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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:11:04 PM EDT
If China strikes US assets as part of their campaign against Taiwan, should America fight back or withdraw from the Pacific?
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:13:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: No major disagreement, just confirming a couple war games did feature our losing 2 carriers. It’s war games, what really happens remains to be seen. Our subs will be the tip of the spear imo I agree on this. My concerns with war games are the human element and the opponent's losses. Xi is not as secure as some think. Could a war with heavy losses by China cause a civil backlash? I don't know the answer. Xi seems to be fearful of starting a war he can't win easily. A "Chairman of Everything" is a leader of nothing. He can't do it all. Pilots are not getting the training needed to match our pilots. The Navy is large but can't maintain their ships much less sustain a war tempo. Logistics is everything. A carrier that can't stay at sea for more than a week is not an asset. Where it goes so does its escorts. A carrier in port is a sitting duck in a war zone. A fleet in port is a turkey shoot waiting to happen. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:57:17 AM EDT
[#2]
I would not be surprised if we had to assign detachments of Marines widespread on ships to enforce discipline and maintain order. It's an old tradition. When this happens I will consider things getting close.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 4:38:35 AM EDT
[#3]
Fuck china and Mccarther was right. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 4:53:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By K30MuleLAR15: Fuck china and Mccarther was right. Yes, Macarthur was correct. Patton had the same desire to defeat the communists too. We would be much better off today if we would have listened to our warriors instead of politicians. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 5:45:45 AM EDT
[#5]
We need microchips, so yes.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:16:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Drivel, drivel, drivel. Go back to your Dungeons & Dragons fantasy. Leave reality for the adults. It is supposedly more persuasive because you've repeated it thricely? lol Who then, pray tell, makes the "rules" in the "international rules based order?" There's a synonym for an "international rules based order". Care to guess what it is? Look, we disagree. You think an analysis in terms of Empire is cynical "fantasy." I think well meaning people like yourself are frightfully naive. It doesn't make you morally wrong, it does, however, make you susceptible to manipulation based on your good nature. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:23:08 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Should we remove all American assets from the Pacific to ensure they aren't struck by China? China isn't striking our assets China and the US have economies that our codependent on eachother. The US will likely turn a blind eye to a Taiwan take over. Outside of some fane fare where our leaders come out and say "We do not condone the actions of ....." |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:27:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: It is unbelievably insane to even think we can exist without imports and exports. It would be national economic suicide. They don't understand how an economy works... and it isn't worth trying to explain. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:35:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FoxValleyTacDriver]
[#9]
China has 2.5 million troops currently active duty and in reserves. They have 700 million military aged and capable individuals they could draft for conventional warfare.
Our army is struggling to pull 400k active duty together. Conventional war with China would be a mess. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:45:28 AM EDT
[#10]
A strong America could have but we're not - so the answer is NO
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:47:45 AM EDT
[#11]
In retrospect, I don't think we should ever have made commitments to defend Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War ended. We should have let the two competing factions settle their own internal dispute. At the time Communism was spreading all over Europe and our main goal was to stop it so I won't blame Truman and Eisenhauer for what was done, but it was a mistake. The leadership of Taiwan at the time was utterly corrupt.
