User Panel
Posted: 2/21/2005 5:55:26 PM EDT
They were delivered in a week, shells as long as my hand delivered, no questions asked, by UPS. I could have even bought tracer rounds, if I had wanted. Now it was time to get the gun.
(on camera): What we're about to do is perfectly legal in dozens of states where cash-and-carry is the rule, a private seller, a private buyer. There will be no background check, no government waiting period, no government paperwork at all. In fact, the only paper that will change hands is the money we use to buy our .50- caliber rifle. (voice-over): The transaction at a house in suburban Houston took about 20 minutes. We walked out with a case holding the gun critics say is the perfect terrorist weapon, a brand new .50-caliber with scope, bipod and directions. We flew home. Guns are checked as baggage. And when the bags arrived for our flight, I simply picked it up and left. So he went to Texas from Atlanta and got a 50 caliber rifle? |
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So lets call the ATF.
They did break the law. Would make a hell of a follow up. And if he didn't actually purchase it, then it was an illegal straw purchase. |
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I'm calling the BATFE tomorrow.
They're not going to get away with this shyt! |
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sweet, time to meet your new room mate Bubba, and he "loves" pretty white boys.
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Wanna bet? |
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I would go national, they crossed state lines. |
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I have searched CNN.com and cannot find the story...
I found a video but I dont have RealPlayer. Anyone have a link to the story ?? LB |
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I've got a copy of the transcript.
Never seen the story. I will go over it with a comb. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/17/pzn.01.html |
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Definate no-no in eyes of ATF
Contact ATF local bureau and have them send you up the chain to national. CNN will either have to prove they lied in the story, or be prosecuted for Straw Purchase. |
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The SOB is out of ATLANTA!
And he went to Texas to get a 50 BMG and have someone buy it for HIM! CRC |
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Seriously, keep us posted. |
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Part of the transcript which reveals ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PAULA ZAHN NOW Armor-Piercing Weapons Easy to Acquire?; Connecting With BTK; President Nominates John Negroponte For National Intelligence Director Aired February 17, 2005 - 20:00 ET THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED. PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Welcome. Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Tonight, how is it that you can get your hands on an armor- piercing military weapon with no questions asked? (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN (voice-over): It's the most powerful rifle you can buy. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow. Right through. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right through it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right through it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's where it went in, 1-inch steel plate. ZAHN: Just a few clicks and some cold, hard cash, no background checks, no registration. DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Should there be any regulations on your guns? RONNIE BARRETT, BARRETT MANUFACTURING: There should be regulations on criminals. ZAHN: CNN bought a fearsome .50. Who else is in the market? And on the CNN "Security Watch," he's the accountant in the next seat, until: UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police officer! Drop the gun! ZAHN: On duty, on alert and on the plane, air marshals along for the ride. (END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: We begin tonight with that gun that is so powerful, it can actually pierce armor from more than a mile away. Don't even think about what it can do to a human being. In most places, getting one is perfectly legal. But at least one congressman wants it banned because he says -- quote -- "It is a clear and present danger to the public safety." Here is our own investigative reporter, Drew Griffin. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GRIFFIN: To buy a gun, even a .50-caliber gun, this huge gun, you just need to go to your computer and click on one of the biggest classified gun sites, which, in our case, is GunsAmerica.com, AK-47s, shotguns, pistols, all kinds of rifles. But we wanted to buy was the biggest caliber rifle you could possibly buy. And that's this category right here, big .50-caliber rifles. This is the gun that is now banned in California. And on this Web site, we have about three dozen of them for sale. But what we're looking for is one that is not being sold by a dealer. See, where it says federal licensed firearm dealer? We are trying to find one that's being sold by just a private citizen. This is actually the gun we bought. When you finally find the gun you want on this Web site and you're dealing with a private party, you just give him your e-mail and you send him a note. "Let's set up a meeting. I'm paying cash." And the next thing you know, we're going to buy our gun. (voice-over): But before I shelled out $2,500 to buy this gun, I wanted to make sure I could buy ammunition. That turned out to be as easy as ordering flowers. With just a couple of clicks on my computer, I ordered and paid by credit card for 50 .50-caliber armor- piercing rounds. They were delivered in a week, shells as long as my hand delivered, no questions asked, by UPS. I could have even bought tracer rounds, if I had wanted. Now it was time to get the gun. (on camera): What we're about to do is perfectly legal in dozens of states where cash-and-carry is the rule, a private seller, a private buyer. There will be no background check, no government waiting