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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:37:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Depends on what they are doing. You can skew the test to make one win.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:39:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Whoever the fuck thinks a F-35 can provide CAS needs to go back and learn all the lessons from Vietnam to present on why supersonic jets are not suitable for that mission.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:42:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Whoever thinks A-10 can do CAS in anything other than a benign environment needs to learn about MANPADS used by the Russians and Chinese.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:46:44 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:48:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Another stupid waste of money, both airplanes can fly.......dumbasses
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:49:02 AM EDT
[#6]
That sounds absolutely hilarious.
How about a fly off between an AC130 and a Strike Eagle next? They kinda do the same job. 
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:50:25 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on what they are doing. You can skew the test to make one win. If the tests involve anything other than "hauling a bunch of ordnance over a permissive environment) the F-35 is going to eat the Hawg's lunch. The A-10 is awesome, but outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types, it doesn't have a role anymore. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:50:25 AM EDT
[#8]
Just give them to the Marines and lets Sgts fly the damn things.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:51:53 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just give them to the Marines and lets Sgts fly the damn things. I think both the A-10s and Strykers would be ideal for USBP. 
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Posted: 12/4/2016 12:53:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Congress calls for a war games 'flyoff'...... IT'S A FLYOFF! ETA: beat |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 1:06:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Go home, Congress. You're drunk.
Hog all the way! |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 1:09:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Someone just needs to make an F10 an call it a done deal.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 1:19:49 AM EDT
[#13]
bring your computerized toy
 Attached File....... Good luck taking real battle damage and making it home A-10 rocks |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 1:31:33 AM EDT
[#14]
Well the F-35 seems hellbent on destroying itself while the A-10 keeps the pilot safe with half the plane gone.
Other then that this whole test seems pretty retarded and honestly seems like a win for the A-10 for them so even be having this conversation. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 1:33:47 AM EDT
[#15]
This can only end foolishly
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Posted: 12/4/2016 4:01:20 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The A-10 is awesome, but outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types, it doesn't have a role anymore. When is the last time we did anything outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types? |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:02:27 AM EDT
[#17]
How many congressman can you hang under each wing... And how does their flailing around affect the trajectory after they are released at altitude...
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:17:30 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever the fuck thinks a F-35 can provide CAS needs to go back and learn all the lessons from Vietnam to present on why supersonic jets are not suitable for that mission. Lol So F-16, F-15, F-18 aren't suitable for CAS? 
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:30:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever thinks A-10 can do CAS in anything other than a benign environment needs to learn about MANPADS used by the Russians and Chinese. I see this brought up A LOT. I have news for you, the Chinese or Russians will not allow it to get to the point where there are troops in need of CAS and there will be a nuclear war. I mean think about it seriously for a moment. Do you really think that if we somehow knock out the air defenses (something the A-10 would not be involved in anyways) and manage to get troops on the ground, they will not realize that the end is near and launch the nukes while they still can. If it gets to the point where we would be using ground troops, and fighting on their own terf then they will all die fighting. They would rather risk a nuclear Armageddon than be defeated by us. This straw man "what about China and Russia" argument is so flawed. The facts are, we are still fighting a war in Afghanistan, and Syria and several other places and the CAS that has been working has been provided by A-10s and F-15's, C-130s and F-18s. At this point it is nothing more than an attempt to justify the money they wasted on the F-35. We should be working on fixing what we have, and spending the money more wisely. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:34:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever the fuck thinks a F-35 can provide CAS needs to go back and learn all the lessons from Vietnam to present on why supersonic jets are not suitable for that mission. Oops. Completely misread your post. Belay my last and carry on. 
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:35:00 AM EDT
[#21]
lol lobbying will win.
Doesn't matter who which bird wins, it matters who gets paid off to decide a certain way. Come on now |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:41:57 AM EDT
[#22]
The A-10 is like the submarine. It has about 7-10% of the sorties flown in the AF, but accounts for a metric ton of mission critical assets destroyed. Yes, it is very specialized in that it works when the AF has air superiority ; but in the last 40 years the AF has flown the A-10, they have AS. So they have no reason to change since they expect to have AS. It is almost like the AF trying to keep the B-52 since it only works when we have AS.
