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Posted: 10/28/2016 9:11:03 AM EDT
http://breakingdefense.com/2016/10/army-rolls-out-upgunned-stryker-30m-autocannon-vs-russians/
Today, after 18 months of urgent work, the Army rolled out its first upgunned Stryker vehicle, nicknamed Dragoon. The armored eight-wheel-drive troop transport, built by General Dynamics and normally armed with no more than a 0.50 calibre (12.7 millimeter) machinegun in an unprotected mount, has been rebuilt with an armored turret containing a 30 mm quickfiring cannon.
That’s enough firepower, the Army computes, to dispose of other lightly armored vehicles like the Russian BMP troop carrier. If the Russians invade the Baltics, the Stryker Dragoon can’t stop their heavy tanks, but it can thin out their scout vehicles and transports, allowing American M1 tanks to focus their 120 mm firepower on the heaviest targets. As the US military reoriented anxiously to Europe and the heavily armored Russian army, however, 12.7 mm looked awfully small. With this prototype Dragoon and its 30 mm cannon, the Army’s well on its way to fixing that. With the right airbursting ammunition, the 30 mm weapon might even take out low-flying aircraft. In parallel, to defeat Russian drones, the Army is experimenting with a low-powered anti-aircraft laser, also mounted on a Stryker. Once derided by heavy-tank hardliners as an underarmored dead end, the Stryker now seems a versatile and vital part of the Army’s future. View Quote |
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Gay. I wonder how many soldiers had to lose their jobs so the army could have the budget for that.
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http://breakingdefense.com/2016/10/army-rolls-out-upgunned-stryker-30m-autocannon-vs-russians/ Today, after 18 months of urgent work, the Army rolled out its first upgunned Stryker vehicle, nicknamed Dragoon. The armored eight-wheel-drive troop transport, built by General Dynamics and normally armed with no more than a 0.50 calibre (12.7 millimeter) machinegun in an unprotected mount, has been rebuilt with an armored turret containing a 30 mm quickfiring cannon.
That’s enough firepower, the Army computes, to dispose of other lightly armored vehicles like the Russian BMP troop carrier. If the Russians invade the Baltics, the Stryker Dragoon can’t stop their heavy tanks, but it can thin out their scout vehicles and transports, allowing American M1 tanks to focus their 120 mm firepower on the heaviest targets. As the US military reoriented anxiously to Europe and the heavily armored Russian army, however, 12.7 mm looked awfully small. With this prototype Dragoon and its 30 mm cannon, the Army’s well on its way to fixing that. With the right airbursting ammunition, the 30 mm weapon might even take out low-flying aircraft. In parallel, to defeat Russian drones, the Army is experimenting with a low-powered anti-aircraft laser, also mounted on a Stryker. Once derided by heavy-tank hardliners as an underarmored dead end, the Stryker now seems a versatile and vital part of the Army’s future. View Quote http://breakingdefense.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2016/10/IMG_6087-1-e1477593562519-1024x654.jpg View Quote Are we even going to put enough of both in the region to put up a fight or is this more posturing? |
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So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm...
Why is the Stryker's 30mm considered useless? Too slow? |
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No expert but a A10 shoots at the top of a tank where he armor plate is thin View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... Why is the Stryker's 30mm considered useless? Too slow? No expert but a A10 shoots at the top of a tank where he armor plate is thin And it still isnt effective against modern armor. |
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is it still C-130 transportable and can't stop a 23 mm?
When you polish a turd, you just smear shit everywhere. |
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So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... Why is the Stryker's 30mm considered useless? Too slow? View Quote A-10 pilot's coloring book They get to shoot the weak spots. The 30mm isn't effective against many actual tanks now. However,it would work fine vs more numerous BMD/BMP/BTR/Typhoon/LMV. |
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The difference is ours will be driven sober, with fuel and ammo, all at the same time. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Excellent, so it's caught up with the BTR-80. The difference is ours will be driven sober, with fuel and ammo, all at the same time. And ours costs 4 million per Stryker for just the new turret, whereas a complete BTR-82A goes for about a million. American defense procurement is broken beyond all measure. |
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The Bradly at least had the old TOW (which worked rather well against monkey-model T72s in Iraq).