period, no government paperwork at all. In fact, the only paper that will change hands is the money we use to buy our .50- caliber rifle. (voice-over): The transaction at a house in suburban Houston took about 20 minutes. We walked out with a case holding the gun critics say is the perfect terrorist weapon, a brand new .50-caliber with scope, bipod and directions. We flew home. Guns are checked as baggage. And when the bags arrived for our flight, I simply picked it up and left. Ronnie Barrett, who manufactures .50-caliber rifles, believes, as an American, it is your right to own one. (on camera): Isn't that particular gun in the hands a terrorist dangerous? BARRETT: We're not talking about terrorists. We're just arming here civilians. These laws have nothing to do with terrorism. GRIFFIN: Barrett's company makes one of the most popular and top-of-the-line .50-caliber rifles on the market, a semiautomatic favored by armies around the world. But Barrett says his company couldn't survive on military orders alone and what keeps all these workers busy is its popularity among recreational shooters. Barrett says it may be effective on the battlefield, but, on the target range, it's just plain fun. (on camera): Should there be any regulations on your guns? BARRETT: There should be regulations on criminals. GRIFFIN (voice-over): Gun control advocates want a federal ban on this weapon. Their reasoning, anything that can hit a target at 1,000 yards with the bullet the size of a small artillery shell could certainly pose a major threat to aircraft. (on camera): But the question at most of the nation's airports is not what you could do with a .50-caliber gun at 1,000 yards. Here at LAX, a would-be terrorist could get within less than 1,000 feet. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop. Turn the machine off. (voice-over): This week, at a police gun range, I found out what this gun could do to the emergency exit door of a Boeing 727 fired from 1,000 feet away. The gun is very heavy, not easy to maneuver, but took only a few moments to set up. The first time I fired it, I missed. After adjusting for the sight, round after armor-piercing round went straight through the door. But just about any gun could pierce the thin aluminum skin of the airplane. What scares law enforcement is what else this round can do when fired from this gun. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Here you go. GRIFFIN: This is a 1-inch thick piece of steel plate, more protection than almost any armored car. The .50-caliber goes right through the aircraft door and right through one-inch steel. (on camera): Wow. Right through. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right through it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right through it, baby. GRIFFIN: That's where it came out. That's where it went in, 1- inch steel plate. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable. Just unbelievable. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My goodness. (END VIDEOTAPE) ZAHN: Just sitting here watching, you shoot, made me feel the power of that weapon. And you have got a guy out there, Drew, like Congressman Moran who is saying this weapon is powerful enough to bring down a jet. What is the reality? GRIFFIN: Well, the opponents say it's true. The reality is, can you put a bullet into an engine? Can you put it through a fuel tank? Can you put it through a cockpit? Yes. Is that enough to down a commercial airliner, probably not. Could it cripple an airliner, create an emergency? I think you would have to say the answer is yes. ZAHN: So, beyond Congressman Moran and the people supporting his point of view, how worried is the intelligence community or anybody in the government about this weapon? GRIFFIN: They're certainly concerned, especially in the Secret Service, about protecting individuals when you have something that can shoot through steel plate. How widespread is this gun in criminal elements? It's really never been used domestically in a criminal event. So I -- they don't draw on any experience that this gun was involved, but, certainly, it is a choice weapon in a military field. And, you know, soldiers love this gun because of its deterrent factor. ZAHN: But it was remarkable to watch you do this transaction in about a 20-minute period. Now, we should make it clear you went to a private seller. GRIFFIN: That's right. ZAHN: To purchase this gun. Why? GRIFFIN: On the Internet, you learn all the new nuances and all the loopholes of buying a gun. If I bought that through a licensed dealer, I'd have to clear a background check. I would have to show proof of age, proof of residency. By going through a private seller, private seller, private buyer, it's strictly a cash transaction. We made sure that the two, the buyer and the seller, were in the same state. And after that, cash and carry. ZAHN: Isn't that astonishing to you? GRIFFIN: It was to me. I'm not a gun person. I've never bought a gun before in my life. And to see how easy this was to do and how easy it was, even easier, to get these armor-piercing bullets, it was incredible. ZAHN: What was the most surprising thing that you learned about this weapon? GRIFFIN: I think the most surprising thing I learned about it is that a person who has no experience with guns could go out there on the Internet, get armor-piercing bullets, buy a gun, bring it home, and, within two shots, hit a target 1,000 feet away. ZAHN: And that's what happened to you, right? GRIFFIN: That's exactly what happened. ZAHN: So, it was on the third shot you hit that steel door. GRIFFIN: Second shot. ZAHN: Second shot. Wow. Scary stuff. Drew Griffin, thank you. GRIFFIN: Thank you. ZAHN: Nice to have you up here with us in New York. We're going to change our focus now to a letter-writing killer at it again, but this time, with a difference. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) |
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So how would it be legal for Mr Griffin to get that 50 BMG back to Georgia from Texas without an FFL?
Some dick just gave him a $2500 rifle? CRC |
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Did my post in this thread disappear, or is there another thread?
