Had a confrontation in the office (narcotic seeker) today and it was the closest time I've ever come to having  to shoot someone since my last deployment to Iraq.  It was serious enough to wonder about civilian litigation after the fact.  What is the best CCW insurance out there?

Geeeee thanks for the details!

Real insurance is better than CCW insurance.

agreed BUT many will not cover the liability of shooting someone

I would get a million dollar personal liability policy to start then look at Legalsheild and NRA CarryGuard..

Glad you are OK, Doc.

I would think an umbrella policy would be money well spent and it would cover you for other situations as well.

did you call the cops?

After nearly 40 yrs in L.E., now retired, I went with this company: https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/

I chose this one for the coverage (different levels available) and the cost.

NRA now offers a program, too, but I am unfamiliar with the details of their program.

Will an umbrella policy cover a self defense shooting?

Blade or ???

I doubt it is going cover bail and a lawyer if needed
USCC
This is who I went with, there are others out there

+1

yeah, you need a refund.

Armed citizens legal defense network

I'm going to have to look into that, thanks.  Anybody have a bad experience with these people?  

USCCA seems to be the best one I have found, and use.

Glad you are OK Doc!!

Was his name 'Marvin'?

lol

I'm sitting in my office about 5PM.  I hear shouting in the middle of the building. Our practice has a central nurse's station with halls branching off leading to Dr offices and exam rooms.  At that time of the day I'm the only male in the building.  All the patients had gone and the girls were closing for the night.  I hear the shouts and I am getting up, thinking the girls were celebrating someone's birthday or something when one of the girls runs in and says "Doc we need you right fucking now!"  

I get up and, based on the panic on her face, pull out my  Glock 29 (10mm) and follow her out.  We run out into the main office and down the hall to exam rooms #1 and #2.  There is this guy there losing his mind and screaming at the girls.  I go to the hall, stand there, and tell the girls to get back.  Apparently this dude had walked in and demanded "oxy" .

The nurse had told him no and he threw a fit.  He was screaming stuff like, "I won't leave until I get what I want" and "Fuck you" and " I'm gonna come back and kill you all."

I tell the girls to stay behind me, I've got the pistol in my hand and behind my back.   The guy is young, about 25-30, and has a cane that he is waving about.  His girlfriend is next to him, bawling her eyes out and asking him to stop.   He screams, "I'm a disabled vet, and I'm not leaving until I get what I want."

I inform him that the cops have been called and I will not give him any narcotics and he'd best leave on his own or the cops would take him out.

He continues with the "I'm gonna kill you" rants.  When he said "make me leave" I almost pulled but was worried about the whole "brandishing" thing.  At that point the threats have been general and I really just wanted to get this asshole out of here.

He started up with the "I'm a vet" bullshit and I replied with "I'm a vet too. I was in longer than you've been alive, so don't pull that crap on me. Please just leave."

His GF finally convinces him  to leave and on his way out, he tries to smash every glass door he passes.  At one door he stands there and smashes it back and forth  until the glass falls out.  Still no cops (I love my local police but they can't come instantly) .

I follow him out to both ensure he leaves and to lock the door behind him.  Before he leaves, he turns around and raises his cane and charges me. He gets about a yard or so before his GF tackles him and pulls him back.  All this time I've got the pistol in my hand but behind my back,  I haven't shot someone since Iraq and I really do not want the hassle of shooting someone in my office.  I was pulling my pistol to aim at him when his GF stopped him

They go out and get in their car and pull out of the  parking lot just as the cops are pulling in (all of them in town it looked like, there were a lot of them). My nurse and I point out the car and off they go to get them.

So now he's sitting in jail and the cops (who are friends of mine) said I should have just shot the son of a bitch and I'm wondering about the repercussions ( civil and criminal) had I done so and now I'm very interested in CCW insurance.  What is the best CCW insurance?

Wow! Glad you and your Nurses are OK.

Thank you. What is the best CCW insurance though?

Malpractice doesn't cover shooting the patient?

Nope.  And plaintiff's lawyers love going after docs.

Can't imagine being a physician without personal umbrella coverage.

I have an umbrella policy, but this was so close I'm , also interested in specific CCW insurance.  It was seriously a few second "shoot no shoot" decision.

The OP did the right thing.