This new Striker's got nothing for MBTs? Nothing at all??!? |
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And ours costs 4 million per Stryker for just the new turret, whereas a complete BTR-82A goes for about a million. American defense procurement is broken beyond all measure. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Excellent, so it's caught up with the BTR-80. The difference is ours will be driven sober, with fuel and ammo, all at the same time. And ours costs 4 million per Stryker for just the new turret, whereas a complete BTR-82A goes for about a million. American defense procurement is broken beyond all measure. A Jeep Wrangler costs 4 times as much as a Lada Niva. American car production is broken beyond all measure. |
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Quoted: Quoted: So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... Why is the Stryker's 30mm considered useless? Too slow? A-10 pilot's coloring book That's pretty cool. |
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And ours costs 4 million per Stryker for just the new turret, whereas a complete BTR-82A goes for about a million. American defense procurement is broken beyond all measure. View Quote Instead of bitching about it anonymously on an internet forum, I wrote the same under my real name in both the Army and Navy journals of record. So, I agree. The Army is lurching back to an MCO focus, because deterrence against land forces requires it. The reality is that U.S. military power operating completely unrestrained across all domains globally is a scary fucking thing. And the first dead Stryker driver risks that. But, its nice to give the guy a fighting chance. |
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Quoted: is it still C-130 transportable and can't stop a 23 mm? When you polish a turd, you just smear shit everywhere. View Quote Look, the military needed something that wasn't a Bradley because wheels and airmobile and hightech. Then they needed something that wasn't a Bradley, but had a gun. So they designed this. Next step is to design a vehicle which is not a Bradley, but which has armor. Then they need to design something which is not a Bradley but which has a gun, armor, and tracks. It makes perfect sense. |
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Finally a bigger bore to replace the 50 cal. Funny by 2 c.m. was pretty standard on the German ACs of WW II. Talked to a classmate whose father was in an Armored Recce unit equipped with M-8 Greyhounds. They ran whenever they saw a Sdkfz 222 AC.
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Look, the military needed something that wasn't a Bradley because wheels and airmobile and hightech. Then they needed something that wasn't a Bradley, but had a gun. So they designed this. Next step is to design a vehicle which is not a Bradley, but which has armor. Then they need to design something which is not a Bradley but which has a gun, armor, and tracks. It makes perfect sense. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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is it still C-130 transportable and can't stop a 23 mm? When you polish a turd, you just smear shit everywhere. Look, the military needed something that wasn't a Bradley because wheels and airmobile and hightech. Then they needed something that wasn't a Bradley, but had a gun. So they designed this. Next step is to design a vehicle which is not a Bradley, but which has armor. Then they need to design something which is not a Bradley but which has a gun, armor, and tracks. It makes perfect sense. yeah, I am waiting for the tracked stryker as the expeditionary non-Bradley to be permanently stationed in central Europe. |
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Wasn't there Strykers equipped with the 25mm Bushmaster? Or is the M242 in 30mm? It makes sense as there are plenty of Bradley Gunners out there so transition training wouldn't much more than refresher training...and I can personally attest to the fact that APFSDS can tear some shit up, and that the HE will skull fuck a BMP. |
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Quoted: That's actually kinda true, but a separate matter entirely. Besides, the Lada Niva is dead, long live the Chevy Niva: http://i63.tinypic.com/w9y8nc.jpg The US Army decided it wants a 30mm gun for its bronetransporters. That's good! Everyone can applaud the decision, because if they are ever going to be used in anything other than COIN, a HMG ain't shit. So rather than picking up the phone and saying Oh hey Israel how about you license that Samson RCWS to us, we decide to pick an unproven new 30mm gun and run with that. It's not like everyone from Finland to Italy and on to Israel don't already have modern 30mm WITH ATGM RWS designs (the American design is 30mm gun OR Javelin) that we could have just licensed and started building TODAY, we need to extract maximum dollars to wind up with something not quite as good as what he rest of the world has. See Stryker MGS for a perfect example. Modern American defense procurement exists to transfer money. It certainly doesn't exist to make the best product at reasonable prices. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: A Jeep Wrangler costs 4 times as much as a Lada Niva. American car production is broken beyond all measure. That's actually kinda true, but a separate matter entirely. Besides, the Lada Niva is dead, long live the Chevy Niva: http://i63.tinypic.com/w9y8nc.jpg The US Army decided it wants a 30mm gun for its bronetransporters. That's good! Everyone can applaud the decision, because if they are ever going to be used in anything other than COIN, a HMG ain't shit. So rather than picking up the phone and saying Oh hey Israel how about you license that Samson RCWS to us, we decide to pick an unproven new 30mm gun and run with that. It's not like everyone from Finland to Italy and on to Israel don't already have modern 30mm WITH ATGM RWS designs (the American design is 30mm gun OR Javelin) that we could have just licensed and started building TODAY, we need to extract maximum dollars to wind up with something not quite as good as what he rest of the world has. See Stryker MGS for a perfect example. Modern American defense procurement exists to transfer money. It certainly doesn't exist to make the best product at reasonable prices. the unmanned turret isn't an American design. It's made by Kongsberg from Norway |