Now I think we have two choices. Continue to honor those misguided commitments made by our Country in the past and potentially have a global nuclear war as a result with hydrogen bombs falling on the US and Chinese mainlands. Or we publicly announce that we will not use military force against China as long as they do not use military force against us. Tell them how far we will go in imposing sanctions and financially punishing them if they use force to retake the island. But we should make it clear that ANY attack on US forces anywhere in the world by China will be met by considered an act of war and met by an immediate launch of strategic nuclear weapons against the Chinese mainland. Any attack on Taiwan will be met with financial and diplomatic responses. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 6:57:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TomB7777: In retrospect, I don't think we should ever have made commitments to defend Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War ended. We should have let the two competing factions settle their own internal dispute. At the time Communism was spreading all over Europe and our main goal was to stop it so I won't blame Truman and Eisenhauer for what was done, but it was a mistake. The leadership of Taiwan at the time was utterly corrupt. Now I think we have two choices. Continue to honor those misguided commitments made by our Country in the past and potentially have a global nuclear war as a result with hydrogen bombs falling on the US and Chinese mainlands. Or we publicly announce that we will not use military force against China as long as they do not use military force against us. Tell them how far we will go in imposing sanctions and financially punishing them if they use force to retake the island. But we should make it clear that ANY attack on US forces anywhere in the world by China will be met by considered an act of war and met by an immediate launch of strategic nuclear weapons against the Chinese mainland. Any attack on Taiwan will be met with financial and diplomatic responses. Our best play is to appear strong enough that military action is pointless. They will be much less likely to statt something if they expect to lose. Appearing week invites an attack. |
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OK, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 7:16:18 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JaredC1: The biggest thing I miss about having a membership isn’t the green arrows. It’s the ignore feature. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JaredC1: Originally Posted By TheTallest: Originally Posted By jaqufrost: Originally Posted By TheTallest: Fuck taiwan. Fuck china. Fuck iran. Fuck ukraine. Fuck russia. Fuck israel. Fuck Palestine. Fuck all of them. Not our circus not our monkeys. We should close all bases in taiwan and the middle east and anywhere else where we are hated. It's time we stop policing the world and start taking care of our own. Let them fight their own battles and solve their own problems. Oh I know what's coming next, 'But day makes 99% of all da cheeps we use in our electronics.' Who. Fucking. Cares. We're perfectly capable of making our own shit. We should start doing it again. Fuck taiwan. The biggest thing I miss about having a membership isn’t the green arrows. It’s the ignore feature. There’s so much ignorance in his post. Basically every statement/assertion he makes is wrong. He couldn’t be more wrong if he tried. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 7:18:03 AM EDT
[#14]
No, we should only fight to protect Israel.
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OK, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 7:19:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RikWriter:   Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RikWriter: Originally Posted By belchfire: Fuck no only defend our country. Bring our war machine home and our money. Enforce our borders and take the money and fight cancer. I don’t understand why they don’t understand that the bases, the navy, the war machine abroad etc is what defends our country, and our way of life. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 7:25:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Carpet nuke it.
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USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 7:38:43 AM EDT
[#17]
I voted yes in the poll because the question was posed as if American assets were hit in the process of the invasion of Taiwan. That is an act of war which should result in us fucking up China to the best of our ability. If no US assets are hit the question becomes more complicated.
I will say I am widely opposed to foreign conflicts for the hell of it. However, isolationism does not work. We tried that before and it brought us Pearl Harbor. Sometimes being involved in foreign conflicts is in the national security interests of the US, not just the economic interests. We start to withdraw from these places and China will replace the void. Having all the military capabilities in the world won't mean shit if China replaces us on the world stage because at that point they could do whatever the fuck they want to us, and it wouldn't be Taiwan we would be worried about. As are most things in life, it's not a total sum game. It's not focus all on Taiwan and ignore what's happening here. The problem isn't that we ate incapable of doing multiple things at once, it's that the .gov refuses to. The border is unsecured on purpose. Pulling troops back CONUS won't stop that. We need a strong leader who will project power abroad and who will utilize ALL means to secure our border. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 7:42:09 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: No major disagreement, just confirming a couple war games did feature our losing 2 carriers. It’s war games, what really happens remains to be seen. Our subs will be the tip of the spear imo This checks with what I’ve heard. And while I’m not making light of those loses in both men and materials, they are a lot smaller than the casualty estimates running around for a ground conflict in Eastern Europe or with North Korea. Ground war will exponentially increase our number of dead and injured. The one good thing here is that it doesn’t look like a conflict over Taiwan would be a lot more than naval/air/space/cyberspace. Provided it doesn’t prompt another theater going hot. