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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:18:12 PM EDT
[#1]
yes
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:19:38 PM EDT
[#2]
I replaced the bones in my support arm with longer bones.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:20:03 PM EDT
[#3]
yes
lighter the better , and I got rid of my old complicated sling for a basic one |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:22:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I replaced the bones in my support arm with longer bones. I respect a man who disregards the half-assed approach to training. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:25:24 PM EDT
[#5]
MIne mirror your experiences almost to a "T".
I ditched the tacticool gear and went much more simplistic. Less to fumble with , and the chances that I would EVER need 6 mags for a rifle (or pistol) are so remote for my lifestyle and area that it was almost comical. 99% of all issues I would ever encounter (in my area) as a LEO or off duty citizen will be handled with a half dozen rounds from whatever platform I happen to have in my hands at the time. Military excepted as they deal with much different scenarios than private citizens and most LEO's Swat guys have all the gear, yet statistically, they fire very few rounds in any violent engagement. They should have the gear because you never know and they are in the lions den when they get called out. For HD, "statistically" you'll only need the mag in the gun and a flashlight. the rest relies on tactics and sound decision making. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:29:43 PM EDT
[#6]
I took my first two day class with a bone-stock 6920 and a borrowed VTAC sling.
I wish I woulda put an IWC 1" light mount on my stock handguards and bought a VCAS sling and stopped right there. All the thousands of dollars I've pissed away on ARs was totally useless. All I need is a 6920 with a sling and a light. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:29:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Sling was killing me. I ran a single point sling and realized that it sucked shooting from off hand positions. Swapped it for a 2 point sling and find it much more usable for me. Also I ditched the vest all together and went with a Sonny rig from Raven Concealment and its much quicker and lighter.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:30:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah, but not in any real dramatic way.
I realized that in my old age standing around with a rifle all day, the rifle gets very heavy. I didn't actually change anything because I don't envision myself standing around all day with a rifle in real life. But it was something to consider. I took a two day carbine class using only my BUIS and I immediately got new BUIS. In one class I took multiple times they did a drill where you went from standing to prone and I realized how important it is to know how to really shoot from positions without things like bipods. The drill is timed; you don't have time for that kind of stuff. You just went from standing to prone, and fired one shot into the target in a few seconds (don't remember how long). I wasn't running all kinds of tactical gear to begin with. I was using a couple of kydex mag pouches on my belt and this worked fine. I did add a drop pouch for empty mags which I normally wouldn't be carrying. But this depends on what kind of class it is. I took classes where you couldn't have enough ammo/mags and I took others that were geared more toward private citizens (not military or LEO senarios) where you engaged one or two targets with a couple rounds to each target. I agree with you that it makes you do a lot of thinking about lights. What seems like a good idea at home, turns out to be unworkable when you are really using it. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:46:25 PM EDT
[#9]
It wasn't a carbine course, it was a 4 month ground combat training in the military.
Took all the mags from my rig in the front and put them on my sides, flopping prone, or laying prone for hours at a time sucks with mags keeping you from breathing. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:50:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I replaced the bones in my support arm with longer bones.  |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 12:54:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MIne mirror your experiences almost to a "T". I ditched the tacticool gear and went much more simplistic. Less to fumble with , and the chances that I would EVER need 6 mags for a rifle (or pistol) are so remote for my lifestyle and area that it was almost comical. 99% of all issues I would ever encounter (in my area) as a LEO or off duty citizen will be handled with a half dozen rounds from whatever platform I happen to have in my hands at the time. Military excepted as they deal with much different scenarios than private citizens and most LEO's Swat guys have all the gear, yet statistically, they fire very few rounds in any violent engagement. They should have the gear because you never know and they are in the lions den when they get called out. For HD, "statistically" you'll only need the mag in the gun and a flashlight. the rest relies on tactics and sound decision making. Citizens are never off duty! 
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:14:51 PM EDT
[#12]
I've never attended a course and not made a major change.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:30:12 PM EDT
[#13]
No
My KISS carbine has ran every class I've taken without a hitch. Gun's not broke and doesn't need fixing. I considered an Omega handguard for roughly a half a second then I came to my senses. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:42:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Assymetric Solutions in Missouri caused me to ditch the standard USGI type web sling for a Magul MMS with ASAP mount.
Also, I realized I needed much better socks than standard tube socks. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:42:34 PM EDT
[#15]
OST
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Posted: 11/15/2014 1:46:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I replaced the bones in my support arm with longer bones. Did you stay with normal bone or did you do the Adamantium upgrade? |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:10:38 PM EDT
[#17]
I took a sniper marksmanship class with a basic Remington 700. I had been putting off taking the class because I hadn't equiped the gun the way I wanted it. Mainly I didn't have a detachable magazine.
After taking the class and winning the timed exercise at the end of the course I realized I really don't need one.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:12:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Yes. And if I could afford it, I'd change more.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:27:56 PM EDT
[#19]
After attending a Carbine Course, I realized that I needed additional support that my muscles and tendons couldn't provide.