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Wasn't there Strykers equipped with the 25mm Bushmaster? Or is the M242 in 30mm? It makes sense as there are plenty of Bradley Gunners out there so transition training wouldn't much more than refresher training...and I can personally attest to the fact that APFSDS can tear some shit up, and that the HE will skull fuck a BMP. View Quote When the Stryker was in development there were variants out the wazoo. Mortars, TOW, Chapparals, drone launchers, 105mm, They even stuck a twin 40mm turret on the things. |
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Quoted: And it still isnt effective against modern armor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... Why is the Stryker's 30mm considered useless? Too slow? No expert but a A10 shoots at the top of a tank where he armor plate is thin And it still isnt effective against modern armor. The A-10 cannon would rip apart the thin, 1" plain steel, top armor of the Abrams |
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When the Stryker was in development there were variants out the wazoo. Mortars, TOW, Chapparals, drone launchers, 105mm, They even stuck a twin 40mm turret on the things. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Wasn't there Strykers equipped with the 25mm Bushmaster? Or is the M242 in 30mm? It makes sense as there are plenty of Bradley Gunners out there so transition training wouldn't much more than refresher training...and I can personally attest to the fact that APFSDS can tear some shit up, and that the HE will skull fuck a BMP. When the Stryker was in development there were variants out the wazoo. Mortars, TOW, Chapparals, drone launchers, 105mm, They even stuck a twin 40mm turret on the things. That's what I thought I recalled. So were they invalidated for some reason, or is this, as referenced earlier, another "Pentagon Wars"? |
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So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... Why is the Stryker's 30mm considered useless? Too slow? View Quote The angle of attack is different when you're hitting the roof armor vs. the front or sides of a tank. Roof armor is usually the thinnest part of a track. |
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That's what I thought I recalled. So were they invalidated for some reason, or is this, as referenced earlier, another "Pentagon Wars"? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Wasn't there Strykers equipped with the 25mm Bushmaster? Or is the M242 in 30mm? It makes sense as there are plenty of Bradley Gunners out there so transition training wouldn't much more than refresher training...and I can personally attest to the fact that APFSDS can tear some shit up, and that the HE will skull fuck a BMP. When the Stryker was in development there were variants out the wazoo. Mortars, TOW, Chapparals, drone launchers, 105mm, They even stuck a twin 40mm turret on the things. That's what I thought I recalled. So were they invalidated for some reason, or is this, as referenced earlier, another "Pentagon Wars"? All procurement BS. Just going for the "Swiss Army knife" of a vehicle claim. |
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So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... Why is the Stryker's 30mm considered useless? Too slow? View Quote An AR-15 and a Marlin model 60 are both .22 - vastly different effects on target. Bore diameter is not the only measure of weapon effectiveness. |
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So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... View Quote Actually, GAU-8's effectiveness on modern tanks (not half-rusted T72s and older) is highly questionable. If said modern tanks are around, however... Stryker really shouldn't be... 30mm or not. Not without Abrams escort anyway. |
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Look, the military needed something that wasn't a Bradley because wheels and airmobile and hightech. Then they needed something that wasn't a Bradley, but had a gun. So they designed this. Next step is to design a vehicle which is not a Bradley, but which has armor. Then they need to design something which is not a Bradley but which has a gun, armor, and tracks. It makes perfect sense. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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is it still C-130 transportable and can't stop a 23 mm? When you polish a turd, you just smear shit everywhere. Look, the military needed something that wasn't a Bradley because wheels and airmobile and hightech. Then they needed something that wasn't a Bradley, but had a gun. So they designed this. Next step is to design a vehicle which is not a Bradley, but which has armor. Then they need to design something which is not a Bradley but which has a gun, armor, and tracks. It makes perfect sense. Why stop at 30mm? Upgun that sunnuvabitch some more because I know there are some boys that need another star. |
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Actually, GAU-8's effectiveness on modern tanks (not half-rusted T72s and older) is highly questionable. If said modern tanks are around, however... Stryker really shouldn't be... 30mm or not. Not without Abrams escort anyway. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So...a GAU-8 doesn't seem to have a problem fucking up a tank, and it's 30mm... Actually, GAU-8's effectiveness on modern tanks (not half-rusted T72s and older) is highly questionable. If said modern tanks are around, however... Stryker really shouldn't be... 30mm or not. Not without Abrams escort anyway. That's why they have all those hard points for stuff like Hellfires, bombs and such. Warthog will get them one way or another. |
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