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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:41:08 PM EDT
[#1]
"Ours is the best-equipped fighting force in history, and it is incomparably the most expensive. By all measures, today’s professionalized military is also better trained, motivated, and disciplined than during the draft-army years. No decent person who is exposed to today’s troops can be anything but respectful of them and grateful for what they do.
Yet repeatedly this force has been defeated by less modern, worse-equipped, barely funded foes. Or it has won skirmishes and battles only to lose or get bogged down in a larger war. Although no one can agree on an exact figure, our dozen years of war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and neighboring countries have cost at least $1.5 trillion; Linda J. Bilmes, of the Harvard Kennedy School, recently estimated that the total cost could be three to four times that much. Recall that while Congress was considering whether to authorize the Iraq War, the head of the White House economic council, Lawrence B. Lindsey, was forced to resign for telling The Wall Street Journal that the all-in costs might be as high as $100 billion to $200 billion, or less than the U.S. has spent on Iraq and Afghanistan in many individual years." |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:45:26 PM EDT
[#2]
I disagree that it has been defeated. It wins every engagement it undertakes. The problem is that when you define "victory" as making a bunch of savages into civilized men you set yourself up for failure. Even the Romans took generations to turn places like Gaul and Briton into some semblance of civilization.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:48:08 PM EDT
[#3]
Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:51:37 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm looking forward to the comments by our Command and Staff College and War College graduates.
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:56:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Fallows is only right by mistake. This jackass has been pontificating about the military since the 1980s, at least, and I can't think of a damn thing he's gotten right, yet.
The US military has issues, and I'll be the first to agree with that. Those issues are not the ones this idiot is trying to point out--Most of what he's criticizing has more to do with the politicians than the military. If they set impossible goals, like "bring democracy and modernity to Afghanistan and Iraq within less than a decade", of fucking course the mission is going to fail. Every professional soldier I knew, which is not to say every officer and senior NCO in the Army, just those who saw it as a vocation and who studied military science and history, all said that we'd need to stay in Iraq for fifty years, at a minimum. We left long before the project was complete. Of course, ISIS moved in to feast on the remains. The Iraqi government and people needed decades of tutelage and mentoring to get to the point where they could live within a successful federation of ethnic groups. The brilliant geniuses of the Obama administration wanted that obligation to be gone, and we're now where we are. It didn't help that the Obama crew told the Iraqis to deal with all the prisoners at Camp Bucca, and not to massacre them when we turned them over. Nine-tenths of ISIS higher leadership came out of there, so that should tell you how brilliant the Obama foreign policy really is. |
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Posted: 1/30/2015 11:56:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will. That's it in a nutshell. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:00:56 AM EDT
[#7]
the only reason our military does not get every victory is politicians
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:04:00 AM EDT
[#8]
It's hard to get results with your hands tied behind your back.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:05:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will. I am a US Army Command and General Staff College grad and I approve this message. I worked with SF guys back in 2010 who still believed in the hearts and minds, by, through, with bs… It has never worked. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:07:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the only reason our military does not get every victory is politicians Sometimes I think they are being distracted or preoccupied; almost as if the folks sending them off to war are trying to find foreign enemies so that the military doesn't discover domestic ones. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:07:28 AM EDT
[#11]
The bar for "victory" is entirely too high in Afghanistan and Iraq. When you start a war with the stated goal of turning third world Islamic shitholes into nothing less than Switzerland with warm weather, you are bound to come up short.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:10:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Damn but that is one long-ass article.
I did see that where I am from (in NC( has a strong presence in our Military; I could have told them that. 
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:17:34 AM EDT
[#13]
I'll refrain from what I was going to say due to the fear of reprisal for criticizing the CoC, but our military is in a sad state of affairs due to the current leadership.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:18:24 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Ours is the best-equipped fighting force in history, and it is incomparably the most expensive. By all measures, today’s professionalized military is also better trained, motivated, and disciplined than during the draft-army years. No decent person who is exposed to today’s troops can be anything but respectful of them and grateful for what they do. Yet repeatedly this force has been defeated by less modern, worse-equipped, barely funded foes. Or it has won skirmishes and battles only to lose or get bogged down in a larger war. Although no one can agree on an exact figure, our dozen years of war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and neighboring countries have cost at least $1.5 trillion; Linda J. Bilmes, of the Harvard Kennedy School, recently estimated that the total cost could be three to four times that much. Recall that while Congress was considering whether to authorize the Iraq War, the head of the White House economic council, Lawrence B. Lindsey, was forced to resign for telling The Wall Street Journal that the all-in costs might be as high as $100 billion to $200 billion, or less than the U.S. has spent on Iraq and Afghanistan in many individual years." Ha ha. No. The inability of politicians to formulate realistic victory conditions and then pursue them is not the same thing as military defeat. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:24:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will. Not a military guy here but we are fighting a war where the enemy does not wear a uniform and does not fight in a conventional way. The enemies you sighted did. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:24:53 AM EDT
[#16]
If they don't end sequestration, we can kiss the "best trained, best equipped, motivated..." Comments goodbye.