I added tape to my arm kit for additional support. It changed my life. I can really see the difference at the 3 yard line, where I make my money. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:29:57 PM EDT
[#20]
First off, your a lucky SOB to go to a CSAT class. Secondly, in nearly every carbine class I've been to, I've learned something about my rifle, my equipment, or my limitations. It's also nice to try out other students sights, lights, and other accessories without actually having to buy them. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:31:02 PM EDT
[#21]
Lessons learned at various courses:
Footwear is important. No support, blisters and wet feet are not conducive to learning. $30 WalMart work boots don't cut it. Webgear pouch placement is important. Need to keep strong hand side basically slick to allow for sidearm. Having quality rifle and ammo is important. You don't want to be THAT GUY with repeated malfunctions and ammo issues. Test your shit ahead of time, zero ahead of time and for gods sake, make sure your rifle likes the ammo you are bringing to class. Good optics *tend* to work, cheap optics *tend* to die. Not a hard & fast rule but generally speaking it holds true. Shooting gloves with thumb/fore finger removed. It's not an attempt to look teir1 ninja. I have very short fingers and the additional fabric always fucks me up. I like the gloves to keep my hands from getting cut up and the removed fingers so I can actually manipulate things. Single point slings suck. Quality two point slings suck slightly less. No sling really really really sucks. Dumped the MS2 sling and went to the VTAC padded for everything. Biggest lesson learned at nearly every class I've taken: while I enjoy gear and am a certified gear queer, ultimately it's focusing on fundamental gun fighting skills that are important. Yes, classes are good to shake out your gear arrangement but it should also be pointing out where you need to hone your actual skillset. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:33:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes Same. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:37:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I replaced the bones in my support arm with longer bones. 
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Posted: 11/15/2014 2:39:26 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... the chances that I would EVER need 6 mags for a rifle (or pistol) are so remote for my lifestyle and area that it was almost comical. You should be banned for that. Don't you know that "13 is One, A Dozen is None"?
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Posted: 11/15/2014 3:13:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Taggage!
Lookinup |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 3:27:33 PM EDT
[#26]
I got the fast hands upgrade to speed my reloads, and added a heartbeat monitor to my rifle so I can shoot bad guys through the walls.
I swapped out my HBAR free float with 2-10x optic for nam-era Surplus Colt Government A1 upper, with barrel chopped to 17.5", bored open the gas port for reliability, and added a co-witness RDS on a cantilever mount. Added a 300 lumen Cree led light, and a 2point sling. Now if only it had a faster than 1:12 twist it would be great!
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Posted: 11/15/2014 3:28:44 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I replaced the bones in my support arm with longer bones. Good thinking. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:05:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lessons learned at various courses: Footwear is important. No support, blisters and wet feet are not conducive to learning. $30 WalMart work boots don't cut it. Webgear pouch placement is important. Need to keep strong hand side basically slick to allow for sidearm. Having quality rifle and ammo is important. You don't want to be THAT GUY with repeated malfunctions and ammo issues. Test your shit ahead of time, zero ahead of time and for gods sake, make sure your rifle likes the ammo you are bringing to class. Good optics *tend* to work, cheap optics *tend* to die. Not a hard & fast rule but generally speaking it holds true. Shooting gloves with thumb/fore finger removed. It's not an attempt to look teir1 ninja. I have very short fingers and the additional fabric always fucks me up. I like the gloves to keep my hands from getting cut up and the removed fingers so I can actually manipulate things. Single point slings suck. Quality two point slings suck slightly less. No sling really really really sucks. Dumped the MS2 sling and went to the VTAC padded for everything. Biggest lesson learned at nearly every class I've taken: while I enjoy gear and am a certified gear queer, ultimately it's focusing on fundamental gun fighting skills that are important. Yes, classes are good to shake out your gear arrangement but it should also be pointing out where you need to hone your actual skillset. Yes...the biggest thing I actually picked up was to focus on fundamental shooting techniques, have strict accuracy and time standards and train to those standards. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:07:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I replaced the bones in my support arm with longer bones. 
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:12:07 PM EDT
[#30]
do some airsoft / force on force if you really want an eye opener
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:14:20 PM EDT
[#31]
I haven't made any changes yet after taking a course, but I do want to get a lighter set of rails and a decent red dot. I'm just broke.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:17:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Not any major changes. But I used a kiss setup before so I didn't have much to change.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:20:58 PM EDT
[#33]
No. My colt 6720 pretty much stayed the same except for a rainier arms raptor.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:36:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Formal training or even three gun matches will often result in a first timer disovering that some things just dont work for them.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:44:39 PM EDT
[#35]
Take your gear to a night time practical rifle course. That will REALLY teach you what works, what is nonsense, what is mall ninja crap, and what you can actually benefit from.