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:11:43 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By primuspilum: China will not invade Taiwan. A relevant snippet from one of my posts in the other thread: Also, a (rhetorical) question: In WWII, why did we "liberate" the Philippines instead of choosing to invade Formosa (i.e., Taiwan)? Admiral King (the Boss of Bosses in the Pacific in WWII) wanted to invade Formosa. It didn't happen. Probably the only time what Admiral King wanted didn't happen in WWII. Why? Was it because MacArthur "shall return" to the Philippines? Mac's return to honor his promise makes a nice propaganda story but that's not why we took the Philippines instead of Taiwan (Formosa). It was because all the planners, after carefully studying the feasibility of an invasion of Formosa thought it was an undoable nonstarter. For reasons not the least of which was physical geography and impossibility of securing landing forces afloat from attack. I think that calculus still applies. No way, IMO, China could do it. If Admiral King couldn't force it through in WWII, that tells you how hard a nut it is to crack. The geography hasn't changed that much from WWII. China can't get it done and they know it. The only way they'd try is if "national humiliation" (as in the Century of Humiliation) is in play, because then China sees Taiwan as an existential issue. Short of that? I don't think it happens. Under any circumstances. Russia will never invade Ukraine. Remember when GD experts said that? I do. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:12:55 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Originally Posted By THOT_Vaccine: Largely because 3nm isn't in the cards. The physics (or even the theory of the physics for 3) do not exist. Much less any sort of practical implementation. Even the"5nm" chips are actually 7nm gates.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEphyWRPzpILol 3nm is in full production for both TSMC and Samsung. Wait until you see what’s next… |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:14:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By primuspilum: If we don't honor our commitments, we can't expect anyone else to honor them either. Either we have an imperfect international system based on binding agreements, or we have a chaotic international anarchy. We achieved the Pax Americana by being willing to deal. It's been a pretty good run. We dealt with the Soviets, who were way worse than the Chinese. (Pro Tip: up until 1956, the Chinese were subcontractors for the Soviets-anything they did up until 56 was under direct supervision/permission of the USSR). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By primuspilum: Originally Posted By mooreshawnm: I'd say we owe the fuckers for 1950 and 2019 and I couldn't give a shit about an agreement in 1972. If we don't honor our commitments, we can't expect anyone else to honor them either. Either we have an imperfect international system based on binding agreements, or we have a chaotic international anarchy. We achieved the Pax Americana by being willing to deal. It's been a pretty good run. We dealt with the Soviets, who were way worse than the Chinese. (Pro Tip: up until 1956, the Chinese were subcontractors for the Soviets-anything they did up until 56 was under direct supervision/permission of the USSR). Neither the Chinese nor the Russians have been particularly good about honoring such commitments… |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:23:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Intel has a shit track record for promised release dates and performance hence their 9% market share https://www.techspot.com/news/101314-intel-ceo-claims-18a-node-least-match-tsmc.html https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1769_jpeg-3170592.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1770_jpeg-3170593.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1771_jpeg-3170594.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1772_jpeg-3170595.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_1773_jpeg-3170596.JPG Intel is making progress. They have a long way to go to catch TSMC or Samsung, IMO. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:25:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TxRabbitBane]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By primuspilum: The Japanese in the 1860's were living at a Medieval level with no "industry" in a Western sense, whatsoever to speak of. By 1905 they defeated a major European power with their own first class modern navy at the Battle of Tsushima. We can make anything. But for the people who rule us who prevent us from making anything. All it requires is the willpower to get it done. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By primuspilum: Originally Posted By AzzFaceKillah: If we don't then where we gonna get microchips? And don't we have some treaty with em? The Japanese in the 1860's were living at a Medieval level with no "industry" in a Western sense, whatsoever to speak of. By 1905 they defeated a major European power with their own first class modern navy at the Battle of Tsushima. We can make anything. But for the people who rule us who prevent us from making anything. All it requires is the willpower to get it done. No, in this case it requires will and technical ability that we don’t have. You don’t know how long it takes to develop this technology and build the facilities to manufacture it. The world is a very different place than it was a century ago. 25 years ago was a lifetime when it comes to technology. 90 nanometer gates was considered cutting edge then. That process node broke US fabs, so they basically quit. The development since then is exponential. There is no “snap your fingers” solution. The US isn’t catching up in the next 20 years. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:41:51 AM EDT
[#24]
I'd love to hear all about how we would break a Chinese blockade of Taiwan should the island declare independence.