We have "laid off" thousands of highly trained, and competent leaders with combat experience. Much of the "cost" of the wars that are "over" was bringing them on, and training them during war. And that war isn't done, when we have to replace those guys, we will pay the price again in blood and money. We are in an era of Strategic buffoonery. The NSS essentially says that we will "do more (everything) with less." That we will be prepared for anything, and focus on nothing. There is no defined threat, only a vague mention of finishing the current annoying wars while we pivot to the Pacific. What a joke. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:28:20 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha ha. No. The inability of the electorate to elect politicians to formulate realistic victory conditions and then pursue them is not the same thing as military defeat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "Ours is the best-equipped fighting force in history, and it is incomparably the most expensive. By all measures, today’s professionalized military is also better trained, motivated, and disciplined than during the draft-army years. No decent person who is exposed to today’s troops can be anything but respectful of them and grateful for what they do. Yet repeatedly this force has been defeated by less modern, worse-equipped, barely funded foes. Or it has won skirmishes and battles only to lose or get bogged down in a larger war. Although no one can agree on an exact figure, our dozen years of war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and neighboring countries have cost at least $1.5 trillion; Linda J. Bilmes, of the Harvard Kennedy School, recently estimated that the total cost could be three to four times that much. Recall that while Congress was considering whether to authorize the Iraq War, the head of the White House economic council, Lawrence B. Lindsey, was forced to resign for telling The Wall Street Journal that the all-in costs might be as high as $100 billion to $200 billion, or less than the U.S. has spent on Iraq and Afghanistan in many individual years." Ha ha. No. The inability of the electorate to elect politicians to formulate realistic victory conditions and then pursue them is not the same thing as military defeat.  LULZ who cares about foreign affairs. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:33:27 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:36:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Or it has won skirmishes and battles only to lose or get bogged down in a larger war |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:38:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will. This thread over. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:44:22 AM EDT
[#21]
As far as death ratios and infrastructure destroyed we have never lost a war.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:46:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ha ha. No. The inability of politicians to formulate realistic victory conditions and then pursue them is not the same thing as military defeat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "Ours is the best-equipped fighting force in history, and it is incomparably the most expensive. By all measures, today’s professionalized military is also better trained, motivated, and disciplined than during the draft-army years. No decent person who is exposed to today’s troops can be anything but respectful of them and grateful for what they do. Yet repeatedly this force has been defeated by less modern, worse-equipped, barely funded foes. Or it has won skirmishes and battles only to lose or get bogged down in a larger war. Although no one can agree on an exact figure, our dozen years of war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and neighboring countries have cost at least $1.5 trillion; Linda J. Bilmes, of the Harvard Kennedy School, recently estimated that the total cost could be three to four times that much. Recall that while Congress was considering whether to authorize the Iraq War, the head of the White House economic council, Lawrence B. Lindsey, was forced to resign for telling The Wall Street Journal that the all-in costs might be as high as $100 billion to $200 billion, or less than the U.S. has spent on Iraq and Afghanistan in many individual years." Ha ha. No. The inability of politicians to formulate realistic victory conditions and then pursue them is not the same thing as military defeat. I believe there was a Chinese man who lived 2500 years ago who had something to say about it: "Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist seeks battle only after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory." "There are three ways in which a ruler can bring misfortune upon his army:-- (1) By commanding the army to advance or to retreat, being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey. This is called hobbling the army. (2) By attempting to govern an army in the same way as he administers a kingdom, being ignorant of the conditions which obtain in an army. This causes restlessness in the soldier's minds. (3) By employing the officers of his army without discrimination, through ignorance of the military principle of adaptation to circumstances. This shakes the confidence of the soldiers." "Thus we may know that there are five essentials for victory: (1) He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight. (2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior and inferior forces. (3) He will win whose army is animated by the same spirit throughout all its ranks. (4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take the enemy unprepared. (5) He will win who has military capacity and is not interfered with by the sovereign." Etc, etc. You get the point, nothing new under the Sun, I guess. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:50:47 AM EDT
[#23]
The U.S. military has not been defeated. American politicians and the American people expecting a force roughly 1/10th the size it was in WWII to conduct a two front war while turning some of the biggest shitholes in the world into glowing beacons of democracy ,yet have no one on either side really get killed, and the whole thing be wrapped up in a few months or years is retarded. That's the fucking problem.....
