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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:07:07 PM EDT
[#1]
" slave of Christ" commended "slave of sin" condemned Jesus had all the time in the world to denounce slavery, when He walked the earth. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:09:39 PM EDT
[#2]
If you were the head of a kind, loving household, and you knew that by buying and owning a slave family you could keep them all together and keep them "safe" from a cruel master, what could we say then? Would you be evil or charitable by becoming a slave master?
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:09:41 PM EDT
[#3]
It would be incorrect to say that the church never spoke out against hereditary slavery. There was a period of time wherein many American churches did not, but trying to cast the actions of some congregations in one country during a brief window of time as indicative of a global faith spanning 2000 years would be inaccurate.
Speaking specifically of that small sub-set of Christendom that you refer to, it's merely an example of cognitive dissonance and rationalization. I think one of the more popular views was that blacks were untermenschen and the white man had a divine obligation to subjugate and care for them. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:10:40 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:11:00 PM EDT
[#5]
This is one of those things where if you take a good honest look at it you will discover something. I considered this as well as a few other things not long ago and....it didn't bode well for my continuing church participation.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:11:46 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm sure that plenty of slaves were Christians....
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:12:33 PM EDT
[#7]
Doesn't the bible at some point speak of the need for a slave to be respectful, obedient, and subservient to his master, and vice versa?
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:12:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
I've been wondering about this: While many peoples throughout history have practiced slavery (and some still do), it seems that slavery is incompatible with Christianity in particular. How else does one interpret the commandment to love one another and to treat your neighbor as yourself? Yet even the early Christian church did not speak out against slavery and obviously scores of good, God-fearing people somehow managed to go to Church and live a Christian life while accepting slavery as an institution. Does anyone know of a scholarly article that deals with this? The early Christian church was comprised mostly of Jews. There is much written on slavery in Jewish-Hebrew tradition. It's easy to judge people looking backwards through the "advantages" of present day ethics. imo Probably the most poignant piece on early Christian church views on slavery was written by Paul in the epistle Philemon. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:14:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Christian denominations varied in their support and/or opposition to slavery.
I believe that one of the reasons that slavery was never terribly common in western europe (post rome) was Christian teachings. Why this didn't influence American slavery more is a good question. Some individuals violate every one of the ten commandments yet still go to Church... That means nothing. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:15:39 PM EDT
[#10]
What does scripture say?
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:15:50 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't the bible at some point speak of the need for a slave to be respectful, obedient, and subservient to his master, and vice versa? Yes. Which is in no way an endorsement of the institution of slavery, any more than the talk of how martyrs are to conduct themselves is an endorsement of the oppression and murder of Christians. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:16:25 PM EDT
[#12]
1 Timothy 6:1-2 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God’s name and our teaching may not be slandered. 2 Those who have believing masters should not show them disrespect just because they are fellow believers. Instead, they should serve them even better because their masters are dear to them as fellow believers and are devoted to the welfare[a] of their slaves.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:21:34 PM EDT
[#13]
I think the "problem" is that many Americans have a picture in their minds of slavery as Snidely Whiplash beating his slave (Uncle Tom) with a whip on a whim.
Biblical slaves were more like indentured servants, working to pay off a debt. At the end of their service they were even given instructions on how to continue to work for their masters if they wanted too. Masters were not to mistreat their indentured servants and most did not. It was not as cut and dried as many think. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:22:17 PM EDT
[#14]
In "ancient times" slavery was commonplace, worldwide. Why did those damned ancient people not have our modern sentiments about social institutions? Indeed.