Now that we are looking at a possible conflict with either the PRC or RUS, we would need a platform to maintain air superiority. The F-22/F-35 is that platform for the next 10 years. After that...it's all up in the air. The Army should get super tacos for COIN since they are simple to maintain in the field, easy for the SF to train the natives, and cheaper to run than the F-35 in COIN/CAS/CSAR. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 5:43:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever thinks A-10 can do CAS in anything other than a benign environment needs to learn about MANPADS used by the Russians and Chinese. This is outdated, second-hand, anecdotal information, but an A-10 pilot I knew casually in the early 90s told me his life expectancy over the Fulda Gap was measured in minutes. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 6:09:35 AM EDT
[#24]
Let it go already.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 6:40:38 AM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 12/4/2016 6:58:04 AM EDT
[#26]
For the win....
.jpg)
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Posted: 12/4/2016 7:02:02 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When is the last time we did anything outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The A-10 is awesome, but outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types, it doesn't have a role anymore. When is the last time we did anything outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types? Fighting yesterdays war... what could go wrong? And I'm an A10 fan |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 7:20:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Will this include live ammo being fired and hitting both planes?
If yes the A-10 wins. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 7:25:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fighting yesterdays war... what could go wrong? And I'm an A10 fan Disagree. The fights of the future will be dirty affairs that require not only CAS with loiter and payload but also the ability to fight in littoral areas as well. Land war in Europe or China? Maybe...UW in Africa? 100% |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 7:57:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is outdated, second-hand, anecdotal information, but an A-10 pilot I knew casually in the early 90s told me his life expectancy over the Fulda Gap was measured in minutes. He was trying to get laid. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 8:50:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He was trying to get laid. Trust me: I wasn't even on his radar. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 8:50:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is outdated, second-hand, anecdotal information, but an A-10 pilot I knew casually in the early 90s told me his life expectancy over the Fulda Gap was measured in minutes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whoever thinks A-10 can do CAS in anything other than a benign environment needs to learn about MANPADS used by the Russians and Chinese. This is outdated, second-hand, anecdotal information, but an A-10 pilot I knew casually in the early 90s told me his life expectancy over the Fulda Gap was measured in minutes. At one point I got to see the attrition estimates for the AC-130s in a shooting war with Best Korea. IMO the gunships and A-10s would mostly sit on the ground (see Allied Force for the AC's, not sure how much action the Hogs saw) until the contest was basically decided by more survivable platforms. Slow and unstealthy against anything other than 4th world and/or badly degraded opponents is suicide for those aircrews. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:06:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At one point I got to see the attrition estimates for the AC-130s in a shooting war with Best Korea. IMO the gunships and A-10s would mostly sit on the ground (see Allied Force for the AC's, not sure how much action the Hogs saw) until the contest was basically decided by more survivable platforms. Slow and unstealthy against anything other than 4th world and/or badly degraded opponents is suicide for those aircrews. That was kinda his point. The difference being that North vs South Korea is a side show. The Soviet bloc coming thru the Fulda Gap would have been an existential East-West contest. I don't think he expected to have the luxury of waiting for a permissive environment before going to work. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:07:24 AM EDT
[#34]