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:51:02 AM EDT
[#24]
Generals and Admirals cannot achieve their stars without political support.
They become by necessity sycophantic yes men to politicians and provide those politicians not with advise, but instead with affirmation. The politicians wanted a limited conflict with a quick exit while providing for a lasting national transformation for the conquered nations. The Pentagon Brass told the politicians that such a thing was possible under their brilliant plans they had devised. You know what you call good officers who don't kiss political ass nonstop? Retired Colonels. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:54:02 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bar for "victory" is entirely too high in Afghanistan and Iraq. When you start a war with the stated goal of turning third world Islamic shitholes into nothing less than Switzerland with warm weather, you are bound to come up short. This is pretty much my opinion on the matter. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:54:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will. This thread over. So...do you propose no more operations against non-state actors?
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:58:26 AM EDT
[#27]
The USA never fully committed itself militarily to either the conflict in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Even in the wake of 9/11 at NO TIME did the President ask the young men and women of the nation to enlist. At no time was a serious expansion of the number of service members instituted. The highest number of US service members in Iraq never rose above 165,000 and in Afghanistan never higher than around 98,000. That's out of a nation with 320 MILLION people. Although our government brings in 2 to 3 Trillion in tax revenue and borrows even we suffered throughout the conflicts for lack of drones helicopters, air support. Hell, it took years for MRAPs to be deployed in sufficient numbers. You know what I remember Bush telling the American people to do after 9/11? Live our lives and buy shit like DVD players. When he didn't ask for people to enlist and fight and for the nation to dedicate itself to victory I knew exactly how the so called GWOT was going to be prosecuted and that is like a blind man in a fight with one hand tied behind his balls. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:04:28 AM EDT
[#28]
During WWII we had 9% of the US population in uniform.
Today that would translate to 28.8 Million. If we had made that kind of commitment even half assed COIN might have worked. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:10:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Generals and Admirals cannot achieve their stars without political support. They become by necessity sycophantic yes men to politicians and provide those politicians not with advise, but instead with affirmation. The politicians wanted a limited conflict with a quick exit while providing for a lasting national transformation for the conquered nations. The Pentagon Brass told the politicians that such a thing was possible under their brilliant plans they had devised. You know what you call good officers who don't kiss political ass nonstop? Retired Colonels. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:11:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: During WWII we had 9% of the US population in uniform. Today that would translate to 28.8 Million. If we had made that kind of commitment even half assed COIN might have worked. During WWII we had a draft. We had a draft through Viet Nam. Now days, I'll bet at least 30% of 18 year olds don't even register. I'm not advocating a draft, however, come a need for manpower on a truly massive scale...that's one way to achieve it. These days we can't even muster the conviction to prosecute fucking deserters...let alone imprison people for refusing to serve. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:16:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a military guy here but we are fighting a war where the enemy does not wear a uniform and does not fight in a conventional way. The enemies you sighted did. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will. Not a military guy here but we are fighting a war where the enemy does not wear a uniform and does not fight in a conventional way. The enemies you sighted did. That is why we need to wage total war on anyone who aids or supports them as well, yes I mean non-combatants. Until the people giving them moral, financial and material support start getting killed too the combatants are never going to go away. Shouting "Death to America" should carry the same penalty as planning an IED or firing on our troops. Kill.Them.All. Mecca should already be a glazed glass bowl in the desert. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:23:22 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the only reason our military does not get every victory is politicians And being that the politicians are supposed to reflect the will of the people they represent, it is ultimately an indictment of us. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:26:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We are in an era of Strategic buffoonery. I have never seen so few words capture what I consider a teachable moment. It applies to other sectors of government as well - observations from my 38 years of federal government employment. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:29:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Political will is lacking. Winning "hearts and minds" is bullshit. Either you go to war or you don't. We've been chasing the Taliban longer than it took us to crush Germany, Italy, and Japan. No will. This |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:31:39 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And being that the politicians are supposed to reflect the will of the people they represent, it is ultimately an indictment of us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
the only reason our military does not get every victory is politicians And being that the politicians are supposed to reflect the will of the people they represent, it is ultimately an indictment of us. Damn right. American voters never want to take responsibility, but there it is spelled out. You no nothing pisses me off more than hearing civilians with absolutely no connection to the GWOT other than their tax dollars be described as "war fatigued." Like they just got too tired of seeing it on the news or something. 