Taiwan imports 98% of the energy sources it needs along with a vast majority of its food needs. How long would Taiwan be making our precious chips and how will we get them out of there? https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/taiwan-aims-shed-dirty-power-reputation-with-big-wind-push-maguire-2023-09-28/#:~:text=Taiwan%20currently%20imports%20roughly%2098,data%20from%20think%20tank%20Ember Meanwhile, in the USA. Total imports (from Canada, Mexico, Mailand China, and everyone else) to the USA equaled about 15% of our total annual GDP in '21. https://www.statista.com/topics/3840/us-imports/#topicOverview Imports from Taiwan amounted to +-- 2.5% of total US imports in 2022 and mainland China's about +-16% of total US imports. https://www.trade.gov/country-commercial-guides/taiwan-market-overview#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20exports%20to%20Taiwan,percent%20of%20total%20U.S.%20imports https://ustr.gov/countries-regions#:~:text=U.S.%20goods%20imports%20from%20the,percent%20of%20total%20goods%20imports |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:48:09 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: I agree on this. My concerns with war games are the human element and the opponent's losses. Xi is not as secure as some think. Could a war with heavy losses by China cause a civil backlash? I don't know the answer. Xi seems to be fearful of starting a war he can't win easily. A "Chairman of Everything" is a leader of nothing. He can't do it all. Pilots are not getting the training needed to match our pilots. The Navy is large but can't maintain their ships much less sustain a war tempo. Logistics is everything. A carrier that can't stay at sea for more than a week is not an asset. Where it goes so does its escorts. A carrier in port is a sitting duck in a war zone. A fleet in port is a turkey shoot waiting to happen. I suspect the PLA-N will be more challenging than that but I also don’t see them as 10 feet tall or unstoppable either |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:50:49 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By primuspilum: It is supposedly more persuasive because you've repeated it thricely? lol Who then, pray tell, makes the "rules" in the "international rules based order?" There's a synonym for an "international rules based order". Care to guess what it is? Look, we disagree. You think an analysis in terms of Empire is cynical "fantasy." I think well meaning people like yourself are frightfully naive. It doesn't make you morally wrong, it does, however, make you susceptible to manipulation based on your good nature. I welcome all sincere discussion pro and con. So I’m glad your posting more frequently again even if we don’t see eye to eye on this issue |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:54:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TomB7777: In retrospect, I don't think we should ever have made commitments to defend Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War ended. We should have let the two competing factions settle their own internal dispute. At the time Communism was spreading all over Europe and our main goal was to stop it so I won't blame Truman and Eisenhauer for what was done, but it was a mistake. The leadership of Taiwan at the time was utterly corrupt. Now I think we have two choices. Continue to honor those misguided commitments made by our Country in the past and potentially have a global nuclear war as a result with hydrogen bombs falling on the US and Chinese mainlands. Or we publicly announce that we will not use military force against China as long as they do not use military force against us. Tell them how far we will go in imposing sanctions and financially punishing them if they use force to retake the island. But we should make it clear that ANY attack on US forces anywhere in the world by China will be met by considered an act of war and met by an immediate launch of strategic nuclear weapons against the Chinese mainland. Any attack on Taiwan will be met with financial and diplomatic responses. China has already incorporated measures and steps to mitigate some financial and diplomatic responses after watching what happened with Russia in Ukraine. They openly talk about it in China state news |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:55:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: You could tell China that any military action against us will be met by nukes but they wouldn't believe us. Kind of like how we don't believe Putin every time he throws thr nuke card around. Our best play is to appear strong enough that military action is pointless. They will be much less likely to statt something if they expect to lose. Appearing week invites an attack. deterrence has already failed, we’re sliding into what happens after deterrence failure |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 8:58:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Yes we should go to war...but wait until our military is compromised by DACA and DEI from top to bottom...
and all our hardware has been sent to Ukraine... I cannot imagine Biden and Company fighting China...a dementia patient CIC...awww comeon man. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:32:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CarmelBytheSea]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BroomSlayer: Killing the British to come out from under their thumb? That was a pretty good reason I'd say. Otherwise we would be a bunch of cucks like the Canadians. But there is a huge difference between that and fighting a bloody war in the Pacific over computer chips. Computer chips is 1 of 3 reasons Taiwan has been dubbed vital. What everyone is missing is it’s really about protecting South Korea and Japan not just Taiwan |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:33:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rubik: Why in the World do you people think it would be a good idea to go to war with a country we are dependant on for virtually all manufacturing that matters, and which has the third largest stockpile of nuclear arms in the world? We can defeat them by merely raising tariffs and building our own manufacturing base. No war necessary. Inaccurate characterization |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:35:27 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: Computer chips is 1 of 3 reasons Taiwan has been dubbed vital. What e Rey one is missing is it’s really about protecting South Korea and Japan And the 60% of global maritime trade flowing through the SCS. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:36:58 AM EDT
[#33]
Allow Taiwan to develop nuclear weapons and delivery systems. Fucking north korea has nukes.
