Sooooo, I was relaxing and comfortably numb reading the thread on the Senate selling us out on privacy;

here,

Senate says F U America

and I ran across this at the same website; Mar 21, 2017

With appeals ruling, the United States has effectively outlawed file encryption

An appeals court has denied the appeal of a person who is jailed indefinitely for refusing to decrypt files. The man has not been charged with anything, but was ordered to hand over the unencrypted contents on police assertion of what the contents were.

When this can result in lifetime imprisonment under “contempt of court”, the United States has effectively outlawed file-level encryption – without even going through Congress.

Yesterday, a US Appeals Court ruled against the person now detained for almost 18 months for refusing to decrypt a hard drive. The man has not been charged with anything, but authorities assert that the drive contains child pornography, and they want to charge him for it. As this is a toxic subject that easily spins off into threads of its own, for the sake of argument here and for sticking to the 10,000-foot principles, let’s say the authorities instead claim there are documents showing tax evasion on the drive. The principles would be the same.

Authorities are justifying the continued detention of this person – this uncharged person – with two arguments that are seemingly contradictory: First, they say they already know in detail what documents are on the drive, so the person’s guilt is a “foregone conclusion”, and second, they refuse to charge him until they have said documents decrypted. This does not make sense: either they have enough evidence to charge, in which case they should, or they don’t have enough evidence, in which case there’s also not enough evidence to claim with this kind of certainty there are illegal documents on the drive.

In any case, this loss in the Appeals Court effectively means that file- and volume-level encryption is now illegal in the United States.

Without going through Congress, without public debate, without anything, the fuzzy “contempt of court” has been used to outlaw encryption of files. When authorities can jail you indefinitely – indefinitely! – for encrypting files out of their reach, the net effect of this is that file level encryption has been outlawed. (Encryption of transmissions, like with a VPN, has never been threatened this way – transmissions are transient in nature and therefore can’t be seized.)

dafuq-yo shit getting worse

ETA, from the link text added;

So were there illegal documents on the drive? We don’t know. That’s the whole point. But we do know that you can be sent to prison on a mere assertion of what’s on your drive, without even a charge – effectively for life, even worse than the UK law which will jail you for up to five years for refusing to decrypt and which at least has some semblance of due process.

The point here isn’t that the man “was probably a monster”. The point is that the authorities claimed that there was something on his encrypted drive, and used that assertion as justification to send him to prison for life (unless he complies), with no charges filed. There’s absolutely nothing saying the same US authorities won’t claim the same thing about your drive tomorrow. Falsely, most likely. The point is that, with this ruling, it doesn’t matter.


RELATED STORY;

Man jailed indefinitely for refusing to decrypt hard drives loses appeal

“Our client has now been in custody for almost 18 months,” defense attorney says.

Related story

Legislating from the bench. Fulkerson should be hung.

State property really doesn't have rights.

Wow

Forget your password, go to jail forever.

Land of the free, and if you disagree, you're a pedo sympathizer.

Even though the gov't has faces we put to it, the reality is that it is this nameless faceless beast that continues to grow in power

Yeah, it's bullshit.

I've been following this case since the beginning and while I have no love for pedos, I do respect their rights as a US citizen and that includes illegal search and seizure and detention.

The case hinges around a border agent catching a glimpse of what the THOUGHT was kiddie porn on the screen.  The laptop then shutdown and now requires the PGP Whole Disk Encryption password to boot / decrypt the rest of the hard drive.

So this guy is in prison because some border agent SAYS he saw what LOOKED LIKE kiddie porn.  May have been some of that loli hentai stuff, may have been the real deal, whatever.  The guy still has rights.


This is also why it is important to NOT use the fingerprint recognition features of your devices.  The DOJ can compel you to swipe a finger but cannot compel you to reveal the combination to your safe or the password to your device.  I suppose they can lock you up forever without charges now instead.

This is also why I want Apple et al to incorporate a fingerprint destruct scan.  If you can set a device up to destroy the keys in the Secure Enclave you can effectively destroy all the data.  Of course you also have to make the SE resistant to duplication.

Gov't:  Here, press your registered finger here.

You:  OK!

{press}

Phone: "Not recognized, try again" while destroying the SE in the background.

Terrifying in its own right, though eloquently stated.

Ok...I'm not reading the case, but did the guy bring up the 5th amendment?

This is a different case.

Interesting case.  If the forensics shows known CAM images/videos (based on hash values) going to to an external (encrypted) device then it really would be a "foregone conclusion" that the CAM resides there.  The big hurdle would be "proving" the suspect knew the password...I guess you could overcome that based on user activity during the times the images/videos were downloaded / accessed...

One of those unique cases based on unusual, rare circumstances - and certainly not supporting the "OMG file system encryption is illegal now!" headline...

It is quite interesting:  https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/fedsrawls.pdf

encryption existed during the time of the Founding Fathers.  The only difference was that it was done by hand instead of by machine.  Forcing someone to unencrypt a cipher (in the 18th or 21st century) to use against them is 100% a 5th Amend issue

encrypt random hard drive.
ask suspect for decrypt key.
lock up suspect indefinitely.

Want out? Prove it's not your hard drive.

Ah, right you are.  Just read up on the case under discussion.  

Seems they have proof of him downloading specific known kiddie files.

Sounds like he left enough breadcrumbs on his Mac to eliminate doubt.  He was likely caught in one of those FBI stings.

Either FileVault is very secure (they can't break it) or they can break it but need to keep that capability in the dark by forcing him to provide the unnecessary keys.

So many questions and I am morally torn because, while he no doubt faps to kiddie porn, he also has the same rights anyone accused of a crime should have.