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:40:36 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
During WWII we had a draft. We had a draft through Viet Nam. Now days, I'll bet at least 30% of 18 year olds don't even register. I'm not advocating a draft, however, come a need for manpower on a truly massive scale...that's one way to achieve it. These days we can't even muster the conviction to prosecute fucking deserters...let alone imprison people for refusing to serve.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
During WWII we had 9% of the US population in uniform. Today that would translate to 28.8 Million. If we had made that kind of commitment even half assed COIN might have worked. Now days, I'll bet at least 30% of 18 year olds don't even register. I'm not advocating a draft, however, come a need for manpower on a truly massive scale...that's one way to achieve it. These days we can't even muster the conviction to prosecute fucking deserters...let alone imprison people for refusing to serve.
The thing that gets me though is that we haven't a President throughout the GWOT simple just ask men and women to serve. Not once. Not one speech to the cameras saying "your nation needs you." If the President did say that I believe there would be a flood of young men and women at the recruitment offices the very next day. Instead Bush told young people to live their lives and buy DVDs. Defeat the terrorists through mindless consumption of material goods. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:47:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have never seen so few words capture what I consider a teachable moment. It applies to other sectors of government as well - observations from my 38 years of federal government employment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We are in an era of Strategic buffoonery. I have never seen so few words capture what I consider a teachable moment. It applies to other sectors of government as well - observations from my 38 years of federal government employment. "Affordable" care act.
38 years? Holy crap. So you have the honor of working for both the Carter administration, and the Obama administration? 
That should be one hell of a pension. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:07:15 AM EDT
[#38]
We didn't need more soldiers on the ground. We didn't need politicians ask us to serve. We needed less restrictive ROE. We needed less lofty goals for our soldiers. We kill people and break shit, I am not a community activist.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:29:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
During WWII we had 9% of the US population in uniform. Today that would translate to 28.8 Million. If we had made that kind of commitment even half assed COIN might have worked. A 28 million man military would be expensive as fuck. You'd need some monster GDP to support that. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 4:20:56 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The thing that gets me though is that we haven't a President throughout the GWOT simple just ask men and women to serve. Not once. Not one speech to the cameras saying "your nation needs you." If the President did say that I believe there would be a flood of young men and women at the recruitment offices the very next day. Instead Bush told young people to live their lives and buy DVDs. Defeat the terrorists through mindless consumption of material goods. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
During WWII we had 9% of the US population in uniform. Today that would translate to 28.8 Million. If we had made that kind of commitment even half assed COIN might have worked. Now days, I'll bet at least 30% of 18 year olds don't even register. I'm not advocating a draft, however, come a need for manpower on a truly massive scale...that's one way to achieve it. These days we can't even muster the conviction to prosecute fucking deserters...let alone imprison people for refusing to serve.
The thing that gets me though is that we haven't a President throughout the GWOT simple just ask men and women to serve. Not once. Not one speech to the cameras saying "your nation needs you." If the President did say that I believe there would be a flood of young men and women at the recruitment offices the very next day. Instead Bush told young people to live their lives and buy DVDs. Defeat the terrorists through mindless consumption of material goods. 