Nuclear deterrent is real and effective. Simple solution. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:39:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BroomSlayer: We won't do that. But we will fight a war, lose the war, and import millions of them here. You know, like we do every time LOL.  We haven’t fought in Haiti recently but Haitians piled up in the border generating news headlines about Border Patrol whipping blacks. A fuck ton of Mexicans - 25 million? Have crossed into our country and we haven’t been at war with Mexico in over a 100 years. War isn’t the sole source of immigration legal or illegal. We don’t even have 2 million Ukrainians flooding the border and they’ve been at war going on 3 years |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:45:11 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: deterrence has already failed, we’re sliding into what happens after deterrence failure The last time deterrence worked was under the prior administration when NK was acting up. We were rapidly spooling up to go hands on. Trump didn’t blink. Kim Jong Un did. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:46:04 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By primuspilum: To place your own interests first does not necessarily constitute isolationism. Our Empire is bankrupting us. Already has, in fact. We're only able to stay afloat because we're able to pass our debt onto others by issuing US dollars diminished by inflation. (Not without historical precedent-the Weimar Republic purposefully pursued hyperinflation because they were using their worthless currency to pay war reparations to the French). We have destroyed our Republic to maintain our Empire and while we lost the Republic, we're on the verge of losing the Empire we traded it for as well. We need a period of consolidation and reorganization. We need to shed some obligations. To do everything at once ensures you do nothing well. We need to repair the foundations of this edifice or it all comes down. I would argue northeast Asia trade has become the cornerstone of our economy for the 21st century and losing it would mean we’d all be living an Amish lifestyle for the next 50 years trying to rebuild in the aftermath as the world moves on. ASML in the Netherlands is also pretty important |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:47:15 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: Really depends on how long hostilities continue. I think they would lose ~50k in a week or so. Lots of naval assets would quickly go under taking most of their crews with them. If we have carriers close when they start the war, we probably lose them. Given their long range anti-ship missiles, it's a difficult fight and our F35's really need longer legs. But we have lots of assets than can make the distance and quickly put many of their ships on the seafloor. Our long range stuff would put MAJOR hurt on China but the problem is we’d run out of it in 4 to 6 weeks time |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:55:06 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By daemon734: And the 60% of global maritime trade flowing through the SCS. Yep, I keep harping in that trade but a chunk of GD seems to want to trivialize it for some reason. I recognize a few long term posters so I accept their posts as sincere disagreement but there’s a bunch of 2023 accounts which I’m skeptical of |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 9:58:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Michaelson]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog1911: I need to have an idea of how large an impact to not only the US, but to the world, a sudden stoppage of all of the integrated circuits, and other systems, would be. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog1911: I need to have an idea of how large an impact to not only the US, but to the world, a sudden stoppage of all of the integrated circuits, and other systems, would be. Interdependency. Over the last 70 years America has been turned from the self-suffiicient manfacturing powerhouse of the world to a sickly shell, dependent on foreign markets for the basics of modern technology. I prefer the former, where we could tell the world to fuck off and be perfectly fine. However, we find ourselves in the latter and there are strategic interests that have to be maintained. The island that makes our most technologically advanced microchips is certainly one of them. We've fucked ourselves with foreign entanglements, and aren't currently able to extricate ourselves. With proper policy and a decade, maybe two. Perhaps. Super Ambitious Realpolitik: (sloppy, full of holes, needs refinement, but directionally accurate. Probably how the world shakes out if Us and China go tonwar anyway.) We're called imperialists, so we should be.  Attached FileRevive and expand the monroe doctrine. Declare all of the highlighted territory closed to non- aligned Asia since we protect it anyway. The whole western hemisphere become provinces of the Imperium Americanum. They all want to come here for better lives, so we bring the better lives to them. Kill any commie banana republic shithead who disagrees (maduro, etc) Leave africa and the middle east entirely and let China drain itself trying to teach africans not to shit in their water supply. Leave India to be the separate and neutral power it wants to be, and it will always be the thorn in China's ass. Sadly more realistic realpolitik: Originally Posted By FreefallRet: No chip factory survives in a war with China. They won't let us have them, we won't let China have them. China isnt gonna attack Taiwan, they will buy their way into leadership over the next 5-10yrs. There is never gonna be a kinetic war in Taiwan. Make sure to quote me on this. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:00:01 AM EDT
[#40]
No we should just hit the Fab facility and let China have the ruble.
Then bring all the workers to the US. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:04:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seven-Shooter: We need microchips, so yes. They won't let us have them, we won't let China have them. China isnt gonna attack Taiwan, they will buy their way into leadership over the next 5-10yrs. There is never gonna be a kinetic war in Taiwan. Make sure to quote me on this. |
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JPN
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:10:56 AM EDT
[#42]
China doesn't need to invade, they just need to wait.