(don't want to scream DUPE in a crowded theatre, but also don't want to dupe myself) ETA: found it - more outraged arfcommer's here: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=326337 |
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Use available resources. Call the NRA they have the lobby and the voice. They could use this to show that when handled legally there is no problem. It would also force the point to the media that they are not beyond reach. If you or I did that we would go to jail and they would do a story about how bad a person we are etc...but if they do it it is ok.
Something like this seems ideal to get some attention/payback. Just my thoughts. |
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U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives 15355 Vantage Parkway West Suite 200 Houston, Texas 77032-1960 (281) 372-2900 Fax: (281) 372-2919 |
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Tip off the straw purchase the Brady Campgain did to the Maryland (I think) PD. |
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Edit: nevermind, thanks for putting up the transcript.
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i'll bet it was all set up for the cameras. Probably just "borrowing" some guy who works for CNN in TX's gun. At least thats the story you will hear if the ATF looks into it. They just lie about how they got it so that people watching will be scared.
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+1 This is just as bad as the FL sherrif using a Full Auto claiming it is an "off the rack AK". |
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Even if they "borrowed it", it is illegal to fly it to another state without going through an FFL. They are ponting out a lack of enforcement, not a lack of laws. They just do not realize that. |
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Griffin admits he eventually gets possession of the gun and shoots it.
He never says where. It sounds like the guy bought the gun WITH GRIFFEN'S 2500 DOLLARS and then gave it to him and he took it back to Atlanta. So the way I read it Griffen gave the "Texas resident" 2500 to buy him a certain gun. CRC |
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call the ATF hotline.
You can leave a anonymous message just leave a message. 1-800-ATF-GUNS (1-800-283-4867) FREE |
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We made sure that the two, the buyer and the seller, were in the same state. And after that, cash and carry.
SORRY BUD but merely being in the same state does not make it legal w/o an FFL. |
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THANKS! |
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I sent a email with a link to the transcript and a list of the possible offenses.
LB PS I have sent the family dog off into hiding for a unspecified amount of time.... |
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I think the only way they can get around this is to say.... The guy who really bought the gun lives in Texas, he bought it spot cash face-to-face. He then escorted the gun across state lines, let CNN do their thing with it, then took it back home. Though I hope they don't figure that out. |
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http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2005/02/did-cnn-just-commit-gun-crime.html
http://www.triggerfinger.org/weblog/ The bloggers are on this too! |
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18 US Code: "A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his or her state, if the buy is not prohibited by law from receiving or possessing a firearm, or to a licensee in any state..." Further: "A person may only buy a firearm within a persons own state, except that he or she may buy rifle or a shotgun in person at a licensees'(FFL) premises in any state, provided the sale complies with state laws applicable in the state of sale, and the state where the purchasor resides. In other words, you CANNOT buy or sell a handgun to a person of another state, unless it goes through an FFL licensed person. I can walk into a gun store in Texas (I'm a Louisiana resident) and buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL licensee, but cannot buy a handgun in another state, other than La., from an FFL or anyone else. You can check this out at ATF's website at: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm and go to the FAQ in Adobe format.
I've only bought long guns out of state through an FFL. |
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tagging this so that I have both threads covered for when the results of the ATF call are posted
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+1 |
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922. Unlawful acts (a) It shall be unlawful - (1) for any person - (A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce... Why, yes, flying to another state to conduct the purchase would count as "receiving a firearm in interstate commerce". (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State... Why yes, flying home with it is also a crime. Here's the plain-language explanation, from the ATF's FAQ: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? A person may only buy a firearm within the person s own State, except that he or she may buy a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. So the short answer is, you can buy a firearm out of your state of residence from a licensed dealer only. CNN's story involves a private sale; they make an explicit point of that in their voiceover. For those who are wondering if these rules include the modifications in the Firearms Owner's Protection Act, the answer is yes. Later in that same document, the transportation rules from that law are described: May a nonlicensee transport firearms for sporting or other lawful purposes? Yes. Federal law provides a person, who is not prohibited by the GCA from receiving or transporting firearms, the right to transport a firearm under certain conditions, notwithstanding State or local law to the contrary. The firearms must be unloaded and in a locked trunk or, in a vehicle lacking a trunk, in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Also, the carrying and possession must be lawful at the place of origin and destination. Because of that, I will take this data as reflecting the current state of the law. CNN fucked up big. But will they get prosecuted? We'll have to wait and see. |
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The 1986 FOPA changed the law so one could buy a rifle or shotgun out of state but only at an FFL!
CNN meet Agent Schmuckatelli- he wants to talk to you. |
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Can't he buy it as an agent of CNN (corporation)? I'm sure that CNN has a presence in Texas and every other state out there.
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They would have needed to mention that little fact in their article. |
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Hey, I don't know TX laws or the whole Straw purchase stuff either. Anybody want to help educate me so that when I call ATF tomorrow to complain I don't sounds like some dumb hillbilly!?
(No offense to the Hillbillys in here! U probably know more than me! ) ....probably. |
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Dupe... http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=326337
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