You guys need to go to sleep. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 4:23:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bar for "victory" is entirely too high in Afghanistan and Iraq. When you start a war with the stated goal of turning third world Islamic shitholes into nothing less than Switzerland with warm weather, you are bound to come up short. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 4:45:22 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 28 million man military would be expensive as fuck. You'd need some monster GDP to support that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
During WWII we had 9% of the US population in uniform. Today that would translate to 28.8 Million. If we had made that kind of commitment even half assed COIN might have worked. A 28 million man military would be expensive as fuck. You'd need some monster GDP to support that. We don't need anything even remotely close to 28 million men. But it sure wouldn't hurt if we had a military force about the size of the one we possessed in the 1980s and early 1990s, albeit it with a greater emphasis on infantry than armor. We sure as hell could have used those extra 8 divisions we cut following the Cold War over the past decade or so. Yet an 18 division army is doable from a cost and manpower standpoint. And a draft isn't necessary to fill out a force that size, since we did it once before with an all volunteer force at a time when we had a smaller population. If I were in charge, I would set about the process of rebuilding our army into that type of force once again. A 10 division army is just too damn small to fight a protracted war. I'd be willing to bet there might be far fewer PTSD cases today if we didn't have to keep sending the same handful of guys back into the fight...over and over and over....simply because we didn't have any other option. A larger force gives you the option of spreading the workload around better and reducing the mission tempo to more reasonable levels. And in situations where it is required, such a force gives you the option of overwhelming the enemy with sheer numbers, something we can't do today because we're spread so damn thin. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 4:51:32 AM EDT
[#43]
I have nothing to add. You all nailed it.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 4:53:15 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Lawrence B. Lindsey, was forced to resign for telling The Wall Street Journal that the all-in costs might be as high as $100 billion to $200 billion" That's a bit of a mischaracterization of the resignation, I don't recall a direct connection ever being asserted. Though, it could clearly be implied. Alas, the author states it like it's a widely accepted fact. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 8:36:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's a bit of a mischaracterization of the resignation, I don't recall a direct connection ever being asserted. Though, it could clearly be implied. Alas, the author states it like it's a widely accepted fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Lawrence B. Lindsey, was forced to resign for telling The Wall Street Journal that the all-in costs might be as high as $100 billion to $200 billion" That's a bit of a mischaracterization of the resignation, I don't recall a direct connection ever being asserted. Though, it could clearly be implied. Alas, the author states it like it's a widely accepted fact. Yes. Another "Fallowcy" of the sort for which he is famous. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 9:01:01 AM EDT
[#46]
Fallows is typical of a generation of cowardly baby boomers who would not go to Vietnam, or be bothered serving in the military because they feared physical harm. Instead of simply admitting this failing and moving on they convinced themselves that their war was immoral.
Basically this weakling built a career excusing his own fallings. While he may be right about some things his proscription for the problem is usually a weaker military. As far as the size of the force goes for Iraq and Afghanistan we would need a giant army to execute a bad strategy. The "surge" required fewer soldiers then we had during the first Iraqi election, but succeeded in its tactical goals by using locals, killing lots of people and bribing or threatening the rest. The end result was security with a much smaller footprint. Then we threw the victory away for political reasons. As far as winning and losing, we would have lost Germany if we left in 1946, we would have lost Korea if we left after 54. We might have won in Vietnam if we had not cut off all military aid we had promised the south Vietnamese under a treaty. Basically we keep losing wars because our politicians keep listening to shithead generals like westmorland and franks and punk ass bitches like Fallows. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 9:04:30 AM EDT
[#47]
Read that when it first came out, loved the graphics.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 9:06:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. Another "Fallowcy" of the sort for which he is famous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
"Lawrence B. Lindsey, was forced to resign for telling The Wall Street Journal that the all-in costs might be as high as $100 billion to $200 billion" That's a bit of a mischaracterization of the resignation, I don't recall a direct connection ever being asserted. Though, it could clearly be implied. Alas, the author states it like it's a widely accepted fact. Yes. Another "Fallowcy" of the sort for which he is famous. It's The Atlantic so you automatically have to read it with your Predictable Bias Filter turned on. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 9:07:08 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree that it has been defeated. It wins every engagement it undertakes. The problem is that when you define "victory" as making a bunch of savages into civilized men you set yourself up for failure. Even the Romans took generations to turn places like Gaul and Briton into some semblance of civilization. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 9:12:01 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fallows is only right by mistake. This jackass has been pontificating about the military since the 1980s, at least, and I can't think of a damn thing he's gotten right, yet. The US military has issues, and I'll be the first to agree with that. Those issues are not the ones this idiot is trying to point out--Most of what he's criticizing has more to do with the politicians than the military. If they set impossible goals, like "bring democracy and modernity to Afghanistan and Iraq within less than a decade", of fucking course the mission is going to fail. Every professional soldier I knew, which is not to say every officer and senior NCO in the Army, just those who saw it as a vocation and who studied military science and history, all said that we'd need to stay in Iraq for fifty years, at a minimum. We left long before the project was complete. Of course, ISIS moved in to feast on the remains. The Iraqi government and people needed decades of tutelage and mentoring to get to the point where they could live within a successful federation of ethnic groups. The brilliant geniuses of the Obama administration wanted that obligation to be gone, and we're now where we are. It didn't help that the Obama crew told the Iraqis to deal with all the prisoners at Camp Bucca, and not to massacre them when we turned them over. Nine-tenths of ISIS higher leadership came out of there, so that should tell you how brilliant the Obama foreign policy really is. boom goes the dynamite. thumbs up. |
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