All this talk of military action, or going to war for Taiwan without any mention of what the population of Taiwan wants, and where they are heading politically, is just a symptom of bad diplomacy and selective reporting. China can afford to remove TSMC factories in Taiwan via exothermic reactions, TSMC can not afford to lose its Chinese customers. This is a very complex issue, but the Ukraine conflict has shown how retarded the Biden state department is and how they can fuck everything up. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:16:03 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 96Ag: Is the Chinese demographic cliff a real thing? Is there a way to contain things until they implode? Can Christians In Action start a color revolution in China? There should be a lot of ways to keep a stand up fight from happening, we should be doing that while making smart decisions about our military. But, rainbows, dog masks, and unicorn farts seem to be the tenor of the day. Chinese Christians are only slightly higher up the oppression ladder than the Uyghurs and are in far less numbers so they won’t be doing anything close to revolution other than the dying part. The Chinese military is massive and is primarily for internal use and unless large parts of that military decides that they have had enough of the CCP nothing is going to change other than the faces in the party. The one and only silver lining about relationship that the US and China is that if we went to war it would do a hell of a lot more damage to them economically and socially to them than us. We could limp along for a while and yes it would suck but eventually chip fabs would come back and be on us soil and we could produce our own rubber dog shit locally or at least have it produced in places like Mexico that currently have no ability militarily to cause us issues and pretty much never will. I understand that we pretty much set all of this in motion years ago with Nixon getting buddy buddy with the ccp and opening up much larger trade with them, but the part I have never understood other than people being greedy is why we ever let chip manufacturers to off shore production of critical national assets to a nation that its neighbor had an axe to grind with them and constantly threatens to invade. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:18:27 AM EDT
[#44]
I have to wonder, those saying yes, how many of them are on multiple medications? Most of which have ingredients sourced from China.
I'd bet it's most since most Americans are. Emotions tend to disconnect people from reality and the consequences of running on emotions............... |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:21:42 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver: They don't understand how an economy works... and it isn't worth trying to explain. There are a lot of people here, well-meaning to some extent, who believe being edgy trumps reality. Inevetably, they will say things without doing their homework. Our economy is based on keeping our trade routes open and free to all. Our enemies resent it dearly. Those who think our trade routes are not vital to our freedom and existence really are clueless. Even when we were colonies, having access to trade routes was vital to our founding. Nothing has changed except the enormity of the task and the consequences of failure. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:23:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Doesn't Taiwan pretty much make the majority of the computer chips and components that we use in pretty much EVERYTHING? Yeah, I would think that keeping that out of the control of CHINA would be in our interest.
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SD, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:26:44 AM EDT
[#47]
For all you panty wastes crying about defending Taiwan from China, I get it. The "big bad bankers" are funding another war for profit, etc. But... we had better figure out how to get all of our CPU needs elsewhere then. Either get Japan set up, or Europe, or ... **gasp** get it figured out here in the US.
If people think Kuwait and oil was an issue... just wait until we can't build a new model friggin' smart phone thanks to no cpu chips.... |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:28:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JRBL1A1: For all you panty wastes crying about defending Taiwan from China, I get it. The "big bad bankers" are funding another war for profit, etc. But... we had better figure out how to get all of our CPU needs elsewhere then. Either get Japan set up, or Europe, or ... **gasp** get it figured out here in the US. If people think Kuwait and oil was an issue... just wait until we can't build a new model friggin' smart phone thanks to no cpu chips.... Yep...smart phones, PC's, automotive CPUs, ....boards/chips/components pretty much run everything we depend on here in the US (and around the world). Also, if China gets ahold of all the information from Taiwan...will that be able to backdoor into everything we have? |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:29:26 AM EDT
[#49]
There is some well thought out analysis in this thread and a fair amount of absurdity: Like many GD threads I guess. How do you think the typical American consumer is going to react when we have significant and PROLONGED shortages of not only luxury items but more basic things we’ve grown reliant on like home appliances? It will be utter turmoil. People go insane if they think we are going to run out of toilet paper which there are abundant and easy alternatives for. My A/C or dishwasher is broken and there are no replacements or parts? A lot more folks will be accepting of a real conflict. Bigger picture is when we can no longer repair basic infrastructure like our power grid and transportation assets. Parts of the country like agriculture communities will have a hard time but pull together and adapt. The population centers will get ugly. What do you think happens when the grocery stores can’t supply milk, eggs etc. It will be very, very ugly in the cities
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/27/2024 10:40:27 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost: I think it would be pretty massive. For the purposes of this thread, remember China has struck US assets and destroyed them pre-emptively as part of their invasion. Yeah, if China strikes US assets, any president except Biden would immediately strike Chinese military targets and tell them 3 gorges is next. |
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