Slavery is still common in some parts of Africa. But since mainly moslems are doing it against Christians, nobody cares. http://articles.latimes.com/2013/oct/17/world/la-fg-wn-slavery-africa-20131017 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_contemporary_Africa In more recent times Wilberforce lobbied the UK for many year to abolish slavery beating us by about 30 years. His abolitionist views stemmed from his Christian faith. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:23:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I've been wondering about this: While many peoples throughout history have practiced slavery (and some still do), it seems that slavery is incompatible with Christianity in particular. How else does one interpret the commandment to love one another and to treat your neighbor as yourself? Yet even the early Christian church did not speak out against slavery and obviously scores of good, God-fearing people somehow managed to go to Church and live a Christian life while accepting slavery as an institution. Does anyone know of a scholarly article that deals with this? I'd like to know this as well. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:28:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the "problem" is that many Americans have a picture in their minds of slavery as Snidely Whiplash beating his slave (Uncle Tom) with a whip on a whim. Biblical slaves were more like indentured servants, working to pay off a debt. At the end of their service they were even given instructions on how to continue to work for their masters if they wanted too. Masters were not to mistreat their indentured servants and most did not. It was not as cut and dried as many think. Biblical "slavery" was in fact indentured servitude, not the hereditary slavery Zhukov is referring to. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:31:08 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the "problem" is that many Americans have a picture in their minds of slavery as Snidely Whiplash beating his slave (Uncle Tom) with a whip on a whim. Biblical slaves were more like indentured servants, working to pay off a debt. At the end of their service they were even given instructions on how to continue to work for their masters if they wanted too. Masters were not to mistreat their indentured servants and most did not. It was not as cut and dried as many think. This I think the Hebrews had firm rules on the treatment of "slaves" and they where to be treated as human beings not animals. More of an employee and there compensation was food, shelter, and protection. My understanding anyway. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:32:07 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Christian denominations varied in their support and/or opposition to slavery. I believe that one of the reasons that slavery was never terribly common in western europe (post rome) was Christian teachings. Western Europe had serfdom, whihc was pretty much slavery, and more universal than race-based slavery ever was in North America. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:32:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: I've been wondering about this: While many peoples throughout history have practiced slavery (and some still do), it seems that slavery is incompatible with Christianity in particular. How else does one interpret the commandment to love one another and to treat your neighbor as yourself? Yet even the early Christian church did not speak out against slavery and obviously scores of good, God-fearing people somehow managed to go to Church and live a Christian life while accepting slavery as an institution. Does anyone know of a scholarly article that deals with this? 1. Slavery was an institution that predated Christianity, and existed in history for 20,000 years of civilization before Christianity showed up. Christianity did undermine slavery, by saying that a slave should be treated as a brother. Once Constantine Christianized the Empire you see a gradual reform of the institution to make it more humane. In Star Trek they look at people who use money as barbarians. Yet from our perspective today, it is an indispensable part of society. To someone in 50 AD in the Roman Empire, slavery looked equally indispensable. 2. Life was very brutal up until recently. In ancient times, if someone fed you, they pretty much owned you regardless of the legalities. The Pater Familias in Roman culture could put any of the members of his household, slave or free, to death without reprisal from the state. On the same token, slaves of the Emperor could rise to important government functions and practically outrank 90% of humanity. For most of human history legalities were legalities, and the strong did as they liked. To point you in the right direction on scholarly articles, I would look to histories covering the Late Roman Empire. You're looking at from about 300 AD to about 1000 AD to see how Christianity interacted with slavery once it became a societal force. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:39:20 PM EDT
[#20]
There are different forms of slavery. We identify with one - involuntary slaves.
At the time of Christ there were also term contracted slaves. Those were free people who would sell themselves into slavery (they chose their master and their contract price, and their term). It was a way to earn a retirement, or perhaps even buy citizenship. If you invested your contract price, and did several contracts - you might be wealthy enough to buy property or a business when it was all over. Per Jewish law, the term would expire every 7 years. Involuntary servitude is also still around today within the criminal justice system. Plus we have wage slaves today. Honestly, debt slaves makes more slaves than our current welfare system. It is very much the same as our current welfare system - but they had to work to get their meals paid for. ---- there is a part of the bible that mentions the bad slave was cast out in the night. Most do not realize that was essentially a death sentence. They would no longer be given the opportunity to work or food, shelter, or a community to live in. And outside community, nature kills. They were persona non-Grata - unwelcome. --- ok more musing. A good slave was a valued member of the household. They would not inherit, but they would reap some rewards if the household prospered. We seem to forget, most teachers at that time were probably slaves under contract. They were essentially w-2 employees. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:40:48 PM EDT
[#21]
They asked who could question the Word of God when the Bible says, "slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling" (Ephesians 6:5), or "tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect" (Titus 2:9).
