a land too. But they proved that they don't want to achieve this goal in a peaceful way. Otherwise in Camp David they could easily start to achieve the birth of their nation and with the help of the Israeli society.

The actual Palestine, before 1948, was a waste land, desertic, with no industries, no agriculture and with the so called Palestinians in strong emigration.

I want only to remark the initial topic: UN is not worthing our trust... once more!!!