The A10 was originally designed and built as a tank killer; to fly out in front of armored formations and kill the bad guy's armor on the battlefield, in crap weather. It became a great CAS platform in the eyes of the ground guys because of its loiter time, accuracy, and ability to take a beating and keep going. The titanium tub around the pilot, redundant flight controls, and self-sealing fuel tanks show that it was assumed the plane would take rounds while dong it's job. It does that quite well and keeps going. Will we ever get to the point of fighting armored battles again? Don't know, but apparently someone thinks we will based on the number of tanks and armored vehicles we still have. Just about any plane could do CAS in the right circumstances. Ever seen a BLU-82 dropped from an MC130? Google it. Yes, I'm sure the F35 can do CAS. Problem is, it is taking so long to perfect that the stealth technology will be obsolete by the time it's fully fielded. Look at what happen to the F117...........I will not believe the F35 can do CAS in an in-your-face, blow-for-blow ground fight until I see it do it at the level the A10 has done for decades. In a stand-off scenario, sure. As an air-to-air, or air superiority platform, see my comments about technology going obsolete and also consider that while we pinched pennies, China and Russia did not. The A10 design should not be discounted or trashed in favor of another platform. It has a role it was designed for that nothing else does. I'm for an upgraded A10. Add some counter measures like DIRCM and let 'er fight.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:37:34 AM EDT
[#35]
I wonder which shitty country they are planning to sell the warthog to, after the biased flyoff.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:45:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The A10 was originally designed and built as a tank killer; to fly out in front of armored formations and kill the bad guy's armor on the battlefield, in crap weather. It became a great CAS platform in the eyes of the ground guys because of its loiter time, accuracy, and ability to take a beating and keep going. The titanium tub around the pilot, redundant flight controls, and self-sealing fuel tanks show that it was assumed the plane would take rounds while dong it's job. It does that quite well and keeps going. Will we ever get to the point of fighting armored battles again? Don't know, but apparently someone thinks we will based on the number of tanks and armored vehicles we still have. Just about any plane could do CAS in the right circumstances. Ever seen a BLU-82 dropped from an MC130? Google it. Yes, I'm sure the F35 can do CAS. Problem is, it is taking so long to perfect that the stealth technology will be obsolete by the time it's fully fielded. Look at what happen to the F117...........I will not believe the F35 can do CAS in an in-your-face, blow-for-blow ground fight until I see it do it at the level the A10 has done for decades. In a stand-off scenario, sure. As an air-to-air, or air superiority platform, see my comments about technology going obsolete and also consider that while we pinched pennies, China and Russia did not. The A10 design should not be discounted or trashed in favor of another platform. It has a role it was designed for that nothing else does. I'm for an upgraded A10. Add some counter measures like DIRCM and let 'er fight. Um, wow... How's this, we pack them with HE and fly them into high value targets? I think the Japanese pioneered that option, we could check with them. The ability (necessitated by vulnerability) to soak up rounds and RTB is rarely a ringing endorsement, unless you're okay with a one-time-flight aircraft. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:59:20 AM EDT
[#37]
If only there was a thing called Suppression of Enemy Air Defense....Oh wait there is and the USAF seems to have abandoned that mission too
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Posted: 12/4/2016 10:35:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If only there was a thing called Suppression of Enemy Air Defense....Oh wait there is and the USAF seems to have abandoned that mission too Ring up Scott O'Grady and ask him how that whole SEAD thing worked out for him...and we were suppressing the shit out of everything that stuck its head up when his F-16 got knocked down. That whole adaptable enemy thing is a bitch. The bigger issue isn't ground sites, as I think Snow mentioned it's the rapidly increasing capability of enemy MANPADs. You can ra-ra the A-10 all you want, but aircrew aren't suicidal. Ask any of the retired AFSOC guys about the aftermath of the Spirit03 shoot-down in ODS. NOT the Spirit crew, the fallout. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 10:48:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the tests involve anything other than "hauling a bunch of ordnance over a permissive environment) the F-35 is going to eat the Hawg's lunch. The A-10 is awesome, but outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types, it doesn't have a role anymore. I predict the F35 will be purchased in such small numbers that the USAF will deem each to be too expensive to be used in a CAS role. "We paid a million billion dollars for that plane and I'm not gonna be 'That Guy' who ordered it to go where it could get shot down!" |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 10:54:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trust me: I wasn't even on his radar. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He was trying to get laid. Trust me: I wasn't even on his radar. It was a reflexive brag. Trust me, I'm Airborne, and our life expectancy in a hot DZ is measured in minutes.