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:43:42 PM EDT
[#22]
actually Christian Europe were the first the denounce slavery.
Muslims bought the slaves from local slavers and resold in the west if Christians are responsible for Slavery then Hindus are responsible for ISIL. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:46:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
actually Christian Europe were the first the denounce slavery. Muslims bought the slaves from local slavers and resold in the west if Christians are responsible for Slavery then Hindus are responsible for ISIL. The purchasers in the West were typically Christian. So why whitewash it? |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:49:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The purchasers in the West were typically Christian. So why whitewash it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
actually Christian Europe were the first the denounce slavery. Muslims bought the slaves from local slavers and resold in the west if Christians are responsible for Slavery then Hindus are responsible for ISIL. The purchasers in the West were typically Christian. So why whitewash it? How many did the pope buy? |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:50:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Western Europe had serfdom, whihc was pretty much slavery, and more universal than race-based slavery ever was in North America. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Christian denominations varied in their support and/or opposition to slavery. I believe that one of the reasons that slavery was never terribly common in western europe (post rome) was Christian teachings. Western Europe had serfdom, whihc was pretty much slavery, and more universal than race-based slavery ever was in North America. Serf-dom was caused by a range of economic and social pressures, and I don't think that it's appropriate to call it slavery, in any event. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:50:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Slavery was so ubiquitous in the ancient world, and indeed throughout most of human history, that people of earlier time periods quite possibly took its existence for granted. Ancient slaves' lives were not that different from the lives of the poor, in fact some Roman slaves may well have had a better shot at a full belly than the free poor. There is also this: To us slavery is a great evil because it deprives the slave of liberty and to us the difference between liberty and slavery is night and day. Yet in the ancient world liberty as we know it did not exist and the difference between slave and the poor free could be barely distinguishable.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:51:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the "problem" is that many Americans have a picture in their minds of slavery as Snidely Whiplash beating his slave (Uncle Tom) with a whip on a whim. Biblical slaves were more like indentured servants, working to pay off a debt. At the end of their service they were even given instructions on how to continue to work for their masters if they wanted too. Masters were not to mistreat their indentured servants and most did not. It was not as cut and dried as many think. no. slaves were mostly the pillage of warfare. It was understood that if you surrendered during war you became a slave. this makes it no less repugnant, just the way it was. And to the OP's point, There is a reason Thomas Jefferson was so adamant that there be a wall between church and state. because it was the bible thumping moralists of Massachusetts that wanted to ban slavery. that which does not pick my pocket (nor fuck with my slave owning) or something... |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:54:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many did the pope buy? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
actually Christian Europe were the first the denounce slavery. Muslims bought the slaves from local slavers and resold in the west if Christians are responsible for Slavery then Hindus are responsible for ISIL. The purchasers in the West were typically Christian. So why whitewash it? How many did the pope buy? I don't think the Pope needed to pay for slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_slavery#Slavery_incorporated_into_canon_law n the early thirteenth century, official support for slavery and the slave trade was incorporated into Canon Law (Corpus Iuris Canonici), by Pope Gregory IX,.[61] Canon law provided for four just titles for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave. Slavery was imposed as an ecclesiastical penalty by General Councils and local Church councils and Popes, 1179-1535... (a) The crime of assisting the Saracens 1179-1450..... (b) The crime of selling Christian slaves to the Saracens 1425. Pope Martin V issued two constitutions. Traffic in Christian slaves was not forbidden, but only their sale to non Christian masters. (c) The crime of brigandage in the Pyrenees mountainous districts, 1179. (d) Unjust aggression or other crimes, 1309-1535. The penalty of capture and enslavement for Christian families or cities or states was enacted several times by Popes. Those sentenced included Venetians in 1309.[62] Pope Gregory XI, excommunicated the Florentines and ordered them to be enslaved if captured[63] Little seems to have happened before the order was removed. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:56:32 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The purchasers in the West were typically Christian. So why whitewash it? |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:58:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally written in Revelation 19:17-18
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.” And the prophecies were that slavery would exist up to the end times. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:58:28 PM EDT
[#31]
anything in the Bible that says slavery is bad?
