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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:15:26 PM EDT
[#1]
What should the fixed dollars amount be?
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:17:50 PM EDT
[#2]
I think everyone should have skin in the game and those that don't...why are they allowed to vote? Some old customs are good customs, others not so much.
Flat tax is so much more fair than a percentage based progressive tax it's not even in the same ballpark. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:20:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What should the fixed dollars amount be? Million dollar question. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:21:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:21:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think everyone should have skin in the game and those that don't...why are they allowed to vote? Some old customs are good customs, others not so much. Flat tax is so much more fair than a percentage based progressive tax it's not even in the same ballpark. No disagreement here but this is not what I am asking. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:22:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Ideally it would be the same amount for every adult. Now if you want it to be a percentage of income, have it be X percent up to some income level then zero on everything after that or rapidly decreasing percentage as income increases.
Otherwise, you would support having people pay for groceries, cars, houses etc as a function of their income. Why should someone who makes $250,000 a year pay five times more for a gallon of milk that someone who makes $50,000 a year? The "progressive" tax system is socialistic or some other unAmerican scheme. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:22:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is giving 10% not equal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:22:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Percentage, everyone pays the same percentage.
Percentages are the ultimate in fair when talking about wages of conceivably infinite variations. If everyone pays 20% of whatever pot of money in the same category ...... then they equally lose 20% of that money. If it is a fixed flat sum of $, then people who have vastly more than that pay an effective lower percentage of the total amount of money in that category. People who have less available wealth will pay a higher percentage of the available money in that category. The only way to have things be fair/equal is to do it on a percentage. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:24:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? What if someone makes less than $1000 in a year? Should they pay 150% tax rate? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:25:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Abolish the income tax.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:26:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if someone makes less than $1000 in a year? Should they pay 150% tax rate? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? What if someone makes less than $1000 in a year? Should they pay 150% tax rate? Or a 1000% tax rate? 
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:30:03 PM EDT
[#12]
No.
Oh and "fair" is a word that does not belong in a grown adult's lexicon. While I would celebrate the abolition of the 16th Amendment and the Income tax (and all of 26 USC) I would not welcome a consumption tax or arbitrary flat tax to take its place. Get rid of both and just shrink the government to it's proper and appropriate size. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:30:31 PM EDT
[#13]
There is nothing "fairer" than a flat percentage.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:30:35 PM EDT
[#14]
No no no.
Stop punishing me and my business twice then my guys once just for making money while the welfare rats around the corner from me pay ZERO tax for collecting welfare and EBT and living in housing I pay for. No income tax is fair in any way when I pay in and people are then handed that money tax free. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:30:55 PM EDT
[#15]
No income tax, no consumption tax, no capital gains tax. Everyone pays the same dollar amount. I fucking guarantee government would be a fraction of the size it is today.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:31:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Oh and "fair" is a word that does not belong in a grown adult's lexicon. While I would celebrate the abolition of the 16th Amendment and the Income tax (and all of 26 USC) I would not welcome a consumption tax or arbitrary flat tax to take its place. Get rid of both and just shrink the government to it's proper and appropriate size. You forget the added benefit of the consumption tax........ It would greatly motivate government to support thriving business. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:33:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No no no. Stop punishing me and my business twice then my guys once just for making money while the welfare rats around the corner from me pay ZERO tax for collecting welfare and EBT and living in housing I pay for. No income tax is fair in any way when I pay in and people are then handed that money tax free. I don't think anyone is arguing the government giving individuals $ is right. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:33:50 PM EDT
[#18]
How about "It's my money, I fucking earned it, get your grubby ass government hands the fuck off of it" percent.