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Posted: 12/4/2016 11:59:27 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a reflexive brag. Trust me, I'm Airborne, and our life expectancy in a hot DZ is measured in minutes. Whatever. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest between a fighter pilot and an Airborne guy. 
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:09:18 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fighting yesterdays war... what could go wrong? And I'm an A10 fan Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The A-10 is awesome, but outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types, it doesn't have a role anymore. When is the last time we did anything outside of COIN and killing goat-fucking types? Fighting yesterdays war... what could go wrong? And I'm an A10 fan Yesterday's war, is WWIIand the Cold War. Yet that's what the pentagon and defense sector want to prepare for. Could we get into a limited scope war in the SCS, or East Euope? It's not likely, but we could. It's way more likely that China or Russia will prefer to use proxies, just as they have been for the last 40-50 years. If we do go to war, LO aircraft are far from invulnerable, and we don't have a lot of mass. Can the enemy shoot down enough? Between cruise missile and ballistics missiles hitting our airfields/carriers, and IADS shooting shit down, they just might. Putting all our eggs in the stealth basket was stupid. Are we in a war with radical Islam that has no sign of ending? We are. No matter how much Obama, and the idiots who think like him say we can just opt out, we cannot. The A-10 is one of the better AC we have for this mission, but it's far from good, or the one we need. Our nation has needed a cheap and reliable low/slow goat herder killer for 15+ years. We will continue to need one for the next 20+ years, and those AC will be used the most and kill the most enemy. Everyone involved in aircraft acquisition in the pentagon should be fired for negligence/incompetence. |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 9:32:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whatever. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest between a fighter pilot and an Airborne guy. It was a joke, you see... NVM. 
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Posted: 12/4/2016 10:10:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many congressman can you hang under each wing... And how does their flailing around affect the trajectory after they are released at altitude... we need to run a test |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 11:24:40 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a joke, you see... NVM. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whatever. I'm not going to get into a pissing contest between a fighter pilot and an Airborne guy. It was a joke, you see... NVM. OK. <shrug> |
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Posted: 12/4/2016 11:27:24 PM EDT
[#46]
It's a little late to be trying to figure out whether or not the F-35 can do the job or not isn't it?
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Posted: 12/4/2016 11:40:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bring your computerized toyhttp://AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/334593/Kim-campbell-damage-a10-99281.JPG....... Good luck taking real battle damage and making it home A-10 rocks This is exactly why the AF wants to retire them. You think that picture is a win? The enemy negated the CAS mission with a POS manpad. How many fast CAS assets got holes in them in Iraq, which was a very very low threat environment for fighter aircraft? Except for the gun, CAS is done with targeting pods and precision weapons. Zero visual deliveries, which is a good thing. with the advances in fuzing, the small diameter bomb, etc its only going to get better as we go for CEP and collateral concerns. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 12:13:36 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is exactly why the AF wants to retire them. You think that picture is a win? The enemy negated the CAS mission with a POS manpad. How many fast CAS assets got holes in them in Iraq, which was a very very low threat environment for fighter aircraft? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
bring your computerized toyhttp://AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/334593/Kim-campbell-damage-a10-99281.JPG....... Good luck taking real battle damage and making it home This is exactly why the AF wants to retire them. You think that picture is a win? The enemy negated the CAS mission with a POS manpad. How many fast CAS assets got holes in them in Iraq, which was a very very low threat environment for fighter aircraft? That was 2003 against Republican Guard in Baghdad, and was hit after finishing the mission. None of the reports talk about MANPADs, it was more likely the RG had Soviet AAA guns. Which is exactly what the A-10 was designed to survive against. So not only did they not get it during or before the mission, but after taking damage it made it back to the base. Let me know when an F-35 makes it back with as much damage as that A-10 had, or comes back with one wing like the Israeli F-15. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 12:18:07 AM EDT
[#49]
Combat survivability.
Pilot survivability. Brrrrrttttt Bad ass. |
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Posted: 12/5/2016 12:26:57 AM EDT
[#50]
Thread needs moar brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrtttttttt
 Awesome A-10 Thunderbolt II BRRRT Compilation |
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