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Posted: 7/6/2015 4:59:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think the Pope needed to pay for slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_slavery#Slavery_incorporated_into_canon_law n the early thirteenth century, official support for slavery and the slave trade was incorporated into Canon Law (Corpus Iuris Canonici), by Pope Gregory IX,.[61] Canon law provided for four just titles for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave. Slavery was imposed as an ecclesiastical penalty by General Councils and local Church councils and Popes, 1179-1535... (a) The crime of assisting the Saracens 1179-1450..... (b) The crime of selling Christian slaves to the Saracens 1425. Pope Martin V issued two constitutions. Traffic in Christian slaves was not forbidden, but only their sale to non Christian masters. (c) The crime of brigandage in the Pyrenees mountainous districts, 1179. (d) Unjust aggression or other crimes, 1309-1535. The penalty of capture and enslavement for Christian families or cities or states was enacted several times by Popes. Those sentenced included Venetians in 1309.[62] Pope Gregory XI, excommunicated the Florentines and ordered them to be enslaved if captured[63] Little seems to have happened before the order was removed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: actually Christian Europe were the first the denounce slavery. Muslims bought the slaves from local slavers and resold in the west if Christians are responsible for Slavery then Hindus are responsible for ISIL. The purchasers in the West were typically Christian. So why whitewash it? How many did the pope buy? I don't think the Pope needed to pay for slaves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_slavery#Slavery_incorporated_into_canon_law n the early thirteenth century, official support for slavery and the slave trade was incorporated into Canon Law (Corpus Iuris Canonici), by Pope Gregory IX,.[61] Canon law provided for four just titles for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave. Slavery was imposed as an ecclesiastical penalty by General Councils and local Church councils and Popes, 1179-1535... (a) The crime of assisting the Saracens 1179-1450..... (b) The crime of selling Christian slaves to the Saracens 1425. Pope Martin V issued two constitutions. Traffic in Christian slaves was not forbidden, but only their sale to non Christian masters. (c) The crime of brigandage in the Pyrenees mountainous districts, 1179. (d) Unjust aggression or other crimes, 1309-1535. The penalty of capture and enslavement for Christian families or cities or states was enacted several times by Popes. Those sentenced included Venetians in 1309.[62] Pope Gregory XI, excommunicated the Florentines and ordered them to be enslaved if captured[63] Little seems to have happened before the order was removed. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:01:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Are you talking about just Christian slaveowners? Or slaveowners in areas/countries that had (some level of) Christian influence?
If the latter, then accepting the world as it is, while doing what you can to bring about the Kingdom of God, is what Christianity is all about. Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, right? Slavery is principally an economic institution, after all. Yes, it's wrong, but it's also wrong in the same sort of way that Communism is. It's a collective guilt, notwithstanding the behavior of any individual person. The modern parallel of abortion might shed some light on it. Yes, it's wrong. Yes, you should oppose it. The Church certainly does oppose it. But fundamentally, you can't control the past (say, a supreme court decision), and you can't control the actions of any other particular person. Do what you can, but accept your limitations without guilt. So, as a Christian, obviously you're called to not participate, encourage others not to participate, and to pray for the morally just side of things. But you also need to accept that there's a limit to what you're going to be capable of. That's not resignation. It doesn't mean give up. But you don't need to apologize for having human limitations. God created you with those limitations, and quite on purpose. But if you're talking specifically about the religious justifications written and said by certain leaders in the 19th Century American South? That, I can't explain. Maybe just file under, "lol, Protestants." |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:02:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
anything in the Bible that says slavery is bad? Nope. But that is not as big of a deal as some may think. The Bible is about mankind's eternal Salvation. If a person is free or slave and dies in their sins, they will all go to the same place. The Bible is more concerned about that happens for eternity than for 70 years on earth. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:02:45 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many did the pope buy? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
actually Christian Europe were the first the denounce slavery. Muslims bought the slaves from local slavers and resold in the west if Christians are responsible for Slavery then Hindus are responsible for ISIL. The purchasers in the West were typically Christian. So why whitewash it? How many did the pope buy? The Spaniards had their own version of slavery made America's look like Sunday school |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:05:56 PM EDT
[#36]
The bible says not to rely on the church to guide you. It's up to you to read and interpret the scripture on your own. Just because the church says it's okay, doesn't mean that it is.