Get rid of income and property tax, fund everything through sales tax. Everybody pays! |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:34:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? So you think everyone should be paid the same amount, too? |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:34:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No income tax, no consumption tax, no capital gains tax. Everyone pays the same dollar amount. I fucking guarantee government would be a fraction of the size it is today. A lot of "conservatives" here would stroke out if that actually happened. lol |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:34:24 PM EDT
[#21]
 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Abolish the income tax. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:35:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think anyone is arguing the government giving individuals $ is right. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No no no. Stop punishing me and my business twice then my guys once just for making money while the welfare rats around the corner from me pay ZERO tax for collecting welfare and EBT and living in housing I pay for. No income tax is fair in any way when I pay in and people are then handed that money tax free. I don't think anyone is arguing the government giving individuals $ is right. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:36:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Equally shared pain.
At least I'd know everybody is ponying-up the same percentage no matter what "class" they are and when everyone has to pony-up they tend to be a bit more frugal and conservative in their thinking. Beats the hell out of the guy that makes 25K and under paying nothing and the guy making millions paying next to nothing because he has a good tax lawyer. Of course then it's left to what's left of the middle class to make up the shortfall from both ends not pulling their share of the load. Not to worry.....Lawyers and lobbyists will never let it happen. 
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:37:20 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm fine with paying a true proportionate share for my use and enjoyment of public goods.
If a bridge is publicly maintained and I go over the bridge, I pay the toll. If you go over the bridge, you pay the toll. If someone doesn't have enough to pay the toll, they stay off the bridge. I don't believe in a progressive tax system (like what we have today) as it unfairly over taxes people as their income levels rise. Tax should be a per capita figure and have nothing to do with an individual's income level. There are cons to a flat tax system as well, and I'm not convinced it would work effectively either. It's fair, but it's not sustainable. Hell, if I knew the answer I'd be running for president. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:40:32 PM EDT
[#25]
Sure it is fair. $100,000 good? I mean, every one here is a millionaire, right?
Consumption tax seems most appropriate to me. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:40:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You forget the added benefit of the consumption tax........ It would greatly motivate government to support thriving business. I don't want my government to "support" anything business related. They should exist to keep other nations and their armies from invading my/our land and destroying my/our property and to exist to protect our natural liberties from infringement (from whatever source). The former may be left to the Federal (maybe) however the latter is best left to the State/local governments. If any form of government should have a hand in "support[ing] thriving business" that would be at the state and local level and we don't need a federal income, consumption, or flat tax for that. That's just my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it (perhaps a bit less). |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:40:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of "conservatives" here would stroke out if that actually happened. lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No income tax, no consumption tax, no capital gains tax. Everyone pays the same dollar amount. I fucking guarantee government would be a fraction of the size it is today. A lot of "conservatives" here would stroke out if that actually happened. lol Only because we wouldnt be able to pay for the safety of western europe and various groups of illiterate 3rd worlders around the globe. So they can live in a socialist paradise while we handle their foreign policy. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:44:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about "It's my money, I fucking earned it, get your grubby ass government hands the fuck off of it" percent. Get rid of income and property tax, fund everything through sales tax. Everybody pays! This. And when you go to the ER for the sniffles or to have another of many kids, if you can't pay and are on govt assistance, the hospital can garnish your EBT. |
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:48:59 PM EDT
[#29]
No only because no tax system is fair. A guy working 40 hours a week making $20/hour pays the same taxes as a guy working 80 horus week @ 10$/hour.