I ended up with a 50,000 candle power (not lumin) Streamlight mounted in rings I modified, and a ACOG TA01 scope, and a Harris bipod. That setup kicked butt. I could easily see and identify which targets to shoot at 100 yards, and could actually see much further than that. Basically, if I could see it, I could hit it. If I can't see a target, I'm not shooting at a noise or something I haven't identified. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:45:58 PM EDT
[#36]
I started using B5 stocks and putting my light at 12:00.
I'm still in the fence about the 12:00 light 
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:54:41 PM EDT
[#37]
I use carbine classes to test and evaluate gear (and learn how to shoot).
The biggest surprise for me was ditching my ACOG for an EOtech on my 6720. The Raven Sony rig is awesome, but a little big for my 29" waist. Best performance for money when multiple mags are required. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:56:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Its amazing how your load out is constantly evolving with the more training you have. When you actually get out and roll around in the mud a little you learn what really works.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 4:58:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can really see the difference at the 3 yard line, where I make my money. I agree, I used to use a magnified optic, but after busting them from the urban prone at the 3, I learned all I needed was a red dot.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:01:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its amazing how your load out is constantly evolving with the more training you have. When you actually get out and roll around in the mud a little you learn what really works. I see this concept in motion all the time with my involvement in Scouting. The first time a kid comes camping, he takes a week to pack and brings everything under the sun. After 5 years of camping once a month, every month, a kid can pack in 5 minutes and only brings what he needs. They quickly learn what the should have left home, and what they should have brought. We are the same in regards to tactical shooting. And the only way to get there is to do it... a lot! |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:05:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree, I used to use a magnified optic, but after busting them from the urban prone at the 3, I learned all I needed was a red dot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can really see the difference at the 3 yard line, where I make my money. I agree, I used to use a magnified optic, but after busting them from the urban prone at the 3, I learned all I needed was a red dot. This is why arfcom posts need a "like" button. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:06:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I started using B5 stocks and putting my light at 12:00. I'm still in the fence about the 12:00 light Where's your front sight mounted? |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:06:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree, I used to use a magnified optic, but after busting them from the urban prone at the 3, I learned all I needed was a red dot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I can really see the difference at the 3 yard line, where I make my money. I agree, I used to use a magnified optic, but after busting them from the urban prone at the 3, I learned all I needed was a red dot. That's very true, but my HD rifles are also used to take long shots at Coyotes when they wander into my property and I really need the 4x to drop them humanely. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:10:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Have taken a few classes over the years. I am setup for day and night. Classes are a great way to test your setup see what others are using. My experience when you add in nighttime capabilities (NV, IR) stuff gets bolted back on.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:12:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Let ask those who have been to classes.
I'm thinking of getting an M-Lok handguard. Is it worth it over the standard Magpul handguard I have right now ? I mean does having the option for easy on and off for add on's like lights, foregrips worth it? |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:24:07 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let ask those who have been to classes. I'm thinking of getting an M-Lok handguard. Is it worth it over the standard Magpul handguard I have right now ? I mean does having the option for easy on and off for add on's like lights, foregrips worth it? |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:48:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a nobody, so take that for what it's worth. Not a believer in any rail that has removable sections. Just a gimmick in my opinion. I use a standard KAC RAS rail, also use Larue index clips, which are great. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Let ask those who have been to classes. I'm thinking of getting an M-Lok handguard. Is it worth it over the standard Magpul handguard I have right now ? I mean does having the option for easy on and off for add on's like lights, foregrips worth it? Pretty much this. I use a quad rail for my defense rifle. It works, QD is quick as shit, and if you need to move stuff, you have plenty of room and it takes almost no time. I dig mlok and keymod, but they are only on my range guns. I think its great for panels and handstops and stuff. But my go-to gun wears a quad rail, and probably always will. I'm not an operator, but I was a light infantry soldier in another life, and that was enough to convince me that it works great and allows for quick, easy, strong changes.
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Posted: 11/15/2014 5:54:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its amazing how your load out is constantly evolving with the more training you have. When you actually get out and roll around in the mud a little you learn what really works. Yeah, when I was in the fetal position shooting under a sedan for the first time, I was like, "Whoa my kit is not set up for this, and I have no idea what the fuck I'm doing!" Changed the way I live. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 6:02:08 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use carbine classes to test and evaluate gear (and learn how to shoot). The biggest surprise for me was ditching my ACOG for an EOtech on my 6720. The Raven Sony rig is awesome, but a little big for my 29" waist. Best performance for money when multiple mags are required. The opposite occurred to me. I am a member of Frontsight and I used to live close to it. I took their carbine class over and over again. I took it a bunch of times with a red dot. Once with irons only. Then I got an ACOG and decided that was the way to go for me. |
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Posted: 11/15/2014 6:10:34 PM EDT
[#50]
I would recommend going beyond just the shooting; go out and use/wear your gear for extended period of time. Take it to the field and hump/patrol some distance because shooting will consume an eye blink amount of time compare to walking around in it.
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