I've read that that slavery in the bible was a completely different concept. It referred more to what we know now as welfare. If you couldn't feed your family, you could become indebted to someone who was better off as a means to survive. I believe there are specific rules as to how long it would last and how you were treated. Much different than slavery as we've come to know it. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:10:11 PM EDT
[#37]
People always downplay things they like that the Bible condemns, and always overstate things they do not like that the Bible condemns.
For example, take alcohol. The Bible says quite clearly that getting drunk is a sin. It does not prohibit drinking wine. Some Christian denominations use alcohol during communion. Others preach that alcohol is inherently evil. A better example might be homosexuality and heterosexual fornication. I have known many "the gays are evil, deserve to go to hell" Christians who at the same time engage in fornication. Both behaviors are sins according to the Bible. The Bible does not rank any particular sin as being more damning than any other. And yet, in their eyes, heterosexual fornication is not a big deal while homosexual fornication is. Why? Because unlike homosexual fornication, heterosexual fornication is "normal" and "socially acceptable." These kinds of attitudes are common for a whole host of issues, and the issues change from generation to generation. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:10:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I've been wondering about this: While many peoples throughout history have practiced slavery (and some still do), it seems that slavery is incompatible with Christianity in particular. How else does one interpret the commandment to love one another and to treat your neighbor as yourself? Yet even the early Christian church did not speak out against slavery and obviously scores of good, God-fearing people somehow managed to go to Church and live a Christian life while accepting slavery as an institution. Does anyone know of a scholarly article that deals with this? Using your same logic, in a hundred or two years, people could look back and say something similar about abortion and how prevalent it is today even when Christianity is even more prevalent. Heck, even Christians kill their unborn children just like I'm sure there were Christians that owned slaves. It doesn't mean it is accepted or falls in line with Christian values. Even Christians are human and are subject to sin just as non-Christians are. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:11:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: anything in the Bible that says slavery is bad? |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:12:03 PM EDT
[#40]
The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves
The Slaves That Time Forgot There were many white slaves and indentured throughout early America.....Çanada & Australia. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:12:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I've been wondering about this: While many peoples throughout history have practiced slavery (and some still do), it seems that slavery is incompatible with Christianity in particular. How else does one interpret the commandment to love one another and to treat your neighbor as yourself? Yet even the early Christian church did not speak out against slavery and obviously scores of good, God-fearing people somehow managed to go to Church and live a Christian life while accepting slavery as an institution. Does anyone know of a scholarly article that deals with this? Slavery means a lot of different things to a lot of different people over various cultures and time periods. It wasn't always race based. It wasn't always life long. Is serfdom a form of slavery? Is toiling all day for a small amount of pay and being stuck doing the same thing over and over (though technically free) much different than someone technically owning you and providing your care while you work their land? It used to just be an accepted lot in life. So were eunuchs. The concept that all men are created equal is more modern than the Bible. The Bible also supported women being basically second class citizens and chattel in many cases. They were supposed to be subservient to the man and silent in the temples etc. The Bible did command you treated them well, at least. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:13:58 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves The Slaves That Time Forgot There were many white slaves and indentured throughout early America.....Çanada & Australia. What does that have to do with Zhukov's question? |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:13:59 PM EDT
[#43]
There was an interesting show on PBS last year about Christianity in the thirteen colonies before the Revolution. When laying the framework for a new country, there were many that were opposed to slavery from a religious standpoint and wanted it done away with. However, they were afraid that the southern colonies would not go along with this and without the uniting of all the colonies, they would never defeat the British. Does this make it right from a moral standpoint? No, but the alternative for them was continued oppressive British rule.