Shooting someone is a bad idea unless you HAVE TO.

You need to be able to demonstrate to a jury of drooling dunces that you HAD TO do it.

I saw a PBS show one time that had footage of a jury actually deliberating over a real criminal case, it was truly frightening.  The jurors were like stereotypes.  An angry black guy, a nice old lady, a bimbo, a douchey liberal guy,  etc

Didn't have an IQ over 80 in the room.  


Living well is the best revenge.

I have umbrella with USAA.  Thinking about specific "know how to litigate self defense cases" type insurance.  Umbrella is great, but they are not specific to this situation.

The best insurance should be your state's laws on the use of force.

That depends on available jurors, though, so I wouldn't count on it.

Glad you and your people are okay, brother.

Glad You're all OK Doc.

In for the answers.

Damn Doc, glad you and the other employees are ok.  That's some damn fine restraint you showed there... probably got something to do with all those years of service.    Best outcome for all was achieved, as much as many here would like to MMQB it with "why didn't you shoot?".  Strictly as an AAR point, I'd simply consider if you'd want to let a potential aggressor get that close to you (3 feet, by your recollection) before you're drawn and on target.  Again, glad everyone is ok and Dopy McShithead is in jail.  Check out USCC (link already posted by others) if you're serious about insurance.

That's a crazy story, and I'm glad that it ended like it did.

Tagged for interest on the insurance.

This.

You're cool NavyDoc.  double cool to observe the idiot wrecking the place...

would you have given him some oxy after the face shoot?  you have an oath you know.....  

eta: you wouldn't have been able to post this thread if you'd done different.

You on or off base?  Lejuene?

The self-defense providers that I'm aware of are US Law Shield, USCCA, and NRA Carry Guard.

US Law Shield contracts with a single lawyer/firm per state to provide legal services.  I wouldn't be surprised if the other providers operated in a similar manner.  

That can be good or bad.  Maybe the lawyer/firm is capable in criminal/self-defense matters or maybe they aren't.  Regardless, you're stuck with whoever the policy or provider specifies.

He almost got shot, it was very close, but I really, really didn't want to shoot him.  He traveled about one to two yards before his GF tackled him. Sorry if that wasn't clear. He still had a couple to go. I would have lit him up if he'd gotten 3 feet away.

Glad you're okay boss.

I don't have anything to add on the insurance but thank you for your sacrifices and service!

I'm retired from the Navy now. Private practice about 30 minutes north of Lejeune.

Damn doc, that's messed up. Glad you & your staff weren't physically harmed. The dirtbag is lucky you had restraint.

I really hope the prosecutor works with you to throw the book at him and not give him some BS disorderly conduct charge.

Hopefully you:

- fire him if an existing pt
- trespass him obviously
- ex-parte or no contact or whatever

I actually was gonna look at that NRA Carry Guard myself so interested to see what others say.

None better in this regard than Armed Citizens' Legal Defense Network.
Their Advisory Board includes Massad Ayoob, Tom Givens, Dennis Tueller, et al.
ACLDN

They maintain a roster of experienced attorneys in every state. Eight DVD's upon enrolling, with an additional one (or a book) every year. Monthly Journal for members. $25k bail bond/attorney fees

Glad to hear you and the nurses are okay, have the window replaced or secured right away.
Hopefully the shit bird doesn't have any stupid friends try to fight you.

I'm now wondering about coverage, Ohio has some good ccw laws but like most they could be better.

Again, glad to hear you are all okay

NRA only covers after you are sued and only if you win.  So useless, essentially.

Who has 50k for a retainer and more for a PR person, if you kill an Amish person?

just as important is to get the number of a gun-friendly experienced criminal defense lawyer and get his advice on CCW insurance programs.

The cops said I need to swear a warrant about physical threats (since they didn't witness that, they got him on property damage).   Go to court and get an official trespass order (although they have already trespassed him so I'm not sure the difference) and get the court to issue a restraining order so he loses his guns and CCW (if he has them).

Happy ending.

Excellent advice.  Any ideas on such a lawyer in North Carolina?

You were armed and ready.

You may not have felt like it at the time but you always had the upper hand.

Glad you're ok.

I am going to say a badge.
Seriously,maybe a reserve commission,or something like it.
Not a cop thread guys,so don't make it one.

Glad you are ok Doc.