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Posted: 5/23/2016 11:49:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think everyone should have skin in the game and those that don't...why are they allowed to vote? Some old customs are good customs, others not so much. Flat tax is so much more fair than a percentage based progressive tax it's not even in the same ballpark. Correct. Absolutely no tax is truly fair, the goal is to be as fair as possible. Progressive income tax is likely the least fair, flat % consumption is probably most fair. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:00:39 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? We'll never go to a fair and easy percentage income tax. The industry would never ever allow it. You wouldn't be able to find a Congressman or Senator that could turn down the millions of dollars the industry would be waving under their noses. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:09:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about "It's my money, I fucking earned it, get your grubby ass government hands the fuck off of it" percent. Get rid of income and property tax, fund everything through sales tax. Everybody pays! Want to deter people from buying stuff and stifle the shit out of the economy? Do that. In a world where sales is taxed enough to pay for everything currently funded by the current tax system, most of us would become experts in making the things we already have last as long as fucking possible. I'm reminded of the scene in the documentary "Yank Tanks" where some Cuban dude is in a shed in his back yard handling asbestos with his bare hands resurfacing brake pads. That's an extreme example, but I'd imagine it'd be a lot like that. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:15:00 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:18:29 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Percentage, everyone pays the same percentage. Percentages are the ultimate in fair when talking about wages of conceivably infinite variations. If everyone pays 20% of whatever pot of money in the same category ...... then they equally lose 20% of that money. If it is a fixed flat sum of $, then people who have vastly more than that pay an effective lower percentage of the total amount of money in that category. People who have less available wealth will pay a higher percentage of the available money in that category. The only way to have things be fair/equal is to do it on a percentage. Why not just a flat amount? If we are both paying the government to make a road why should I pay $20 and you $200? |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:20:23 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. Absolutely no tax is truly fair, the goal is to be as fair as possible. Progressive income tax is likely the least fair, flat % consumption is probably most fair. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think everyone should have skin in the game and those that don't...why are they allowed to vote? Some old customs are good customs, others not so much. Flat tax is so much more fair than a percentage based progressive tax it's not even in the same ballpark. Correct. Absolutely no tax is truly fair, the goal is to be as fair as possible. Progressive income tax is likely the least fair, flat % consumption is probably most fair. Depends on what your definition of "fair" is. The liberals have a definition that I'm sure almost no one here agrees with. Is it fair that low income people have to spend the majority of income on taxes and basic needs? Or do you exempt them? If you exempt them it isn't fair to everyone else paying. If you don't, then you basically make them slaves to the government and corporations. If genuine "basic needs" cost $15,000 a year and there is one flat tax rate at 10% someone making $30,000 pays $3,000 or 20% of available income after "basic needs". Someone making $60,000 pays $6,000 or 13.3% of their available income after "basic needs". Do you consider that fair? That takes you down the liberals train of thought. They don't want a flat 10% tax or a flat $10,000 tax. They want to take everything you have and everyone will be left with the same available income after taxes. The progressive system sort of does that and the Dems would love to make it do that again. There is no simple "fair tax". Especially once you factor in government tax credits which are used to bribe people into doing things the government wants. To make it fair all deductions have to be eliminated but then you have people who stop caring and trying which hurts the economy and then the country as a whole. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:22:03 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if someone makes less than $1000 in a year? Should they pay 150% tax rate? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? What if someone makes less than $1000 in a year? Should they pay 150% tax rate? That's not what I am saying....I am saying that percentages in and of themselves are a form of redistributions. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:23:44 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you think everyone should be paid the same amount, too? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? Because $10000 does not equal $1000 Why should one guy have to pay more than the next form the exact same thing? So you think everyone should be paid the same amount, too? No! What's the fuck did I say that.. I want income tax abolished |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:26:29 AM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:27:12 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? While I disagree with your premise. A straight flat percentage would be the fairest we are likely to get. Since the poor pay no taxes and the more money you make the bigger percentage you pay...... That being said I think the fairest option would be to have a flat tax on purchases and not income. Then anyone who saves their money is not penalized. Then you if purchase an economy car you pay a flat 10 percent or if someone wants to buy a multi million dollar yacht they pay a flat 10 percent. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:32:12 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? Everyone paying the same dollar amount is the fairest tax of all. I've been called a retarded lunatic for suggesting it. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:33:11 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No income tax, no consumption tax, no capital gains tax. Everyone pays the same dollar amount. I fucking guarantee government would be a fraction of the size it is today. 
And what dollar amount might that be? It has to be high enough for there to be enough revenue for the government to operate, but it needs to be realistically attainable for... everyone? |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:34:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure it is fair. $100,000 good? I mean, every one here is a millionaire, right? Consumption tax seems most appropriate to me. I would rather pay a consumption tax than a percentage based flat tax |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:34:24 AM EDT
[#43]
I'm sure students working part time would love that too. I'f the tax was only $1,500/yr, someone making 7.50 an hour would have to work 40 hrs a week for 5 weeks just to pay taxes.