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:16:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Serf-dom was caused by a range of economic and social pressures, and I don't think that it's appropriate to call it slavery, in any event. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Christian denominations varied in their support and/or opposition to slavery. I believe that one of the reasons that slavery was never terribly common in western europe (post rome) was Christian teachings. Western Europe had serfdom, whihc was pretty much slavery, and more universal than race-based slavery ever was in North America. Serf-dom was caused by a range of economic and social pressures, and I don't think that it's appropriate to call it slavery, in any event. It differed in no important aspect. you couldn't leave, didn't get paid, could not marry without permission, and could not choose your profession. Plus your kids were serfs as well.. SO - how was it any better? |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:18:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does that have to do with Zhukov's question? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves The Slaves That Time Forgot There were many white slaves and indentured throughout early America.....Çanada & Australia. What does that have to do with Zhukov's question? Hmmm let's see Christianity and the slave trade...here are more examples of Christians and the slave trade.... What are you Zhukov's self appointment post fielder now? |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:18:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
I've been wondering about this: While many peoples throughout history have practiced slavery (and some still do), it seems that slavery is incompatible with Christianity in particular. How else does one interpret the commandment to love one another and to treat your neighbor as yourself? Yet even the early Christian church did not speak out against slavery and obviously scores of good, God-fearing people somehow managed to go to Church and live a Christian life while accepting slavery as an institution. Does anyone know of a scholarly article that deals with this? 1. Why is this in GD instead of Religion? 2. Read Philemon, Slave holders were instructed to treat slaves as brothers (BC New Testament slavery was more indentured servitude, than "Gone with the wind") |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:19:54 PM EDT
[#47]
you know why brother
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:20:20 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because unlike homosexual fornication, heterosexual fornication is "normal" and "socially acceptable." Just to point out, the Bible was written by (mostly) Jews/Hebrews. There is the Hebrew tradition/custom to pork a bit before getting married to make sure the other person is fertile/virile. Miss a period, schedule the wedding. Otherwise, that's okay, you're still "virgins." It also changes the game a bit when you have a rigidly defined rite of passage to adulthood, with marriage expected not too long after that point, and it's when you're about 13-14. Change the bar/bat mitzvah to "high school" and change marriage to "prom night," and you're really not too far off modern culture. And keep in mind, the Torah, and especially the Decalogue, takes a really strong stance on adultery and covetousness, but really doesn't make nearly as big a deal on fornication. I'd say it's more accurate that the Bible, and the culture that wrote it, doesn't mind so terribly much that people fornicate, but does mind that they do it with multiple partners without any intention of ever making a commitment to form a family. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:21:19 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Slavery means a lot of different things to a lot of different people over various cultures and time periods. It wasn't always race based. It wasn't always life long. Is serfdom a form of slavery? Is toiling all day for a small amount of pay and being stuck doing the same thing over and over (though technically free) much different than someone technically owning you and providing your care while you work their land? It used to just be an accepted lot in life. So were eunuchs. The concept that all men are created equal is more modern than the Bible. The Bible also supported women being basically second class citizens and chattel in many cases. They were supposed to be subservient to the man and silent in the temples etc. The Bible did command you treated them well, at least. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 5:23:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Slavery as practiced in the modern sense from 1441 onward is completely different than that in the ancient world.
Never prohibited in the Bible, but if you look at all the God's direction and laws concerning Jewish treatment of slaves, you will see it much more to what we consider indentured servants. Esp when you are to free them after 6 years of service. Now, what the Romans, Greeks and other ancient cultures did, well, that too was a different ball of wax as my granddaddy used to say |
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