Warrant?

People do actually forget passwords.  Anyone who has worked in IT knows this.  There is no justification whatsoever for jailing people for this.

Sounds like a border Port of Entry case. Not familiar with this case, but when making entry into the US from foreign, you have NO reasonable expectation of privacy. How do you think they can force X-ray you if the think your gut is full of Heroin filled condoms? Or hand cuff you to a bed a feed you laxatives via an IV until you crap them out. Ask you to do it voluntarily?  Nope. You are also not "admitted" until you clear Immigration and Customs. They can do a deferred inspection (my guess with this case). This guy, I bet, has technically not been admitted into the US. The Gov't doesn't like to test this carve out of the 4th amendment. My guess is they were as surprised as anyone with the court ruling.

Yep! I hope that the SCOTUS over rules this.

Seems like a shitty deal

Thanks for posting that.  So it looks like he was also doing some of his "activities" in a VM.  Smart.  He also showed the CAM to a witness and confessed to possessing the images.  Dumb.

isn't this a "i plead the 5th" deal?


and for fuck sake...  your telling me there isn't a computer nerd on the payroll that can't bust open that HD in 12 seconds??   c'mon ... 

"With appeals ruling, the United States has effectively outlawed file encryption " - lol, no it didn't.  They basically said you can't use it to hide evidence of a crime. Just like you can't refuse cops from coming into your house to search for evidence if they have a search warrant.

Yep, two edged blade.

Title was taken straight from the article link, key word is, effectively

encrypt away, but prepare to (possibly) go to jail if you encrypt/lose your password.

it's up to the govt to prove the contents of the drive are evidence

Doesn't matter then, because as soon as charges are filed he can request discovery and they'll drop the charges anyways.

Yes AND no. While at the border you aren't "IN " the us and thus don't have full rights(so full warrantless search of your effects including electronic media is legal) BUT you think EVERY person gets searched? they likely target those searches... "Oh XYZ has a prior record of kiddie poen, is on sex offender list AND just visited Thailand for the 5th time this year, AND has 9 thumbdrives and 2 external 10 TB hard drives, a super high end video camera and a bunch of super hero costumes in kid sizes for kids about 4-8" THAT guy gets searched, the grandma with a tablet with the place on the screen where the solitare draw deck is worn down doesn't get searched....

Ok so you've got a warrant, that means you can access the drive. It doesn't mean that the accused has to help you access the drive.

This is such a cut and dry 5th amendment violation that it's a wonder anyone can be so willfully ignorant as to not understand it.

He's not refusing access to his house. He just forgot where he put the key. The government has more than enough legitimate authority to break into his house without the key using any means necessary, and they're welcome to take as long as they need. 

But in the meantime, he ought to be a free man. 

we need to get away from this relatively recent idea that the 4th Amend is only about privacy and not about people being secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects.  It doesn't matter if people know you have something...someone needs to swear an oath that there is a specific item relating to a crime, and get a warrant from a court

"With appeals ruling, the United States has effectively outlawed file encryption" - Please show where file encryption has been outlawed? Do you know what outlawed means?

From my point of view, forcing someone to decrypt their own personal documents is the same as forcing a defendant to testify against himself.

Right, cause impeding an investigation and hiding evidence is no longer a crime. 

Luckily the NSA and CIA can worm in and get the pedo files even before you know they are on to you.  And if they don't find and, they can always put some there.

You're using indefinite detention to compel the accused to aid in their own prosecution.

You're a cop aren't you, or maybe a prosecutor?

How's this, a guy is accused of murder, but you don't know where the body is. Can you lock him up until he tells you where it is?

Is that a violation of his rights, why or why not?

What part of SEARCH WARRANT did you not understand? Same thing as preventing police with a search warrant from entering a house. Law. You don't get it. You seem to want to trash the whole 4th Amendment.

Can you block cops from coming into your house to collect evidence if they have a search warrant? If you do, can you be jailed and charged with a crime?

In this case, it's more like knowing the guy has the body inside a locked safe, and you obtained a search warrant to obtain entry. He's obstructing justice/ ignoring a warrant by refusing to unlock the door. Fifth Amendment covers TESTIMONY, not what is effectively destruction of evidence subject to a lawful search warrant.

He's not doing shit, he's sitting in a cell.

The authorities have the evidence, they just can't read it. It's no different than if he wrote in some language he invented and only he could read, can you lock him up and make him translate it?

The clear intent of the 5th Amendment is to prevent the government from coercing people to aid in their own prosecutions because that is too readily abused.

So break into the safe, you've got a warrant.

Look I know you types don't give a fuck about the rights of people whom you deem to be criminals and only want your jobs to be easier. It's a disgusting attitude but it is what it is.

The logical end state of this course is people locked up until they confess, which would certainly make your jobs very easy indeed.

At a minimum, there should be a limit to this kind of incarceration, something like one year tops.  Indefinite jail goes far beyond the power a court should have to control the proceedings.

It is worse than you know. A properly implemented whole disk encryption system is indistinguishable from random data. That drive could be empty. It might not even be encrypted. There may not be a key to unlock it.

nothing in the Constitution requires one to provide evidence against themselves to the govt on a silver plater, but there is that bit about not being a witness against himself

Swing and a miss.

Like watching Charlie Brown with the football. lol

Forensics could show the drive being mounted and if you're lucky you'll see drive paths / file system references on the host machine.

This is pretty much where I'm at on this.

Will be interesting to see what SCOTUS rules when the case eventually makes it there.

And deny you your rights. Turned those negative rights of government into positive rights...