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:35:28 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Oh and "fair" is a word that does not belong in a grown adult's lexicon. While I would celebrate the abolition of the 16th Amendment and the Income tax (and all of 26 USC) I would not welcome a consumption tax or arbitrary flat tax to take its place. Get rid of both and just shrink the government to it's proper and appropriate size. Fair is a great thing if people wernt to busy to to fuck the other guy. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:37:08 AM EDT
[#45]
None
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:37:11 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you for real? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? This is a philosophical discussion... So yes I am real? |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:40:09 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on what your definition of "fair" is. The liberals have a definition that I'm sure almost no one here agrees with. Is it fair that low income people have to spend the majority of income on taxes and basic needs? Or do you exempt them? If you exempt them it isn't fair to everyone else paying. If you don't, then you basically make them slaves to the government and corporations. If genuine "basic needs" cost $15,000 a year and there is one flat tax rate at 10% someone making $30,000 pays $3,000 or 20% of available income after "basic needs". Someone making $60,000 pays $6,000 or 13.3% of their available income after "basic needs". Do you consider that fair? That takes you down the liberals train of thought. They don't want a flat 10% tax or a flat $10,000 tax. They want to take everything you have and everyone will be left with the same available income after taxes. The progressive system sort of does that and the Dems would love to make it do that again. There is no simple "fair tax". Especially once you factor in government tax credits which are used to bribe people into doing things the government wants. To make it fair all deductions have to be eliminated but then you have people who stop caring and trying which hurts the economy and then the country as a whole. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think everyone should have skin in the game and those that don't...why are they allowed to vote? Some old customs are good customs, others not so much. Flat tax is so much more fair than a percentage based progressive tax it's not even in the same ballpark. Correct. Absolutely no tax is truly fair, the goal is to be as fair as possible. Progressive income tax is likely the least fair, flat % consumption is probably most fair. Depends on what your definition of "fair" is. The liberals have a definition that I'm sure almost no one here agrees with. Is it fair that low income people have to spend the majority of income on taxes and basic needs? Or do you exempt them? If you exempt them it isn't fair to everyone else paying. If you don't, then you basically make them slaves to the government and corporations. If genuine "basic needs" cost $15,000 a year and there is one flat tax rate at 10% someone making $30,000 pays $3,000 or 20% of available income after "basic needs". Someone making $60,000 pays $6,000 or 13.3% of their available income after "basic needs". Do you consider that fair? That takes you down the liberals train of thought. They don't want a flat 10% tax or a flat $10,000 tax. They want to take everything you have and everyone will be left with the same available income after taxes. The progressive system sort of does that and the Dems would love to make it do that again. There is no simple "fair tax". Especially once you factor in government tax credits which are used to bribe people into doing things the government wants. To make it fair all deductions have to be eliminated but then you have people who stop caring and trying which hurts the economy and then the country as a whole. Nailed it |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:41:50 AM EDT
[#48]
I think percentage is fair. 10% or what ever, is fair. It's still 10%.
My way would work like this. Under poverty level 5% Above poverty level 10% Above a million 15% Above a Billion 20% Everyone has some skin in the game. |
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:42:01 AM EDT
[#49]
As stated up thread, the problem with a consumption tax is it would kill the economy and it is to easily avoided through the black market.
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Posted: 5/24/2016 12:42:34 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is giving 10% not equal? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or do you think it should be a flat rate dollar amount? When speaking to income tax not sales tax. I have never liked percentage based taxes.. How is it fair if the tax is 10% and I male $10000 a year and only pay $1000 yet you make $100000 and pay $10000 in taxes? How is that not bullshit in your mind? How is giving 10% not equal? Good question. Imagine this: we have a cost of government. We divide that cost by the number of eligible taxpayers (assume all able adults age 18 to 60 - this is an illustration - don't get stuck on the numbers). That is the individual tax burden per taxpayer, no percentage required, and theoretically more "fair" than a percentage. |
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